"Proud of the culture we've built" comments drawing ire

[Pig in the Pokey]

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/butch-jones-tennessee-vols-coach-culture-baylor-sexual-assault-title-nine-9-ix-lawsuit-ut-053116  "These are serious allegations —€” serious enough that should they be affirmed, Jones should lose his job."

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/college/story/2016/jun/01/butch-jones-defends-tennessee-amid-baylor-com/368663/   

I cannot fathom how clueless you have to be to utter those words in this current environment, this week of all times!!! What is Butch Jones thinking?!


And, see, I wasn't trippin. EVERYBODY is seeing the similarities and seriousness of this scandal.

[Pig in the Pokey]

http://fansided.com/2016/06/01/10-power-5-head-coaches-hot-seat-2016/4/

When he goes down because of the on the field struggles, maybe then we'll hear the slimevols say how he's dealt with the rape scandal was wrong.

This is hilarious, too. "http://www.knoxnews.com/sports/vols/football/butch-jones-not-in-favor-of-sec-realignment--3415da33-345f-6dc0-e053-0100007fb64f-381454461.html"; 
Yeah, I bet he's not!! #chickenjones

[Pig in the Pokey]

"For Jones to defend the school's culture Tuesday, despite the claims of this pending lawsuit, lacked tact and foresight. That simple statement could haunt him his entire career.The circumstances alleged against Tennessee are frighteningly similar to those at Baylor, where coach Art Briles was dismissed and athletic director Ian McCaw resigned following an independent review of the school's culture and institutional response toward sexual assault."


#truthdontlie

[KlubhouseKonnected]

The world is watching.

[KlubhouseKonnected]

Setting aside University staff and whatever they may or may not have done, heads should be rolling at Knoxville PD. Has there been any coverage concerning that?

[Pig in the Pokey]

Setting aside University staff and whatever they may or may not have done, heads should be rolling at Knoxville PD. Has there been any coverage concerning that?

actually, i totally concur. I have been hard on Butch but at least he did suspend the guys eventually. The Knoxville PD was waaaaaay outta line and they definitely should be getting bashed.

[AugustaHog]

Briles was tweeting similar crap too as recent as a week ago.  If the truth comes out and finds against them, heads will roll.  The media will love that kind of scandal at a more traditional place.  Sharks will be circling and they will can Butch really fast.  He doesn't even have half the resume that Briles did and ol Art was sent packing (should've been earlier than that) as soon as the media applied the slightest pressure.

[26.2Hog]

It appears that Jones, as Mickey Rivers once said about Rickey Henderson, "ain't exactly all broke out with brilliance".

[KlubhouseKonnected]

actually, i totally concur. I have been hard on Butch but at least he did suspend the guys eventually. The Knoxville PD was waaaaaay outta line and they definitely should be getting bashed.

The records showing the calls made between Butch, KPD, and player/suspects are at the very least open to the suggestion of impropriety but KPD should have never put him in that position in the first place.  The actions of certain LEO's in this case are wholly improper and fail to comply with ethical best practices.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

It appears that Jones, as Mickey Rivers once said about Rickey Henderson, "ain't exactly all broke out with brilliance".

I think Henderson could have just as easily said that about Rivers.   

[TUSKtimes]

Setting aside University staff and whatever they may or may not have done, heads should be rolling at Knoxville PD. Has there been any coverage concerning that?

In the spirit of transparency and to alleviate any appearance of conflict of interest the Knoxville police department will no longer send out courtesy calls to the university administration, including butch, regarding any incident with a university student. 

Police chief came under a lot of fire when it was found out that he called butch 4 times on the same day that a rape allegation was made.

[Karma]

Good to know that PitP is still breathing. He hadn't started a Tenn thread in 20 minutes and I was getting worried about him.  Someday when he is rich from VolVille he will have the last laugh.

[Maddhog]

But what would Yogi say.....

Yogi would say "I didn't say those things that I said." 

[MissippHog]

Can it really get any better than the 2 schools that I despise most, Ole Miss and Tennessee, are on their way to a full blown dumpster fire?

[Inhogswetrust]

The world is watching.

Everyone, everywhere as it should.

[ALLVOL]

Can it really get any better than the 2 schools that I despise most, Ole Miss and Tennessee, are on their way to a full blown dumpster fire?

You're going to be so disappointed.

[KlubhouseKonnected]

https://www.seccountry.com/mississippi-state/mississippi-state-drawing-fire-as-it-nears-decision-on-jeffery-simmons-status

Mississippi State's circumstances with Simmons will be even more scrutinized, considering the ongoing situations surrounding domestic violence at Baylor and Tennessee

[Pig in the Pokey]

Good to know that PitP is still breathing. He hadn't started a Tenn thread in 20 minutes and I was getting worried about him.  Someday when he is rich from VolVille he will have the last laugh.

i'd +1 if I could. That may be your finest 'hate-on-pokey post' yet!

I would have just posted this in the other thread but is was locked for no apparent reason. It was on topic, nobody was bashing posters personally, and all forum rules were being followed. Mod didn't even leave the obligatory explanation. I didn't just start another thread because of it, i had found the FOX article and it is very recent, since yesterday, Butch saying something so ignorant that I had to post it.

[SamBuckhart]

Pride in what?

[MissippHog]

You're going to be so disappointed.

Doubt it.  Two sleazeball coaches who are finding it difficult to cover their tracks.  It will catch up with them sooner or later.  Always does.

[ALLVOL]

Doubt it.  Two sleazeball coaches who are finding it difficult to cover their tracks.  It will catch up with them sooner or later.  Always does.

LOL Jones has no tracks to cover. Just because you don't know doesn't make you right. I get it you hate UT. But this will not even come close to turning out how you want it to. You're going to hate this football season.
Also, if Jones is such a horrible person, what does it say that Jones and CBB are very good friends? CBB have poor taste in friends?

[MissippHog]

LOL Jones has no tracks to cover. Just because you don't know doesn't make you right. I get it you hate UT. But this will not even come close to turning out how you want it to. You're going to hate this football season.
Also, if Jones is such a horrible person, what does it say that Jones and CBB are very good friends? CBB have poor taste in friends?

I don't hate UT, I just don't like their fans.  You seem to embody their "spirit."

[ALLVOL]

I don't hate UT, I just don't like their fans.  You seem to embody their "spirit."

If you mean someone who believes in truth over emotion? I wear that badge with honor.

[Birminghog]

It appears that Jones, as Mickey Rivers once said about Rickey Henderson, "ain't exactly all broke out with brilliance".

Or as one kid in our neighborhood said about another kid, many years ago now, "He ain't got no whole lot of sense".

[bondhue]

Well, Baylor finally did the right thing and got an outside review.  I remember thinking how the news reports about the rapes and coverups stunk to the high heavens.  That review lead to the firing of Briles, With NCAA action sure to follow.

After finishing with Baylor the NCAA will have to attend to UT, because the situations are very similar.  I say Butch doesn't make it to the end of the upcoming season.  We'll see.

[HognitiveDissonance]

It appears that Jones, as Mickey Rivers once said about Rickey Henderson, "ain't exactly all broke out with brilliance".

Mickey Rivers, when told teammate Reggie Jackson had an IQ of 160
"Out of what, a thousand?"

[ALLVOL]

Well, Baylor finally did the right thing and got an outside review.  I remember thinking how the news reports about the rapes and coverups stunk to the high heavens.  That review lead to the firing of Briles, With NCAA action sure to follow.

After finishing with Baylor the NCAA will have to attend to UT, because the situations are very similar.  I say Butch doesn't make it to the end of the upcoming season.  We'll see.

You're wrong on multiple levels.

[LZH]

You're wrong on multiple levels.

How could you possibly know any of this?

[ALLVOL]

How could you possibly know any of this?

How would you possibly know different?

[ricepig]

How would you possibly know different?

No one knows all the facts, just their "take" on what is in the media.

[ALLVOL]

No one knows all the facts, just their "take" on what is in the media.

You're right to a degree.

[ricepig]

You're right to a degree.

I'm 100% right as far as anyone posting on this board.

[bigdaddyhawg]

You're going to hate this football season.

May end being you're the one who's going to hate this football season.

Time will tell.

[LZH]

How would you possibly know different?

That is ridiculous - I don't know, nor have I ever claimed to know, a single thing about this entire mess. You posted about "diverting" a dozen times, but yet that's the best answer you can come up with? That has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked you. You are so sure that all is well in Knoxville, or at least you want everyone to believe you are, so let's hear it.

[TUSKtimes]

The "proud culture" shot is poor judgement on butch's part. Briles shot off some tweets that were met with some of the same criticisms. It took 3 seconds for the media to bend jones words to look unsympathetic to the many victims. 

Why would any coach at this juncture suggest that he's proud of a culture that has just seen multiple acts of rape perpetrated against university students by members of his football team?

Briles and Jones have a lot in common. Both seem to be tone deaf.

[ALLVOL]

May end being you're the one who's going to hate this football season.

Time will tell.

I feel very good about the upcoming season and the future of our program.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Who is advising these coaches? Sometimes it's best to shut the hell up.

These are the types of idiots that party all night and sleep with everything in a skirt during a nasty divorce case. Dumb.

[Corkscrew Johnson]

Tennessee should learn a lesson from Baylor.  You can do the right thing, fire Jones, take a little pressure off the situation systematically and in a way you can control.  Or, you can let all that pressure build up and have a Mount St Helens explosion where everyone is engulfed in flames.  But alas, if Vols were smart enough to comprehend that series of events, I guess they wouldn't be Vol fans...they would be Commodores.

[Grizzlyfan]

In the spirit of transparency and to alleviate any appearance of conflict of interest the Knoxville police department will no longer send out courtesy calls to the university administration, including butch, regarding any incident with a university student. 

Police chief came under a lot of fire when it was found out that he called butch 4 times on the same day that a rape allegation was made.

What a brave stand by the Knoxville Police!  What the hell were they doing calling a football coach before they investigated an allegation?

[LZH]

Tennessee should learn a lesson from Baylor.  You can do the right thing, fire Jones, take a little pressure off the situation systematically and in a way you can control.  Or, you can let all that pressure build up and have a Mount St Helens explosion where everyone is engulfed in flames.  But alas, if Vols were smart enough to comprehend that series of events, I guess they wouldn't be Vol fans...they would be Commodores.

If it is in fact as bad as what it seems, that is the only reasonable thing to do. Jones is a good coach, but he is not the only good one out there. Tennessee would have no problem spending the money to attract a top-shelf coach, plus it is a very good job and there are dozens big name coaches who would take it (provided that the mess ends with the departure of the current administration). Cut bait and be done with it before it gets any worse.

[KlubhouseKonnected]

That is ridiculous - I don't know, nor have I ever claimed to know, a single thing about this entire mess. You posted about "diverting" a dozen times, but yet that's the best answer you can come up with? That has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked you. You are so sure that all is well in Knoxville, or at least you want everyone to believe you are, so let's hear it.

Ask him what his "truth" is. He'll just dissemble.

If you mean someone who believes in truth over emotion? I wear that badge with honor.

[PonderinHog]

If it is in fact as bad as what it seems, that is the only reasonable thing to do. Jones is a good coach, but he is not the only good one out there. Tennessee would have no problem spending the money to attract a top-shelf coach, plus it is a very good job and there are dozens big name coaches who would take it (provided that the mess ends with the departure of the current administration). Cut bait and be done with it before it gets any worse.

It's my understanding that Hootie has already turned the job down...

[LZH]

Ask him what his "truth" is. He'll just dissemble.

It seems that he has gone quite silent on the subject for now....maybe it's a way to hang onto his honorable badge.

[TUSKtimes]

What a brave stand by the Knoxville Police!  What the hell were they doing calling a football coach before they investigated an allegation?

4 times in a day was especially hard to explain to the press. So they excommunicated themselves from the head coach. Hard to defend a culture that the Knoxville police department  want no part of.

[LZH]

It's my understanding that Hootie has already turned the job down...

Probably because they told him they weren't interested in moving to the Big12....

[Jackrabbit Hog]

This is by no means intended to be a defense of Baylor, UT, Briles, Jones, or anyone else, though some of you may take it that way.  But I'd be scared to death to be a head coach of a major college football program today.  The fact is, there's probably very little different that goes on today than what went on 40 years ago off the field, but the social climate has changed.  Back then, I don't care if you were Bear Bryant, Frank Broyles, Bill Battle, or whoever - you had relationships in the media and also in the community that protected the players (especially the "star" players).  A few phone calls could be made and nobody thought there was anything wrong with it, particularly since the transgressions of the players were either hidden from the media successfully or buried by the media if discovered.  We as fans were kept in the dark about all this, and I guess we were fine with it because we wanted our best guys on the field every Saturday. 

It's different now.  For one thing, keeping the bad stuff hidden is virtually impossible.  For another, society demands more accountability and punishment for those that are caught doing wrong, especially sexual assaults and similar stuff.  Which brings me to my original point.  No way a coach can have control over what the 100 or so scholarship guys in his program are doing off the field.  There are bad apples on each team, and sometimes in a sterile environment it's hard to know which ones they are.  Baylor has them.  Tennessee has them.  We have them.  We have been very fortunate thus far in the CBB era and I think a big part of that is a sincere effort on CBB's part to bring in the right kind of kids - but you can never bat a thousand in doing that.  Obviously Baylor and Briles didn't give a crap what kind of kid they brought in, and now it's come back to haunt them.  I think they are getting what they deserve because there is clear evidence that Briles and his staff knew what was going on and intentionally turned a deaf ear and a blind eye to it. 

I do think Tennessee's situation is a little different though.  How much different remains to be seen.  But where Briles intentionally did nothing when he knew something was going on, Jones at least can say he did something - immediately suspending the offending players - once he found out something was going on.  If he learned about it from the Knoxville PD before anyone else knew about it, that's shady and a product of that bygone era I started with, but I think it speaks more poorly of the PD than of Jones.  Jones didn't sit on it; he got rid of the guys.  As for the culture he speaks of, he would be far better off keeping his mouth shut as many of the posters have said.  He may be trying to clean up the culture, but he needs to let the future disciplinary record (or lack thereof) speak for itself.  The culture he's trying to clean up has existed at UT (and at Tuscaloosa, and at Fayetteville, and at Waco) for a long, long time, and it doesn't get changed overnight.  But I do think ALLVOL has a point.  There's no evidence at this point that Jones knew bad stuff was going on and did nothing about it.  That alone may distinguish the Vols situation from the Baylor one.

[Theolesnort]

I feel very good about the upcoming season and the future of our program.

ALLVOL,.no matter even if the truth is favorable to Butch, in this political correct environment Butch and Tennessee have a real problem. Just being upfront with you.

[TUSKtimes]

I do think Tennessee's situation is a little different though.  How much different remains to be seen.  But where Briles intentionally did nothing when he knew something was going on, Jones at least can say he did something - immediately suspending the offending players - once he found out something was going on.  If he learned about it from the Knoxville PD before anyone else knew about it, that's shady and a product of that bygone era I started with, but I think it speaks more poorly of the PD than of Jones.  Jones didn't sit on it; he got rid of the guys.  As for the culture he speaks of, he would be far better off keeping his mouth shut as many of the posters have said.  He may be trying to clean up the culture, but he needs to let the future disciplinary record (or lack thereof) speak for itself.  The culture he's trying to clean up has existed at UT (and at Tuscaloosa, and at Fayetteville, and at Waco) for a long, long time, and it doesn't get changed overnight.  But I do think ALLVOL has a point.  There's no evidence at this point that Jones knew bad stuff was going on and did nothing about it.  That alone may distinguish the Vols situation from the Baylor one.

I'm sure you were going for more of an overview than a single point. I do think it's a losing battle when kids bring past cultures into the football complex and I personally wouldn't want any part of it as head coach.

But, Tennessee went proactive on this story long ago. All the head coaches decided to put their feeling about the Tennessee culture out there in the public domain for everyone's inspection on national TV. The next thing you hear is Drae Bowles coming to the aid of a rape victim, multiple football players assaulting him and a head coach screaming "traitor".

I'm all about patience and waiting on due process. But butch and his fellow head coaches have already started without us.

[a0ashle]

This is by no means intended to be a defense of Baylor, UT, Briles, Jones, or anyone else, though some of you may take it that way.  But I'd be scared to death to be a head coach of a major college football program today.  The fact is, there's probably very little different that goes on today than what went on 40 years ago off the field, but the social climate has changed.  Back then, I don't care if you were Bear Bryant, Frank Broyles, Bill Battle, or whoever - you had relationships in the media and also in the community that protected the players (especially the "star" players).  A few phone calls could be made and nobody thought there was anything wrong with it, particularly since the transgressions of the players were either hidden from the media successfully or buried by the media if discovered.  We as fans were kept in the dark about all this, and I guess we were fine with it because we wanted our best guys on the field every Saturday. 

It's different now.  For one thing, keeping the bad stuff hidden is virtually impossible.  For another, society demands more accountability and punishment for those that are caught doing wrong, especially sexual assaults and similar stuff.  Which brings me to my original point.  No way a coach can have control over what the 100 or so scholarship guys in his program are doing off the field.  There are bad apples on each team, and sometimes in a sterile environment it's hard to know which ones they are.  Baylor has them.  Tennessee has them.  We have them.  We have been very fortunate thus far in the CBB era and I think a big part of that is a sincere effort on CBB's part to bring in the right kind of kids - but you can never bat a thousand in doing that.  Obviously Baylor and Briles didn't give a crap what kind of kid they brought in, and now it's come back to haunt them.  I think they are getting what they deserve because there is clear evidence that Briles and his staff knew what was going on and intentionally turned a deaf ear and a blind eye to it. 

I do think Tennessee's situation is a little different though.  How much different remains to be seen.  But where Briles intentionally did nothing when he knew something was going on, Jones at least can say he did something - immediately suspending the offending players - once he found out something was going on.  If he learned about it from the Knoxville PD before anyone else knew about it, that's shady and a product of that bygone era I started with, but I think it speaks more poorly of the PD than of Jones.  Jones didn't sit on it; he got rid of the guys. As for the culture he speaks of, he would be far better off keeping his mouth shut as many of the posters have said.  He may be trying to clean up the culture, but he needs to let the future disciplinary record (or lack thereof) speak for itself.  The culture he's trying to clean up has existed at UT (and at Tuscaloosa, and at Fayetteville, and at Waco) for a long, long time, and it doesn't get changed overnight.  But I do think ALLVOL has a point.  There's no evidence at this point that Jones knew bad stuff was going on and did nothing about it.  That alone may distinguish the Vols situation from the Baylor one.

He didn't sit on it? I will admit I am not familiar with the timelines, but did he let them go when it went public, or when he was told about it by the KPD? There is a difference there.

Also the part where he calls a player a traitor for helping the rape victim is by far the most telling... that's not just losing control of a few players, that is actively promoting this culture of protecting the team at all costs.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

I'm sure you were going for more of an overview than a single point. I do think it's a losing battle when kids bring past cultures into the football complex and I personally wouldn't want any part of it as head coach.

But, Tennessee went proactive on this story long ago. All the head coaches decided to put their feeling about the Tennessee culture out there in the public domain for everyone's inspection on national TV. The next thing you hear is Drae Bowles coming to the aid of a rape victim, multiple football players assaulting him and a head coach screaming "traitor".

I'm all about patience and waiting on due process. But butch and his fellow head coaches have already started without us.

Two points.  First, I'm fairly certain the Bowles comments about being assaulted, being called a traitor by Jones, etc., all hit the media before the UT coaches held their infamous group press conference.  In fact, I think the disclosures about Bowles' allegations were the catalyst for deciding to have such a presser.

Second, I think Jones' transgressions at this point are overreaction and righteous indignation.  He's broadcasting, "How dare you accuse us because we're spotless!", when everybody knows they're not.  He'd be much better off acknowledging that there have been problems with the culture and then stressing the efforts his staff has taken to make it better.  But his pride won't let him do that.  He's being overly defensive and that is just making things worse.