For All You "IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE STARS" Folks

[jabohog]

Show me a BCS National Champion without 5 stars riding the pine behind 5 stars.

You can't.

Not every 4 and 5 star kid pans out, but that's a really sad way to make yourself feel better about our middle of the pack recruiting, which by no coincidence is where we finish every year.

If your going to go with this, then show me a BCSNC that doesn't have more money than us, show me one who's state doesn't triple the D1 talent recruited out of it than ours and if it does then their stadium is bigger and so is their tradition. Show me one that hasn't ranked in the top 20 for the last ten years, and so on. We have to play with the hand that is dealt us. We have a staff in here now that may build us up, but it takes time and better than 5-7 and 7-5 records.

I will say we are better off than we were. I'm willing to be patient for a couple more years and see how some of this is going to pan out. If Petrino stays, it may take awhile, but eventually we are going to be a top 25 team year in and year out. Will we ever be a Bama, Florida, or texass type team? Probably not, but we will be bitching about different things than we are now. JMO.

[Music City Hog]

There you go with more nonsense. Where did I mention anything about this class breaking a proverbial mold??? Oh and MusicCityHog and was your buddy levelheaded who said Petrino couldn't polish "turds". There isn't a player in this class I wouldn't have taken any other recruiting year (including last year). You guys kill me with the lame cliches like "love the helmet" etc. You can't debate without putting words in my mouth. I believe the issue is that you guys have a large case of **** envy when it comes to other teams classes. We are improving and building depth AND I think the kids we are bringing in under Petrino are better athletes than those we signed in the old staffs last few classes.

Taintlint isnt my buddy.  I actually think both you and he are equal in the 'drama queen' department with your respective opinions.  I try to have rational conversations with as many facts as possible and alot of opinions too knowing nobody is going to change anyone's mind in the end.  You two just like to call names, chastise each other and make opposing views look like idiots.  Am I guilty of that at some point along the way?  I am sure I am, but I try to actually present my opinions and points of view better than that.  Maybe I need to do better as well.   My opinions are always changing and I call things as I see them.  Last year I was estatic with recruiting, but I just happen to be more concerned with it this year.

[regi]

I'd like to see you say that to Ryan Mallett's, Joe Adam's DJ Williams', Broderick Green's, Ronnie Wingo Jr's, Jericho Nelson's, Darius Winston's DD Jones's, Malcom Shepaprd's ............. face.

Those are all big time recruits with the possible exception of Shepard. No need to tell them anything.

Petrino can and will coach guys up, it is hard to see him out coaching Saban, Meyer, Richt, Spurrier etc.. if we allow them to bring in better players. Last Season was a beautiful recruiting class. This season, the top dogs have told us no, or have not jumped on yet. The question is why?

[Science Fiction Greg]

Well I agree with you there.  The sytem is clearly subjective and not a science at all.  I also agree that BP hasnt given any of us a reason to question him.  I dont question him a bit.  He offered dozens and dozens of 4 and 5 star players because he saw their talent and wanted them to be Hogs.  The problem is that once he evaluated them and offered them a scholarship this year he couldnt convince them to be Hogs.  Now we have the next level of guys committed that would come here.  I trust that he saw exactly what Rivals and the 'elite schools' saw because he offered them scholarships.  He now needs to do what it takes to get those kids to accept offers rather than being forced to fall back to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th choices if that's the case.

Some he offered, some he didn't offer because of reasons outlined by Oklahawg here: http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=325896

I do agree that this class isn't as good as we'd like it to be, but the difference between this class and some ranked ahead of ours isn't as big as some seem to think, and still has time to improve.

[hogzz1]

You want to give them a few more years, huh?

Can you or anyone else look over the last, lets say 25 years, and give me ONE SINGLE Top 15 program over those 25 years that has done so with mediocre recruiting classes?

The answer is to that is obvious: The Top 15 programs, or even Top 20, have never done so with crap classes.

You guys keep saying "a few more years" and "we'll coach them up", but you can't point to a single successful school that does the same.

The truth is hard for many here to swallow. Crap classes equal crap results. They always have and always will.

I'm not talking one hit wonders or BCS busters. Give me a consistent Top 20 program with consistent mediocre recruiting.

Is it fair to say the recruiting services BASE a lot of their rankings on how a program has performed over the last 25yrs?  Programs that have consistently been there are going to by default get higher rankings for there recruits.  Why would recruiting take the risk of establishing the ratings base on there evals only? To inefficient and risky of being grossly inaccurate.  Ask why ND, FSU, Miami, Tennessee are always ranked fairly high despite being mediocre for 3-5 year periods.  Why holtz and spurrier continue to rank high in recruitin but nothing on the field.  I would guess Nebraska had high ranked classes, as would Michigan.  Penn State is constantly up there but I would never call them elite.  It seems that Pitts been ranked high for a while now.  I could put together recruiting rankings right now with out evaluating players for the next five years and I will be fairly accurate.  There could be teams I whiff on but I'll put the usual suspects in at top.  Its a business, they want to succeed. Go back 5yrs and take a look at all the teams they whiffed on.  Or better yet go back and look at rerankings every year.  If your argument is that Rivals is accurate be fair to yourself don't just look at what they got right and look at those missed as well.  Way more than they got right.   Anybody can predict with some accuracy some who will be among top teams for the next 5 years. 

[The Pig]

Show me a BCS National Champion without 5 stars riding the pine behind 5 stars.

You can't.

Not every 4 and 5 star kid pans out, but that's a really sad way to make yourself feel better about our middle of the pack recruiting, which by no coincidence is where we finish every year.

Only one team out of what, 116 or so can be a national champion each year.

There are numerous examples of teams who play in BCS bowls who are not loaded with 4 and 5 star recruits. Just look down the list this year.

There is also a pretty good list of schools with quite a bit of 5 star talent that won't be playing in the BCS bowls this year.

5 stars certainly make it easier to obtain but it ain't impossible without having many on your roster

[Hawgvillain]

Did you read "1" in my explanation? I guess not.

I was mocking a thread on MMQB. There is a thread up trying to make our current class sound sooooooooo incredible based on the fact that such and such school had a 4 star player not pan out.

And yes, I am happy. We are about to win an 8th game and next year up to 10, which is the most any realistic Hog fan (post-SWC) should ever hope for aloud.

Yes.  Of course I read it.  I still don't understand what you hope to accomplish unless it's some failed (judging by the responses) attempt at humor.  Did you read my post?

[levelheaded]

Those kids can upset a team or two a year, just like us.

Put those schools in the SEC and they will average 7 wins a year, just like us.

It's amusing that going on 20 years of SEC play there is still a majority of our fan base that does not see where we stand in the grand scheme. It all starts with recruiting and we always have been and always will be mediocre in that area on a regular basis.

I have accepted this and enjoy our 6 to 9 win years. Those who do not, live frustrated lives and always will.

Everything you said was said with absolute integrity and truth. We cannot break the mold of who we are; if we were going to rise up it would have been done by now; face it, Houston got us 10 wins in a season and that will happen again but will not be surpassed.
Taintlint, isn't it nice to enjoy the Hogs for what they are and not gripe and get disappointed at what they are not!

[El Puerco]

When does this start? Let me guess............"next year"?

Similarities between religion and football:

A day of worship. For fans of American college football, this is Saturday.

Large congregations coming together for worship. Many football games have tens of thousands of passionate spectators.

Popular worship centres. Some football stadiums are seen as more famous or 'hallowed' than others.

Hard-core believers. Those who are longstanding members of a church congregation get to choose their favourite seats. The same is true for football fans.

Sense of community. People from many different social, cultural and economic backgrounds come together with the same aims in mind.

Rituals and symbolism. In football these include team songs, mascots, designs on the football kit and half time team talks.

Keep the faith, brother.

[LSPRazorbac]

Let me make a few things clear:




1-   I started this thread in MMQB to mock the one there of the opposite title. This thread was moved. That one stayed


2-   I'm not a "coach in the stands". Actually, I'm one of the rare people who see us for who we really are and don't expect much more than 6 to 9 wins in any given year. We're in the SEC now. We are not LSU, Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, or Tennessee. We are about 7th in potential, which is exactly where we land in overall wins since joining the SEC.

3-   I'm not crying. Like I said above, I'm one of the few who have liberated their souls from the false beliefs that run rampant through the Arkansas fanbase. We have what it takes to upset a team or two a year, but that will always be our role. A middle of the pack SEC team capable of big upsets and winning the West once or twice every 10 years, which is our average since joining.

4-   It doesn't matter if Bear Bryant and Vince Lombardi are the coaches. You will not win a national championship, or even the SEC, with the types of classes we are bringing in.

This is small thinking.

1)  You don't compete for NCs over night.  It takes time.  Since joining the SEC this program has constantly grown.  Arkansas is not considered fertile recruiting ground so it takes a little more time than say a school like LSU or FSU.  But we are improving.

2)  By excepting that you are a mediocre, you insure that you will always be mediocre.  A program must refuse to except mediocrity to overcome it.  That is where Arkansas is know.  That is why we went after Petrino!  We did not hire him to be a middle of the pack team.  He is here to either win a Championship or lay the foundation to win a championship in the future.

3)  In this Decade, the SEC has won 4 out of 9 NC's with the possibility of wining 5 out of 10.  This shows if you have the talent to win in the SEC, you have the talent to win a NC.  During this, span we have played for the SEC Championship which is proof that we are getting close to being a Championship calibre team.  HDN set us back with his recruiting the last couple of years, but we are making up ground. 


If you cannot see this, I actually feel sorry for you.  Why even follow the Razorbacks?  What joy do you get out of expecting to be mediocre?

I myself look forward to seeing Arkansas win the SEC one day and to also see Arkansas take home the Crystal.  The day I except that will never happen is the day I stop following college football.

You expect our players to fight and not give up on the football field yet you have already given up on them.  Sad!

[Hog_in_Bama]

This is small thinking.

1)  You don't compete for NCs over night.  It takes time.  Since joining the SEC this program has constantly grown.  Arkansas is not considered fertile recruiting ground so it takes a little more time than say a school like LSU or FSU.  But we are improving.

2)  By excepting that you are a mediocre, you insure that you will always be mediocre.  A program must refuse to except mediocrity to overcome it.  That is where Arkansas is know.  That is why we went after Petrino!  We did not hire him to be a middle of the pack team.  He is here to either win a Championship or lay the foundation to win a championship in the future.

3)  In this Decade, the SEC has won 4 out of 9 NC's with the possibility of wining 5 out of 10.  This shows if you have the talent to win in the SEC, you have the talent to win a NC.  During this, span we have played for the SEC Championship which is proof that we are getting close to being a Championship calibre team.  HDN set us back with his recruiting the last couple of years, but we are making up ground. 


If you cannot see this, I actually feel sorry for you.  Why even follow the Razorbacks?  What joy do you get out of expecting to be mediocre?

I myself look forward to seeing Arkansas win the SEC one day and to also see Arkansas take home the Crystal.  The day I except that will never happen is the day I stop following college football.

You expect our players to fight and not give up on the football field yet you have already given up on them.  Sad!

Quoted for truth. I have a cousin who plays RB for the hogs right now and from listing to him talk, Petrino really has these players believing they can win it all. They believe in the program. No more acceptance of anything. I would love to see someone tell him that they are mediocre and would never win more than 6-9.

[Oklahawg]

In the past 8 years...I discovered this set of BCS teams (is that good enough for "Top 15"?) who traditionally do not have Top 25 recruiting classes:

2009 Season - TCU, Boise State, Cincy, Georgia Tech, Oregon, Iowa
2008 - Utah, Va Tech, Cincy
2007 - Kansas, Va Tech, Hawaii, Illinois
2006 - Louisville, Wake Forest, Boise State
2005 - West Virginia
2004 - Va Tech, Utah, Pitt.

In fairness, some of these teams have had highly rated classes:
2009 (Ark #14) - Va Tech (23)
2008 (Ark #36) - Va Tech (18), Oregon (19)
2007 (Ark #31) - Oregon (11), Georgia Tech (18), Illinois (20), West Virginia (23)
2006 (Ark #26) - none
2005 (Ark #24) - Iowa (11), Va Tech (14)
2004 (Ark #22) - Oregon (12)
2003 (Ark #29) - none
2002 (Ark #26) - none
BTW, if you want to look at a year of wackiness, check out the 2003 final Rivals (Team Top 25) rankings: http://arkansas.rivals.com/TeamRank.asp?postype=0&sort=0&year=2003 .

Naysayers will counter, "well, if Arkansas played Va Tech's schedule or Oregon's schedule we'd be in good shape."

Those getting the idea will say, "gee, lots of BCS appearances doled out to teams without perennial top 25 recruiting classes."

If this was really that simple Nuttjob would never have backed his way into two SEC CG appearances. Nutt had ONE recruiting class (2001, I believe) that withstood the test of time as a legit recruiting class.

Oklahawg's formula for a FIRST BCS appearance looks like this: get the tough games at home; stay healthy at critical positions; stellar playmaker, preferably one (more?) on each side of the ball; good fortune to have a prime adversary "down" when we play them; good fortune to get help (someone beats a team we need beat); and, then stand toe-to-toe in the SEC CG.  I think we'll have to be a 10-2 type team that wins the SEC CG. I can't see us losing the SEC CG and getting an at-large bid, short of Mallett winning the Heisman and being the market draw someone wants.

Get there ONCE and all things change.

[Gonzo]

Everything you said was said with absolute integrity and truth. We cannot break the mold of who we are; if we were going to rise up it would have been done by now; face it, Houston got us 10 wins in a season and that will happen again but will not be surpassed.
Taintlint, isn't it nice to enjoy the Hogs for what they are and not gripe and get disappointed at what they are not!

For two people who "enjoy the Hogs for what they are and not gripe" y'all sure do bitch and moan about the program on here alot. Is that what you mean by truth and integrity? Since the Hogs are forever locked in an unbreakable cell of mediocrity, why do you even give a damn? The really funny part is not that you think what you do, but that you think others might actually buy it.



Go Hogs! Beat E Carolina!

[jamie72921]

OU over Fla St.

[Hog_in_Bama]

Its not all about stars. Auburn for instance has won 6 out of the last 7 signing days but LOST 5 out of the last 7 times in October. Heck, let Rivals and Scout tell it, we should never beat AU. That just goes to show that recruiting is an inexact science and more about meeting team needs.

No other SEC team has shown that sort of dominance over AU during that team period (not UF, Bama, LSU, UGA, UT etc.) and some of those teams have even more stars than AU. There were three Top 15 recruiting classes on that AU team we smashed 44-23 this year and will be another Top 10 class added on when we put 50 on them next year at their place. How is this possible with all the star studded classes they have??

[Pork Twain]

LSU has had a bazillion 4* and 5* guys the last two years. Didn't stop Petrino from out-coaching Miles and getting a win and a 2nd game to OT.

Auburn has more glitzy recruiting classes than UA but that didn't stop UA from handing Chizik a beatdown. Ditto Spurrier and the boys from USC-E.

At some point, coaching enters the picture.

AND...at some point these kids will see that and start coming here.  We just have to keep doing it and keep getting better.

[Oklahawg]

AND...at some point these kids will see that and start coming here.  We just have to keep doing it and keep getting better.

The multiple threads related to this topic all are victim to a frighteningly short data pool on Petrino at Arkansas. We had little foundation for him to build upon. Until we have another year of data - on-field and off-field - we are left to these exercises.

[ballhogger14u]

we will never have the 4and 5 star kids year in and year out like florida, alabama, lsu , and georgia, does.  arkansas does not have that kind of talent in state, these schools get a lot of instate talent, we haft to cherry pick our state with the few we have and hope they don't go out of state, if arkansas had 20 to 30 4and 5 star recruits every year in the state we could match up with them, but fact is we dont then you add to the fact that there is a ton of talent in texas , but we only play one game a year there and the big 12 is the league as far as texas is concerned, it makes it tough for us, best anyone will ever do here is what petrino is doing, get some talent at skill position and coach like hell

[Lake City Hog]

How many of you "star gazers" know how the Rivals team rankings are compiled? Go and look at the Rivals team rankings today (12/24) and notice that USC has an average star rating of 4.0 and a team ranking of #11, while Texas has a 3.81 *average and the #1 team ranking.

Look right above the bold headline "2010 Team Ranking" and you will see a smaller headline " How do we arrive at our ranking" click on that link and read the description. You might become even more confused about Stars and Rankings. Teams are ranked on quantity and quality, more starts = more points, OK sounds pretty good, although a team could sign 30 prospects knowing that 10 of them won't qualify.
Here is where it gets a little weird - Players rated at the top in their position get extra or more points and players rated in the Rivals Top 100 get even more "bonus points". Does this "Ranking System" really quantify a teams recruits or does it create a false sense of superiority?

[pigzwillrise]

Show me a BCS National Champion without 5 stars riding the pine behind 5 stars.

You can't.

Not every 4 and 5 star kid pans out, but that's a really sad way to make yourself feel better about our middle of the pack recruiting, which by no coincidence is where we finish every year.

agreed... takes talent to win... the stars arent always accurate but the whole purpose of stars is to judge talent... i dont see why its such a big argument... seems simple enough

[LJHOG]

Stars or not, we do not have the talent to consistantly challenge for the SECW at this time.  Perhaps we're getting there.  But, it will be a long process because there simply isn't enough talent in the state of Arkansas to support an SEC team.