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Author Topic: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball  (Read 1557 times)

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draftkings33

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2018, 01:54:17 pm »

In Arkansas they have a statewide clinic that all level 3 & 2 guys are supposed to go to every year, and level 1 every other yr.  But that clinic is going over new rules or rule changes, and some general stuff, not any on court action. If you want to move up and get better games or playoffs, then you go to actual hand on clinics during the summer. Sometimes these are held in conjunction with hs bball camps, and the refs work the games at these camps.

Honestly, I do not hear a ton of things yelled, and the weird part is the bigger the crowd the less I hear ( more like just a dull murmur in those ). It does seem that fans have a collection of things they yell, and it never changes game to game or gym to gym. Sometimes, if a school has 4 or 5 games in a night or we are working a tourney, we will have 2 crews there so you get to sit and just listen sometimes. " Look at the foul count, no way that's fair " " gotta call it both ways " " 3 seconds " " get em off him/her " and my two all time favorite " OVER THE BACK !!!!!! " & " what do you expect from the home guys ".  The last one is funny because it is likely none of us are from anywhere near that town. In the last 10 days I have been in 7 different gyms and none was closer than 40 minutes to where I live. I had a game in December that I had to google because even though I have lived in Ar my whole life, I had never heard of it.
Ha over the back is a dandy.  No mom your kid just can't jump
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Jim Harris

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2018, 02:03:04 pm »

please tell the coaches to stop screaming for it to be called a walk, been listening to that bs all year.

please get the palming-the-basketball out of the game. If you start calling it, I'm sure it will spread.
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Dropkick

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2018, 02:11:24 pm »

I think a lot of the problems stem from inconsistency from one end of the court to the other. Something called a foul on one end isn't called at the other. I guess when you have 3 officials you have 3 different definitions of what constitutes a foul. Doesn't help that the crews don't call together all the time. A ref may show up and call with 2 others he has little or no familiarity with. At least that is the way it is in NEA.
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hogsanity

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2018, 02:16:07 pm »

I think a lot of the problems stem from inconsistency from one end of the court to the other. Something called a foul on one end isn't called at the other. I guess when you have 3 officials you have 3 different definitions of what constitutes a foul. Doesn't help that the crews don't call together all the time. A ref may show up and call with 2 others he has little or no familiarity with. At least that is the way it is in NEA.

I have said that here before. I may be trail on one end and lead on the other for a trip or two, then the guy who was at C is no on the lead and the guy who was trail is not in C, etc. It's 3 guys with 3 different ideas of what is allowable contact and what is not.

please get the palming-the-basketball out of the game. If you start calling it, I'm sure it will spread.

A ref that starts calling that by the book won't last long, it has become too widely accepted.

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draftkings33

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2018, 02:42:32 pm »

please get the palming-the-basketball out of the game. If you start calling it, I'm sure it will spread.
You have to be over 50 years old
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hawgfan4life

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2018, 04:13:47 pm »

I would say that the level of ability and professionalism of coaches and officials is proportionally the same.  There are a lot of idiots on the sidelines and between the lines.  There are also a lot of quality individuals that are professionals in their craft in both locations.  I don't think either side has room to brag nor gloat.  I will say this about each of these groups.  Coaches in high school aren't making money like college coaches and they don't have buy out clauses.  There are a handful of coaches of high school programs that make a tremendous amount of money, but most head coaches and almost all assistant coaches are not making very much for the time away from their families.  Yelling at the coach and demanding perfection from a high school and junior high coach is just asinine.  While some aren't great coaches, they aren't getting paid like great coaches and I never met a coach from pee-wee to pros that intentionally made coaching decisions that they believed weren't in the best interest of winning, building a program, or teaching character to a young person in need of a lesson.  The exceptions are a small percentage that build grudges against a parent or player and they let it impact how they deal with the athlete.  That is the human side of coaching, but it remains a small percentage.  Yelling at an official has never made one call the game better that I have witnessed.  Sometimes it gets them to make a few calls we would call make-up calls or to even them up a little, but I would argue that isn't better officiating.  There are a few officials that simply don't care enough to be good and they simply are drawing a check.  There are officials that form a dislike for a coach and/or a player and they let it impact their officiating.  However, those truly are rare and the fact is most officials (good or bad) are trying to do a good job.  Can't say I have known any officials that intentionally call a game poorly so that they can be ridiculed by fans and coaches.  I will say I have been to few sporting arenas in recent years where I didn't witness fans acting like jack-wagons about things that aren't even the rules for that level of play.  Our demeanor and acceptance of behavior as a society at sporting events has diminished greatly while we hold the expectations for officials and coaches much higher. 
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Dropkick

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2018, 04:27:10 pm »

I would say that the level of ability and professionalism of coaches and officials is proportionally the same.  There are a lot of idiots on the sidelines and between the lines.  There are also a lot of quality individuals that are professionals in their craft in both locations.  I don't think either side has room to brag nor gloat.  I will say this about each of these groups.  Coaches in high school aren't making money like college coaches and they don't have buy out clauses.  There are a handful of coaches of high school programs that make a tremendous amount of money, but most head coaches and almost all assistant coaches are not making very much for the time away from their families.  Yelling at the coach and demanding perfection from a high school and junior high coach is just asinine.  While some aren't great coaches, they aren't getting paid like great coaches and I never met a coach from pee-wee to pros that intentionally made coaching decisions that they believed weren't in the best interest of winning, building a program, or teaching character to a young person in need of a lesson.  The exceptions are a small percentage that build grudges against a parent or player and they let it impact how they deal with the athlete.  That is the human side of coaching, but it remains a small percentage.  Yelling at an official has never made one call the game better that I have witnessed.  Sometimes it gets them to make a few calls we would call make-up calls or to even them up a little, but I would argue that isn't better officiating.  There are a few officials that simply don't care enough to be good and they simply are drawing a check.  There are officials that form a dislike for a coach and/or a player and they let it impact their officiating.  However, those truly are rare and the fact is most officials (good or bad) are trying to do a good job.  Can't say I have known any officials that intentionally call a game poorly so that they can be ridiculed by fans and coaches.  I will say I have been to few sporting arenas in recent years where I didn't witness fans acting like jack-wagons about things that aren't even the rules for that level of play.  Our demeanor and acceptance of behavior as a society at sporting events has diminished greatly while we hold the expectations for officials and coaches much higher. 
This is not rare in this area.
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warriorlion

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2018, 07:06:08 pm »

How about the opinion of a guy that coached basketball for 23 years and called high school baseball for about the same: be consistent-if it a foul in the first half, call it the last two minutes,  communicate with the players and coaches--exception: if player or coach shows their rear then stick them.  Go to clinics and work to get better every game.  I called baseball cause I enjoyed it but knew that the job I did could have an effect on another guys job so I tried to work at it and get the call right to the best of my ability.  And when you blow a call admit it and forget it, you can't be an official who is always trying to even out their mistakes. Study the rule book and case book--sooner or later something really wild will happen that happens once every blue moon and a serious official will know the correct ruling.  Finally, find a group of guys you enjoy working with that all take it seriously and strive to be the best officials they can be and work with them so you know what each other are going to do and you trust each other and don't get pissed when they help each other get the call correct!
For those of you that like to sit and scream at officials or bitch about the coaches, schools everywhere need both so prove your intelligence and keen eyesight and coach or officiate a while.  I know some not great officials and some coaches who I didn't think we're real good but they did it cause they enjoy the sport or enjoy being around kids, not for the millions we make as high school coaches and officials.
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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2018, 08:24:20 pm »

Man it's amazing to me how many coaches don't actually know the rules, especially the young coaches.  All the young coaches know to do is yell at the refs and scream at their kids.  It's a shame that young coaches are not being groomed very well before they get a head job..

The more you see a coach yelling at his players the worst job he's done in practice. Lots of people coaching for the wrong reasons that should not be coaching kids. I enjoyed my time officiating but have some real stories from Northwest Arkansas. Small towns are much worse they have more community pride and are much more intense at the games.

Officiating is terrible and getting worse. Need more young refs but the money is not enough to put up with the abuse from coaches and fans. Hard for young people to learn under the type pressure you see in high schools these days.
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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2018, 08:29:11 pm »

You have to be over 50 years old

Not sure where he watches bball that he sees a lot of palming violations. Just not something that happens very often in the games I watch.
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WillsWorld

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2018, 08:59:57 pm »

I've been officiating for 2 yrs now and i would like to get some veteran officials opinion.

You're already a better ref than any ref that's called an Arkansas game this season.
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Smalltownhog95

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2018, 09:09:04 pm »

How's the crowds at Wonderview?
Used to watch them back in the late 80s/early 90s and they had some solid teams (still do from what I hear.) And they packed the house.
I used to play against wonderview in high school nearly every year. We actually beat them at home in 2014 the year they were state runner up and we made it to semi's. It was actually one of my favorite places to go on the road and play because they always had great teams and it was alot of fun hearing our fans jawwing at each other in a close game. Have alot of respect for them down there.
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hogsanity

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2018, 10:20:09 pm »

This is not rare in this area.

Do you even know how much Ar school refs get paid? Believe me, anyone that is in it for the money is just crazy.
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draftkings33

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2018, 10:14:47 am »

The more you see a coach yelling at his players the worst job he's done in practice. Lots of people coaching for the wrong reasons that should not be coaching kids. I enjoyed my time officiating but have some real stories from Northwest Arkansas. Small towns are much worse they have more community pride and are much more intense at the games.

Officiating is terrible and getting worse. Need more young refs but the money is not enough to put up with the abuse from coaches and fans. Hard for young people to learn under the type pressure you see in high schools these days.
This is so true.  Girls coaches seem to be the worst at yelling at the players.  I see it a lot especially small towns.  ANd you are right there are a lot of people coaching kids that have no business.
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jcul28

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2018, 12:15:55 pm »

I go to multiple high school basketball games a week. The officiating is terrible.
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hogsanity

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2018, 12:25:53 pm »

I go to multiple high school basketball games a week. The officiating is terrible.

Well, do something about it other than griping. Seems like the only "answer" anyone comes up with is " We need to get alot of these guys out officiating because they are so bad ". Well, as pointed out, there is a shortage of refs already, so yea lets get rid of some of the guys who actually do the job ( no matter how you think they do the job ).
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Tweeter

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2018, 12:29:29 pm »

nm
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Tweeter

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2018, 12:31:02 pm »

I go to multiple high school basketball games a week. The officiating is terrible.

Go get a whistle and license and start reffing.
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hogsanity

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2018, 12:42:31 pm »

Go get a whistle and license and start reffing.

Most of these guys would wet themselves the 1st time they had to make a block charge call, or if they were doing football, the 1st time they had a pass play coming at them at backjudge in the ez, in a tight game with the clock winding down.
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draftkings33

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2018, 12:51:38 pm »

Most of these guys would wet themselves the 1st time they had to make a block charge call, or if they were doing football, the 1st time they had a pass play coming at them at backjudge in the ez, in a tight game with the clock winding down.
Yea I've seen coaches and former players try to ref 7th grade jamborees stuff and they are so bad.  Most of them.  Not anyone can ref.
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Dropkick

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2018, 01:30:26 pm »

Do you even know how much Ar school refs get paid? Believe me, anyone that is in it for the money is just crazy.
Not enough for the good ones and far too much for the hapless jerks?
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jethro

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2018, 01:34:12 pm »

I have friends and family that officiate in various sports.  Have thought of doing it many times myself.  Love games and would like to be there and would enjoy it as far as the kids and the JOB goes.  But every time I attend a game and hear  the crowds and coaches.  I know it is not for me.  I take criticism seriously and I would hear everything said I am sure.  No matter how far away or lowly it was said.  I am not easily excitable, but I would not be asked to return engagements often after I told coaches or players not to try and show me up because I seem tame. 

I would be trying to ensure a fair game with good flow. And I think many coaches would wind on the wrong side of appreciating my intent after I somehow felt I had heard enough and T them.
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hogsanity

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2018, 03:18:03 pm »

But every time I attend a game and hear  the crowds and coaches. 


Like i said I don't hear a lot of what is said in the stands, but when I do it is usually so stupid that it is funny. The things that people THINK are rules are hilarious. I'd like to see how many people would make above a 40 on the test we have to take every year. 
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Jim Harris

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2018, 04:48:17 pm »

Not sure where he watches bball that he sees a lot of palming violations. Just not something that happens very often in the games I watch.

Did you watch the Arkansas-Oklahoma State game?
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hogsanity

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2018, 06:22:27 pm »

Did you watch the Arkansas-Oklahoma State game?

alma is a young guy, they grew up thinking it was okay to put your hand completely under the ball and roll it over.
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HogBreath

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2018, 06:52:12 pm »

Go get a whistle and license and start reffing.
My only attempt at any offiiciating was umping in baseball, I can tell you for sure, it's a lot easier in the stands.  I found myself at times, especially on bang bang plays, double guessing my calls, wondering if it really happened as I saw it.
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maxhog5

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #76 on: February 02, 2018, 07:11:54 pm »

In Arkansas they have a statewide clinic that all level 3 & 2 guys are supposed to go to every year, and level 1 every other yr.  But that clinic is going over new rules or rule changes, and some general stuff, not any on court action. If you want to move up and get better games or playoffs, then you go to actual hand on clinics during the summer. Sometimes these are held in conjunction with hs bball camps, and the refs work the games at these camps.

So, you no longer have to attend a clinic/course and then pass a test?  I can't remember exactly what, but I know you had to do something like that in the '80's when I was in college.
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Dropkick

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #77 on: February 02, 2018, 07:28:30 pm »

Do you even know how much Ar school refs get paid? Believe me, anyone that is in it for the money is just crazy.
Iím told around $120 a night for 3 games. Is that about right?
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ifghog

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2018, 07:32:04 pm »

I call big 12 women's......questions?
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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2018, 08:09:23 pm »

alma is a young guy, they grew up thinking it was okay to put your hand completely under the ball and roll it over.

Wish I was young. But I do feel young. That would be palming the ball or carrying the ball whatever you call it would be a turnover.
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hogsanity

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2018, 03:48:48 pm »

Iím told around $120 a night for 3 games. Is that about right?

That's about top end, at least in the schools I call.

So, you no longer have to attend a clinic/course and then pass a test?  I can't remember exactly what, but I know you had to do something like that in the '80's when I was in college.


You do have to pass a test.
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jcul28

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2018, 03:59:08 pm »

Well, do something about it other than griping. Seems like the only "answer" anyone comes up with is " We need to get alot of these guys out officiating because they are so bad ". Well, as pointed out, there is a shortage of refs already, so yea lets get rid of some of the guys who actually do the job ( no matter how you think they do the job ).

Hope you ref better than you read. I never said get for anyone to get out of officiating. I stated clearly that refs are terrible at the games I watch. If you think that is a reflection of you without your name being mentioned... you get the point.
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hogsanity

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2018, 04:02:51 pm »

Hope you ref better than you read. I never said get for anyone to get out of officiating. I stated clearly that refs are terrible at the games I watch. If you think that is a reflection of you without your name being mentioned... you get the point.

I did not say you said it, but read through this and other officiating threads, that is a prevalent theme.
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jcul28

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2018, 04:07:03 pm »

I did not say you said it, but read through this and other officiating threads, that is a prevalent theme.

Here is my complaint, and Iím not saying Iím a ďrefĒ even though I have studied it when I was in college. If you are going to allow hard fouls not to be called, donít call touch fouls. If youíre not going to call double dribbles and walks in the first half, donít call it in the 2nd half.  If youíre going to call ďtick tackĒ fouls, do it from the outset. Most of the games I watch, each half is officiated completely different. It isnít so much ďthey canít refĒ as it is the inconsistency. Wish I had time to ref. I think it would be fun.
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hogsanity

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2018, 04:11:53 pm »

Here is my complaint, and Iím not saying Iím a ďrefĒ even though I have studied it when I was in college. If you are going to allow hard fouls not to be called, donít call touch fouls. If youíre not going to call double dribbles and walks in the first half, donít call it in the 2nd half.  If youíre going to call ďtick tackĒ fouls, do it from the outset. Most of the games I watch, each half is officiated completely different. It isnít so much ďthey canít refĒ as it is the inconsistency. Wish I had time to ref. I think it would be fun.

Are you talking about one ref on the crew or all of them. As I have pointed out before, on a 3 man crew, you may have one guy on the baseline on one end one trip, then he is out front the next and on the wing the next. So you get one that is letting physical play go, another that calls it tight and another that is somewhere in between. Each ref may be consistent, yet it appears he crew, as a whole, is inconsistent
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jcul28

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Re: Does anyone on here officate high school basketball
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2018, 04:29:22 pm »

I mostly go to small class (4A and under) in Oklahoma. They only carry two refs. And itís usually both just being inconsistent. That or one calls everything and the other calls nothing at all.
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KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas