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Author Topic: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins  (Read 4827 times)

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hogsanity

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #150 on: February 05, 2018, 11:53:48 am »

Improved 3 point shooting has hurt this style as well.

Yep, seems like just about everyone can knock down a 3.
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mizzouman

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #151 on: February 05, 2018, 12:14:39 pm »

The number of team timeouts reduce from 5 to 4 a couple years ago.  Not sure about when the media timeouts changed but I think they have been the same for at least 20-25 years.  The first dead ball after 16 minutes, 12 minutes, 8 minutes and 4 minutes.  It's a BS excuse for fans about Anderson's style of play. 
It's not 4 per half.  It's 4 per game.  You get one use it or lose it TO in the first half.  Basically reduced the number of TO's by one.

Plus all the reviews they do, etc., and players being in better shape.  I don't think kids get as worn down as they used to.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #152 on: February 05, 2018, 12:24:13 pm »

This is not intended to be player bashing, and I'm directing it toward Mike and the staff. 

When Jones guards on the perimeter, WHAT in the heck is he doing?  He literally guards BESIDE the dribbler, and is in absolutely no way actually in front of him making any effort to impede him from going right to the basket.  Is there some technique that I'm unaware of where you coach your team to guard BESIDE the man with the ball? 

I've NEVER seen anything like that, other than some select situations where you shade the dribbler to a particular area to make your defense more effective.  When he does that...the dribbler literally looks puzzled for a second as if they're thinking..."What is he doing?  Why does he not want me to dribble to my left?  Does he know something I don't know?" 

Seriously...how can MA and the staff not see that and ask him WTH he is doing?  He's basically taking himself out of the play completely with ONE dribble by the ball handler.  It's comedy gold. 
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Smalltownhog95

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #153 on: February 05, 2018, 12:44:10 pm »

Im late to the discussion. Did FCJ get hacked or am i still hungover from the Super Bowl?
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Paul

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #154 on: February 05, 2018, 01:13:55 pm »

Agreed. If the scheme is wrong all the effort in the world isn't going to change that.
FIFY
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hogsanity

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #155 on: February 05, 2018, 01:57:43 pm »

Im late to the discussion. Did FCJ get hacked or am i still hungover from the Super Bowl?

No, he posted after the lsu debacle that he would not stand for no defense and no wins, then proceeded to say Mike is still awesome and not to blame. Instead he threw the players under the bus.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #156 on: February 05, 2018, 02:21:58 pm »

No, he posted after the lsu debacle that he would not stand for no defense and no wins, then proceeded to say Mike is still awesome and not to blame. Instead he threw the players under the bus.

Welp, that pretty well summed it up.   ;D

I just heard Bo on the radio, didn't turn it after Grant's show fast enough, and he said that the last 8 opponents have shot better than their season average from 3 versus the Hogs.  I didn't get to hear, but assuming a few shot season highs. 

At any rate, that's a trend...not coincidence.  We're a step too far back, and react late when we do have a chance to defend.  Otherwise, we just get lost and they're out there chrocheting a sweater from the time they catch until they shoot. 

For me, what frustrates me is that we KNOW what HAS to happen for MA's teams to be successful, and they aren't doing it.  It's hard enough watching a team that more or less ignores the basic fundamentals of basketball in favor of a "system," but I'm used to that at this point and can usually tolerate it.  But...what they're doing has ZERO chance in MA's system. 

Barford and Macon, at times, gave the effort at trying to deny their PG and play him tight.  It's hard to fault them for getting beat at times, because he's just much quicker.  THAT effort needs to be played by every player, the entire game.  THings would e different if they did. 
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mckinneyhog5

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #157 on: February 05, 2018, 03:01:27 pm »

Mike is a "life coach" not a basketball coach. Ask yourself this question..Has MA ever exceeded expectations while coach here at Arkansas? And don't start with me bout unrealistic expectations. I have watched his entire seven years here and trust me my expectations are pretty low by now. I'll say this he has next year to exceed them with freshman or he is out of the door.
Use the normal performance scale and go back 7 years and grade him yourself.
5-Exceeds Expectations consistently
4-Meets or exceeds expectations often
3-Meets expectations regularly
2-Meets expectations sometimes
1-Does not meet expectations
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #158 on: February 05, 2018, 03:50:06 pm »

For MA's system to work, if it can even work in today's college environment, it will REQUIRE having at least 10 guys who are willing to go flat out until their tongues are hanging out, playing defense in the opposition's jersey.  It can't work without that.  Even with that...gone are the days of Beck and others literally steering players where they wanted them to go with hand checks, and gone are the days of trapping so close that our players could tell you what the opposition had for lunch.  The hand check rule, and the "cylinder" rule have really hampered that "style" of play that Nolan basically invented.   

I think a HUGE issue right now is that even if our "second five" played defense with 100% intensity, they can't score.  We could get 5 stops, and not score a point on the other end.  Even if the defense was spectacular, does it really matter if you can't capitalize on it? 

We have two very good players on our team, one that will be good....and others that wouldn't start for other teams in the SEC.  Does anyone feel differently about that? 

Again...that's on MA.  We've dug out past the dark years following Nolan.  Fans are showing up, and we're getting some national pub...well, we were.  There's no excuses anymore after this season.  He's got to be gone in 2020 if we're not seeing improvement, or otherwise to me, it just says the UA doesn't care about basketball.  What else can we glean from that? 
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cram224

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #159 on: February 06, 2018, 09:49:16 am »

Everybody talks about Mike's system. Please explain to me what is his system, both offense and defense. I've read were it takes time to understand so please help me with the basics of MA's system.
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PygmalionEffect2

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #160 on: February 06, 2018, 12:26:07 pm »

They let the player get set - once that happens you're done, they can't close fast enough to affect the shot. They've got to make it harder for these guys to get to their spot, fight to keep them from getting the clean pass. We play horrible off the ball defense and have a terrible time anticipating where the pass is going.
Just all around bad court awareness.

Good post
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #161 on: February 06, 2018, 12:30:02 pm »

Everybody talks about Mike's system. Please explain to me what is his system, both offense and defense. I've read were it takes time to understand so please help me with the basics of MA's system.

I had this first paragraph as a summation...but I cut it and moved it up top.   :D

In a nutshell...MA believes that his teams can use depth to wear the opponent down with constant pressure on both ends of the court.  That requires full commitment from an energy standpoint, and probably our biggest issue right now is...even if we fielded our best defenders on the "second team" that comes in, what good would it to do to get 3 stops or turnovers in a row if we can't score at all on the other end of the court?  There's just too much of a talent drop off for the system to be effective, so in some respects....it's actually working in reverse, because Macon and Barford are asked to expend maximum energy on defense, and they play WAY more minutes than they would have in the past, and it's simply because without them out there...WE CANNOT SCORE. 

The longer winded explanation...and others will likely disagree. 

Hehe...  I'll give my take, but it won't be popular.   :)    It started with Nolan, and his thoughts that he could take average talent and have them play a style that can make a team collectively better than the sum of its parts.  It's almost like playing ball control in football, hoping you can overcome a talent deficiency, make less mistakes, and win games against teams with more talent.  Only in this system...it's "I've got 12 guys willing to die on the court, so good luck keeping up.  You may be better 1-5, but we'll out work you with our 1-12."   

The idea is that you get 10 guys who are willing to run harder, play tougher defense, and wear the other team out.  The focus isn't on the halfcourt, so rebounding isn't emphasized as much as getting the ball in play quickly following made buckets, and getting it down the court quickly so you can slash and score quickly before the defense can get settled in.  Spot up threes...quick cuts, etc.  It's about making buckets and setting up the presss to make them work for every inch of the court...wearing them down little by little physically, and mentally. 

On defense, the goal is to constantly nag the opponent, frustrate them, and literally get them to the point that they don't want the ball in their hands.  It's based on pressure, and steals.  So....if you're getting more defensive turnovers and stops through pure effort, you can use that to your advantage.   

When you run down court, set up, and run set plays...you have to have at least similar talent to have much chance, because now it's a game of talent vs talent.  When you change the game, and force quick decisions through relentless pressure on defense that leads to turnovers, and you use a quick moving offense to provide open shots...you are using energy expended against the opponent. 

The other reason the "system" doesn't work great right now is...we don't have a true PG than can beat people down the court, and create shots for other guys.  We also don't have guys that are in the opponents jerseys on defense, like we had in the past.  Part of that is the rule change, because guys like Corey Beck made a living by literally steering opposing guards where he wanted them to go by a constant hand check on their hip...they couldn't go around him...no space.  Add to that this new "cylinder rule" and the double team traps on the perimeter that worked amazingly well with long dudes like Todd Day out on the perimeter don't work...they're fouls...and it's taking away chances for the "system" to be effective.   

The bottom line is this...longer TV timeouts that allow for more rest, and rule changes, have negatively impacted MA's system, and by default, Nolan's system.  We used to LIVE on the opposition getting winded, and us going on 10 point runs.  Those are rare now. 

IMO the reason the 94 and 95 teams were great, was because of the player mix and talent level, moreso than the "system."  That may not be popular with the Nolanites, but regardless...he brought the talent in, and got them to play together, so it's still 100% his result in my mind.  But....maybe not for the reason some think.  They had the ability to adapt and play half court offense, because Corliss could own the paint and was a constant threat to score and rebound.  We could play either style, which made us lethal. 

And again....TALENT.  Those teams had talent that was on par with anyone else.  We simply DO NOT have that right now.  I still think that style of play can work, but not without more talent than what we can field now 1-5, much less 6-10.   
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #162 on: February 06, 2018, 12:37:38 pm »

They let the player get set - once that happens you're done, they can't close fast enough to affect the shot. They've got to make it harder for these guys to get to their spot, fight to keep them from getting the clean pass. We play horrible off the ball defense and have a terrible time anticipating where the pass is going.
Just all around bad court awareness.

Great post.  At some point in the second half, MA had Macon and Barford taking turns defending, and trying to deny their PG the ball...can't remember his name, despite his TORCHING us...go figure. 

At any rate, THAT DEFENSE IS HOW WE USED TO PLAY THE ENTIRE GAME, ACROSS THE BOARD.  We just can't do that now, because we don't have the depth.  Maybe there are five really good defenders he could run out there, but without Macon and Barford we can't score.

That's why it's absolutely true that our defensive intensity isn't what it used to be, but how can Bacon and Barford play that style, but be expected not to tire?  They have to be on the court for us to have a prayer.  That's why I'm not hammering Mike for some things.  I'll never understand other things...switching on screens and not switching back, defensive rebounding, trapping when it's not working, not fronting dribblers...and allowing guys to stand around on offense...but that's really smaller details versus the bigger picture, which is in some ways...our system is hurting us, because of Macon and Barford needing to be on the court at all times.

These aren't excuses for Mike.  I think that's what's happening.  It's still on his shoulders to either develop the player we have, or bring in a higher level of talent.  Period.  Nolan found a way to do it...now he has to.     
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ChicoHog

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #163 on: February 06, 2018, 05:03:23 pm »

Great posts smalls.  I would add that Richardson and now probably Anderson does not spend time scouting the opponent.  That is not smart in today's game with all the technology we have.  I guarantee our opponents are watching film on us. Notice how Gafford is less a factor than earlier in the year?  Because teams have watched film and know how to defend him. 

And there is no reason that you can't play fast and still box out on rebounds.  We give up way too many offensive rebounds over and over again. 
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jvanhorn

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #164 on: February 06, 2018, 05:19:57 pm »

The truth is as long as Van Horn is the coach Arkansas will be a NATIONAL force to be reckoned with in baseball.  He is, by far, the best coach up there.  A sure hall of famer for sure.  The rest of the programs?  Well, basically, you can just hope you win more than you lose.  If Arkansas was a baseball state we would be HUGE.  The fact that we are not is ok with me.  I can still get good tickets, lol.
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cram224

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #165 on: February 06, 2018, 05:24:35 pm »

I agree that Macon and Barford have to be on the court for us to score. However is Beard not a good on the ball defender? If not what is his role that he is good at. Seems like one of the guards needs to come off the bench and go back to a 2 guard and 2 forwards starting lineup.
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hawgmasta

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Re: I can not and will not defend this.no defense,no wins
« Reply #166 on: February 06, 2018, 05:41:29 pm »

I had this first paragraph as a summation...but I cut it and moved it up top.   :D

In a nutshell...MA believes that his teams can use depth to wear the opponent down with constant pressure on both ends of the court.  That requires full commitment from an energy standpoint, and probably our biggest issue right now is...even if we fielded our best defenders on the "second team" that comes in, what good would it to do to get 3 stops or turnovers in a row if we can't score at all on the other end of the court?  There's just too much of a talent drop off for the system to be effective, so in some respects....it's actually working in reverse, because Macon and Barford are asked to expend maximum energy on defense, and they play WAY more minutes than they would have in the past, and it's simply because without them out there...WE CANNOT SCORE. 

The longer winded explanation...and others will likely disagree. 

Hehe...  I'll give my take, but it won't be popular.   :)    It started with Nolan, and his thoughts that he could take average talent and have them play a style that can make a team collectively better than the sum of its parts.  It's almost like playing ball control in football, hoping you can overcome a talent deficiency, make less mistakes, and win games against teams with more talent.  Only in this system...it's "I've got 12 guys willing to die on the court, so good luck keeping up.  You may be better 1-5, but we'll out work you with our 1-12."   

The idea is that you get 10 guys who are willing to run harder, play tougher defense, and wear the other team out.  The focus isn't on the halfcourt, so rebounding isn't emphasized as much as getting the ball in play quickly following made buckets, and getting it down the court quickly so you can slash and score quickly before the defense can get settled in.  Spot up threes...quick cuts, etc.  It's about making buckets and setting up the presss to make them work for every inch of the court...wearing them down little by little physically, and mentally. 

On defense, the goal is to constantly nag the opponent, frustrate them, and literally get them to the point that they don't want the ball in their hands.  It's based on pressure, and steals.  So....if you're getting more defensive turnovers and stops through pure effort, you can use that to your advantage.   

When you run down court, set up, and run set plays...you have to have at least similar talent to have much chance, because now it's a game of talent vs talent.  When you change the game, and force quick decisions through relentless pressure on defense that leads to turnovers, and you use a quick moving offense to provide open shots...you are using energy expended against the opponent. 

The other reason the "system" doesn't work great right now is...we don't have a true PG than can beat people down the court, and create shots for other guys.  We also don't have guys that are in the opponents jerseys on defense, like we had in the past.  Part of that is the rule change, because guys like Corey Beck made a living by literally steering opposing guards where he wanted them to go by a constant hand check on their hip...they couldn't go around him...no space.  Add to that this new "cylinder rule" and the double team traps on the perimeter that worked amazingly well with long dudes like Todd Day out on the perimeter don't work...they're fouls...and it's taking away chances for the "system" to be effective.   

The bottom line is this...longer TV timeouts that allow for more rest, and rule changes, have negatively impacted MA's system, and by default, Nolan's system.  We used to LIVE on the opposition getting winded, and us going on 10 point runs.  Those are rare now. 

IMO the reason the 94 and 95 teams were great, was because of the player mix and talent level, moreso than the "system."  That may not be popular with the Nolanites, but regardless...he brought the talent in, and got them to play together, so it's still 100% his result in my mind.  But....maybe not for the reason some think.  They had the ability to adapt and play half court offense, because Corliss could own the paint and was a constant threat to score and rebound.  We could play either style, which made us lethal. 

And again....TALENT.  Those teams had talent that was on par with anyone else.  We simply DO NOT have that right now.  I still think that style of play can work, but not without more talent than what we can field now 1-5, much less 6-10.   

Great post. As others have pointed out the average college player now is more athletic and has better information on training, diet, basically how to better take care of themselves than 30 years ago. Which in turn makes it harder for us to wear them down. Players also practice shooting a lot more so a lot of teams have guys that can drain the wide open threes with ease.
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