What if Arkansas was in the Big XII North?

[hogfaninbr]

OK, out of the past 10 years, tell me which ones Arkansas would have won the Big 12 North.  (If Arkansas would "dominate" it as said before, I would expect at last 5 years.) 

'02 SEC west Champs...
'03 Stomped Texass in their own yard...would do the same to the weaker north
'06 SEC west
'07  If we beat Mizzou in the bowl then its safe to say dominance would occur

4 out of 6 years in the champ game if we are in the big 12...we are in the sec though, where teams dont get 70 hung on them in CONFERENCE CHAMP GAMES

[kuhog]

We wouldn't have much better results over the last ten years if would have played in the Big 12 north. We have been mediocre for so long now, it wouldn't matter what conference we were in. We would still have been mediocre. Stop with the "we would dominate" if we were in that conference division. If your average, you're average.

[NWASooner]

'02 SEC west Champs...

This was one of the years that the North bottomed out.  Colorado won, if I remember right. However, Arkansas was 7-5 with a loss to Minnesota in the Music City Bowl.  So, Arkansas could have won it in 2002.  That's one of the years along with 2006 you would have done well.

'03 Stomped Texass in their own yard...would do the same to the weaker north

You were 8-4.  Kansas State was 11-4 and beat OU in the conference title game.  You would have had a chance this year but probably would have lost to K-State.  (Kansas State played 15 games that year?  Geez.)

'06 SEC west

Arkansas wins the North hands down that year.

'07  If we beat Mizzou in the bowl then its safe to say dominance would occur

Not hardly.  You lost to a Bama team who lost to Florida State and ULM and you think you'd beat either Kansas or Missouri up there? 

So, basically we've come up with 2 years in the past 10 that Arkansas would have definitely won the Big 12 North.  Let's be generous and say 3 years.  Isn't that about the same number of times you've won the SEC West?

[Bama Hog™]

this has been brought up so many times that it has died of old age 27 times....good grief already give the big 12 talk a final resting place

I agree, let this thing die for the final time. WE ARE IN THE RIGHT CONFERENCE!

[woodhog14]

How many Big XII Championship football games would we have played in since leaving the SWC? How many BCS Bowl games would we have played in? Are we just not good enough to compete year in year out with the best teams of the SEC?

Geographically, we are more similar to the Big XII teams than the SEC teams. Did we make the wrong move in coming to the SEC? Thoughts on moving to the Big XII North?

Discuss among yourselves~

Stop it...please, just stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LZH]

I'll take 3-5 in the SECW over 5-3 in the Big12N any year.  At least at 6-6 (3-5), we still go bowling (maybe, but I'd still take it).  Give me middle-of-the-pack SEC over 'upper third' of the Big12.  Give me LSU and Auburn division games over Nebraska and Colorado (regardless who would win).  Are you kidding?  We'll have our own network in a couple of years, and I'll have something to watch in between 3-5 seasons (ha ha).  SEC > Big12.  Would you move from Chenal Valley to Bugtussle to make an extra 5-10K?  I wouldn't even consider it.

[Pa-Paw]

It seems like a SEC/B12 topic shows up on this board at least once a month, so that begs to ask the question why. It has been said that only old timers bring it up, but I think that may not be altogether true. I'll bet that it has more to do with where folks live. Those that live closer to the B12 media markets are going to be influenced towards the B12 and those closer to the SEC media markets are more inclined towards the SEC. Arkansas in a boarder state between two great conferences so there will always be a tug of war. There is no getting around that and this debate will go on forever, unfortunately ...J

[Duffer]

Duffer...have you ever been to a game in Manhatten? To say that it's not even a contest compared to Ole Miss or Mississippi State is not a very accurate statement. All three stadiums seat around 55-60 K and can get very rowdy. I'm just skeptical to compare strength of the SEC by using teams like Ole Miss, or Mississippi State.

actually I have.  Manhatten is an overgrown Arkansas State.  Aggieville after the game was kinda cool.

[davyedoc]

PaPaw,
Aggies are my first love, but the Hawgs are a close second.  In the TexAgs forum, this discussion line comes up frequently as well.  Truth is, we'd love to throw out Iowa State or Baylor and bring in Arkansas.  So for what it's worth, UofA is wanted should the powers that be ever make it happen.  Maybe the rekindling of the razorback rivalries of t.u. (Texas) and A&M in the next few years will push more to thinking this would be a good thing.

[levy]

UA would replace Baylor in the big xii south.  So it would be College Station, Austin, Lubbock, Norman and Stillwater every other year. 
btw Nebraska beat Peyton and Tennessee in the 1998 Fiesta Bowl, which capped off the 1997 National Championship.  So calm down Head Hawg!

[Pa-Paw]

PaPaw,
Aggies are my first love, but the Hawgs are a close second.  In the TexAgs forum, this discussion line comes up frequently as well.  Truth is, we'd love to throw out Iowa State or Baylor and bring in Arkansas.  So for what it's worth, UofA is wanted should the powers that be ever make it happen.  Maybe the rekindling of the razorback rivalries of t.u. (Texas) and A&M in the next few years will push more to thinking this would be a good thing.

As crazy as it sounds I frequent several B12 boards and sometimes post here, as well as the OU and Texas boards. I simply follow college ball in this region of the country in general. I simply don't see the powers in the B12 welcoming Arkansas back in anytime soon. That's not saying it won't happen, but it would really surprise me if it came to pass. All bets are off if Arkansas began to play Oklahoma to go along with their upcoming series with A&M and Texas

[stripes54]

Ark. is just a better fit in the SEC.  I feel that as the years go by the rivalry btw Ark. and LSU will build up to become part of a premiere
rivalries in college football. 

[JusPiggin]

when we play our SEC games its like a bowl game each and everytime we suit up  i love the SEC  its tuff  its big boy football  and we ran off the best coach  we will never ever replace his love for the UA and the players it doest matter who the coach is  hes going to have it even worse cause now  he be playing against nutt  in the SEC  from top to bottom  the SEC has the best players and great coaches   anyways GO HOGS GO

[ncrebel]

This is a stupid thread and should be trashed.  It makes us look like cowards for not wanting to compete in the SEC.  The only people who want us to go the the big 12 are NW Ark transplants who think they are in the midwest instead of the South or old timers who wish the SWC was still around so we could play Texas every year. 

[jburcka]

Playing in the Big XII has some advantages:

SEC West (avg distance 560 miles): Ole Miss: 400 miles, Mississippi St: 500 miles, Alabama: 550 miles, LSU: 620 miles, Auburn: 700 miles
SEC East (avg distance 800 miles): Vanderbilt: 530 miles, Tennessee: 700 miles, Kentucky: 700 miles, Georgia: 840 miles, South Carolina: 1000 miles, Florida: 1000 miles

Big XII North (avg distance 380 miles): Kansas: 280 miles, Kansas St: 350 miles, Mizzou: 350 miles, Nebraska: 440 miles, Iowa St: 470 miles
Big XII South (avg distance 450 miles): Oklahoma St: 200 miles, Oklahoma: 240 miles, Texas A&M: 520 miles, Texas: 540 miles, Baylor: 580 miles, Texas Tech: 600 miles

Being closer to schools in our conference would be better for fans (and the school) to travel.

More natural rivals... Football: Arkansas vs. Texas, Arkansas vs. Mizzou. Basketball: Arkansas vs. Kansas, Arkansas vs. Oklahoma St.

... This kinda makes since....

That said I love the SEC and would never want to leave because I have so much SEC pride.

[steve_2466]

It's my understanding that the Big 10 has always wanted Mizzou...for the tv exposure in St. Louis etc.  So if Arkansas were to ever be asked it would probably be not to replace Baylor but the Tigers.  So without the Tigers in the north the Hogs might very well have dominated this year too. 

[ncrebel]

Playing in the Big XII has some advantages:

SEC West (avg distance 560 miles): Ole Miss: 400 miles, Mississippi St: 500 miles, Alabama: 550 miles, LSU: 620 miles, Auburn: 700 miles
SEC East (avg distance 800 miles): Vanderbilt: 530 miles, Tennessee: 700 miles, Kentucky: 700 miles, Georgia: 840 miles, South Carolina: 1000 miles, Florida: 1000 miles

Big XII North (avg distance 380 miles): Kansas: 280 miles, Kansas St: 350 miles, Mizzou: 350 miles, Nebraska: 440 miles, Iowa St: 470 miles
Big XII South (avg distance 450 miles): Oklahoma St: 200 miles, Oklahoma: 240 miles, Texas A&M: 520 miles, Texas: 540 miles, Baylor: 580 miles, Texas Tech: 600 miles

Being closer to schools in our conference would be better for fans (and the school) to travel.

More natural rivals... Football: Arkansas vs. Texas, Arkansas vs. Mizzou. Basketball: Arkansas vs. Kansas, Arkansas vs. Oklahoma St.

... This kinda makes since....

That said I love the SEC and would never want to leave because I have so much SEC pride.

Driving distance from where? I'm assuming you calculated the miles between each campus.  Razorback fans are statewide.  Ask the hog fans in West Memphis if they would rather drive to Oxford or Colorado?  If all of the Razorback fans were in NW Ark then I would agree regarding driving distance.  You're forgetting the hogs are loved by everyone in the state.  I also disagree with the natural rivals.  Hog fans love playing against Tennessee, Alabama and LSU.

[Darren DeLoach]

I still chuckle at the original assertion that while Arkanas was losing to teams like Ole Miss and South Carolina that it would have "dominated" the Big 12 North.  The only year Arkansas would have "dominated" the North was last year.  It wouldn't have this year and wouldn't next year.

Those NFL numbers always make laugh, too.  According to them, the ACC is a better conference than either the Big 12 or the Big 10 and on par with the Pac-10.  Have you watched an ACC game in the past few years?

The SEC is a more fun conference but leave it at that.  It has it's great teams, it has it's good teams, and it has it's breathers.  I go back to something the Nutt haters always quote and that's that most of his wins come against the Mississippi schools.  If those two schools are that bad and Nutt is so awful, that's half the West.  The conference can't be THAT dominant if half the teams are bottom feeders.  (The East has Vandy, Kentucky, and South Carolina.  It's not that different, either.)

Let's have this conversation after the Cotton Bowl.  Let's see how you "dominate" Missouri.

whether we beat mizzou or not is irrelevant.

let me first state, i do not want to be in the big 12. we are in the right conference.

but what you are failing to grasp sooner, is that the texas recruiting lines arkansas enjoyed during it's southwest conference days would have provided arkansas with a continued influx of talent and would have allowed us to more smoothly transition to that conference.

when we joined the sec, it initially killed us in texas. texas moms and dads couldn't watch their son on t.v. or drive to houston, or waco, or austin and see their boy any longer.

but if we would have joined the big 12 at it's inception, those vital recruiting lifelines would have continued as is, at worst, or as i believe, the talent level would have increased due to the removed competition of tcu and houston.

so those down years where we struggled would not have occurred, or they would not have been as severe if we joined the big 12.

that being said, i am glad we are in the sec.

and hope we never leave, and believe with the right coach, we can win a couple of sec championships in the next 8 to 10 years.

[SpiritHog]

MOD...............Please pull this thread.  Its on Tiger Droppings that we are wanting to leave.  This thread is quoted.  I am ashamed.

[slowride]

Here's what I predict for the last 5 years if the Hogs were in the Big 12 North.

2007:  Hogs would not make it
2006:  Hogs don't make it
2005:  Hogs take Colorado's place but get pummelled by Texas
2004:  Hogs take Colorado's place then get rolled by OU.
2003:  Hogs don't make it

[Hornkiller]

It's time to once and for all admit why these posts come up every month. It makes us feel better about ourselves to go stick our toes on the Big XII boarder and thumb our nose at them about how great we would be over there. Of course it isn't like anyone over there notices. But it doesn't matter. It isn't so we can tell them how good we are, it's so we can tell ourselves how good we are.

Especially the "better to be 3-5 in the SEC than Big XII champ" trash. Why don't we say what we really mean: Arkansas is as good as Texas and Oklahoma and better than the rest of the Big XII. Oh we don't have the national titles they do, but we know were just as good. We'd have a national title if we played in the Big XII.

Never mind that Kansas State (who didn't qualify for a bowl game) gave Auburn a tough time like we did, in Auburn no less. Never mind that we lost to the same Bama team that lost to LMU that in got creamed by Texas A&M. We'd dominate the Big XII, and the Pac-10, the ACC, the Big East and Big 10 and every other conference. Well expect the one that we actually play in. Never mind we couldn't stay within 50 of USC.

And as Pa-Paw posted, the Big XII doesn't even want us. Every time I go to Texas or Oklahoma and bring it up they look at me like I just suggested Brittany Spears run for President of the United States. Besides do you really want to sit across the table from Baylor, Tech, A&M and Texas after the warm send off from the SWC we received? Think Oklahoma, Kansas and Colorado is going to stick up for the new guy?  I know it's hard to hear, but outside of a few old school Longhorn fans no one talks much about the Razorbacks over there, unless they're Razorback fans.

[SpiritHog]

MOD...............Please pull this thread.  Its on Tiger Droppings that we are wanting to leave.  This thread is quoted.  I am ashamed.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

[Bohawg]

lets join the sunbelt if thats your reasoning.  we wouldn't have had all the same recruits if we weren't in the Sec, so you can't compare what we have done to what we would maybe have done.  that was the last thing Frank got right was getting us in the Sec.

[Animal-374]

Kansas and Mo would each have a least one more loss

[jep_hog_fan]

Let it rest, too many $$$$$ in the SEC.

[HogK]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO how did this stupid thread get bumped to the top again.  We are in the SEC.  We love the SEC!  The SEC is all good!  The 3 or 4 posters who keep bringing this question up every 6 weeks, please...create your own board.

[slowride]

lets join the sunbelt if thats your reasoning.  we wouldn't have had all the same recruits if we weren't in the Sec, so you can't compare what we have done to what we would maybe have done.  that was the last thing Frank got right was getting us in the Sec.

I actually agree with this.  We are not able to consistently compete in the SEC.  Its just too good.  Unfortunately, like some have pointed out in this thread, we would fare no better in the Big 12.  If we want to win every year and possibly go undefeated, we need to be in the Sunbelt.  Maybe with an undefeated year or two we would be able to recruit enough blue chippers to be an elite team.

[NWASooner]

"We'd win the Big 12 because we'd have better recruits" is like saying "We'd win that conference if we had better players."  Nice argument.

There was only one Orange Bowl in 1998.  In that one game, Nebraska pushed TN around like a there were a bunch of 12 year olds.  There was a thread on here a few weeks ago that stated the old Nebraska offense wouldn't work in the SEC.  Thinking about the games Nebraska had against Florida and Tennesee made me laugh when reading that thread.

Most of the posters on this thread seem fairly realistic, though....

[txkrazorback]

How many Big XII Championship football games would we have played in since leaving the SWC? How many BCS Bowl games would we have played in? Are we just not good enough to compete year in year out with the best teams of the SEC?

Geographically, we are more similar to the Big XII teams than the SEC teams. Did we make the wrong move in coming to the SEC? Thoughts on moving to the Big XII North?

Discuss among yourselves~

Are we supposed to say "We've reached the highest and toughest Conference in college football; we're afraid; we need to go to something like the Baby 12!"

Please.... go home to waco...

[CORZRBACKFAN]

I always get a laugh out of these arguments for the Big XII. I understand the geography and natural rivalry aspect, but does anyone ever stop and think what fools we would look like if we left the best conference in America for the Big XII??? The foolishness is on the same level as a head coach who actually thinks he can build a dynasty at Ole Miss. As an alum and die-hard fan of a Big XII school (Colorado), I will tell you the Big XII is a joke. The Texans run the show, and they always will-as you may recall from the SWC, oil money tends to do that. The money, traditions, and towns of the SEC destroy the Big XII. Once you leave Boulder, Austin, Columbia, and Lawrence (even that one's a stretch), you have NOTHING! I'd visit any SEC town other than Starkville, but I would never waste my time (life's too short) going to the puke Big XII towns outside of the ones I listed. I grew up in Arkansas and will always be a Razorback fan, and I would disgusted if we ever left the SEC for the Big XII.