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Author Topic: Video reviews are ruining college bball  (Read 1294 times)

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hogsanity

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Video reviews are ruining college bball
« on: January 27, 2018, 11:14:51 pm »

no idea how many reviews result in over turned or upheld calls, but they are killing games. I watched a lot of bball this evening and every game that was within 10 pts seemed to have almost endless reviews in the last 2 minutes. Who touched it last, was it a f1 foul, and seemingly anything else they thought needed looked at they did it.

The worst art is it gives teams free timeouts, which can be very beneficial if a team is out of time outs. It also ices shooters going to the line for crucial ft's.

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k.c.hawg

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2018, 11:24:27 pm »

Yep I think they could do away with review. If they wanted to do foot/3 point they could do it remotely and advise the score keeper if there is a change in scoring and they could announce it.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2018, 11:27:58 pm »

Agreed....I don't like it at all.  One of MA's goals it to tire the opposition out and make runs against them, and lower their shooting percentage once they get tired.  Not sure it works that well with all the TV timeouts and ways for the players to rest, but nevertheless, it is a part of his "system."   

When they review seemingly every play inside the final two minutes, it virtually eliminates whatever possible advantage we might have obtained.  It's bad to get hosed on a call when it matters the most, but now you wait around for the replay, and you not only still get hosed on the call, but you give the opposition time to draw up a play without even using a timeout.

That call tonight where the ball allegedly went off Barford's nose was asinine.  From what I watched, it was crystal clear that it went off the shoulder of the opposition.  Then on the other end, on TT's block, it did look like the ball stuck to the shooter's hand and it deflected the ball out of bounds.  That happens more than people think, but it's just always been accepted that a blocked shot always touches the defender's hand last when it goes out of bounds.  Now...they're almost changing the game by starting to look at minutia like that. 

I agree....it's taking away from the game's flow, and I don't like it in basketball at all.  It has always been accepted in basketball that when a ref makes a bad call, they use a make up call to even it out.  Yes...sometimes you get screwed the whole game, like what it seemed like today, but usually it's not too drastic of a disparity.   
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hogginbama

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2018, 12:38:41 am »

I like it. Gives the ref instant feedback that they screwed something up.
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jvanhorn

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2018, 04:33:29 am »

I like it. Gives the ref instant feedback that they screwed something up.

Well I don't know how well it is working as intended, but I can tell you for sure it is a momenteum killer.  I have seen at work in football, basketball and baseball and if you are there if person when they start this business it is like sitting on your front porch and watching the grass grow.  It probably hurts baseball the least sense the game is not goverened by a clock, but for all those that don't like baseball because it is so slow, football and basketball are well on their way to being slow, slow, slow.  Unfortunately it is one of those when you let the genie out of the bottle you won't get it back in because it didn't take tv anytime at all to realize they could make money on that on that dead time. 
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M L (bassplayer)

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2018, 07:05:09 am »

I was thinking the same thing. I told my daughter that if they went to the monitor one more time I was going to turn it off, but crap there were two more after that and luckily i stayed with it.
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hobhog

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2018, 07:10:06 am »

Remember Qualls game winning dunk against Kentucky? Ruined the moment for us in crowd when stopped the pandemonium so could "look at monitor". Ruined a good obvious walk off dunk. It's gotten ridiculous....
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Kevin

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2018, 07:10:16 am »

The coaches don't get a video review to have their team get a do over if the make a mistake. The plaYers don't get a video review during the game and a do over. The referees should not either.

Treat them like the rest. If after a time, the video shows they cannot handle the job they get demoted or fired.
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TNhawgfan

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2018, 07:13:00 am »

I only like it for buzzer beaters. The charge block reviews are the worst. I also hate how every play in college football is reviewed. Wish there were only coaches challenges like in the NFL
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Nickle-Pig

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2018, 07:58:14 am »

agree
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HatfieldHog

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2018, 08:00:27 am »

Agreed! End the video review!

See ya
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King Kong

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2018, 08:16:38 am »

I like the review to get it right. Stoppage in the last mins of the game doesnít bother me.

The only thing I donít like is officials sometimes like to not call fouls and then point the ball to the team that was ďfouledĒ. However, once it is reviewed the ball may have gone off the team with the uncalled foul and then they have to appoint the ball to the team they should have called the foul on.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 08:45:23 am by King Kong »
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Dirty

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2018, 08:37:55 am »

I agree!
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porkinsons disease

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2018, 08:45:24 am »

no idea how many reviews result in over turned or upheld calls, but they are killing games. I watched a lot of bball this evening and every game that was within 10 pts seemed to have almost endless reviews in the last 2 minutes. Who touched it last, was it a f1 foul, and seemingly anything else they thought needed looked at they did it.

The worst art is it gives teams free timeouts, which can be very beneficial if a team is out of time outs. It also ices shooters going to the line for crucial ft's.


Agreed. You could tell that we had worn them down and OSU was basically getting free timeouts. That, as well as the bad calls at the end almost cost us the game.
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incHOGnito

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2018, 09:13:47 am »

no idea how many reviews result in over turned or upheld calls, but they are killing games. I watched a lot of bball this evening and every game that was within 10 pts seemed to have almost endless reviews in the last 2 minutes. Who touched it last, was it a f1 foul, and seemingly anything else they thought needed looked at they did it.

The worst art is it gives teams free timeouts, which can be very beneficial if a team is out of time outs. It also ices shooters going to the line for crucial ft's.



I agree. If they are going to do reviews, they need to get to look at the play a limited number of times (say 3) at full speed. If they canít make the change based on that, play ball. Should take no more than a minute. Hell, put a shot clock on it.
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sevenof400

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2018, 09:21:13 am »

A point made in the game yesterday was video review was only being manned by the referees on the court - meaning that no one at a conference HQ was watching the games in order to assist he video review process.  That was absurd.  Between the resources of the Big 12 and the SEC, the games should have been divided between the two conference HQ to give the on site referees the same amount of replay guidance as they get during conference games. 

I do agree that video replay is a serious issue for college basketball these days but with the proper investment in technology and manpower, these issues are solvable.  To have NO HQ backup on those games yesterday was short sighted. 
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hogsanity

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2018, 09:34:36 am »

A point made in the game yesterday was video review was only being manned by the referees on the court - meaning that no one at a conference HQ was watching the games in order to assist he video review process.  That was absurd.  Between the resources of the Big 12 and the SEC, the games should have been divided between the two conference HQ to give the on site referees the same amount of replay guidance as they get during conference games. 

I do agree that video replay is a serious issue for college basketball these days but with the proper investment in technology and manpower, these issues are solvable.  To have NO HQ backup on those games yesterday was short sighted. 

Sec only uses centralized replay for conference games.
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sevenof400

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2018, 09:40:29 am »

Sec only uses centralized replay for conference games.

How hard would it have been for the SEC conf office to man the challenge games hosted by SEC schools and the Big 12 do the same for the games at their home locations?  It certainly could not have hurt the game flow last night - and I suspect both leagues could afford it.....

In this day with the money flowing in college basketball, every game should have video replay officials.
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hogsanity

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2018, 09:47:04 am »

How hard would it have been for the SEC conf office to man the challenge games hosted by SEC schools and the Big 12 do the same for the games at their home locations?  It certainly could not have hurt the game flow last night - and I suspect both leagues could afford it.....

In this day with the money flowing in college basketball, every game should have video replay officials.

Does the big12 use centralized replay for their conf games? 
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sevenof400

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2018, 09:59:04 am »

Does the big12 use centralized replay for their conf games?

I thought by the way the announcers were talking yesterday that the Big 12 used video replay for basketball as well, Hogsanity. 

However - on further review - I found this:  http://www.secsports.com/article/21912124/sec-implement-collaborative-instant-replay-mbb

And from that article, this:
Quote
..In June of 2017, the NCAA approved an experimental rule at the request of the SEC that will allow a conference to utilize a collaborative Instant Replay review process for all conference contests in the 2017-18 season. This collaboration will be limited to only those plays that are reviewable under NCAA Playing Rule 11. All reviews will be initiated by game officials, who maintain final decision-making authority. The SEC is the only conference utilizing a collaborative replay process this season....

Wow.  I stand corrected. 
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Hogs run wild

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2018, 10:05:17 am »

i like the reviews, especially when they overturned the call on barford. the review showed a tiny booger come out from the ball scrapping his nose. that tells me right there that reviews worked. or, when anton was playing defense too close and his face intentionally fouled that guy's elbow. i'm actually kind of surprised they didn't call a flagrant 1 on his face. we got lucky on that one folks.
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jkstock04

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2018, 10:30:24 am »

no idea how many reviews result in over turned or upheld calls, but they are killing games. I watched a lot of bball this evening and every game that was within 10 pts seemed to have almost endless reviews in the last 2 minutes. Who touched it last, was it a f1 foul, and seemingly anything else they thought needed looked at they did it.

The worst art is it gives teams free timeouts, which can be very beneficial if a team is out of time outs. It also ices shooters going to the line for crucial ft's.


The multitude of tv timeouts are worse.
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niels_boar

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2018, 01:32:05 pm »

Several times during the game we had FT shooters standing around for an eternity while the refs did heaven knows what.  And, if you have to watch a replay 100 times on a flat screen  in order to make an out-of-bounds call, there isn't conclusive evidence to overturn a call.  Camera angles can provide all sorts of optical illusions.
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LRHawg

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2018, 01:36:44 pm »

The coaches don't get a video review to have their team get a do over if the make a mistake. The plaYers don't get a video review during the game and a do over. The referees should not either.

Treat them like the rest. If after a time, the video shows they cannot handle the job they get demoted or fired.

Haha, but then after one season there'd be no refs left.

Why even use he replays if they still get it wrong? It's watering down the game and wasting time.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2018, 01:40:23 pm »

Ref whiners have brought replay.
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hogsanity

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2018, 02:25:33 pm »

Ref whiners have brought replay.

What's funny is that during games players make mistakes, those are called turnovers, missed shots, fumbles, errors, ( depending on the sport ). Coaches make mistakes, calling the wrong play, maybe making a poor substitution. Yet, for some reason the only plays we replay are officials calls. As a major league ump said once, "Umpiring ( insert officiating ) is the only job you are supposed to be perfect in your 1st day and then get better".
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mykidsdad

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2018, 02:30:23 pm »

What's funny is that during games players make mistakes, those are called turnovers, missed shots, fumbles, errors, ( depending on the sport ). Coaches make mistakes, calling the wrong play, maybe making a poor substitution. Yet, for some reason the only plays we replay are officials calls. As a major league ump said once, "Umpiring ( insert officiating ) is the only job you are supposed to be perfect in your 1st day and then get better".

Except that they are human and they, like you, don't believe that they make mistakes. Tired of your constant defense of poor officiating. Apparently the ref fan site is down again so you are back on here defending them? You are sooo, sooo, sooo predictable.

'refsanity'
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hogsanity

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2018, 02:38:12 pm »

Except that they are human and they, like you, don't believe that they make mistakes. Tired of your constant defense of poor officiating. Apparently the ref fan site is down again so you are back on here defending them? You are sooo, sooo, sooo predictable.

'refsanity'


But at least those of us that do officiate have the guts to do the job, unlike those who sit and blame their teams shortfalls, and often their kids lack of athletic success, on the officials, yet never try to be art of the solution to a problem they swear exists.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2018, 02:46:11 pm »

The coaches don't get a video review to have their team get a do over if the make a mistake. The plaYers don't get a video review during the game and a do over. The referees should not either.

Treat them like the rest. If after a time, the video shows they cannot handle the job they get demoted or fired.

Exactly.

Maybe give coaches 2 challenges per game similar to football.
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hogsanity

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2018, 02:49:21 pm »

The coaches don't get a video review to have their team get a do over if the make a mistake. The plaYers don't get a video review during the game and a do over. The referees should not either.

Treat them like the rest. If after a time, the video shows they cannot handle the job they get demoted or fired.

who is going to determine if they can or can not handle the job? The people who hire them already rate them and if you are not good you don't get games.

Just because fans do not think a ref is any good does not mean he is not.
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tennesseehogwild

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2018, 02:54:58 pm »

The last review in OSU game was ridiculous. Ref clearly got it right but let Macon and Barford talk him into needless review. Too much of a crutch, and this crew was already having an off day.
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mykidsdad

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2018, 02:56:30 pm »

But at least those of us that do officiate have the guts to do the job, unlike those who sit and blame their teams shortfalls, and often their kids lack of athletic success, on the officials, yet never try to be art of the solution to a problem they swear exists.

lol - you probably don't even do the 'job'. No guts, just mouth. punk!

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hogsanity

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2018, 02:57:05 pm »

The last review in OSU game was ridiculous. Ref clearly got it right but let Macon and Barford talk him into needless review. Too much of a crutch, and this crew was already having an off day.

Actually the baseline ref talked him into it. But that goes to the point of giving each coach a couple challenges, none of this open ended we can look at just about anything in the last 2 minute stuff.
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mykidsdad

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2018, 02:57:23 pm »

who is going to determine if they can or can not handle the job? The people who hire them already rate them and if you are not good you don't get games.

Just because fans do not think a ref is any good does not mean he is not.

No they consult with all knowing hogsanity, of the famed refs.com site.
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sevenof400

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2018, 03:16:30 pm »

But at least those of us that do officiate have the guts to do the job, unlike those who sit and blame their teams shortfalls, and often their kids lack of athletic success, on the officials, yet never try to be art of the solution to a problem they swear exists.

Very well stated, Hogsanity.
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jfred59

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2018, 03:30:15 pm »

who is going to determine if they can or can not handle the job? The people who hire them already rate them and if you are not good you don't get games.

Just because fans do not think a ref is any good does not mean he is not.

The people that rate them are part of the problem.  They are ex-officials and part of the Good Ole Ref system and they aint going to hang their buddy out to dry.  Most of them were bad officials when they called games and are still bad at the job
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jfred59

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2018, 03:41:26 pm »

Another thing I noticed is that besides Pat Adams, another official Ron Goober, Gomer or whatever his name is bad.  He was part of the crew at MSU involved in the free throw fiasco.  He is also the one that said that if they didnt take care of a fan in the LSU game that he wasnt bringing his crew back.  Whoever assigns officials needs to take that and make sure he doesnt ever come back to BWA.
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(notOM)Rebel123

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2018, 03:59:01 pm »

What's funny is that during games players make mistakes, those are called turnovers, missed shots, fumbles, errors, ( depending on the sport ). Coaches make mistakes, calling the wrong play, maybe making a poor substitution. Yet, for some reason the only plays we replay are officials calls. As a major league ump said once, "Umpiring ( insert officiating ) is the only job you are supposed to be perfect in your 1st day and then get better".

The officials are the only one of the three (players, coaches, & officials) who have the ultimate authority to decide the outcome of games through their actions. The greatest of plays or blunders can all be negated by one refereeís whistle. So yes, reviewing their calls is most certainly appropriate. But there were two calls reviewed in yesterday's game  (Barford ball out of bounds & the OSU player tipping the ball after Treyís block) that they just flat out got wrong. No excuse for that with the number of times they watched the replay during review.
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TushCrush

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2018, 04:09:47 pm »

I just watched the replay of Barford out of bounds. One angle it looks like the ball hit Barford on the cheek and went out of bounds, and then the other angle looks like it didn't hit him at all. On the first camera angle Barford kinda reacted to the ball hitting him at the end of the play. That must have been the angle the refs bought into. Very hard to call that one with the video replay available.
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(notOM)Rebel123

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2018, 04:14:28 pm »

I just watched the replay of Barford out of bounds. One angle it looks like the ball hit Barford on the cheek and went out of bounds, and then the other angle looks like it didn't hit him at all. On the first camera angle Barford kinda reacted to the ball hitting him at the end of the play. That must have been the angle the refs bought into. Very hard to call that one with the video replay available.

Isnít there supposed to be indisputable video evidence to overturn the call?
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hawgfan4life

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2018, 04:33:50 pm »

Isnít there supposed to be indisputable video evidence to overturn the call?


This!  There was no way Barfordís was indisputably overturned!  The bogus foul on Macon when the guy barreled straight into him, bogus call on Barford with a BS T added to it, two replays they got wrong with one being an over-ruling, and then calling foul on what looked far more like a jump ball was a little too much when all added together.  If any of those guys were part of the Miss State game, I would seriously question their ability to call unbiased against Arkansas.
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hogsanity

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2018, 04:48:02 pm »

The people that rate them are part of the problem.  They are ex-officials and part of the Good Ole Ref system and they aint going to hang their buddy out to dry.  Most of them were bad officials when they called games and are still bad at the job

So lets see, the current refs are bad, the former refs were bad. Where are they going to find any good ones?
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hogfanny

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2018, 05:07:11 pm »

Corrupt officiating is what is ruining some teams. the reviews verify that they are intentionly favoring certain teams and that the ncaa/sec is equally corrupt for allowing it to continue. Honest mistakes are understandable and forgivable, but what we as Hogs are experiencing is unacceptable. It would be a good time for Yugo to make a stand here. This is our home floor for petes sake. Those refs yesterday should receive a public flogging and then fined, fired and horsewhipped.
















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tennesseehogwild

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2018, 05:36:04 pm »

So lets see, the current refs are bad, the former refs were bad. Where are they going to find any good ones?

That's what I am wondering, lol. The pool is very thin already. Hardly any new blood wants to get into officiating as it is.
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jfred59

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2018, 08:19:18 pm »

So lets see, the current refs are bad, the former refs were bad. Where are they going to find any good ones?

I agree thats a problem.   The ones that are bad need to be dealt with, held accountable.  There are more good than bad out there but the ones that are bad are so bad that it outshines the good ones.
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urkillnmesmalls

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2018, 08:58:22 pm »

I agree thats a problem.   The ones that are bad need to be dealt with, held accountable.  There are more good than bad out there but the ones that are bad are so bad that it outshines the good ones.

It happens quickly, you don't always have a great look, and sometimes it's a judgement call.  I get that completely, and I FULLY expect refs to miss calls.  It's part of the game. 

But how in the world do you watch a slow motion replay and say that ball wasn't knocked out of Barford's hands, and off the OSU player's shoulder before going out of bounds?  How is that even possible?  Unless they weren't able to see the replays we saw, that makes zero sense to me unless the official has some ulterior motive.  I simply do not get that at all....miss a real time call, get it.  Miss a replay from 5 angles in slow motion....no excuses. 

If you're going to USE REPLAY...and then get it wrong anyway, then what is the point of using it at all? 
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hogsanity

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2018, 10:58:29 pm »

Corrupt officiating is what is ruining some teams. the reviews verify that they are intentionly favoring certain teams and that the ncaa/sec is equally corrupt for allowing it to continue. Honest mistakes are understandable and forgivable, but what we as Hogs are experiencing is unacceptable. It would be a good time for Yugo to make a stand here. This is our home floor for petes sake. Those refs yesterday should receive a public flogging and then fined, fired and horsewhipped.








Yet, when they could have made foul calls in the last two games on game saving blocks, calls they could easily have justified because there was contact, they did not blow the whistle. They are out to screw the Hogs, yet when given the ultimate opportunity they do not do it.
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hogsanity

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2018, 11:03:54 pm »

That's what I am wondering, lol. The pool is very thin already. Hardly any new blood wants to get into officiating as it is.

Yep, especially in bball. 20-25 yr olds do not want to get into it because you start out calling youth leagues with dads coaching that think they are Coach K or Izzo, or 7th grade with coaches that whine about every call, and parents screaming about walking on every play. And for no more than the get paid for it, they just do not want to deal with it.

So, what you do get are guys that are older, more established, and have jobs where they can get off work to make a 4pm 7th grade start or leave at 3:30 to get to a 6pm varsity tip 2 hrs away. Those guys usually are a little more laid back, can take the coaches and fans, and do not do it for the money. Problem is, they are too old to have the time to move up and get the experience to get good enough to make it to major college ball. 
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ShadowHawg

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2018, 11:23:49 pm »

Referees are ruining college basketball. Reviews need to take place without input from any member of the crew by an independent 3rd party.

Referee pay should be merit based. An independent 3rd party should watch replays and determine if referees are being consistent, overly demonstrative, too sensitive, and gather stats on program won/loss records for each team or whatever else might matter.

Just have a clear performance rubric that must be met.

The crap that this ref or that ref is good because he has called Final Fours is a joke. They are voted on by other refs, current or retired. The fox watching the hen house.

Refs are reviewed, but with no metrics applied, just opinion. No excuse for this in the era of computers and their capacity for collecting information. Refs should earn ratings based off performance against a rubric and advance to Conference and NCAA tourneys based on a scoring system.

Refs have zero accountability as of now. It has to change.
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hogsanity

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Re: Video reviews are ruining college bball
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2018, 11:37:30 pm »

Referees are ruining college basketball. Reviews need to take place without input from any member of the crew by an independent 3rd party.

Referee pay should be merit based. An independent 3rd party should watch replays and determine if referees are being consistent, overly demonstrative, too sensitive, and gather stats on program won/loss records for each team or whatever else might matter.

Just have a clear performance rubric that must be met.

The crap that this ref or that ref is good because he has called Final Fours is a joke. They are voted on by other refs, current or retired. The fox watching the hen house.

Refs are reviewed, but with no metrics applied, just opinion. No excuse for this in the era of computers and their capacity for collecting information. Refs should earn ratings based off performance against a rubric and advance to Conference and NCAA tourneys based on a scoring system.

Refs have zero accountability as of now. It has to change.

a 3rd party review is still going to be subjective. Should accountants review surgeons? Should a electrical engineer review dentists?
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