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Author Topic: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer  (Read 6299 times)

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checkraiser88

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Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« on: February 07, 2018, 08:28:11 pm »

I liked his attitude about looking at the stars and said we want guys that want to play!
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NuttinItUp

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 08:29:21 pm »

There are tons of guys that want to play that aren't very good.

Desire does not necessarily make a good athlete.
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hawg1221

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 08:31:13 pm »

I like the fact that he doesn't try to blow smoke up your rear.
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King Kong

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 08:32:29 pm »

Every coach will say that

I like CCM’s attitude but read any coaches presser outside of the top 10 in recruiting rankings and you will see a similar statement
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Tarheelhawg

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 08:46:54 pm »

Do yourself a favor.  Go and listen to the assistant coaches on Whole hog sports.  This class is v. good in terms of needs.  Forget about stars and think big picture.  Arkansas is better, thank goodness.  I  love this new staff!!! WPS!!!!
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TNRazorbacker

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 08:51:14 pm »

In other words... that subject isnt optimal, lets change it
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Bash

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 10:18:24 pm »

I liked his attitude about looking at the stars...

Sorry, had to smite you.  Feel free to smite me back.  We can count them as fist bumps between brah's.

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HogCzar1

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 10:37:09 pm »

At the end of the day the stars don’t determine individual success. But make no mistake, in order for CCM to have success in this league he will have to improve the talent level on this team, improve the size and speed at nearly every position, and get the team in supreme physical condition.

When you look at the recruiting success today around the league, coaching and conditioning will go only so far. You have to have enough raw physical talent to compete.

Next year’s class will go a long way in determining whether CCM can at least pull in enough talent to compete. That’s going to have to include some 4 and 5 star players.
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WBOBO

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 10:49:48 pm »

At the end of the day the stars don’t determine individual success. But make no mistake, in order for CCM to have success in this league he will have to improve the talent level on this team, improve the size and speed at nearly every position, and get the team in supreme physical condition.

When you look at the recruiting success today around the league, coaching and conditioning will go only so far. You have to have enough raw physical talent to compete.

Next year’s class will go a long way in determining whether CCM can at least pull in enough talent to compete. That’s going to have to include some 4 and 5 star players.
I guess heart and instinct can be completely thrown out the door.  I understand talent goes into that same equation, but blue collar workers that
have a no lose mentality, and carry a chip on their shoulder have always seemed to come out better.
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RockyMtnHog

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 10:52:16 pm »

4 and 5 star players can be duds too.  I think that is why the coaching staff does not recruit on stars.  They recruit on ability and talent.
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2018, 11:21:24 pm »

Do yourself a favor.  Go and listen to the assistant coaches on Whole hog sports.  This class is v. good in terms of needs.  Forget about stars and think big picture.  Arkansas is better, thank goodness.  I  love this new staff!!! WPS!!!!
right? we DEFINITELY arent last in coaching staff anymore.
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ICEman

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2018, 03:31:08 am »

4 and 5 star players can be duds too.  I think that is why the coaching staff does not recruit on stars.  They recruit on ability and talent.
Question? How does a kid warrant a 5* rating if not by ability and talent?
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flippinhogmana

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2018, 04:48:04 am »

Question? How does a kid warrant a 5* rating if not by ability and talent?

In a certain respect I dont have a dog in this hunt.  But I do want to see the football program return to a level of success at least equal to the best years of the past and beyond.  I like Morris so far.  I think he is taking steps in the right direction given the time he was hired and what he had to work with.  That aside - to your question.

Stars are awarded according to two main factors - measures, and performance against the level of competition.  However there are a lot of intangibles that go into performance at one level that may not and sometimes doesn't translate to performance at other levels.  I personally know of several high school All-Americans, and four and five star ratings in both basketball and football over my years who were complete flops in college.  All the players I am referring to were given full ride scholarship at major universities (including the UofA and Oklahoma to just name two).

You might have all the measurables, and you might have performance when the environment brings out the best in you - you are BMOC and you get all the emotional support that entails.  It bolsters that production at the high school level.  You are the toast of the campus and the town.  But you go to college and everyone you see at the 85 scholarship level are just as big and fast as you are in their relative positions.  Its the first time you have experienced that.  Now rather than just always having a superior talent and physical edge that you have used to dominant, you find out that you have to work your butt off to not get beat.

Believe it or not it tests you heart and will to be the best.  No more resting on your God given laurels and genetics.  You might even find some at your position who are willing to outwork you, and some who have more love of the game than you.  Some with marginally less ability might even out work you and out do you.  At this stage I have seen some 4 and 5 stars quit altogether, but mostly those who dont really succeed stick around but become marginal players who never live up to their potential.

Then on the other hand, some two or three stars that eventually make it a success in college or maybe even make it into the pros, might either develop physically late, or they just never quit working to improve themselves.  Believe it or not heart among near equals physically, makes a difference on the field. 

But I dont think you would be ever wise to think that a fully motivated, properly raised and disciplined five star isnt likely to have more success than a three star.  Most stars in the NFL were stars in grade school.  I will take all the five stars I can get, but not all of them are going to work out.  If I have slots open, I will take some three stars that fill the bill in other ways.  Sometimes they might just impress me, something is different about them, a hunger in their eyes or in the way they play or in how they work.  Bottom line, I am more than happy at this point with Morris work, and the players he recruited.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2018, 04:57:27 am »

4 and 5 star players can be duds too.  I think that is why the coaching staff does not recruit on stars.  They recruit on ability and talent.

I can guarantee you they will recruit the same 4/5 stars everyone else does. The questions is will he get them?

Coaches across CFB all do their own evaluations. It just so happen that the good players are also highly rated.

The key to CCM’s success will be convincing highly sought after players with legit commitable offers to play at Arkansas. He will have to do it consitentently every cycle to build the kind of quality depth to compete in the conference.

We’ll know with 2019 class what the CCM era is going to look like.
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OneTuskOverTheLine™

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2018, 04:57:53 am »

Every coach will say that

I like CCM’s attitude but read any coaches presser outside of the top 10 in recruiting rankings and you will see a similar statement

 What about the UT's of the world... All star no Fire...
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LJHOG

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2018, 09:09:21 am »

I'd say the say thing, if I was in his shoes.  But, this notion that you can coach up a bunch of 3* players and compete in the SEC is utter and complete nonsense.
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razorbackfaninar

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2018, 09:26:38 am »

I'd say the say thing, if I was in his shoes.  But, this notion that you can coach up a bunch of 3* players and compete in the SEC is utter and complete nonsense.

I agree with this to a degree.  Morris is going to have to find ways to win initially with the talent he has at hand, which isn't that bad. You can win games with slightly inferior talent, but you can't have the sustainable success to win championships.  The only way, without cheating, to get to the next level in recruiting is to win consistently. That has to start with winning games we should win, and being at least competitive against Alabama, Auburn, LSU etc.  It doesn't have to be a championship, but you have to win on a consistent basis to entice these highly recruited kids to come play for you.  I think you are seeing so much focus on the defense right now because has enough confidence in his offensive system and the players available to him on campus to be able to put up points right away, but he recognizes the defense need to be shorn up so that we can be competitive. 
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Richard Davenport

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2018, 10:39:48 am »

There are tons of guys that want to play that aren't very good.

Desire does not necessarily make a good athlete.

Probably need to tell him that.
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Con el Cerdos

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2018, 10:40:45 am »

I liked his attitude about looking at the stars and said we want guys that want to play!

This would be laughable if the plight of the Razorback football program wasn't so dire.

And, by-the-way, it's what coaches do when they are not satisfied with the class just signed.

Rest assured, this is not a criticism of the new coaching staff.  I know he's only been here a couple of months.  Morris just needs to come up something original.  This one has been beaten to death.
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Richard Davenport

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2018, 10:43:18 am »

Question? How does a kid warrant a 5* rating if not by ability and talent?

There's talent and ability to make plays but there's also the attitude that maximizes every ounce of talent vs a kid that has a tenancy to take short cuts.  A lesser talented kid can be a 4 or 5 because he's insane competitor.
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tbhogfan

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2018, 10:43:19 am »

I liked his attitude about looking at the stars and said we want guys that want to play!
That's pretty well what any coach is going to say. 

CBB, CBP, and HDN all said the same thing. 

I do look for a significantly better class next year.  The early signing day killed us, having just brought in a new staff nine days earlier.

I also look for a significantly higher number of signings next year, as some players realize that they are not a fit for the new system and leave.
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zebradynasty

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2018, 10:54:08 am »

You know what I've noticed...that coaches, fans, recruiters whose team don't have 5* and 4* recruits are the only ones that say stars don't matter!
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steveaustin69

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2018, 10:55:07 am »

There are tons of guys that want to play that aren't very good.

Desire does not necessarily make a good athlete.

This. Stars matter over a large sample size.

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steveaustin69

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2018, 10:55:57 am »

You know what I've noticed...that coaches, fans, recruiters whose team don't have 5* and 4* recruits are the only ones that say stars don't matter!

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Al Boarland

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2018, 11:02:43 am »

You know what I've noticed...that coaches, fans, recruiters whose team don't have 5* and 4* recruits are the only ones that say stars don't matter!

Ain’t that the truth. If you are falling back to “want to”, heart and whatever other feel-good intangible you can use to be at ease with your recruiting then you have a problem. At that point you have to convince yourself that your staff is some how head and shoulders above everyone else. That’s more of a hope and a prayer.
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hogfansince79

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2018, 11:04:54 am »

The only "service" I take any notice of is Tom Lemming.  In this morning's Gazette, it had his ratings along with the others...

1  ****+
4  ****
1  ***+
10 ***

That's 37.5% of the class rated ***+ or higher, or 31.25% of the class rated **** or higher. All done in 61 days.  Hell, that's pretty good.
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moto625

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2018, 11:12:10 am »

Of course he’s gonna laugh at stars when he is dead last! WPS
 Guarantee next year, If he lands a five star prospect that’s all we will hear about  ::hornsdown::
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onebadrubi

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2018, 11:16:31 am »

Question? How does a kid warrant a 5* rating if not by ability and talent?

There are definitely some good faith bumps because of whose offered and shown interest in you
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RAZ FAN

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2018, 11:20:59 am »

There's talent and ability to make plays but there's also the attitude that maximizes every ounce of talent vs a kid that has a tenancy to take short cuts.  A lesser talented kid can be a 4 or 5 because he's insane competitor.
As a father that just had a son finish his senior season. I have learned that star rating is only about 50-75% correct for a player. If a player has good/great ability and Plays the recruiting game he can earn a decent star rating. He has to have size and speed for his position but he can get a better star rating by attending certain camps and going to any school who contacts him to come to a camp/visit. Saying all this yes some players deserve 3-5star rating and maybe be a great college player, and if you sign all these type rating players you should have several pan out. But you may sign several that are not and they may possibly turn out to be a 5star for your program.
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2018, 11:28:49 am »

Don't you know
That you are a five-star, (don't you know, don't you know)
Don't you know that you are
A five-star
And all the coaches will love you
Just as long, as long as you are?
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steveaustin69

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2018, 11:29:11 am »

As a father that just had a son finish his senior season. I have learned that star rating is only about 50-75% correct for a player. If a player has good/great ability and Plays the recruiting game he can earn a decent star rating. He has to have size and speed for his position but he can get a better star rating by attending certain camps and going to any school who contacts him to come to a camp/visit. Saying all this yes some players deserve 3-5star rating and maybe be a great college player, and if you sign all these type rating players you should have several pan out. But you may sign several that are not and they may possibly turn out to be a 5star for your program.

Um, yeah.  So you want to play with the odds stacked in your favor, aka getting more four and fives and less threes.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2018, 11:32:28 am »

The only "service" I take any notice of is Tom Lemming.  In this morning's Gazette, it had his ratings along with the others...

1  ****+
4  ****
1  ***+
10 ***

That's 37.5% of the class rated ***+ or higher, or 31.25% of the class rated **** or higher. All done in 61 days.  Hell, that's pretty good.

In a vacuum, yes. Problem is our conference competition does better.

I think Morris did a good job for the position he was in, and I'm glad he was actively targeting some of our weaknesses.  I expect him to sign better rated players in the future.
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hawganatic

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2018, 11:55:07 am »

4 and 5 star players can be duds too.  I think that is why the coaching staff does not recruit on stars.  They recruit on ability and talent.

So do you really think that any coaching staff pulls up a recruiting service and sends offers out based on stars? 

All coaches recruit based on ability and talent.  There's nothing special about our staff doing the same.
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Hopeful Hog

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2018, 11:59:53 am »

At the end of the day the stars don’t determine individual success. But make no mistake, in order for CCM to have success in this league he will have to improve the talent level on this team, improve the size and speed at nearly every position, and get the team in supreme physical condition.

When you look at the recruiting success today around the league, coaching and conditioning will go only so far. You have to have enough raw physical talent to compete.

Next year’s class will go a long way in determining whether CCM can at least pull in enough talent to compete. That’s going to have to include some 4 and 5 star players.

This
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hogfansince79

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2018, 12:05:06 pm »

In a vacuum, yes. Problem is our conference competition does better.

I think Morris did a good job for the position he was in, and I'm glad he was actively targeting some of our weaknesses.  I expect him to sign better rated players in the future.

I think he will.

I just like to keep things in perspective.  If you go to the link below, and use the same formula as I did above (31.25% - **** and above)... the hogs would have placed #21 ahead of Michigan (with Stanford being the only exception in my short research).  Also, I couldn't view Lemmings rankings (pay site) to compare, so I had to use 247's site vs Lemmings rankings.

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

My point is, it's not near as bad as it might seem.  Actually, it's pretty good.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 12:16:27 pm by hogfansince79 »
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varrichione

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2018, 12:06:57 pm »

I wonder if in Alabama, seven consecutive years of the top recruiting class and repeatedly playing in the NC Game, fans ever say, "Why does Saban keep signing these highly rated players?  Why doesn't he just sign players who are gamers? I want more 3-star players!"
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Hopeful Hog

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2018, 12:07:53 pm »

So do you really think that any coaching staff pulls up a recruiting service and sends offers out based on stars? 

All coaches recruit based on ability and talent.  There's nothing special about our staff doing the same.

Exactly. I like what our staff has done with some serious limitations but these same people who are saying stars don't matter will be the first to scream about a 4 or 5 star kid next year. They just want their cake and eat it too smh.
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Hopeful Hog

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2018, 12:09:26 pm »

I wonder if in Alabama, seven consecutive years of the top recruiting class and repeatedly playing in the NC Game, fans ever say, "Why does Saban keep signing these highly rated players?  Why doesn't he just sign players who are gamers? I want more 3-star players!"

Right? What he really needs is some 3* kids with heart, determination, and a chip on their shoulder. Then he'd finally have a good team.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2018, 12:16:51 pm »

I think he will.

I just like to keep things in perspective.  If you go to the link below, and use the same formula as I did above (31.25% - **** and above)... the hogs would have placed #21 ahead of Michigan (with Stanford being the only exception in my short research).  Also, I couldn't view Lemmings rankings (pay site) to compare, so I had to use 247's site.

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

My point is, it's not near as bad as it might seem.  Actually, it's pretty good.

Which is still 10th in our conference.

Agree it's not as bad as it seems, but it's not necessarily good.

Having said that, he's given me no reason to doubt his ability to improve our recruiting.
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hogfansince79

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2018, 12:22:30 pm »

Which is still 10th in our conference.

Well 9th, but I get your point... but for the coaching change (61 days), that's pretty good.  Next years class will be the one to watch.
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steveaustin69

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2018, 12:23:45 pm »

Well 9th, but I get your point... but for the coaching change (61 days), that's pretty good.  Next years class will be the one to watch.

You're right; can't count. He's got myself and the fan base excited again, and that's all you can ask in this stage of the game.
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hogfansince79

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2018, 12:24:47 pm »

You're right; can't count. He's got myself and the fan base excited again, and that's all you can ask in this stage of the game.

Agreed.  WPS!
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depressed_fan

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2018, 12:28:26 pm »

The only "service" I take any notice of is Tom Lemming.  In this morning's Gazette, it had his ratings along with the others...

1  ****+
4  ****
1  ***+
10 ***

That's 37.5% of the class rated ***+ or higher, or 31.25% of the class rated **** or higher. All done in 61 days.  Hell, that's pretty good.

The only service anyone cares about is whichever one has their team rated the highest. B/c that's always the best one. Each year it might be different. If we could of signed 50 and got the most stars of anyone but they were mostly all 2 stars, that would have a been the best service for the year, b/c out of all them 2 stars some would grow in to 5 stars right.

The funny thing is, every year someone on these forums will say something to the effect of such and such service is really the only one that matters. It's always the one that sheds the best light on their program....

It's funny the amount of worry some fans put in to these programs. We are about the level as Kentucky in football and always will be. It don't matter who the coach is.
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Deep Shoat

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2018, 12:29:29 pm »

If y’all think Arkansas will ever consistently recruit at a top third of the SEC level, disappointment is guaranteed. 

Well, without cheating like OM.
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Hopeful Hog

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2018, 12:31:56 pm »

The only service anyone cares about is whichever one has their team rated the highest. B/c that's always the best one. Each year it might be different. If we could of signed 50 and got the most stars of anyone but they were mostly all 2 stars, that would have a been the best service for the year, b/c out of all them 2 stars some would grow in to 5 stars right.

The funny thing is, every year someone on these forums will say something to the effect of such and such service is really the only one that matters. It's always the one that sheds the best light on their program....

It's funny the amount of worry some fans put in to these programs. We are about the level as Kentucky in football and always will be. It don't matter who the coach is.

Dude you need Jesus.
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ricepig

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2018, 12:32:04 pm »

Which is still 10th in our conference.

Agree it's not as bad as it seems, but it's not necessarily good.

Having said that, he's given me no reason to doubt his ability to improve our recruiting.

I'll go out on the proverbial limb and say that in the next 5 years we won't finish above 8th in the conference in recruiting rankings. I think we'll have some decent success in the field, at least one season with 9-10 wins, but recruiting will stay where it historically lays.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2018, 12:33:01 pm »

I wonder if in Alabama, seven consecutive years of the top recruiting class and repeatedly playing in the NC Game, fans ever say, "Why does Saban keep signing these highly rated players?  Why doesn't he just sign players who are gamers? I want more 3-star players!"

Lol. You’ll get bashed for this, but +1
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OneTuskOverTheLine™

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2018, 12:34:57 pm »

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Hopeful Hog

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Re: Morris basically laughed at the notion of star gazer
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2018, 12:36:34 pm »

I'll go out on the proverbial limb and say that in the next 5 years we won't finish above 8th in the conference in recruiting rankings. I think we'll have some decent success in the field, at least one season with 9-10 wins, but recruiting will stay where it historically lays.

Gross!! Don't say that my man, it's depressing. If we're not consistently winning 9 to 10 games in the next 5 years I'm done supporting this program. I've got more important things I can be doing with my life than blindly supporting a mediocre program.
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OneTuskOverTheLine™

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