Ranking the coaches, CBB #24

[thirrdegreetusker]

34 Wins 17 Conference games 2 Bowls and a BCS birth in 4 years. Let's not forget the cupboard was bare when he arrived as well. Like him or not let's not pretend like the man can't design a high caliber football team.

BP got bare cupboard?

Now, I will say that I have a 2010 press guide right here, right now, and the SRs, Sr-with-a-redshirt, and the JRs-with-a-redshirt really do not look too shabby. Seems like a lot of those names played a lot on that Sugar Bowl team.

Bequette
DJ Williams
R Broadway
F Burton
Cleveland
R Crim
Dominguez
J Franklin
G Freeman
W Grayson
A Leon
D Love
Madison
Oxner
Salters
Stumon
Tejada

According to the final stats found in the 2011 press guide, the HDN recruits on the BCS team were:
•   Six of the top 13 tacklers, including three of the top 5
•   Top 2 TEs
•   3 of 5 starting OLS
•   Top FB
•   Top 2 DEs
•   2 of 3 starting LBs
•   2 of top 4 safeties
Not sexy at the skill positions, but lots of the "dirty work" positions that are critical to success.

[thirrdegreetusker]

He created a high calibre offense that depended upon out scoring the opponent. His defenses were in no way high calibre. Heck Nutt had better defenses than CBP. Now I would take CBP over Nutt any day, but let's not forget nor pretend we fielded good defenses under CBP. He made us proud and deserves credit for the wins. He just couldn't field a defense while he as here.

BP was darn lucky here. He got folks saying "top 3 coach", even though:

NO SECCG appearances
No wins against top 5 team
No wins v Alabama
No wins v Florida
No wins v Texas
No wins v mighty Kentucky
 

Even that goofy sob he replaced had multiple SECCG appearances, and multiple wins v top 5.

[Wants2Win]

BP was darn lucky here. He got folks saying "top 3 coach", even though:

NO SECCG appearances
No wins against top 5 team
No wins v Alabama
No wins v Florida
No wins v Texas
No wins v mighty Kentucky
 

Even that goofy sob he replaced had multiple SECCG appearances, and multiple wins v top 5.

As razorback fans, we were the lucky ones.

[KY Hog Man]

I may be the only one, but do those kind of "lists" irritate anyone else?  I don't really care to read thru all their crap and I don't like clicking an arrow over and over - just show the list.  Wait, there is no list.

You're not the only one!

[HogFanatic]

Bob Stoops and Mark Richt are both ranked too high.

Richt is under rated if anything. He is the second best coach in the SEC in my opinion. The man averages just a shade under 10 wins per year. And he has done that for 14 freakin' years.

I will NEVER understand Georgia fans. They clamor for his head as soon as they lose their first game of the year, but he ALWAYS pulls out 10 wins.

[HiggiePiggy]

Richt is under rated if anything. He is the second best coach in the SEC in my opinion. The man averages just a shade under 10 wins per year. And he has done that for 14 freakin' years.

I will NEVER understand Georgia fans. They clamor for his head as soon as they lose their first game of the year, but he ALWAYS pulls out 10 wins.

Richt is way over rated.   He is probably the second best coach in the East division, but he is far from second best in the sec.  The guy underachieves almost every year.  He consistently gets top 5 to 10 classes and continues to have average seasons every other year. 

He sits in one of the top places in the nation as far as recruiting goes.  Almost 90% of his classes are from Georgia.  He will never play in a national championship game. I also bet that he loses 4 games this year with his very weak schedule. 

[HogFanatic]

Richt is way over rated.   He is probably the second best coach in the East division, but he is far from second best in the sec.  The guy underachieves almost every year.  He consistently gets top 5 to 10 classes and continues to have average seasons every other year. 

He sits in one of the top places in the nation as far as recruiting goes.  Almost 90% of his classes are from Georgia.  He will never play in a national championship game. I also bet that he loses 4 games this year with his very weak schedule.

I couldn't possibly disagree more. I think Georgia is the only team with a chance of beating Alabama for the SEC championship this year.

[DLUXHOG]

Respect.
Arkansas was a respected program when Petrino was here there's no denying that. That's the place I hope Beliema can get us back to. That 2 year run by Petrino was the most exciting 2 years of Arkansas football in a very, very long time.

It'll come again... Hide and wait....

[HiggiePiggy]

I couldn't possibly disagree more. I think Georgia is the only team with a chance of beating Alabama for the SEC championship this year.

So what kind of bet can we make.  I bet they don't get to the sec championship game.

[Inhogswetrust]

Richt is under rated if anything. He is the second best coach in the SEC in my opinion. The man averages just a shade under 10 wins per year. And he has done that for 14 freakin' years.

I will NEVER understand Georgia fans. They clamor for his head as soon as they lose their first game of the year, but he ALWAYS pulls out 10 wins.

Maybe I was a little harsh on Mark. However with the talent he has year in and year out people have to at least start to wonder why he hasn't won an or at least played for a NC or two.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

Richt just had bad luck when he won his SECCG. Remember, Saban has won 4 national championships but only one of those teams was undefeated. Richt won the SEC with one loss in 2002 but was unlucky because ohio state and Miami went undefeated and thus went to the BCSNCG instead of Georgia. Les Miles had 2 losses and went to the NCG one year, Meyer had 1 loss in each of his NCG trips, and Gus had one loss last year. That's just the breaks...just because he got unlucky one year doesn't necessarily reflect on his coaching ability.

[HiggiePiggy]

And that still equals him never seeing a national championship game as a head coach. 

The year he had 1 loss.  It was to a mediocre Ron Zook Florida team. 

[Peter Porker]

Sometimes, it helps to know what you're talking about.
win the conference outright" really isn't a valid criticism at all.



I don't understand the criticism of CBB's time in the Big Ten on this board. You would think that hog fans would research all they could about CBB's time in the Big Ten, but instead they just go off of what other people have told them (that he didn't deserve any of his conference titles) because they don't like the coach for whatever reason. It gets really old.

And "slightly above average coach" in the Big Ten is a term that has no real meaning. What does that even mean? In 2010, CBB's Wisconsin team beat the living hell out of the same Ohio State team that beat us in the Sugar Bowl. Arkansas fans, out of all the fans on the planet, have no room to talk about how bad the Big Ten is. We're 1-5 against Big Ten schools and that one win came against Northwestern in 1981 when they went 0-11.

CBB was a very successful coach in the Big Ten. And he was successful on the field while consistently getting out-recruited by most of the teams in his conference. I just really wish that hog fans could do some actual research. It would be so nice.

Those same posters that discredit CBB's record in rhe Big 10 are the same ones trumpeting Booby's record at Louisville.

[HiggiePiggy]

Those same posters that discredit CBB's record in rhe Big 10 are the same ones trumpeting Booby's record at Louisville.

Actually they are probably trumpeting the success that he had here.  Don't care about what he did at Louisville and don't care about what Beliema did at wisconsin.  BP finished out 10-3 and 11-2.  Right now all we have is 3-9 with Beliema.

[Peter Porker]

Actually they are probably trumpeting the success that he had here.  Don't care about what he did at Louisville and don't care about what Beliema did at wisconsin.  BP finished out 10-3 and 11-2.  Right now all we have is 3-9 with Beliema.

No. They trumpet his record at Louisville and his BCS win over Wake Forest. They forget to mention the Wake Forest part though.

[HiggiePiggy]

No. They trumpet his record at Louisville and his BCS win over Wake Forest. They forget to mention the Wake Forest part though.

It's still a BCS win.  What BCS did Beliema win?   To me it's about how he did here. 11-2 his last year is what I remember CBP for.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

It's still a BCS win.  What BCS did Beliema win?   To me it's about how he did here. 11-2 his last year is what I remember CBP for.

It's not the same.

Petrino got a BCS "win" but he played a #15 Wake Forest team.

Bielema had two BCS losses. One was to an undefeated #3 TCU team. The other was to a #5 Oregon team that had just been to the NCG. There's no comparison. If Bielema's Wisconsin team had played #15 Wake Forest instead of those two teams they would have smeared them.

I mean hell Bob Stoops won a BCS game against an unranked UConn team. Just because someone "won a BCS" game doesn't automatically make them awesome.

[nextlevel]

It's not the same.

Petrino got a BCS "win" but he played a #15 Wake Forest team.

Bielema had to BCS losses. One was to an undefeated #3 TCU team. The other was to a #5 Oregon team that had just been to the NCG. There's no comparison. If Bielema's Wisconsin team had played #15 Wake Forest instead of those two teams they would have smeared them.

I mean hell Bob Stoops won a BCS game against an unranked UConn team. Just because someone "won a BCS" game doesn't automatically make them awesome.

Yeah, but how many times has Bobby beaten Ohio State?

[HiggiePiggy]

Ok so now it isn't the same?   Well it's still a BCS win and Beliema lost to a mid major in one of his 2 losses.

[nextlevel]

Ok so now it isn't the same?   Well it's still a BCS win and Beliema lost to a mid major in one of his 2 losses.

And Petrino tanked the program via his recruiting, or lack there of.

Wisconsin losing to TCU effects me none, Petrino recruiting on a less than Nutt level effects every Arkansas fan greatly.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

Ok so now it isn't the same?   Well it's still a BCS win and Beliema lost to a mid major in one of his 2 losses.

Congratulations, you have missed the point. Here's a partial list of coaches that have won a BCS Bowl:
George O'Leary
Dana Holgorsen
Kirk Ferentz
Kyle Whittingham
Rich Rodriguez
Are you prepared to say that all of those coaches are better than Bielema because they won a BCS bowl? Hell, Gene Chizik won a NCG, you think he's a better coach that Bielema? The point if that had Bielema played a #15 team that didn't deserve to be there instead of top 5 teams he would have "won a BCS bowl." It doesn't mean anything unless you beat good competition.

And yeah, 11-2 is what you remember CBP for. That was in his fourth year. You're bitching about Bielema's first year. Under your logic, Houston Nutt was a better coach than Bobby in 2008 because he did things at Arkansas that Bobby never did.

[HiggiePiggy]

No the point is you want to bash on Petrino.  Get OVER IT.  Stop making posts about him.  This site has turned to crap because people want to make threads every day just so they can argue with each other.  Who cares about what they did else where.  What matters is what they do here.  Right now Beliema hasn't done crap here.  Petrino did do something here that no other coach could since joining the sec here. 


Arkansas is what matters.  Not wisconsin not Louisville.  You want to start bringing up what Beliema did in the big 10 then I'll bring up what BP did else where including here.  Our first and only BCS apperance.  What did Beliema do.  Our first ever 0-8 in the sec. With 9 losses in a row. 
 

[Jek Tono Porkins]

No the point is you want to bash on Petrino.  Get OVER IT.  Stop making posts about him.

I don't make posts about Petrino. You were the one that brought him up.

This site has turned to crap because people want to make threads every day just so they can argue with each other.  Who cares about what they did else where.  What matters is what they do here.  Right now Beliema hasn't done crap here.  Petrino did do something here that no other coach could since joining the sec here.

Congratulations, you have again missed the point. Bielema hasn't done crap here, you're correct. At this point in his Arkansas career, Petrino also hadn't done crap.

Arkansas is what matters.  Not wisconsin not Louisville.  You want to start bringing up what Beliema did in the big 10 then I'll bring up what BP did else where including here.  Our first and only BCS apperance.  What did Beliema do.  Our first ever 0-8 in the sec. With 9 losses in a row. 

IN HIS FIRST SEASON, which is in no way indicative of what he will end up accomplishing here, just as Petrino's first season was in no way indicative of what he ended up accomplishing here. You are refusing to acknowledge that fact. Grow up and use some logic for once.

[HiggiePiggy]

Grow up?  I throw out facts all the damn time here and people want to ignore that so go screw yourself.   Mods seem to enjoy arguing since these threads continue to stay. 

[Peter Porker]

The loyalty to a man that thought he was bigger than (and took a crap on) our program is mind boggling.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

Grow up?  I throw out facts all the damn time here and people want to ignore that so go screw yourself.   Mods seem to enjoy arguing since these threads continue to stay.

You're being emotional. Go change your tampon and come back when you develop some critical thinking skills.

[rude1]

Putting Pat Fitzgerald above Bielema is kind of retarded.

Also, "winning a BCS game" is overrated. You really have to look at the entire body of work. Bret Bielema took three teams to the Rose Bowl and in the two that he coached, BARELY lost to top 5 teams all while never getting above 40th in recruiting rankings.

To me, that's a lot more impressive than some of these coaches that are killing it in recruiting while barely beating a team that doesn't deserve to be in a BCS bowl...but "they won a BCS bowl." I'm looking at you, Brady Hoke.

Who knows? Maybe Bielema will never get to a higher level bowl game again because he faces much tougher competition in the SEC than he did in the Big Ten. Maybe he can use the same philosophy at Arkansas that he did at Wisconsin and finally get over the hump because he has better access to high-level recruits.

Either way, it's too early to tell. Revisit this list in a couple of years and we'll have a better idea of how he stacks up to the rest of the coaches.

My problem with this argument is that many will turn around and tell us how many players CBB put in the NFL, so recruiting rankings aside, he had more NFL talent in those bowl games that the teams he lost to. You can't on one hand applaud him for doing more with less, then turn around and congratulate him for having more.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

My problem with this argument is that many will turn around and tell us how many players CBB put in the NFL, so recruiting rankings aside, he had more NFL talent in those bowl games that the teams he lost to. You can't on one hand applaud him for doing more with less, then turn around and congratulate him for having more.

If the argument is "He put too many players in the NFL", I rest my case.

[Ramtough]

BP only ranked 3 places higher than Bielema. What a slap is the face to BP.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Sometimes, it helps to know what you're talking about.

Couldn't win the Big 10 outright? In 2010, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Michigan State all lost one game and therefore were all conference co-champions because at the time there was no Big Ten championship game. That's not that uncommon in conferences without championship games. It happened in 2008 with Ohio State and Penn State. It happened in 2004 with Ohio State and Iowa. It happened in the Big XII with Kansas State and Oklahoma in 2012. It used to happen in the Pac-10 all the time. IIRC most of Pete Carroll's Pac-10 titles were co-titles. So "he didn't win the conference outright" really isn't a valid criticism at all.

And in all the times that Ohio State did win the Big Ten "outright", they still dropped a conference game. If the SEC only had 11 teams there would no be no conference divisions and no SECCG and then you could say things like

"Gus sucks, he never won the conference outright"
"Saban sucks, he only won the conference outright once"
"Miles sucks, he only won the conference outright once"
"Meyer sucks, he never won the conference outright"

In 2011, Wisconsin went to the Big Ten Championship game as the fair-and-square representative of the Big Ten Leaders Division. Ohio State was 3-5 in the conference and Penn St had the same conference record at Wisconsin, but Wisconsin beat them so they won the tiebreaker and went to the Big Ten Championship game fair and square. Then they beat Michigan State so they won the conference. It's a fair and square title.

It's a common misconception on this board that Wisconsin didn't deserve to go to the Big Ten Championship game in 2011, as if Ohio State and Penn State were better. It's simply not true. Yes, Ohio State had just fired Tressel and JoePA had been fired in the middle of the season, but they weren't on probation or anything. Wisconsin had a better conference record than Ohio State and won the conference tiebreaker with Penn ST by beating them. Then they beat a Michigan ST team in the championship game. Wisconsin won that title fair and square.

2012 is the only title where you can say, "OK, Wisconsin didn't really deserve it." They were third in their conference division and went to the Big Ten Championship game as the representative of the Leaders division because at that time Ohio ST and Penn ST were on probation.
BUT
Wisconsin still had to beat Nebraska in the Championship game and beat them they did...to the tune of 70-31.

I don't understand the criticism of CBB's time in the Big Ten on this board. You would think that hog fans would research all they could about CBB's time in the Big Ten, but instead they just go off of what other people have told them (that he didn't deserve any of his conference titles) because they don't like the coach for whatever reason. It gets really old.

And "slightly above average coach" in the Big Ten is a term that has no real meaning. What does that even mean? In 2010, CBB's Wisconsin team beat the living hell out of the same Ohio State team that beat us in the Sugar Bowl. Arkansas fans, out of all the fans on the planet, have no room to talk about how bad the Big Ten is. We're 1-5 against Big Ten schools and that one win came against Northwestern in 1981 when they went 0-11.

CBB was a very successful coach in the Big Ten. And he was successful on the field while consistently getting out-recruited by most of the teams in his conference. I just really wish that hog fans could do some actual research. It would be so nice.

I'd buy you a beer if I could for making so much sense that the mainframe will probably crash. +1

[The_Bionic_Pig]

CBB & BP's resume suggest they should be ranked higher but are being judged by last season's records instead of body of work.