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Author Topic: SEC is not better, just average  (Read 1230 times)

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3of5-2

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SEC is not better, just average
« on: January 24, 2018, 09:49:22 pm »

I am not buying this myth that the SEC is better this year. ALL of these teams can lose on any given night. Notice I didn't say win on any given night. There is not one dominant team in the SEC this year. From top to bottom, they are closer in ability than in most years. I think that gives Arkansas an advantage in the SECT. Even though we struggle at times, a lot, it could pay off at the end of conference play. As long as we get our legs back after each of these games, I think it helps us more than any other team in the tournament.
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ShadowHawg

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2018, 09:51:25 pm »

Troll much
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popcornhog

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2018, 09:52:18 pm »

I am not buying this myth that the SEC is better this year. ALL of these teams can lose on any given night. Notice I didn't say win on any given night. There is not one dominant team in the SEC this year. From top to bottom, they are closer in ability than in most years. I think that gives Arkansas an advantage in the SECT. Even though we struggle at times, a lot, it could pay off at the end of conference play. As long as we get our legs back after each of these games, I think it helps us more than any other team in the tournament.

Lol
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TomasPistola

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2018, 09:54:56 pm »

I am not buying this myth that the SEC is better this year. ALL of these teams can lose on any given night. Notice I didn't say win on any given night. There is not one dominant team in the SEC this year. From top to bottom, they are closer in ability than in most years. I think that gives Arkansas an advantage in the SECT. Even though we struggle at times, a lot, it could pay off at the end of conference play. As long as we get our legs back after each of these games, I think it helps us more than any other team in the tournament.

I'm not buying anything from a poster than can't even set an avatar in his profile. See? I can post stupid stuff too!
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3of5-2

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 09:56:29 pm »

I'm not buying anything from a poster than can't even set an avatar in his profile. See? I can post stupid stuff too!
With an ugly girlfriend like yours, I wouldn't.
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BannerMountainMan

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2018, 09:56:52 pm »

Guess we will find out in 3 days ole boy
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TomasPistola

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2018, 09:58:51 pm »

With an ugly girlfriend like yours, I wouldn't.



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Breems

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2018, 10:01:48 pm »

But average is better.

There's only 1, maybe 2 teams in the traditional SEC cellar. AU and FL are pretty good. The rest of us have all upped our game a bit which has left the middle wide open. UK was even nice enough to join us in the middle this year.
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stan the man

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2018, 10:03:08 pm »

Take a look at Auburn slaughter of Missouri. They are definitely best team in conference
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3of5-2

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2018, 10:05:24 pm »

But average is better.

There's only 1, maybe 2 teams in the traditional SEC cellar. AU and FL are pretty good. The rest of us have all upped our game a bit which has left the middle wide open. UK was even nice enough to join us in the middle this year.
Yep, glad see Cal's Gals humbled a bit, just think if we make it to the championship game, there's a pretty good chance we get the automatic bid anyway.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2018, 10:15:42 pm »

I am not buying this myth that the SEC is better this year. ALL of these teams can lose on any given night. Notice I didn't say win on any given night. There is not one dominant team in the SEC this year. From top to bottom, they are closer in ability than in most years. I think that gives Arkansas an advantage in the SECT. Even though we struggle at times, a lot, it could pay off at the end of conference play. As long as we get our legs back after each of these games, I think it helps us more than any other team in the tournament.

So my question would be how many teams fit into your scenario and where do we rank among those teams?  Also how many team rank in your “could win any night”?   And then you need to figure out how many teams we couldn’t beat on any given night.  Probably a couple more of these scenarios and you will be able to tell us our record at years end, what our seed will be in the tournament, if we will meet UNC again.  Ha that’s what I want to know, will we meet UNC again and at what level!   
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3of5-2

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2018, 10:23:41 pm »

So my question would be how many teams fit into your scenario and where do we rank among those teams?  Also how many team rank in your “could win any night”?   And then you need to figure out how many teams we couldn’t beat on any given night.  Probably a couple more of these scenarios and you will be able to tell us our record at years end, what our seed will be in the tournament, if we will meet UNC again.  Ha that’s what I want to know, will we meet UNC again and at what level!
I would say all the teams that make the SECt, would fit that scenario. Not that we have gotten a lot better, but I'm not sure UNC has gotten ANY better, if not worse. It sounds like you want another shot at them.
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Pig Tymer

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2018, 10:25:21 pm »

SEC is much better than in previous years. Last year was a step in right direction, but the conference was in a downward spiral over the last decade. Sports analysts are projecting 7-8 teams to make the tournament; it's previously been UK and 2-3 others. At this point, it doesn't look like there's a title contender, but at least half of the conference is slightly less interested in Spring football.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2018, 10:35:43 pm »

SEC is much better than in previous years. Last year was a step in right direction, but the conference was in a downward spiral over the last decade. Sports analysts are projecting 7-8 teams to make the tournament; it's previously been UK and 2-3 others. At this point, it doesn't look like there's a title contender, but at least half of the conference is slightly less interested in Spring football.

I do not see us getting over 6 teams in the NCAAT but we will see.   So many good teams out there.  I would be shocked if a SEC team with a losing SEC record gets in.
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JayHog

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2018, 10:44:48 pm »

A losing SEC record? Lol. First, I don’t think we’ll have a losing SEC record.
We have several top 50 rpi wins and we’ll get another one when Kentucky comes to Bud Walton Arena.

We are also currently #22 in the rpi rankings. Teams with Rpi’s in the 20’s or 30’s don’t get left out.
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BannerMountainMan

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2018, 10:57:59 pm »

A losing SEC record? Lol. First, I don’t think we’ll have a losing SEC record.
We have several top 50 rpi wins and we’ll get another one when Kentucky comes to Bud Walton Arena.

We are also currently #22 in the rpi rankings. Teams with Rpi’s in the 20’s or 30’s don’t get left out.
3 top 50's and 7 top 100's. That's a recipe for success.
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Kevin

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2018, 07:58:20 am »

the top of the league is not elite, and the bottom is not awful.
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hogsanity

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2018, 08:27:13 am »

But average is better.

There's only 1, maybe 2 teams in the traditional SEC cellar. AU and FL are pretty good. The rest of us have all upped our game a bit which has left the middle wide open. UK was even nice enough to join us in the middle this year.

While the SEC may be better in the middle and at the bottom, there is not one team you look at and say Oh yea, they are a final 4 team or a elite 8 team or maybe even a sweet 16 team. Depending on which poll you look at, the league only has 3 top 25 teams, all in the 20 range, and only 1 in " others receiving votes" in one poll ( Ky ) and 2 ( KY and Bama ) in the other of the 2 major polls.
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FineAsSwine

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2018, 08:33:58 am »

While the SEC may be better in the middle and at the bottom, there is not one team you look at and say Oh yea, they are a final 4 team or a elite 8 team or maybe even a sweet 16 team. Depending on which poll you look at, the league only has 3 top 25 teams, all in the 20 range, and only 1 in " others receiving votes" in one poll ( Ky ) and 2 ( KY and Bama ) in the other of the 2 major polls.

I could easily see Auburn, Florida, KY or Tennessee in the Sweet Sixteen and one of them being in the elite 8 wouldn't shock me at all. If Arkansas gets it's defense together, I would put them up there with those other teams as a serious threat to make a run. A&M may even get untracked and start playing like a top 10 team again.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2018, 08:35:40 am »

While the SEC may be better in the middle and at the bottom, there is not one team you look at and say Oh yea, they are a final 4 team or a elite 8 team or maybe even a sweet 16 team. Depending on which poll you look at, the league only has 3 top 25 teams, all in the 20 range, and only 1 in " others receiving votes" in one poll ( Ky ) and 2 ( KY and Bama ) in the other of the 2 major polls.

Couldn’t that just be a product of the whole league being substantially better?   Maybe we don’t have a final four team but at the sametime I could see the league having a very good tournament record.
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Hawg Red

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2018, 08:39:49 am »

Oh boy.

Look, I've argued with people on here for years that said the SEC was better than it was getting credit for, but the league is very good this year. Basically, only Vanderbilt isn't a good team. Every other team in the league has a shot at an at-large bid right now. I think 7 teams will get a bid this year, maybe 8. That's clearly above average.
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hogsanity

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2018, 08:49:27 am »

Couldn’t that just be a product of the whole league being substantially better?   Maybe we don’t have a final four team but at the sametime I could see the league having a very good tournament record.

The league could have a team or even 2 in the final 4 or elite 8. The NCAAT is all about matchups, so the league could have a very good record, average, or poor depending on who the teams are that get in and what draws they get.

It could be that the league is really good so anyone can beat anyone, or it could be that it is average and so anyone can beat anyone. There is not one or 2 dominant teams like we have seen in years past.
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Wisco Pig

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2018, 09:29:25 am »

We can apply some numbers to this discussion and see that the SEC is clearly better than in previous years, although I agree with posters who say no single team stands out as elite. 

For example, the bracketologists at ESPN and CBS have 8 SEC teams in their latest tournament fields, with a 9th team (S. Carolina or Georgia) listed in the first four out or next four out.   I can't find a quick confirmation online, but I don't think the SEC has ever received more than 6 bids to a single tournament.

The SEC is currently rated as the nation's 4th best conference according to RPI, and it's possible for that ranking to improve with a strong showing this weekend against the Big 12, which has the best conference RPI.   The 2nd- and 3rd-rated conferences (Big East and ACC) have collective RPIs that are less than half a percentage point ahead of the SEC.

In terms of RPI, the SEC currently has 9 teams in the top 50; a 10th team, Georgia, is 55th.  Overall, 13 of 14 SEC teams are in the RPI top 100.  I can't prove it, but I doubt the conference has ever had such numbers.  Here's a quick comparison with the past few seasons:

Year    Conference RPI    Top 50 teams   Top 100 teams
2018        4th                        9                   13
2017        5th                        5                   10
2016        6th                        3                    9
2015        6th                        3                   10
2014        7th                        4                    8
2013        9th                        3                    8
2012*      4th                        4                    8

* Last year of 12-team SEC.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 09:44:20 am by Wisco Pig »
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KlubhouseKonnected

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2018, 09:34:57 am »

I am not buying this myth that the SEC is better this year. ALL of these teams can lose on any given night. Notice I didn't say win on any given night. There is not one dominant team in the SEC this year. From top to bottom, they are closer in ability than in most years. I think that gives Arkansas an advantage in the SECT. Even though we struggle at times, a lot, it could pay off at the end of conference play. As long as we get our legs back after each of these games, I think it helps us more than any other team in the tournament.

You should try to be less obvious than this when you are trying to frame a narrative for your little agenda
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jjdlc

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2018, 09:48:42 am »

Lets see what happens in the SEC/Big 12 challenge before we start posting crap like this.  To this point the SEC has performed very well in it's OOC schedule, so yeah, as of right now, the SEC looks much improved from past years.  The parity across the league is also much tighter.
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lynbug

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2018, 09:55:09 am »

The league could have a team or even 2 in the final 4 or elite 8. The NCAAT is all about matchups, so the league could have a very good record, average, or poor depending on who the teams are that get in and what draws they get.
It could be that the league is really good so anyone can beat anyone, or it could be that it is average and so anyone can beat anyone. There is not one or 2 dominant teams like we have seen in years pa?st.
But with either of those scenarios couldn't it make the teams stronger....being in so many "dog fights" that go down to the last few seconds of the game?  Seems like there has been more of those games than usual this year.
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pigroots

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2018, 10:06:54 am »

The SEC needs to win 4-5 games in this challenge to be considered legit. I think the media likes to bash the SEC due to the success we garner in football. If the conference gets hammered it will probably cost a bid or 2 come March. Too bad Auburn is not involved cause right now they are the SEC's best team
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k.c.hawg

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2018, 10:10:01 am »

I am not buying this myth that the SEC is better this year. ALL of these teams can lose on any given night. Notice I didn't say win on any given night. There is not one dominant team in the SEC this year. From top to bottom, they are closer in ability than in most years. I think that gives Arkansas an advantage in the SECT. Even though we struggle at times, a lot, it could pay off at the end of conference play. As long as we get our legs back after each of these games, I think it helps us more than any other team in the tournament.

WTH?? Did you just start watching the league this year??
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hogsanity

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2018, 10:18:10 am »

We can apply some numbers to this discussion and see that the SEC is clearly better than in previous years, although I agree with posters who say no single team stands out as elite. 

For example, the bracketologists at ESPN and CBS have 8 SEC teams in their latest tournament fields, with a 9th team (S. Carolina or Georgia) listed in the first four out or next four out.   I can't find a quick confirmation online, but I don't think the SEC has ever received more than 6 bids to a single tournament.

The SEC is currently rated as the nation's 4th best conference according to RPI, and it's possible for that ranking to improve with a strong showing this weekend against the Big 12, which has the best conference RPI.   The 2nd- and 3rd-rated conferences (Big East and ACC) have collective RPIs that are less than half a percentage point ahead of the SEC.

In terms of RPI, the SEC currently has 9 teams in the top 50; a 10th team, Georgia, is 55th.  Overall, 13 of 14 SEC teams are in the RPI top 100.  I can't prove it, but I doubt the conference has ever had such numbers.  Here's a quick comparison with the past few seasons:

Year    Conference RPI    Top 50 teams   Top 100 teams
2018        4th                        9                   13
2017        5th                        5                   10
2016        6th                        3                    9
2015        6th                        3                   10
2014        7th                        4                    8
2013        9th                        3                    8
2012*      4th                        4                    8

* Last year of 12-team SEC.

Ok, the rpi is better but us that because they played much better ooc schedules or won more of them , or both. It was not long ago that SC played like a 251rpi ooc schedule.

Does better rpi mean the teams are actually better though?
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gchamblee

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2018, 10:19:50 am »

I am not buying this myth that the SEC is better this year. ALL of these teams can lose on any given night. Notice I didn't say win on any given night. There is not one dominant team in the SEC this year. From top to bottom, they are closer in ability than in most years. I think that gives Arkansas an advantage in the SECT. Even though we struggle at times, a lot, it could pay off at the end of conference play. As long as we get our legs back after each of these games, I think it helps us more than any other team in the tournament.

It isn't a myth when math proves you wrong.
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010HogFan

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2018, 10:37:33 am »

WTH?? Did you just start watching the league this year??

LMFAO it's so much better it's not funny! He must have forgotten what SEC basketball looks like traditionally...
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Wisco Pig

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2018, 10:46:48 am »

Does better rpi mean the teams are actually better though?

I'd say yes, particularly when applied to whole conferences rather than individual teams (i.e., more data = better data), and when the differences are as dramatic as some of those shown in the numbers above.

The merit and value of RPI has been debated endlessly by college basketball wonks, and that debate is a rabbit hole I'd rather avoid, but I do think RPI is useful for discussions like these. 

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razorhead94

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2018, 10:52:01 am »

Ok, the rpi is better but us that because they played much better ooc schedules or won more of them , or both. It was not long ago that SC played like a 251rpi ooc schedule.

Does better rpi mean the teams are actually better though?

It does when the teams actually win those big games in non conference which this league has.  There is a reason for the numbers.

Texas A&M - W over (7) West Virginia AP Ranked#7 and @USC (37)
Tennessee -  W over (10) Purdue AP Ranked #3 and wins over NC State, Georgia Tech, and Wake Forest
Kentucky -    W over (17) Louisville
Arkansas -    W over (9) Oklahoma AP Ranked #12 and Minnesota
Alabama -    W over (11) Rhode Island and Memphis
Florida -       W over (24) Cincinnati and Gonzaga AP Ranked #15
Georgia -      W over (41) Saint Mary's AP Ranked #16 and (44) @Marquette and (45) Temple
LSU -           W over (34) Michigan and (44) Marquette


It's not every single team in the conference but you get my drift. 

« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 11:58:58 am by razorhead94 »
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DeltaBoy

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2018, 11:04:57 am »

I am not buying this myth that the SEC is better this year. ALL of these teams can lose on any given night. Notice I didn't say win on any given night. There is not one dominant team in the SEC this year. From top to bottom, they are closer in ability than in most years. I think that gives Arkansas an advantage in the SECT. Even though we struggle at times, a lot, it could pay off at the end of conference play. As long as we get our legs back after each of these games, I think it helps us more than any other team in the tournament.

We will see once the Tournament get here.
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niels_boar

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2018, 11:48:55 am »

In the Massey Composite Computer Index, which includes many computer polls that take into account how well you play against your schedule, 7 SEC teams are in the top 40, which would be virtual locks for at-large bids.  Bama is at #45 and would most likely get in at the present.  Another four teams are then in the #50-#70 range, which puts them in striking range of a bid with a good February and March.  Ole Miss and Vandy, both of whom have really good backcourts, may have too much to do without a long winning streak.  Ole Miss underperformed in nonconconference.  They are playing well right now.  If Ole Miss is your 13th best team, the conference is really good. 

The SEC was fine last year as well.  I posted before the tournament last year that the SEC had competed quite well with the ACC when the national media was slurping how strong the ACC was.  We then saw what happened in the tournament.  The SEC will get the benefit of some feedback effects in SOS this season that may make it look better than it is because there are no bad teams, but the Big 12 has been riding that gravy train to overrated for years. 

The SEC has been better than the rankings indicate in past years, but having 3 or 4 bad teams, which is more likely in a big conference, hammers the computer rankings of everyone. In 2013-14 UK had 6 losses in the SEC and went to the NC game.  How bad could it have been?  The top-9 were fine, but five teams at the bottom had overall losing records.  We swept UK and didn't get a bid.  UK beat a #1-seed, two #2-seeds, and a #4-seed on the way to the title game. 

There is usually a lot more parity in college basketball than the computer polls would lead you to believe.  You see it in the tournament almost every year.  The top four right now are Nova, Purdue, UVA, and Duke.  Tennessee beat Purdue and led Nova by 12 at half. UF led Duke for about 35 minutes.  It's not like it is mission impossible to beat anybody in college basketball this season.  This isn't 2015 when true power was at the top.
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AP85

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2018, 12:03:43 pm »

I am not buying this myth that the SEC is better this year. ALL of these teams can lose on any given night. Notice I didn't say win on any given night. There is not one dominant team in the SEC this year. From top to bottom, they are closer in ability than in most years. I think that gives Arkansas an advantage in the SECT. Even though we struggle at times, a lot, it could pay off at the end of conference play. As long as we get our legs back after each of these games, I think it helps us more than any other team in the tournament.

FIRE MIKE! 14-6!!!!
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HeyHogs

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2018, 12:08:26 pm »

🧐 Interesting..  Please tell us more?
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sadhogfan

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2018, 12:38:11 pm »

I am not buying this myth that the SEC is better this year. ALL of these teams can lose on any given night. Notice I didn't say win on any given night. There is not one dominant team in the SEC this year. From top to bottom, they are closer in ability than in most years. I think that gives Arkansas an advantage in the SECT. Even though we struggle at times, a lot, it could pay off at the end of conference play. As long as we get our legs back after each of these games, I think it helps us more than any other team in the tournament.

You’re bad at knowledge.
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Dirty

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2018, 12:55:41 pm »

I would say all the teams that make the SECt, would fit that scenario. Not that we have gotten a lot better, but I'm not sure UNC has gotten ANY better, if not worse. It sounds like you want another shot at them.

Doesn't all SEC teams make the SECt?
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Wisco Pig

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2018, 01:10:32 pm »

Doesn't all SEC teams make the SECt?

Yes, all 14 teams will be in the SEC tournament. 
A #11-14 seed would need 5 victories in 5 days to win the tournament.
A #5-10 seed would need 4 wins.
The #1-4 seeds get a double bye and need "only" 3 wins.
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Hogsfan1981

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2018, 01:58:39 pm »

8 teams probably getting in from SEC. It is better this year IMO and in circles including most analysts and people that make a living being in the know...
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3of5-2

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2018, 02:09:11 pm »

You should try to be less obvious than this when you are trying to frame a narrative for your little agenda
People like you, always assume there is an agenda. It's that paranoia that drives you to thinking there's a conspiracy around every corner. Take another hydro and crawl back into the dark. It's not safe for you out here.
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3of5-2

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2018, 02:12:25 pm »

WTH?? Did you just start watching the league this year??
Nope, when teams just beat each other, and there is not much difference between virtually all of them from top to bottom, they are all just average. It doesn't make them better. We will see when the tourney gets here.
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3of5-2

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2018, 02:13:40 pm »

Doesn't all SEC teams make the SECt?
My bad, I forgot it's all about money and juice boxes and orange slices at the SECt.
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3of5-2

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2018, 02:14:28 pm »

You’re bad at knowledge.
No, but you lack wisdom.
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hawginbigd1

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2018, 02:57:39 pm »

While the SEC may be better in the middle and at the bottom, there is not one team you look at and say Oh yea, they are a final 4 team or a elite 8 team or maybe even a sweet 16 team. Depending on which poll you look at, the league only has 3 top 25 teams, all in the 20 range, and only 1 in " others receiving votes" in one poll ( Ky ) and 2 ( KY and Bama ) in the other of the 2 major polls.
At this same time last year nobody would have said that USC was a FF team, but I think I am in line with your premise the bottom and middle are way better, not sure there is an elite team right now.
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hogsanity

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2018, 03:23:00 pm »

My bad, I forgot it's all about money and juice boxes and orange slices at the SECt.

Do any of the major conferences not take all of their teams in their tournament?
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jesterzzn

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2018, 03:26:52 pm »

People like you, always assume there is an agenda.

Superfluous comma.  Argument invalidated.
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3of5-2

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2018, 04:08:01 pm »

Superfluous comma.  Argument invalidated.
Oh jeez, a$$ clown.
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Dirty

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Re: SEC is not better, just average
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2018, 04:34:04 pm »

My bad, I forgot it's all about money and juice boxes and orange slices at the SECt.

Yes it is!
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