Hogville Info
• 9,562,655 Posts
• 390,652 Topics
• 22,093 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: What’s happened to loyalty?  (Read 6484 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6311/-12130
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45,230
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #150 on: December 29, 2017, 12:11:42 pm »

It is non-existent in a world where every game of every school is televised and ESPN and other media outlets/sports reporters develop love affairs with programs, coaches, and players (remember RGIII won the Heisman with 5 losses and Freeze was adored by ESPN)

Why should a HS student in ANY STATE be loyal to any particular college? What has said college done to earn their loyalty?
Logged

hawkhawg

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +198/-310
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,973
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #151 on: December 29, 2017, 12:22:31 pm »

https://realestate.usnews.com/places/rankings/best-places-to-live

Thats not what I was talking about. There is obviously less crime in northwest Arkansas and less minorities so NWA is more attractive to most people. I was saying that in things like percentage of people that have degrees, cost of homes, average income, NWA and central Ar are about the same. They definitely are the two areas that carry the rest of the state.
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

IronHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +2454/-5023
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29,763
  • AIMED AT YOU!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #152 on: December 29, 2017, 12:37:00 pm »

You've been a member 4 days, 2 of which I did not past on at all, but ok..............

What am I missing? The romanticized view of the local hero winning the big game for the Hogs? The story of the generational talent eschewing offers from the big boys like Bama, Ohio St, etc to stay home and play for the Hogs and leading them to a great season?

Look, I get it, if there is a legit sec caliber player in state, the Hogs need to get that guy if at all possible. What I am talking about though is the idea that the Hogs have abandoned huge swaths of the state, not even bothering to look for players in those areas. Guess what, no other P% teams are looking there either because there is no legit p5 talent there.

I love the calls to the radio shows wondering why the Hogs are not looking at Johnny Hometownhero  from bump in the road special rural district 5. They think he'd be great on the Hill because he is just tearing up the 2a southwest, and last week he ran for 265 and 6 td's against double consolidated don't even have a home field to play on and have 14 players on the team. Never mind that Johnny is 5'3", weighs 128 and runs a 5'8" 40. Nope, the Hogs are just showing that part of the area disrespect by not recruiting him.

How many kids from in state are signing with other P5 schools? Bohannan went to Baylor, well, the Hogs signed another QB who is BETTER as a QB right now than is GB, but to hear it here it was all racial and class motivated.


For the last time no one is running a 5.8 and doing anything with the ball in Arkansas HS football....at least in south or east arkansas


Any good 2A back is at least a small college player....he probably never takes the ACT which is a far bigger issue than “talent” in Arkansas
Logged

IronHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +2454/-5023
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29,763
  • AIMED AT YOU!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #153 on: December 29, 2017, 12:44:55 pm »

That is correct.

Southwest, Southeast, eastern, NEA, and areas of northwest Arkansas not named Springdale/Fayetteville/Rogers/Bentonville all are very similar economically.

It's a proven fact that NWA and Central Arkansas carry this state. And there is nothing wrong with that. Every state has its poor and less fortunate areas.



Actually timber and agriculture are the basis of the Arkansas economy....and it’s not close.
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6311/-12130
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45,230
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #154 on: December 29, 2017, 12:54:40 pm »



Any good 2A back is at least a small college player....


Do you know how many " good 2a backs " there are in the country? Why would a good 2a back automatically be at least a small college player?

You may be right about the act thing, but alot of that comes from the school and family environment, and there is nothing the UofA is going to do to change that.
Logged

AP85

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +127/-1296
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,876
  • Left Lane Ready.
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #155 on: December 29, 2017, 01:08:07 pm »



Actually timber and agriculture are the basis of the Arkansas economy....and it’s not close.

Oh trust me, I know. My family has been deeply involved in the timber industry for a long time and it provided my family a good living while growing up.

But some people, including NWA and Central Arkansas thinks it begins and ends in those two places. And that's false. That's the beauty of small town Arkansas. These towns make it just fine without NWA and Central Arkansas.

Remember, I am a proud SEARK boy....always will be!
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6311/-12130
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45,230
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #156 on: December 29, 2017, 01:11:29 pm »


That's the beauty of small town Arkansas. These towns make it just fine without NWA and Central Arkansas.


But the UofA does not sign their football players, so it must be that the university hates those small towns.
Logged

IronHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +2454/-5023
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29,763
  • AIMED AT YOU!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #157 on: December 29, 2017, 01:16:12 pm »

Do you know how many " good 2a backs " there are in the country? Why would a good 2a back automatically be at least a small college player?

You may be right about the act thing, but alot of that comes from the school and family environment, and there is nothing the UofA is going to do to change that.


Maybe if it wasn’t the U of Dallas in SW Mizzouri the state would have better education


Maybe
Logged

IronHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +2454/-5023
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29,763
  • AIMED AT YOU!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #158 on: December 29, 2017, 01:20:24 pm »



Here is an NFL RB playing 2A football in Arkansas.  He’s good but having to churn out some tough yards


It isn’t big Texas HS pat a cake football
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6311/-12130
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45,230
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #159 on: December 29, 2017, 01:23:54 pm »


Maybe if it wasn’t the U of Dallas in SW Mizzouri the state would have better education


Maybe

No, no. It is the menality that " we uns dohnt needs no fancy edjewkations rounds here the souwf wills asure rise agin wuhthout that thar edjewkation stuff " that still persists in many parts of the state.
Logged

AP85

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +127/-1296
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,876
  • Left Lane Ready.
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #160 on: December 29, 2017, 01:27:04 pm »

No, no. It is the menality that " we uns dohnt needs no fancy edjewkations rounds here the souwf wills asure rise agin wuhthout that thar edjewkation stuff " that still persists in many parts of the state.

Including Harrison. And other bumpkin towns around "NWA golden cities".
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6311/-12130
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45,230
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #161 on: December 29, 2017, 01:34:25 pm »

Including Harrison. And other bumpkin towns around "NWA golden cities".

I said many parts of the state. Even golden cities have bad neighborhoods
Logged

snoblind

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +683/-628
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 8,961
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #162 on: December 29, 2017, 01:47:24 pm »

Segregation is not generally migration by moving hundred of miles away. It is local by moving across town or sending your kid to a different school, etc. Why do you think lot of people have moved out of Pulaski County to counties that surround it. You fail to realize that minorities have moved to NWA. And by the way guess where Nolan lives..................that's right NWA.

Kind of amusing when he gets on these rolls since he is part of the white flight group on southern Arkansas.  NWA is more integrated today than it has ever been, the days of sundowner signs are gone.  Folks are coming to NWA for jobs, not to escape people of color.
Logged

hogginbama

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +392/-320
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,623
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #163 on: December 29, 2017, 01:49:53 pm »

Complete nonsense.

Not necessarily nonsense. Some of these kids probably read the childish name calling comments on here that many posters left and said to heck with it. They probably felt if fans could be that childish with someone who was loyal to the program and tried his hardest and it just didn't work out, how would those same fans treat them if they didn't become all world?
Logged

Hardcore Hoggy

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +54/-344
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,317
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #164 on: December 29, 2017, 01:59:35 pm »

Why are so many in state kids flipping?  I’m old, but when I grew up instate kids never considered anyone but the Hogs!

Don't look at that way, consider the flip side. If every kid wanted to go in an state school, Arkansas would have lost out on a lot of great players over the years.

Logged

hogginbama

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +392/-320
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,623
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #165 on: December 29, 2017, 02:00:19 pm »

We just got rid of a coach and AD that didn't value or recruit in-state recruits all that much. They thought getting rid of the LR games would be a major step forward because they thought the center of the state was the UA. We all know the UA is barely in AR and that LR is the center of our state. Central, South and East was an afterthought to these folks. I hope the house has been cleaned and now we can go forward with a coach that values in-state kids more than those outside AR and I hope he recruits all corners of the state. If he does this, then the in-state kids will come and they will have pride to be a razorback once again.

So the last staff has been chastised for not recruiting good enough players and now that he is gone he is being chastised for not recruiting 3-star players from Arkansas that may or may not have been qualifying risks. Can't have it both ways, either you want a coach who goes after higher ranked recruits or you want a coach who goes after 2-3 star players.
Logged

AP85

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +127/-1296
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,876
  • Left Lane Ready.
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #166 on: December 29, 2017, 02:34:01 pm »

Kind of amusing when he gets on these rolls since he is part of the white flight group on southern Arkansas.  NWA is more integrated today than it has ever been, the days of sundowner signs are gone.  Folks are coming to NWA for jobs, not to escape people of color.

LOL, not to escape color.


Quit telling yourself that.
Logged

Karma

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +989/-1947
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,772
  • Woo Pig Sooie, brotha!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #167 on: December 29, 2017, 02:50:41 pm »



Here is an NFL RB playing 2A football in Arkansas.  He’s good but having to churn out some tough yards


It isn’t big Texas HS pat a cake football
are you saying Arkansas 2A football is better than Texas high classification football?
Logged

IronHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +2454/-5023
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29,763
  • AIMED AT YOU!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #168 on: December 29, 2017, 03:03:13 pm »

are you saying Arkansas 2A football is better than Texas high classification football?


It’s not near as bad as Hogsanity makes it out to be.  Lots of kids on that tape can play at any HS level
Logged

IronHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +2454/-5023
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29,763
  • AIMED AT YOU!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #169 on: December 29, 2017, 03:07:33 pm »

Segregation is not generally migration by moving hundred of miles away. It is local by moving across town or sending your kid to a different school, etc. Why do you think lot of people have moved out of Pulaski County to counties that surround it. You fail to realize that minorities have moved to NWA. And by the way guess where Nolan lives..................that's right NWA.

Maybe you are just that clueless
Logged

Cinco de Hogo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +345/-1484
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,882
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #170 on: December 29, 2017, 03:32:58 pm »

These kids saw how loyal your type of hog fans were to the coach they committed to. Don't think that didn't play a part.

And how loyal your type fan was to a coach that went 21-5 and by the way had just as many players committed to play for.  How about we just blame it on the dysfunctional administration we have had for 30 years and leave the fan out of it because in the end we are still here trying our best to support a winning program.  Blaming a fan for the shape of s program is really pretty stupid.



 
Logged

FANONTHEHILL

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +613/-387
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,217
  • Go Hogs!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #171 on: December 31, 2017, 06:40:08 am »

Loyalty is a two way street.  This is what high school kids saw in week 11 and week 12 on their televisions or in person in 2017.  Here are your “loyal, best fans in the SEC”.  Yet we wonder why players would choose to go somewhere else.  It’s in tough times you find out who your friends (in this case fans) are.  All of the crap about “empty the stadium” to get Bielema fired.  That was going to happen regardless.  The tickets were sold.  All the end of the season crowds did was reinforce to current and possibly future players that the fans only give a damn when things are positive.  That’s not loyalty and Arkansas kids see that.  That’s another reason that they choose to go elsewhere.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 06:51:16 am by FANONTHEHILL »
Logged

FANONTHEHILL

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +613/-387
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,217
  • Go Hogs!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #172 on: December 31, 2017, 06:48:23 am »

The culture on the team, in the fanbase, and across the state has to change or kids will continue to leave and go to other programs.
Logged

Inhogswetrust

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +3676/-5271
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34,713
  • Guessing is easier than actually trying!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #173 on: December 31, 2017, 07:46:37 am »

That is correct.

Southwest, Southeast, eastern, NEA, and areas of northwest Arkansas not named Springdale/Fayetteville/Rogers/Bentonville all are very similar economically.

It's a proven fact that NWA and Central Arkansas carry this state. And there is nothing wrong with that. Every state has its poor and less fortunate areas.

I know a small town halfway between San Francisco and LA in California that looks like a bomb hit it. And it's real close to a well known wine growing region. There are others there as well. For a state that likes to brag about how progressive it is the poverty in some places is widespread just as much as other states.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 08:12:46 am by Inhogswetrust »
Logged

Rzback

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +186/-133
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,117
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #174 on: December 31, 2017, 08:09:29 am »

Ask Keith Jackson.
I grew up in the 60's and Keith Jackson was one of the first I remember that I could not believe left the state. Seems like there was another but can't remember name fight now (maybe Shabez). I would say not winning enough, not really being in the hunt since joining the SEC, ESPN, and social media have all played a factor for kids not being as loyal to the Razorbacks.
Logged

Inhogswetrust

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +3676/-5271
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34,713
  • Guessing is easier than actually trying!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #175 on: December 31, 2017, 08:16:04 am »

Loyalty is a two way street.  This is what high school kids saw in week 11 and week 12 on their televisions or in person in 2017.  Here are your “loyal, best fans in the SEC”.  Yet we wonder why players would choose to go somewhere else.  It’s in tough times you find out who your friends (in this case fans) are.  All of the crap about “empty the stadium” to get Bielema fired.  That was going to happen regardless.  The tickets were sold.  All the end of the season crowds did was reinforce to current and possibly future players that the fans only give a damn when things are positive.  That’s not loyalty and Arkansas kids see that.  That’s another reason that they choose to go elsewhere.

I've seen almost every stadium like that at some point in my life including some of the traditional powers. Heck there were games with Mike DuBose or Mike Shula as coach at Bama that looked almost that bad. Funny no mention of who we were playing, what our record was at the time and for the whole tenure of the coach, the weather, etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 08:39:40 am by Inhogswetrust »
Logged

Inhogswetrust

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +3676/-5271
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34,713
  • Guessing is easier than actually trying!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #176 on: December 31, 2017, 08:19:53 am »

The culture on the team, in the fanbase, and across the state has to change or kids will continue to leave and go to other programs.

Sure to some degree in all of those. However the first step HAD to be change the coach. Nobody wants to go to party at a couples house when they know they are about to get a divorce except the really close and true friends of either the husband or wife. I know of some basketball recruits that Eddie signed and had eliminated some schools from their list or possibilities simply because they knew the head coach at that other place were going to get fired. Unfortunately the culture everywhere is that a large number of fans are loyal only when winning.
Logged

Inhogswetrust

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +3676/-5271
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34,713
  • Guessing is easier than actually trying!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #177 on: December 31, 2017, 08:26:50 am »



Actually timber and agriculture are the basis of the Arkansas economy....and it’s not close.

You can also have those industries relatively with fewer employees. Mechanization and better technology caused people to leave farms and small towns in rural areas to seek employment elsewhere. That even started before good roads and such. Yet I bet you knew that. The thing you failed to mention though is a huge percentage of that is exported out of state. Not sure if true now but at one time Arkansas was a state that had more ability to be more self sufficient than other states. A good mix of all parts of the economy is what helps. 

Here's a  little tidbit I bet you wouldn't believe:

According to CNBC, Arkansas currently ranks as the 20th best state for business, with the 2nd-lowest cost of doing business, 5th-lowest cost of living, 11th best workforce, 20th-best economic climate, 28th-best educated workforce, 31st-best infrastructure and the 32nd-friendliest regulatory environment. Arkansas gained twelve spots in the best state for business rankings since 2011.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 08:40:00 am by Inhogswetrust »
Logged

Cinco de Hogo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +345/-1484
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,882
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #178 on: December 31, 2017, 09:15:34 am »

If you can't be loyal to your state how is your loyalty to your country, your family, anything but yourself.  Across the board this is a big problem and will get bigger as the globalist take over with your blessing.

I firmly believe you need to identify with something and for me it starts with God, Family and Country, my State is a subset of Country and just as strong.
Logged

Seebs

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +728/-657
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,269
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #179 on: December 31, 2017, 09:16:24 am »

Loyalty is a two way street.  This is what high school kids saw in week 11 and week 12 on their televisions or in person in 2017.  Here are your “loyal, best fans in the SEC”.  Yet we wonder why players would choose to go somewhere else.  It’s in tough times you find out who your friends (in this case fans) are.  All of the crap about “empty the stadium” to get Bielema fired.  That was going to happen regardless.  The tickets were sold.  All the end of the season crowds did was reinforce to current and possibly future players that the fans only give a damn when things are positive.  That’s not loyalty and Arkansas kids see that.  That’s another reason that they choose to go elsewhere.

I take your point, however this is Miami most weeks.

The fans not sitting there got what they wanted and will begin to build again. The players with hurt feelings will move on one way or another.

Logged

harrisburghog

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Karma: +110/-467
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 474
  • Hogville.net Rocks!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #180 on: December 31, 2017, 09:26:52 am »

Remember Emanuel Tolbert? 1976, went to SMU.
Logged

bphi11ips

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +4932/-3211
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14,556
  • I need help with my footwork, too.
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #181 on: December 31, 2017, 10:22:24 am »

Loyalty is a two way street.  This is what high school kids saw in week 11 and week 12 on their televisions or in person in 2017.  Here are your “loyal, best fans in the SEC”.  Yet we wonder why players would choose to go somewhere else.  It’s in tough times you find out who your friends (in this case fans) are.  All of the crap about “empty the stadium” to get Bielema fired.  That was going to happen regardless.  The tickets were sold.  All the end of the season crowds did was reinforce to current and possibly future players that the fans only give a damn when things are positive.  That’s not loyalty and Arkansas kids see that.  That’s another reason that they choose to go elsewhere.

Listen to FOTH.  Loyalty is a two-way street.

As someone said above, fans do influence the way a team plays.  We all know this.  I was very proud of the way the team competed against Mississippi State and Missouri in spite of the clear message the fans sent the team that day.  Not the ones in seats.  They were great.  It's the ones who bought tickets and stayed home who might as well have been boobirds that day.  How will the seniors who devoted their lives to that point to be out on that field remember Razorbacks fans?  Were they loyal or were they fickle? 

Amy Adams Strunk, the Tennessee Titans owner, called my cell yesterday and reminded me that the game today against the Jaguars is for a playoff berth.  She said we need to all be in our seats and get loud.  The call was a recording sent to season ticket holders, but the message is loud and clear - fan support matters.  Players care.  They work off of adrenaline and emotion, even in the NFL.  Players have feelings, too.  They are motivated by a need to please others.  When the home crowd booed Vince Young one day when he twisted a knee on a sack, he limped to the tunnel, threw his shoulder pads into the crowd, and disappeared.  His career was over.  He was a highly emotional player.  I felt bad for him. 

Like someone above, I was at the USC win in 1974.  There was no way, on paper, that Arkansas should have won that game.  But if you were there you know why they did.  Same thing in 1975 against A&M.  If one of those crowds had been in Fayetteville for TCU to start this season, I believe the season itself would have been entirely different.  That's how precarious the schedule set up.  The team was flat against TCU, and this is not to excuse the staff, but the crowd could have changed that.  Late arrivals and student mass exodus at halftime made it worse.  There was a time when the stadium would have been full and rocking and the team could have heard it in the dressing room and felt the love on the walk to the stadium.  Where was that against TCU? 

I suppose it will take a highly successful year to get people back in the stadium acting like fans (short for fanatics).  Posters here like to blame television.  Nonsense.  Watch games where packed stadiums are a tradition.  They're still full.  Arkansas is developing a tradition to pack the stadium only for the biggest games in winning seasons. The best players want to play before packed houses every week.  When it comes down to competing with schools who offer that, all they have to do is show a player the photo FOTH posted.  Would you rather play in front of that crowd on Senior Day or in front of this [insert photo of packed house]?

Logged

Cinco de Hogo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +345/-1484
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,882
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #182 on: December 31, 2017, 11:20:38 am »

It's a chicken and egg question but I do believe there is not a team ever born that you can find that developed a winning tradition BEFORE they packed 80,000 set stadiums.  The problem Arkansas has is the administration wants you to buy tickets and pack stadiums with no consistent effort to establish a winning tradition.

Let one of you prove where it has been done in the reverse.  And please don't point out that teams with winning tradition still sometimes pack the house for big game when they have bad seasons(7-5).

Yes while it's true that the fan voice is important and that players feed off the crowd it's also important that,  that same voice be heard by the administration.  It's a lie that BB was going to be fired anyway.  If the pressure hadn't been applied would the BOT have fired Long?  Without firing Long, BB would still be our coach.  It's interesting how some who so supported the previous situation want to spin it now.  This freaking stuff happens with every change and the same crowd keeps their Holy roles.  I call it what it is, duplicity.
Logged

AP85

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +127/-1296
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,876
  • Left Lane Ready.
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #183 on: December 31, 2017, 11:38:30 am »

I take your point, however this is Miami most weeks.

The fans not sitting there got what they wanted and will begin to build again. The players with hurt feelings will move on one way or another.

Miami’s issue is the stadium is Now around 25-35 minutes from coral gables. When they tore down the old orange bowl, attendance went crap.


Nebraska fans seem to show up. Even in mediocrity. Their stadium is always full and they have been in the dumps for years.
Logged

Chorizo Hogriguez

  • Bench Warmer
  • ***
  • Karma: +45/-42
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
  • Chad Morris! I like it!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #184 on: December 31, 2017, 11:40:08 am »

Remember Emanuel Tolbert? 1976, went to SMU.


need more Tolberts
Logged

bphi11ips

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +4932/-3211
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14,556
  • I need help with my footwork, too.
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #185 on: December 31, 2017, 11:47:10 am »

It's a chicken and egg question but I do believe there is not a team ever born that you can find that developed a winning tradition BEFORE they packed 80,000 set stadiums.  The problem Arkansas has is the administration wants you to buy tickets and pack stadiums with no consistent effort to establish a winning tradition.

Let one of you prove where it has been done in the reverse.  And please don't point out that teams with winning tradition still sometimes pack the house for big game when they have bad seasons(7-5).

Yes while it's true that the fan voice is important and that players feed off the crowd it's also important that,  that same voice be heard by the administration.  It's a lie that BB was going to be fired anyway.  If the pressure hadn't been applied would the BOT have fired Long?  Without firing Long, BB would still be our coach.  It's interesting how some who so supported the previous situation want to spin it now.  This freaking stuff happens with every change and the same crowd keeps their Holy roles.  I call it what it is, duplicity.

It is a chicken and egg thing. It was with Broyles. Orville Henry was blunt about it many years ago - win and they will come. And the Razorbacks did and they did, for generations.

But my point about TCU is still valid. How much winning is winning?  We play in the SEC West. Only a couple of teams are going to win 10 in any given year. We showed the cracks the last half of last year in effort that continued into this year and led to wholesale changes. The administration has sent a loud and clear message that winning is important and that the entire fanbase is important. But how did our fans know at the beginning of the year we wouldn’t go 8-4 or better?  There was reason to believe we could. And there was reason to believe we would have the season we did if it got out of hand early.

The fans missed an opportunity to be the chicken early against TCU and failed. Was that a protest against the regime or just a sign of a generally listless fan base?  I’d say the latter. It is now up to Chad Morris and his team to be the chicken just as it was up to Broyles and his team in the late 1950’s.
Logged

Hugo Bezdek

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +211/-159
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,210
  • We Played Like A Wild Band of Razorbacks!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #186 on: December 31, 2017, 12:26:19 pm »

It is a chicken and egg thing. It was with Broyles. Orville Henry was blunt about it many years ago - win and they will come. And the Razorbacks did and they did, for generations.

But my point about TCU is still valid. How much winning is winning?  We play in the SEC West. Only a couple of teams are going to win 10 in any given year. We showed the cracks the last half of last year in effort that continued into this year and led to wholesale changes. The administration has sent a loud and clear message that winning is important and that the entire fanbase is important. But how did our fans know at the beginning of the year we wouldn’t go 8-4 or better?  There was reason to believe we could. And there was reason to believe we would have the season we did if it got out of hand early.

The fans missed an opportunity to be the chicken early against TCU and failed. Was that a protest against the regime or just a sign of a generally listless fan base?  I’d say the latter. It is now up to Chad Morris and his team to be the chicken just as it was up to Broyles and his team in the late 1950’s.

I remember the crowd for the LSU game when Arkansas was having the worst SEC losing streak we've ever had. There was no reason to expect a sold out crowd based on W-L record. Arkansas fans are loyal when we believe we're playing to win. At that point people still believed that Bielema had a plan that would build into a success. When it became clear that things were unraveling for Bielema and that Long had no intention of making a change people stayed at home. I believe Arkansas fans will show up win or lose if they believe we're committed to winning and are building toward something. They will not go through the trouble if they believe the Administration is just phoning it in.
Logged

Rzback

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +186/-133
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,117
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #187 on: December 31, 2017, 12:34:49 pm »

South Carolina fills their stadium even when they are down
Logged

bphi11ips

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +4932/-3211
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14,556
  • I need help with my footwork, too.
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #188 on: December 31, 2017, 12:40:41 pm »

I remember the crowd for the LSU game when Arkansas was having the worst SEC losing streak we've ever had. There was no reason to expect a sold out crowd based on W-L record. Arkansas fans are loyal when we believe we're playing to win. At that point people still believed that Bielema had a plan that would build into a success. When it became clear that things were unraveling for Bielema and that Long had no intention of making a change people stayed at home. I believe Arkansas fans will show up win or lose if they believe we're committed to winning and are building toward something. They will not go through the trouble if they believe the Administration is just phoning it in.

How could anyone have thought there was no commitment before TCU? 

Announced attendance for LSU was 70,165, so it wasn’t a sellout, but the crowd was good and into the game.  Arkansas also outplayed Alabama a few weeks before in Fayetteville.

Still doesn’t excuse TCU.
Logged

Hugo Bezdek

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +211/-159
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,210
  • We Played Like A Wild Band of Razorbacks!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #189 on: December 31, 2017, 12:48:50 pm »

How could anyone have thought there was no commitment before TCU? 

Announced attendance for LSU was 70,165, so it wasn’t a sellout, but the crowd was good and into the game.  Arkansas also outplayed Alabama a few weeks before in Fayetteville.

Still doesn’t excuse TCU.

Honestly, I think Bielema lost the fans with the Mizzou and VaTech losses at the end of 2016. There was almost no enthusiasm built up coming into 2017.
Logged

Inhogswetrust

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +3676/-5271
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34,713
  • Guessing is easier than actually trying!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #190 on: December 31, 2017, 12:49:48 pm »

South Carolina fills their stadium even when they are down


No they do not. I've seen games there where there were plenty of empty seats. It's just like everyone else. It depends on how good they are at the time and who they are playing. That being said they generally are one of the top 20 in average attendance. That doesn't mean they are full all the time.
Logged

Seebs

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +728/-657
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,269
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #191 on: December 31, 2017, 12:53:15 pm »

Miami’s issue is the stadium is Now around 25-35 minutes from coral gables. When they tore down the old orange bowl, attendance went crap.


Nebraska fans seem to show up. Even in mediocrity. Their stadium is always full and they have been in the dumps for years.

Yep. Not sure what argument you are making but if the Hogs had a Top 10 program we could play in a sold out venue in Possum Grape.  The product was unwatchable at times last season. If that paints me as disloyal, so be it, Life is too short to watch crap.

Looks like Basketball, Baseball and now football are all on track and I will be most pleased throughout the year - regardless of what anybody considers loyal.
Logged

bphi11ips

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +4932/-3211
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14,556
  • I need help with my footwork, too.
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #192 on: December 31, 2017, 01:11:21 pm »

Honestly, I think Bielema lost the fans with the Mizzou and VaTech losses at the end of 2016. There was almost no enthusiasm built up coming into 2017.

I agree. Just saying the fans could have made a difference against TCU, and that could have flipped the season in a different way.

I’m not saying things didn’t work out in the end as they should have. I think Long and Bielema started losing fans and influential booster support long before the end of last season. I’m only saying that this season is a prime example of the difference a fanbase can make when you have so many games that can go either way.
Logged

sevenof400

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1148/-1723
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9,724
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #193 on: December 31, 2017, 01:16:20 pm »

Yep. Not sure what argument you are making but if the Hogs had a Top 10 program we could play in a sold out venue in Possum Grape.  The product was unwatchable at times last season. If that paints me as disloyal, so be it, Life is too short to watch crap.

Looks like Basketball, Baseball and now football are all on track and I will be most pleased throughout the year - regardless of what anybody considers loyal.

That might be possible anytime in Possum Grape.  Traffic in and out of there would be a nightmare though..... ;D
Logged

ArkansasI

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +527/-390
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,625
  • '89 & '92
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #194 on: December 31, 2017, 01:26:19 pm »

I can't believe anyone seriously believes Razorback fans are the reason the Hogs managed only 4 wins in 2017. If Nebraska fans are so great and great fans turn out great teams, then why do the Huskers remain an also ran - changing coaches this year just like us?  Razorback fans are among the best in the nation. Our facilities and commitment to all things athletics is proof. As soon as the team begins to match our commitment, we'll see attendance and enthusiasm return.
Logged

Seebs

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +728/-657
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,269
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #195 on: December 31, 2017, 01:50:17 pm »

That might be possible anytime in Possum Grape.  Traffic in and out of there would be a nightmare though..... ;D
MIzzouesque
Logged

SwineGrind

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Karma: +10/-67
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 157
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #196 on: December 31, 2017, 01:52:13 pm »

Flip Fantasia
Logged

JOKERHOG

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +27/-24
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 730
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #197 on: December 31, 2017, 01:56:57 pm »

Seems like I remember Keith didn't want to play TE in Ken Hatfield's type offense or something like that.

OU ran the same offense but definitely better...
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6311/-12130
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45,230
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #198 on: December 31, 2017, 02:13:26 pm »

If you can't be loyal to your state how is your loyalty to your country, your family, anything but yourself.  Across the board this is a big problem and will get bigger as the globalist take over with your blessing.

I firmly believe you need to identify with something and for me it starts with God, Family and Country, my State is a subset of Country and just as strong.

Ok, then again I ask, how will the Hogs do if all the kids in other states start to ascribe to your thinking on being loyal to your state?
Logged

FANONTHEHILL

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +613/-387
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,217
  • Go Hogs!
Re: What’s happened to loyalty?
« Reply #199 on: December 31, 2017, 02:18:32 pm »

OU ran the same offense but definitely better...

It’s a common misconception that Jackson chose one option offense (OU) over another (Arkansas).  That’s no the case.  Here’s my post from earlier in this thread.



Keith Jackson began his career at OU in 1984.  OU was ready to abandon the wishbone and throw the ball because a QB named Troy Aikman was in the same class.  Aikman started as a freshman and they ran a pro style offense.  In October of 1985, OU was playing Miami and a defensive lineman sacked Aikman, breaking his ankle. (I think it was Jerome Brown) OU switched back to the wishbone without Aikman.  Freshman Jamelle Holieway led them to a national title and he wishbone stayed in place and Aikman transferred to UCLA.  The wishbone was effective with Holieway because of the receiving threat Jackson provided.  All this to say that Jackson didn’t pick one option program over another.  It just worked out that way due to Aikman’s injury.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas