NFL Combine Invites

[longpig]

BA one of two SEC QB invites

http://www.nfl.com/combine/participants

[PorkSoda]

who will go higher, prescott or allen?

[bigdaddyhawg]

who will go higher, prescott or allen?

If I were an NFL GM I'd look at finding a way to draft Mr. Prescott.

I think he's got a lot of what Cam brings to the table, but with more brains and a lot more character.

[longpig]

who will go higher, prescott or allen?

My nonhomer opinion is Allen will go before Prescott. 

[cardinalandwhite]

My nonhomer opinion is Allen will go before Prescott.

Height and hand size will hurt Allen, and NFL GM's are strangely obsessed with running quarterbacks. Prescott will likely go first, but Allen would be much more ready to go as a rookie.

[BRHogfan]

Full List includes the usual suspects from Arkansas

Allen, Collins, Henry, Tretola, Kirkland, Williams. 

[Vantage 8 dude]

If I were an NFL GM I'd look at finding a way to draft Mr. Prescott.

I think he's got a lot of what Cam brings to the table, but with more brains and a lot more character.

Yeah, but can he do a better interview than Cam?

[bigdaddyhawg]

Yeah, but can he do a better interview than Cam?

He's a lot brighter than little Cammie, that's for sure.

And I think Dak is a real person, with character.  Little Cammie is as fake as anybody around, and has no character.

[Nipsey Mussle]

If I were an NFL GM I'd look at finding a way to draft Mr. Prescott.

I think he's got a lot of what Cam brings to the table, but with more brains and a lot more character.

He probably does have more brains and character. However, he is a farrrrrrrr cry from matching Cam in overall ability. There's a reason Cam won the heisman, the national title, and was drafted 1st overall. Cam scored 50 total td's this season, how many qb's in nfl history could do that with the Carolina offense? I don't think anyone else could.

[upperdeck_hawg]

He probably does have more brains and character. However, he is a farrrrrrrr cry from matching Cam in overall ability. There's a reason Cam won the heisman, the national title, and was drafted 1st overall. Cam scored 50 total td's this season, how many qb's in nfl history could do that with the Carolina offense? I don't think anyone else could.

which is why i was amazed they went 15-1. when your two best receivers are jericho cotchery and tedd ginn, you have no business going 15-1.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

I think Prescott goes in the 2nd or 3rd round, Allen in the 4th or 5th.  Allen is more polished, but Prescott's raw talent will intrigue some GM who thinks his team can develop him into the next Cam (ability-wise).  And who knows, maybe they can.  He's a stud; just needs to improve his passing mechanics.

[upperdeck_hawg]

GMs might be intrigued with Prescott but he'll be exposed in the league. Those bubble screens that he loved so much in that Urban Meyer spread offense won't be there in the NFL. Neither will the QB dives that he killed us on constantly.

[bigdaddyhawg]

He probably does have more brains and character. However, he is a farrrrrrrr cry from matching Cam in overall ability. There's a reason Cam won the heisman, the national title, and was drafted 1st overall. Cam scored 50 total td's this season, how many qb's in nfl history could do that with the Carolina offense? I don't think anyone else could.

Didn't say Prescott WAS Cam Newton ... I said he has a lot of what Cam brings to the table, i.e. big, strong, can stand against pressure in the pocket, good arm, has some running ability.

I just think Prescott is going to be a very good NFL QB.  He may never put up the stats Cam has, but I think he'll be a much better leader.

The Carolina Panthers were in the Super Bowl mainly because of their great defense.  Cam's offensive efficiency is not that great, but when your defense keeps getting you the ball in ideal field position you will eventually produce.

And don't over-react to that -- yes, Cam Newton is an amazing athlete.  He's just not that bright and he's missing some key ingredients of a winner: mainly character.

[Reservoir Hogs]

GMs might be intrigued with Prescott but he'll be exposed in the league. Those bubble screens that he loved so much in that Urban Meyer spread offense won't be there in the NFL. Neither will the QB dives that he killed us on constantly.

this right here

I have never been impressed with Dak.  I just dont think he has the ability to be a NFL passer.  He stares at receivers and even then is somewhat inaccurate with the ball.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

I have never been impressed with Dak.

As a college QB or as an NFL prospect?  If you watched any amount of SEC football the last 3 years -- including Arkansas' last 3 against MSU -- you'd have to be impressed with what he did on the collegiate level.  He may never make it as an NFL QB, ala Tim Tebow, but regardless of that he was a incredible player for MSU.

[yraciv]

Poor Jake Coker! Finebaum & the Sr. Bowl committee are probably livid.

[RME]

NFL comparisons for those guys are interesting:

Allen - Case Keenum (makes you go "hmm.")
Henry - Witten
Tretola - Bobby Hart
J Will - Yeldon

Too bad the analysis on Collins and Kirkland aren't filled out. Would like to see Collins' comparison.

[root_hawg]

Allen either goes really late or as a FA

[bigdaddyhawg]

GMs might be intrigued with Prescott but he'll be exposed in the league. Those bubble screens that he loved so much in that Urban Meyer spread offense won't be there in the NFL. Neither will the QB dives that he killed us on constantly.

NFL teams don't throw bubble screens?? 

The ones I watched definitely do.

And I'm willing to bet his QB dives will be effective on short yardage, just as they were with Tebow, and as they have been with Newton.

I'm not calling for him to be the next Russell Wilson, but IMO he'll be a heck of a lot better than half the QB's playing in the league now, and that would produce a very long, lucrative career.

[bennyl08]

I'd draft Prescott over Allen, at least for most occasions.

For example, if I'm GB, Dallas, Seattle, Jax, etc... I'd draft BA of DP. In those situations, I know who my starter is an I'm wanting to have a reliable backup who can play now for a few games and won't hurt the team.

If I'm the saints or the cheifs or somebody who currently has a starting qb they like but who may not be around for too much longer, I'm looking to draft Prescott. Develop him a few years and hope he can take over the reigns.

In short, Allen has a higher floor and a lower ceiling than Prescott. This is solely based of physical tools. Whether one plays at their ceiling or near their floor is based on their mental acumen and that really becomes the gamble at the NFL level.

[PorkSoda]

If I were an NFL GM I'd look at finding a way to draft Mr. Prescott.

I think he's got a lot of what Cam brings to the table, but with more brains and a lot more character.

the scout report was decidely worse than allens.

"Accuracy on intermediate and deep throws dropped sharply. Pocket poise has been compromised. Hyper­ aware of pressure around him and lacks awareness to slide and find temporary shelter to make throw. Concern over pressure too often trumps ability to get through progressions. Must speed up the pace of his reads. Footwork is a mess. Slight stride onto stiff upper leg with little weight shift. Restricted follow through and too often tries to muscle throws with upper body. Throws to target rather than leading or throwing them open on short/intermediate throws."

vs

"Outstanding 64 percent rate on intermediate throws. Good catch­-and­-run ball placement on crossing routes. Sneaky arm talent. Able to pump fake, re­set and throw with accuracy. Swift setup in the pocket with a prompt release. Gets ball out in rhythm in rollouts. Rotates hips through throws for quality velocity. Arm to make NFL throws and has drive velocity and accuracy to challenge tight windows in middle of the field. Able to extend plays outside the pocket and find a throw or scramble for first downs."

[PorkSoda]

I'd draft Prescott over Allen, at least for most occasions.

For example, if I'm GB, Dallas, Seattle, Jax, etc... I'd draft BA of DP. In those situations, I know who my starter is an I'm wanting to have a reliable backup who can play now for a few games and won't hurt the team.

If I'm the saints or the cheifs or somebody who currently has a starting qb they like but who may not be around for too much longer, I'm looking to draft Prescott. Develop him a few years and hope he can take over the reigns.

In short, Allen has a higher floor and a lower ceiling than Prescott. This is solely based of physical tools. Whether one plays at their ceiling or near their floor is based on their mental acumen and that really becomes the gamble at the NFL level.

I think thats a fair assessment. 

though prescott is only 1 inch taller and 5 pounds heavier.

[ChitownHawg]

If I were an NFL GM I'd look at finding a way to draft Mr. Prescott.

I think he's got a lot of what Cam brings to the table, but with more brains and a lot more character.

I agree. 

[rzrbackramsfan]

I wonder if we have any other seniors that could make a team.  I think Rohan Gaines could make a team. 

[OPoraquê]

Interestingly, on their site linked above I think BA is ranked slightly ahead of Prescott.  Hope they both get a shot with a team that's right for their skillset (and that has both good coaches and a good o-line).

[sickboy]

Allen either goes really late or as a FA

Depending on how he does at the combine, I'll be he doesn't go any later than the 5th round.

[bennyl08]

Depending on how he does at the combine, I'll be he doesn't go any later than the 5th round.

I think as it stands, he's looking at being a 5-7th round draft pick being being underrated a surprise. With a great combine, he could boost himself up to 4th round tops, but I'm thinking more late 5th to early 7th. I'd love to be wrong though.

[jgphillips3]

That BA is at the combine says what a marvelous job he did this year turning it around under Enos.  There was no chance he was going to the combine until Enos showed up to finally give the kid good QB coaching.  Congratulations to the kid for playing himself into a real shot at being drafted. 

[bigdaddyhawg]

Depending on how he does at the combine, I'll be he doesn't go any later than the 5th round.

Good point.  Every year there's a QB whose combine performance kind of changes some GM's thinking, and it could be BA this year.

[bennyl08]

Good point.  Every year there's a QB whose combine performance kind of changes some GM's thinking, and it could be BA this year.

People are going to be surprised at his forty time and his 10 yard split.

[12247]

Petrino usually knew QB material when he saw it.  I assumed John L. ruined Brandon and I still think that was most of his trouble.  By Brandon's senior season, I think Enos and BB telling him just go have some fun were part of it and Brandon finally likely saying to hell with it, I will pretend I am in my own back yard tossing it around and see what happens.  I can say that is the largest change in any QB in 2 or 3 games I have ever seen.
Brandon Allen went from nearly 100 percent likely to fail when in a bit of duress to nearly 100 percent sure to make the play when under duress within a 3 week period. 

[bigred223]

If I were an NFL GM I'd look at finding a way to draft Mr. Prescott.

I think he's got a lot of what Cam brings to the table, but with more brains and a lot more character.

Prescott is nowhere near newtons level of ability.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Prescott is nowhere near newtons level of ability.

Got it: Cam great, Dak crap.

[31to6]

I think as it stands, he's looking at being a 5-7th round draft pick being being underrated a surprise. With a great combine, he could boost himself up to 4th round tops, but I'm thinking more late 5th to early 7th. I'd love to be wrong though.

The huge advantage that BA has is that NFL coaches are desperate for QBs who don't have to be completely rebuilt for the NFL game. College FB is not producing QBs that are ready for the NFL. They don't read defenses (pre or post-snap). They play in offenses with simplified routes and check-downs and which rely on tempo instead of fundamentals. They don't play under center much--or sometimes not at all. They often lack some basic fundamentals because many college coaches don't try to fix flawed throwing mechanics, footwork, and so on. The list goes on. That is why there are always a couple D-2 or mid-major guys who go high in the draft.

BA has done all those things and under CDE's his fundamentals improved dramatically.

He has a small chance to eventually be a starting QB, but he has a great chance to make a lot of money in the league as a career backup. Chase Daniel will probably never be a starter, but his last contract was a 3-year $10M deal with almost $5M guaranteed. That's not chump change.

[LZH]

The huge advantage that BA has is that NFL coaches are desperate for QBs who don't have to be completely rebuilt for the NFL game. College FB is not producing QBs that are ready for the NFL. They don't read defenses (pre or post-snap). They play in offenses with simplified routes and check-downs and which rely on tempo instead of fundamentals. They don't play under center much--or sometimes not at all. They often lack some basic fundamentals because many college coaches don't try to fix flawed throwing mechanics, footwork, and so on. The list goes on. That is why there are always a couple D-2 or mid-major guys who go high in the draft.

BA has done all those things and under CDE's his fundamentals improved dramatically.

He has a small chance to eventually be a starting QB, but he has a great chance to make a lot of money in the league as a career backup. Chase Daniel will probably never be a starter, but his last contract was a 3-year $10M deal with almost $5M guaranteed. That's not chump change.

Very good post brother.

[bennyl08]

The huge advantage that BA has is that NFL coaches are desperate for QBs who don't have to be completely rebuilt for the NFL game. College FB is not producing QBs that are ready for the NFL. They don't read defenses (pre or post-snap). They play in offenses with simplified routes and check-downs and which rely on tempo instead of fundamentals. They don't play under center much--or sometimes not at all. They often lack some basic fundamentals because many college coaches don't try to fix flawed throwing mechanics, footwork, and so on. The list goes on. That is why there are always a couple D-2 or mid-major guys who go high in the draft.

BA has done all those things and under CDE's his fundamentals improved dramatically.

He has a small chance to eventually be a starting QB, but he has a great chance to make a lot of money in the league as a career backup. Chase Daniel will probably never be a starter, but his last contract was a 3-year $10M deal with almost $5M guaranteed. That's not chump change.

Don't disagree with anything you said, though nothing said really counters anything I said either.

NFL typically has two major factors for who to draft or sign. Can they play immediately and what is their potential? Potential, however, is way more important than playing today. Case in point, Cam Newton vs Russel Wilson. Cam has every physical attribute you could possibly ask for. However, as far as college preparedness, his Gruden show had him calling the play "26." The epitome of the the situation you describe. Wilson on the other hand was a pro-ready qb. Wilson fell the the third round because he was short while Cam went first overall in his draft. Allen does not have the sum of physical tools as Wilson and has less production at the college level. Physically, BA is better than Tyler Wilson. However, if I'm an NFL GM, I'm asking myself, why did it take so long for everything to come together for Allen? I know he was injured his sophomore season, but what about his junior year? Was that really not trusting his receivers or was he still suffering from John El? What's going to happen when he plays at the NFL level? He has a bad game vs the Jets, and how many seasons until he can play at the NFL level again? This is where the interviews are going to play a big role for BA. His two biggest questions will be about hand size and his mental game.

All it takes is him convincing 1/32 teams to draft him.

[31to6]

Don't disagree with anything you said, though nothing said really counters anything I said either.

That's because I wasn't trying to disagree

[bennyl08]

That's because I wasn't trying to disagree

I've spent too much time in the politics section...

[scruf]

I like both Dak and BA. The combine should be fun to watch. Will be rooting for them both.

[Mike_e]

Combine invites?

Hmm, bama has 9 invites  #1 class 2012- #1 2013..................Averaged #1

Arkansas has 6,  #28 class 2012- #24 2013............................Averaged #26

aubie has 8,  #11 class 2012- #10 2013.................................Averaged #10

Fla has 8,  #4 class 2012- #3 2013........................................Averaged #3

georgia has 8,  #8 class 2012-  #11 2013...............................Averaged #9

kentuck has 2,  #50 class 2012-  #41 2013.............................Averaged #46

lswho has 5,  #14 class 2012- #5 2013..................................Averaged #9                                   

ole missy has 6,  #47 class 2012- #4 2013.............................Averaged #25

miss state has 6,  #22 class in 2012-  #23 2013.....................Averaged #22

mizzu has 3,  #31 class 2012-  #38 2013...............................Averaged #34

usce has4,  #17 class 2012-  #18 2013.................................Averaged #17

tenner has 2,  #20 class in 2012-  #26 2013..........................Averaged #23

aTm has 6,  #16 class 2012- #8 2013...................................Averaged #12

and vandy has 1,  #48 class 2012-  #30 2013........................Averaged #39


Rankings taken from 247 sports.  Two years because of the ability of 3rd year guys to enter the draft.

Looks like we were tied for 5th in recruiting in the 3-4 years past time frame as far as combine invites are concerned.

#10 according to the 'services'  (247 uses combination ranking if you didn't know)



#5 in results even in some of the darkest years in program history.

Hmmmmm

[12247]

Our combine invites could say we are not getting enough wins considering the quality of players we seem to get.

We now pay more than ever before for our staff even considering inflation and SEC inflation but we don't get the expected results "WINS" for that money, at least so far.  BB is 18-20 overall and 7-17 in conference in his 3 seasons.

Here is the records of the first 3 years of Head Coaches at Arkansas since Crowe took over:  Third year was Crowe/Kines

Crowe---overall 12-21 & 9-14 in conference & 3 ties
Ford---18-16 overall & 12-11 in conference & 1 tie
Nutt---23-13 overall & 13-11 in conference
Petrino---23-15 overall & 13-11 in conference
BB---18-20 overall & 7-17 in conference.

I hope you fellers can deny the facts all the way to an unbeaten season very soon.

[Mike_e]

Our combine invites could say we are not getting enough wins considering the quality of players we seem to get.

We now pay more than ever before for our staff even considering inflation and SEC inflation but we don't get the expected results "WINS" for that money, at least so far.  BB is 18-20 overall and 7-17 in conference in his 3 seasons.

Here is the records of the first 3 years of Head Coaches at Arkansas since Crowe took over:  Third year was Crowe/Kines

Crowe---overall 12-21 & 9-14 in conference & 3 ties
Ford---18-16 overall & 12-11 in conference & 1 tie
Nutt---23-13 overall & 13-11 in conference
Petrino---23-15 overall & 13-11 in conference
BB---18-20 overall & 7-17 in conference.

I hope you fellers can deny the facts all the way to an unbeaten season very soon.

You can safely throw CBB's first year.  General Patton and his pearl handled pistols wouldn't have done much better with the dumpster fire that was our program in his first one.

[ChitownHawg]

You can safely throw CBB's first year.  General Patton and his pearl handled pistols wouldn't have done much better with the dumpster fire that was our program in his first one.

Yep, hired December 4, 2012 not much time to add to the existing recruits the former staff were working on.

[jgphillips3]

Yep, hired December 4, 2012 not much time to add to the existing recruits the former staff were working on.

Yeah.  You can't really blame or praise a coach for his very first class after 2 months on the job. 

[Hambunctious]

I hope Brandon puts on a good show at the combine, and moves up.  Where is he right now in the QB order? 5th, 6th?

[ChitownHawg]

Yeah.  You can't really blame or praise a coach for his very first class after 2 months on the job.

Oklahawg wrote the below post in the Recruiting Forum:

The pessimism indicates a lack of knowledge about how recruiting works.

Real recruits are the ones who turn into players who work to improve while in college. Hype recruits look good in person or on film (and still do when they leave college) but do not do as much to improve.

5-star improvement > 5-star potential.

Real recruits are not recruited in a matter of days, generally. Real recruits are recruited over years. We offered Carmouche after his freshman year. If he was not smitten with RB we'd have him and not Dee Walker at LB. Relationships. They are built over the long haul.

Arkansas will be like every other school - reacting to last-minute finds who pop up out of nowhere. Maybe it is because of a good senior year, change of position, opportunity, focusing on one sport, etc.

Maybe it is because they finally get film out for coaches to see - this is a huge deal and affects tons of prospects annually. It is why players without D1 offers who land in D2, D3 or NAIA programs wind up in the NFL. (Well, one reason.)

If you are able to land a player you have chased for a few weeks it is because:
a) they recently appeared on the recruiting scene and all courting the recruit are in the same boat
b) you represent a bigger offer and they represent "plan b" or lower
c) they are the type of recruit who is going to flail in the wind and react to here/now recruiting (and you have to wonder if they'll endure the 4-5 year grind to get on the field at your school).

I wrote all of that as a preface.

Johnell's 8 months as head coach are a well-documented failure. One place that failure is not acknowledged is on the recruiting trail. Petrino had 160 offers out when Sweetie and Petrino wrecked the bike. Harleygate. There were a dozen or so commits, mostly from in-state kids, and when CBB arrived the active contact list was smaller than 25 players. Out of 160 over 135 had crossed UA off the list.

That meant that their HS coaches had no contact either. That would equal dozens of top HS programs having no contact with UA for a year. It is related to the Nutt failures of flipping territory every year, flopping around in the wind. Texas, Florida, Texas, Louisiana, NO! All failed and the long-term pain was felt by Petrino, and is still influencing us in some places in TX.

OU coaches talk about the inroads made for them in recruiting in East Texas...by Bud Wilkinson. By Barry Switzer. Not last year or even the last decade. The last century. Switzer capitalized on integration and it continues to benefit their program. Wilkinson laid the foundation 20 years before Switzer went to OU as an assistant.

[bennyl08]

Oklahawg gave wrote the below post in the Recruiting Forum:

Good write up, especially the last half. Though I disagree with the first half some.

Namely, on how much a player improves. The finer scale tuning of one's game is typically harder than the large scale learning. For example, say a qb comes in who at 20 yards can't hit a single pass through a tire while a more highly rated recruit is hitting 70/100 through the tire. The highly rated recruit will have a more difficult time improving from 70 to 90 than the lower recruit from 0 to 60. The guy who has never actually been in a weight room is going to more quickly add muscle than the guy who has been working out for 3 years. The highly rated recruit may work twice as hard, but the improvements are going to be smaller because the low hanging fruit is gone.

[RzRbAcK18]

Who would have thought after these years of "burning" BA in these threads and comments that would be talking draft projection. Love it for him.

[onebadrubi]

BA's hand size is nkw going to be what makes a few teams pass on him.  If his H&D's were just average, everything ice read he'd be too 5 QB's for sure in his draft and that would get him a top 3 round pick and some guaranteed money with a signing bonus, much like mallett. 

Does anyone know if his previous workouts have been with the collegiate ball or NFL ball?  I'm sure the combine is the NFL ball, right?

[bennyl08]

BA's hand size is nkw going to be what makes a few teams pass on him.  If his H&D's were just average, everything ice read he'd be too 5 QB's for sure in his draft and that would get him a top 3 round pick and some guaranteed money with a signing bonus, much like mallett. 

Does anyone know if his previous workouts have been with the collegiate ball or NFL ball?  I'm sure the combine is the NFL ball, right?

Have you spent so much time in politics that your computer autocorrects to a regular poster there rather than hands? Lol.