A walk down memory lane of recruiting

[JIHawg]

Frank could sign as many as he wanted, and his bread and butter play was Arkansas high school quarterbacks, taking them and turning them into something.  They often were the best athletes on their team.  He supplemented with also rans from Texas (after the Longhorns took theirs).

Lou hated recruiting and it finally cost him his job.

Kenny made a living on quarterbacks and running backs that could run the option.  He recruited run-blocker linemen.  Receivers need not apply.   He took his last year off on recruiting, knowing he was going somewhere, whoever called first.  He didn't even visit Clemson, accepted the job by phone.

Ford finally put a couple of decent recruiting classes together, headlined by Stoerner/Lucas.  He handed that off to Nutt.

Nutt made Chris Vaughn, the youngest assistant on staff, recruiting coordinator.  Chris had no experience or ability as a coordinator.  His recruiting staff meetings were like Chinese fire drills.  The other assistants blew him off, recruited who they wanted to, and went directly to Nutt, wes did not back Chris.  Reggie Herring, defensive coordinator, let it be known that he didn't recruit, and he didn't. 

Nutt's assistants did not want to go against the "big boys" for recruits.  The would rather go against a Middle Tennessee State or Texas directional.  Those were battles that were easy to win, no worries about rejection.  Nutt and crew seldom swung for the fences.  They got lucky due to some good players home grown in Arkansas during their tenure.

Nutt's last class, 2007, had 4 four-stars, 17 three-stars, and 6 two-stars.  The average was 2.93.

Petrino got lucky twice-one, when Tim Horton held together a fairly good class in spite of Nutt doing everything he could to sway them to Ole Miss.  Two, Ryan Mallet fell in his lap.  His recruiting emphasized offense.  Horton and Allen advocated, and argued for Arkansas kids.  They pointed out the better facilities, weight training, etc. other state's kids had, that the upside potential of Arkansas kids was  greater.  Petrino was not swayed by their arguments.   The motorcycle got him, but the possee was forming, his lack of recruiting defense was about to catch up with him.

Then along comes Bielema.  Suddenly, recruiting seems organized.  There is a plan in place.  Assistant coaches need to have recruiting on their resumes.   The head coach gets his hands dirty, 20,000 miles dirty.  Extra staff, trying to emulate Alabama, were hired.  Technology was employed.  The academic side was shored up, and made a part of recruiting. And this is big, this staff swings for the fences. They are not afraid to go against the "big boys".

The point in all this is, we may not have gone yard the last five recruits, but the rest of the class is fine and after watching our recruiting for fifty years, I am ecstatic about the future.  Bielema knows what he is doing.

[HogShat]

Wow... Great post!  :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

[HogFoo]

Good post. Id have to agree.  Im excited about the future.  I like that Bielema is going after the talent and doesnt care who else is.  I like that they are able to evaluate a player and offer before the rest of the pack starts offering the "diamond  in the roughs" that we evaluated first.   I like that Bielema looks for the best possible recruiter/coach that he can find to fill the vacancies.  He knows what he is doing, building the trenches into monsters and working from there to every other position.  He's doing it right.  Just wait until the wins start coming, and they will, what kind of recruiting classes we will get.   Everyone just needs to have patience.   Good times are coming for hog fans.

[LAHOG1962]

Good one, DROP THE MIC

[supersaint]

Stoerner and Lucas weren't in the same recruiting class, fwiw.

[Snizzzo]

Spot on.  Nice post! 

[IronHog]

Average recruiting that can actually feed the studs is better than good not great recruiting that gets little things wrong on game day.....

[Country Stylz]

The posse was forming against Petrino as lil ol Arkansas finishes 11-2 and ranked 5th his final year. Posse was forming you guys.

[Deep Shoat]

And right on cue, the Bobby Buddies!!!

[Deep Shoat]

Hey, hey, you know what? 


























21-5

[STLhawg]

The posse was forming against Petrino as lil ol Arkansas finishes 11-2 and ranked 5th his final year. Posse was forming you guys.

I agree that statement is a hyperbole, but I know a lot of people who were genuinely concerned about how lackluster recruiting was after winning 10 then 11 games.  That said, based on the fact he'd just won 21 games the past two season, he wasn't going anywhere for at least 2-3 more season -- even if they were 6 or 7 win seasons.  The fact BP couldn't raise the recruiting bar after two 10+ win seasons had me worried how bad recruiting would get after falling back down to 7 or 8 (or worse) win seasons.

[Oklahawg]

Glad the OP could provide you guys a chance to hop back on Bobby's harley for a spin around the "what if" bowl.

Two more years. I want to see CBB have two more years to build depth and show what he can do. This website should be a lot different then...oh, hell, it won't because the pissants will simply delete their account and start over talking about how they always believed in CBB.

[JIHawg]

I agree that statement is a hyperbole, but I know a lot of people who were genuinely concerned about how lackluster recruiting was after winning 10 then 11 games.  That said, based on the fact he'd just won 21 games the past two season, he wasn't going anywhere for at least 2-3 more season -- even if they were 6 or 7 win seasons.  The fact BP couldn't raise the recruiting bar after two 10+ win seasons had me worried how bad recruiting would get after falling back down to 7 or 8 (or worse) win seasons.

Well stated, and the posse analogy is too strong.  As you point out, recruiting under Petrino was definitely not upwardly trending.  His classes were ranked in the 35-40 range, even after the Cotton Bowl victory and #5 ranking.   It's still that way for him-at Louisville. 

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Well stated, and the posse analogy is too strong.  As you point out, recruiting under Petrino was definitely not upwardly trending.  His classes were ranked in the 35-40 range, even after the Cotton Bowl victory and #5 ranking.   It's still that way for him-at Louisville.

I remember very well all the posters who were so giddy about the Sugar Bowl invite, as much for the "recruiting bump" we would get as anything else.  Didn't happen.  Then the next year we win the Cotton Bowl and there's all this talk about the recruiting bump again.  Didn't happen. 

[DeltaBoy]

Great post and a solid summary of Razorback Recruiting in my Lifetime.

[Snizzzo]

Well stated, and the posse analogy is too strong.  As you point out, recruiting under Petrino was definitely not upwardly trending.  His classes were ranked in the 35-40 range, even after the Cotton Bowl victory and #5 ranking.   It's still that way for him-at Louisville.

Anyone with an IQ over 80 can go back now and look at his recruiting classes that weren't filled with instate kids wanting to be hogs no matter the coach.  They were bad.  Real bad.  Not only did a LARGE number of those player wash, he didn't adequately address needs. 

I like this current class on paper, but I guess that makes me a homer....

[Vantage 8 dude]

Anyone with an IQ over 80 can go back now and look at his recruiting classes that weren't filled with instate kids wanting to be hogs no matter the coach.  They were bad.  Real bad.  Not only did a LARGE number of those player wash, he didn't adequately address needs. 

I like this current class on paper, but I guess that makes me a homer....

Good observation about being a "homer". Of course it does!!! Any attempt to actually put a positive light on CBB's recruiting efforts are deemed by some to be nothing but "blowing happy smoke".

[dowils]

Thank you for the reminder. I thought you were spot on, even if Stoerner and Lucas were in different classes...Good Job..

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Good observation about being a "homer". Of course it does!!! Any attempt to actually put a positive light on CBB's recruiting efforts are deemed by some to be nothing but "blowing happy smoke".

You mean like this?

[Mike_e]

Good OP.

Back in Ford's second or third year (I've killed off a lot of brain cells since then) I had a chance to sit down with Pepper Rodgers and I asked him about what could be expected of Danny.  Pepper said then that if Danny could get enough time to fill his team with the kind of recruits that he was getting then we'd be in the hunt almost every year.  He said just look at the lines and that will tell you all you need to know.

Fast Forward to now and it's like dejavous all over again.  Excepting that CBB is winning more- although it may be that Danny had further to go both in getting the talent to compete and build the culture from the sub-basement up.

One thing that we as fans forget is that when we are watching those 'stars' run or pass the ball it's those blue collar guys that brought their lunches and are putting in the work to make the show happen.  Yes maybe a star could give you a mile but most of the time all you need is a few extra inches that hard work and teamwork will get you.

Maybe we don't get the warm fuzzy glow that basking in the light thrown off a super star gives nor the bump in an otherwise weak ego from this workman like approach but I say that this is the way to go.

We are Arkansans, we have always had to work harder and longer.  But we always seem to get to the top eventually.  One tusk, one hoof at a time.

[bphi11ips]

Good OP.

I was critical of BP's recruiting when he was winning and was flamed for it.  The criticism was not directed at rankings as much as the makeup of each class.  Bret Bielema inherited a senior class rated 49 by Rivals in 2010 and built for a Petrino offense.  An astonishing 40% of the class were categorized as either ATH (7!) or WR (3):

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2010

No one knows how Petrino would have fared at Arkansas in 2012 and beyond.  It's fair to say better than Smiley and probably better than Bielema in 2013.  But I think it's also fair to say that Petrino was taking Arkansas in the direction of a mid-major and that we would not have been nearly as competitive with him as we were last year with the big boys.  Bret Bielema has the mindset of a big-time football coach, and he manages his roster accordingly.  That necessarily spills over into recruiting. 

All I've seen for three years is progress in all phases and believe that progress will continue. 

[scruf]

Average recruiting that can actually feed the studs is better than good not great recruiting that gets little things wrong on game day.....

Exactly. CBB did a really good job feeding AC, HH and DM this year. You are spot on.

[jkstock04]

Frank could sign as many as he wanted, and his bread and butter play was Arkansas high school quarterbacks, taking them and turning them into something.  They often were the best athletes on their team.  He supplemented with also rans from Texas (after the Longhorns took theirs).

Lou hated recruiting and it finally cost him his job.

Kenny made a living on quarterbacks and running backs that could run the option.  He recruited run-blocker linemen.  Receivers need not apply.   He took his last year off on recruiting, knowing he was going somewhere, whoever called first.  He didn't even visit Clemson, accepted the job by phone.

Ford finally put a couple of decent recruiting classes together, headlined by Stoerner/Lucas.  He handed that off to Nutt.

Nutt made Chris Vaughn, the youngest assistant on staff, recruiting coordinator.  Chris had no experience or ability as a coordinator.  His recruiting staff meetings were like Chinese fire drills.  The other assistants blew him off, recruited who they wanted to, and went directly to Nutt, wes did not back Chris.  Reggie Herring, defensive coordinator, let it be known that he didn't recruit, and he didn't. 

Nutt's assistants did not want to go against the "big boys" for recruits.  The would rather go against a Middle Tennessee State or Texas directional.  Those were battles that were easy to win, no worries about rejection.  Nutt and crew seldom swung for the fences.  They got lucky due to some good players home grown in Arkansas during their tenure.

Nutt's last class, 2007, had 4 four-stars, 17 three-stars, and 6 two-stars.  The average was 2.93.

Petrino got lucky twice-one, when Tim Horton held together a fairly good class in spite of Nutt doing everything he could to sway them to Ole Miss.  Two, Ryan Mallet fell in his lap.  His recruiting emphasized offense.  Horton and Allen advocated, and argued for Arkansas kids.  They pointed out the better facilities, weight training, etc. other state's kids had, that the upside potential of Arkansas kids was  greater.  Petrino was not swayed by their arguments.   The motorcycle got him, but the possee was forming, his lack of recruiting defense was about to catch up with him.

Then along comes Bielema.  Suddenly, recruiting seems organized.  There is a plan in place.  Assistant coaches need to have recruiting on their resumes.   The head coach gets his hands dirty, 20,000 miles dirty.  Extra staff, trying to emulate Alabama, were hired.  Technology was employed.  The academic side was shored up, and made a part of recruiting. And this is big, this staff swings for the fences. They are not afraid to go against the "big boys".

The point in all this is, we may not have gone yard the last five recruits, but the rest of the class is fine and after watching our recruiting for fifty years, I am ecstatic about the future.  Bielema knows what he is doing.

So in short, all previous coaching staffs weren't up to par, but "this one" is the best and knows what they are doing.

Ive been reading posts exactly like this and slight variations of it for 10 years now. Without a doubt we'll read and hear about the same sort of stuff with the next coach.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

So in short, all previous coaching staffs weren't up to par, but "this one" is the best and knows what they are doing.

Ive been reading posts exactly like this and slight variations of it for 10 years now. Without a doubt we'll read and hear about the same sort of stuff with the next coach.

We're not gonna have a next coach.  CBB has found a home here and that's that. 

[IronHog]

Exactly. CBB did a really good job feeding AC, HH and DM this year. You are spot on.

Couldn't kick a FG vs Miss St. or score a TD vs Toledo though.....or beat a dysfunctional aTm team.


Lots of stats.....lost on the board

[IronHog]

Glad the OP could provide you guys a chance to hop back on Bobby's harley for a spin around the "what if" bowl.

Two more years. I want to see CBB have two more years to build depth and show what he can do. This website should be a lot different then...oh, hell, it won't because the pissants will simply delete their account and start over talking about how they always believed in CBB.

Id wager BB in 8 years will never put a team on the field that could compete with BPs 3-4 year teams........

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Id wager BB in 8 years will never put a team on the field that could compete with BPs 3-4 year teams........

I'd take that wager, but how are we gonna determine who wins?  Have a 1964 team vs. 1977 team type of debate??

[jkstock04]

We're not gonna have a next coach.  CBB has found a home here and that's that. 

What do you mean? You think he is immortal and will be here for eternity? Even if he retires here eventually we will have a new coach.

However, coming back to reality....I read a while back that the average tenure of head coaches in the SEC is 4-5 years.

[IronHog]

I'd take that wager, but how are we gonna determine who wins?  Have a 1964 team vs. 1977 team type of debate??

Maybe BPs girlfriend and BBs wife could celebrity death match.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Maybe BPs girlfriend and BBs wife could celebrity death match.

Cat fight!!!   

[DeltaBoy]

Maybe BPs girlfriend and BBs wife could celebrity death match.

I would pay for that.

[870hogfan]

Id wager BB in 8 years will never put a team on the field that could compete with BPs 3-4 year teams........

Must be pretty hard to watch your Petrino struggle at Louisville....

[Bubba's Bruisers]

So in short, all previous coaching staffs weren't up to par, but "this one" is the best and knows what they are doing.

Ive been reading posts exactly like this and slight variations of it for 10 years now. Without a doubt we'll read and hear about the same sort of stuff with the next coach.

Troof

[jkstock04]

Must be pretty hard to watch your Petrino struggle at Louisville....

I'm curious to hear your definition of struggle.

[EastexHawg]

The posse was forming against Petrino as lil ol Arkansas finishes 11-2 and ranked 5th his final year. Posse was forming you guys.

Yeah, but he just got lucky in recruiting.  Ryan Mallett fell into his lap.  The fact that he signed with Michigan and transferred to Arkansas so he could play in Petrino's offense is nothing but blind luck.  So is the fact that Joe Adams was committed to USC but flipped to Arkansas when Nutt's prehistoric offense was jettisoned and replaced with Petrino's.  More luck.  It was also just plain luck that he got Knile Davis out of Texas and that Cobi Hamilton chose Arkansas over the Longhorns.  Signing Tyler Wilson after Nutt blew him off was pure luck, too.  Keon Hatcher from Oklahoma...the list goes on and on.

As for his lack of defensive recruiting killing him, there's no doubt about it.  After all, look at how little talent he left behind.  Chris Smith (from North Carolina).  Trey Flowers (Alabama).  Darius Philon (Alabama).  Taiwan Johnson (Texas).  Deatrich Wise (Texas).  Tevin Mitchel (Texas).  Jared Collins (Oklahoma).  Rohan Gaines (Georgia).  Luckily none of those talentless hacks had to play significant minutes, much less start, for the subsequent coaches.

Yep, the posse was forming and the dust was flying.  I remember when we attended the Tennessee game in November of 2011.  I wasn't sure if I was at a football game or on the set of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

[LZH]

I remember very well all the posters who were so giddy about the Sugar Bowl invite, as much for the "recruiting bump" we would get as anything else.  Didn't happen.  Then the next year we win the Cotton Bowl and there's all this talk about the recruiting bump again.  Didn't happen. 

"Man, I'm reeling them in. Oh, you mean football players?".........said Bobby Petrino after he was asked about his last 'recruiting' trip at Arkansas.

[IronHog]

Must be pretty hard to watch your Petrino struggle at Louisville....

Ever see that episode of friends where Monica's boyfriend fun Bobby became unfun?

[DeltaBoy]

In a TV interview Royal told the Media I had unlimited money at UT in the 1960's and I recruited kids and put them on Scholarship to keep Frank or A&M from getting them.

So I admire Frank more now cause not only was the deck stacked with the Zebras it was stacked with the Checkbook too.

[12247]

It is my opinion that this staff does a better job of collecting particular needs in recruiting better than anyone in the past 30 years but overall, I see little difference in the results and in fact, we've done less with more recently than just about any other staff, including Nutts. 

Now just pour it on me for telling it like it is. 

[Deep Shoat]

It is my opinion that this staff does a better job of collecting particular needs in recruiting better than anyone in the past 30 years but overall, I see little difference in the results and in fact, we've done less with more recently than just about any other staff, including Nutts. 

Now just pour it on me for telling it like it is.

It's not "like it is".  It's "like you perceive it" through your turd colored glasses.

[IronHog]

It's not "like it is".  It's "like you perceive it" through your turd colored glasses.

BB has lost to multiple inferior teams the last two years.


He needs to get his game day up to par with his off the field.

[12247]

Unfortunately it is like I said it is Deep Shoat. 

[Mike_e]

Rather than double posting I'll just leave this here..

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=609224.msg10184679#msg10184679

[Hawghiggs]

Yeah, but he just got lucky in recruiting.  Ryan Mallett fell into his lap.  The fact that he signed with Michigan and transferred to Arkansas so he could play in Petrino's offense is nothing but blind luck.  So is the fact that Joe Adams was committed to USC but flipped to Arkansas when Nutt's prehistoric offense was jettisoned and replaced with Petrino's.  More luck.  It was also just plain luck that he got Knile Davis out of Texas and that Cobi Hamilton chose Arkansas over the Longhorns.  Signing Tyler Wilson after Nutt blew him off was pure luck, too.  Keon Hatcher from Oklahoma...the list goes on and on.

As for his lack of defensive recruiting killing him, there's no doubt about it.  After all, look at how little talent he left behind.  Chris Smith (from North Carolina).  Trey Flowers (Alabama).  Darius Philon (Alabama).  Taiwan Johnson (Texas).  Deatrich Wise (Texas).  Tevin Mitchel (Texas).  Jared Collins (Oklahoma).  Rohan Gaines (Georgia).  Luckily none of those talentless hacks had to play significant minutes, much less start, for the subsequent coaches.

Yep, the posse was forming and the dust was flying.  I remember when we attended the Tennessee game in November of 2011.  I wasn't sure if I was at a football game or on the set of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

With post like this. People will call you a CBB hater.

[Inhogswetrust]

I would pay for that.

You want tickets in a suite, indoor club seats, outdoor club seats, regular lower level sideline or upper deck? Oh wait never mind I read somewhere you never buy tickets................

[buldozer]

+1 to the OP, good synopsis of AR recruiting. But there is more CBB and the current administration at the UA can and should do to support and improve recruiting and I for one hope they continue to make improvements in this area.

[MJ2]

Good recap, but so far, the W's haven't shown up for CBB.    If he truly is "slowly building the program", they maybe we'll see more W's, but not in 2016.

[BRHogfan]

I think this is a good summary.  Petrino recruited some of the most excellent offensive players to play at Arkansas (skill positions)

Its hard to take a guy who only had 4 years on the Hill and say what would've happened long term with his recruiting classes.  Louisville fired one guy who couldn't attain Bobby Petrino like results.  It will be interesting to see how long he can hang on there considering the success they had under Strong and Petrino Part I.

[GTOWNHOG]

Now, if we could just win games in September.....

[HotlantaHog]

It is a good summary, but as another poster mentioned, underplays Bobby Petrino.

Yes, Ryan Mallett ''fell into his lap,'' but obviously having a high powered, exciting offense that was well known as one of the most innovative in the country had something to do with attracting him from Michigan, not just his Texarkana roots ... and it wasn't an accident that several of the top wide receivers in the nation came to Arkansas -- or that more than one left after Bobby had has motorcycle accident ...

I tend to agree (in retrospect) with the OP that failures in recruiting defense and a lack of focus on recruiting were going to contribute to a slippage in the success on the field ... but that is just an assumption ... and it is unknowable exactly how things would have played out, absent the motorcycle crash.