*Official* "Todd McShay was right" thread

[Cobbler]

10,000 athletes? That's quite a stretch on the realistic draft pool.

[big_ol_meat]

Who was the last pure pocket passer to win the Super Bowl? Peyton Manning in 2007 or Eli in 2008?

As I said, they aren't wanting players to run the option. But they do want players who can escape pressure when needed.

I thought Eli was a little mobile?  I remember him running quite a bit at Ole Miss. 

[big_ol_meat]

10,000 athletes? That's quite a stretch on the realistic draft pool.

I was just giving an estimate.  I think there are about that many division 1 athletes.  Not all are eligible for the draft nor are they all good enough but it's still a crap shoot.  Even if it's 1000 athletes, would you still bet the farm on them?

[The Hogfather]

Who was the last pure pocket passer to win the Super Bowl? Peyton Manning in 2007 or Eli in 2008?

As I said, they aren't wanting players to run the option. But they do want players who can escape pressure when needed.

Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, just to name a few.
They are all pocket passers.  Look at all the really good teams last year and most of them had QBs who threw most of their passes from the pocket.  Sometimes they'll move the pocket, etc.  We did that with Mallett some and he excelled doing that.  Those guys they took in the 1st round aren't good enough passing from the pocket to be highly successful NFL QBs.

[Cobbler]

Who was the last pure pocket passer to win the Super Bowl? Peyton Manning in 2007 or Eli in 2008?

As I said, they aren't wanting players to run the option. But they do want players who can escape pressure when needed.

Assuming you don't count Rodgers as a pure pocket passer, then it would be Brees the year before.

[DukeOfPork]

From what I've seen and know, HogFather is smarter than some/many NFL GM's. 

Yeah, HogFather is quite the omniscient football guru.  That was on display yesterday when he belittled me for believing the prognosticators that Mallett would not be drafted high in the first round:

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=409265.msg6190846#msg6190846

If you are going to tout his knowledge and advise people to listen to his wisdom, the least you can do is check to see whether his past predictions amounted to a steaming pile of manure or not.**

You guys that are all bent out of shape about Ryan "being done wrong" seem to have something against facts and reality.




(**  Yes, you blowhards that were adamant that the Press was all wrong are going to be held accountable.  It's the only way you'll learn from your mistakes)

[The Hogfather]

Yeah, HogFather is quite the omniscient football guru.  That was on display yesterday when he belittled me for believing the prognosticators that Mallett would not be drafted high in the first round:

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=409265.msg6190846#msg6190846

If you are going to tout his knowledge and advise people to listen to his wisdom, the least you can do is check to see whether his past predictions amounted to a steaming pile of manure or not.**

You guys that are all bent out of shape about Ryan "being done wrong" seem to have something against facts and reality.


(**  Yes, you blowhards that were adamant that the Press was all wrong are going to be held accountable.  It's the only way you'll learn from your mistakes)

Yeah, it looks like a few more bought into it than I thought.  I still think he'll go before 40, but at this point, who knows?

What I said is correct, however.  Vegas skews their numbers based on perception.  They might think the line is 7, but if they think the betting public perceives the line to be higher than that, they'll start it at 10, etc.

I think Vegas expected him to go mid 1st to early 2nd and added picks on there because of the blowhards like McShay/Kiper talking about Evil Mallett on ESPN all day everyday.

[dynastyhog]

No clue.  First year?  Maybe Chizik kept Malzhan on a leash?  We'll find out this year.  Hard to argue with production.  But he did it at Tulsa as well.......

He did do it at Tulsa and I'm not arguing w/ production.  I'm not even arguing that his system is bad.  All I'm saying is Cam was a beast.  IMO they won b/c of Cam, not the system.  Chiz didn't keep Malzahn on a short leash.  When Gus has the right guy running his O.  They will be tough.  Don't expect that system to come in 3rd or better in the West this year.

[The Hogfather]

And the QBs not taken in the first round aren't mobile enough to escape pressure and get outside the pocket.

Mallett had the mobility of a potted plant in some games. He'll improve on that in the NFL.

I'm not disputing the fact that GMs/Coaches are enamored by the guys who like to move and throw outside the pocket.  Sure, you can find a guy like Aaron Rodgers every once in awhile, but not very often.  And I really even consider him and Roethlisberger as pocket passers for the most part, with some designed movement of the pocket mixed in.  Mobility is about 20th on things that you should look for, though, if speaking of anything other than moving to avoid pressure inside the pocket.  Most of the guys who are mobile do well when they are outside the pocket and the defense has to decide to go for the QB or cover the open WRs.  If you keep them in the pocket, though, their passing declines dramatically (see Mike Vick with teams that made it a point to keep him in the pocket).

[Johnny America]

This thread is pretty amazing. McShay was right about RM not going in the first round though. I thought that was the original point of this topic??

[big_ol_meat]

This thread is pretty amazing. McShay was right about RM not going in the first round though. I thought that was the original point of this topic??

You're the first person to admit he was right.......lol

[dynastyhog]

You're the first person to admit he was right.......lol

Mcshay was right.  Will you be making a thread for all the times he is wrong?

[DukeOfPork]

Mcshay was right.  Will you be making a thread for all the times he is wrong?

We already have those.  Do a search.

You're the first person to admit he was right.......lol

I - and about 25 others on the board - admitted he was right in a poll BEFORE the draft started.

It didn't require any special insight; all it required was to not be a delusional homer for just a moment.

[Iwastherein1969]

He did his job of getting Gabbert to the top 10 and Mallett out of the 1st round.

[BleedsRazorbackRed]

Would you agree or disagree that they don't lead in all those categories w/o Cam?  Not attacking they system, but Cam was a beast.  If the system is so awesome how come they didn't lead in everything in 09?

That's what we are all concerned about is wether you eat crow or not! 

I'll eat crow if he fails in the NFL.

That's what we are all concerned about is wether you eat crow or not. 

Give it up!  This is not about Mallett.  Maybe this thread is, but not this forum.  You and and all the other Mallett huggers can keep looking thru the "hog glasses", but this is about the Hogs!!

What is wrong with you people?

Who gives a damn when he is drafted?  We all all hope he does well.  You and all the others don't have an unbiased clue as to his true value in the NFL.  Root on the future Hogs!

[dynastyhog]

That's what we are all concerned about is wether you eat crow or not! 
That's what we are all concerned about is wether you eat crow or not. 

Give it up!  This is not about Mallett.  Maybe this thread is, but not this forum.  You and and all the other Mallett huggers can keep looking thru the "hog glasses", but this is about the Hogs!!

What is wrong with you people?

Who gives a damn when he is drafted?  We all all hope he does well.  You and all the others don't have an unbiased clue as to his true value in the NFL.  Root on the future Hogs!

I am die hard Razorback bro.  If they shed the blood, sweat, and tears for the HOGS then I am concerned about them during, and after their Razorback career. 

[RebelliousHog]

Big ol meat, your avatar made me lol

[Y-lee-coyote]

From what I've seen and know, HogFather is smarter than some/many NFL GM's.  If those guys are soooo smart, how come they're usually wrong?  And if you were very smart Y-lee, you'd shut up and pay attention to what HF is trying to tell ya, or you can go ahead and argue with him and let him tear you a new a hole.

So what are you saying that the name calling person who has made himself seem foolish throughout this thread is some kind of internet tough guy?

Well all I can say is I am right here in Benton, if you or he feel like ripping somebody a new one, bring it. i not scare!
I should have known better to try and engage in intelligent discourse with somebody who was very busy demonstrating that he had so little intelligence to begin with.

I apologize for picking on somebody with who is obviously intellectually challenged.

[HogBreath]

So what are you saying that the name calling person who has made himself seem foolish throughout this thread is some kind of internet tough guy?

Well all I can say is I am right here in Benton, if you or he feel like ripping somebody a new one, bring it. i not scare!
I should have known better to try and engage in intelligent discourse with somebody who was very busy demonstrating that he had so little intelligence to begin with.

I apologize for picking on somebody with who is obviously intellectually challenged.

See, that's the whole point, HF done tore you a new A hole, but you're too dumb to know it.

If you're Y-lee Coyote, HF must be the Roadrunner!  Beep beep!

[big_ol_meat]

Dinner is served.  Who wants to say "I'm Sorry McShay, you were right" first?

[big_ol_meat]

See, that's the whole point, HF done tore you a new A hole, but you're too dumb to know it.

If you're Y-lee Coyote, HF must be the Roadrunner!  Beep beep!

HF basically just got mad and blew up.  He never really had a valid point.  He just kept saying because of his stats and arm RM should have been the first QB taken.  Doesn't matter, the point is McShay was right about RM being a 3rd rounder.  It doesn't matter if he breaks every single record or if all the QB's in front of him never play a single down.  McShay still called it.

[big_ol_meat]

Pick number 74.  The 5th pick by the Patriots.

[RD]

You can post your apologies for his expert call on Mallett not being a first rounder in this thread.

Tom Brady wasn't wanted at first either.....so your post in moot

[waynespur21]

Man, I got crushed by a lot of you guys in this thread 2 months ago when I said RM isn't going in the 1st.

Hilarious... and 97% of you vets on hogville are eating crow willingly or not, you are in your sleep regardless.

Just saying.. you guys have to think outside of the bun. Meaning, take a step back from your fandom and look at it from an outsiders perspective more often.

[kaiserhog]

Man, I got crushed by a lot of you guys in this thread 2 months ago when I said RM isn't going in the 1st.

Hilarious... and 97% of you vets on hogville are eating crow willingly or not, you are in your sleep regardless.

Just saying.. you guys have to think outside of the bun. Meaning, take a step back from your fandom and look at it from an outsiders perspective more often.

No eating crow.  That will be done later and not by the 97% of hogville.  Just tired of having fools like McShay foisted on us as expert evaluators of NFL talent.

[waynespur21]

Nah, crow eating happened when the 2nd round started regardless if anyone would admit it.

I'm already getting smited for being right.

[kaiserhog]

Really? What does it all mean?  Not one damn thing.  Time to move on to the 2011 season.

[waynespur21]

Really? What does it all mean?  Not one damn thing.  Time to move on to the 2011 season.

Agreed. In the end Mallett got the best thing possible going to NE.

[N HOG]

The talking heads were right about his position in the draft.  He obviously didn't go first round.  McShay and Mayock are informed entertainers that make their living on the draft.  I found it very interesting that after building up Locker for the last several months when he was selected by MN, Mayock laughed. Then they had the film queued up to show all the imperfections in the kid's game.  They were prepared for the old build them up and then tear them down scenario.  It makes for an interesting read in the papers and good TV. 

Mark this down.  When Mallett is selected, he will be designated as a great "value" pick by the talking heads.  They will say that this allows him to develop into a quality NFL quarterback.  They will say that as soon as he reports to the team he will have one of the top 10 arms in the league.  They will show clip after clip of his "great throws" and "great reads".  They will say how he comes from a pro-style offense in college and has a high football IQ.  He will be a tear them down and build them up project for the media. 

Brilliant prediction.

Exactly what happened.

[big_ol_meat]

I only made this posts because I hate most of our fans.  It's a shame that such a fan base can ruin a great thing.  Most are delusional, arrogant, and stubborn.  And now we see the stubborn part with the people who were out to get McShay not admitting he's right. 

[pignatious]

Tom Brady getting picked as the 7th QB in the draft, just as Mallett was, should tell you all you need to know about the so called experts. Not comparing Mallett to Brady, but these experts are frequently proven way off base.

[Birminghog]

Go look at some of the polls of people from around the country on who they think will be the best QB from this draft.  They consistently picked Mallett.

You are correct, sir.  E.g. Phil Simms, Kurt Warner.  Any questions?

[MM-gohogs]

he's also an idiot, just commenting on one draftee's "Wonderlic time"

when did they start timing the Wonderlic? i know it's all about getting the highest score, but i think it adds an all new dynamic to see who can get the fastest time.

[HogSophist]

You are correct, sir.  E.g. Phil Simms, Kurt Warner.  Any questions?

warren moon and Marino went third in that draft in 83.

[fullfan]

And McShay wasn't right. Not yet. He didn't say Mallett wasn't a first rounder. McShay said Mallett would fall to round 3 or 4.

guess he was

[big_ol_meat]

guess he was

That's exactly my point.  It's not a matter of whether WE think Mallett is the best QB.  It doesn't matter if even Obama passed a law saying he should be drafted before other QB's.  It's the point that our fan base won't admit that someone else is right just because they think the world is out to get them.  I guess since McShay was right maybe it is us versus the world? 
I personally thought Mallett was a late 1st/early 2nd round pick.  It doesn't matter.  I'll admit I was wrong.  I don't see why most of you won't admit you're wrong. 

[Beantown Razahback]

I dont necessarily think that McShay being right or wrong about the fall is the issue here. Correctly forecasting draft stock is a total crapshoot; all it could have taken was one team swooping in to take Dalton or Kaepernick when we picked first in the second round, then Cincy or San Fran takes the other one and the remaining team takes Mallett. The draft is crazy and random at times.

The issue, in my mind, is the consistent railing on Mallett that McShay participated in for five months. Even the other most critical observers of Ryan managed to find some nice things to say about him while having him slipping on their boards. I obviously feel strongly about this because it involves RM, but McShay could have made his point while being far less over the top in his criticisms IMHO

[big_ol_meat]

I dont necessarily think that McShay being right or wrong about the fall is the issue here. Correctly forecasting draft stock is a total crapshoot; all it could have taken was one team swooping in to take Dalton or Kaepernick when we picked first in the second round, then Cincy or San Fran takes the other one and the remaining team takes Mallett. The draft is crazy and random at times.

The issue, in my mind, is the consistent railing on Mallett that McShay participated in for five months. Even the other most critical observers of Ryan managed to find some nice things to say about him while having him slipping on their boards. I obviously feel strongly about this because it involves RM, but McShay could have made his point while being far less over the top in his criticisms IMHO

I don't think anyone is really arguing against that.  But I repeat like I have in other threads, how much could "negative" press really hurt?
North Carolina players who missed the entire season due to a scandal involving agents.  I remember two being drafted before Mallett (Marvin Austin and I forget the other).  Jimmy Smith had the same type issues.  He actually has a confirmed failure of a drug test, and a few minor in possession charges.  Cam Newton, well speaks for itself.  The ESPN people did not fail to mention any of these with the exception of Newton.  Even Gruden and Kiper were shocked at the first round pics following the troubled past of some. 

[hoghearted]

I only made this posts because I hate most of our fans.  It's a shame that such a fan base can ruin a great thing.  Most are delusional, arrogant, and stubborn.  And now we see the stubborn part with the people who were out to get McShay not admitting he's right. 

Really? You hate most Hog fans? You mention arrogance. Does that mean that you don't consider yourself as arrogant? Because I have to tell you, you sure come across that way.

[big_ol_meat]

Touche'.  Usually I'm called a dick, not arrogant.

[kaiserhog]

I think what galls most of us is the way McShay used his position to spread unconfirmed rumors. He made sure he was right by playing unfair.  Personally, he has not impressed me with his football knowledge.  We have the best situation in our football program in at least 35 years.  We are ready to move on and not sit around and beat our big ole meat.