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Author Topic: What does it take to build a winning program?  (Read 1810 times)

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bphi11ips

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2017, 10:01:50 pm »

Nah, if he came here and produced 7-8 wins on average people would say it was because of this that or anything other than the program itself.

You’re mantra here has one weakness, as you are well aware. Frank Broyles won 71% of his games at Arkansas for 19 years. And before you fall back on your standard integration/rule changes argument, platoon football ended soon after Broyles started coaching at Arkansas, and the same teams dominating college football from 1958 through 1976 are virtually the same teams dominating football since.

The reality is, as has been proven over and over for over a century, a head coach can buld a dynasty where none existed. Arkansas has the raw materials. I have researched the population and demographics within 500 miles of Fayetteville and posted those numbers here in several threads recently.  All Arkansas needs with the facilities it will be able to show recruits in 2018 is a head coach on the level of Frank Broyles. That and 75,000 butts in seats at kickoff for home games and students who stay for the second half.

That is all.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2017, 10:30:52 pm »

Nah, if he came here and produced 7-8 wins on average people would say it was because of this that or anything other than the program itself.

Aren't you the one that always says it's " this or that"?
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HoginMemphis

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2017, 10:46:04 am »

Speed, speed, and more speed. That's how you win SEC football.

Of course you have to have a coach capable of recruiting that speed, so that's kind of a chicken and the egg thing.
Pretty important. As I heard Morris say recently: Speed...you either have it or you are chasing it.
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PorkSoda

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2017, 01:12:55 pm »

Play speed. Foot speed. Reaction speed. In short, speed.
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12247

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2017, 05:21:59 pm »

Actually, Bum Phillips was the coach of the Houston Oilers NFL team when Don Shula was coach of the Dolphins NFL team.  Shula went undefeated one complete year.  He was the cream of the crop in NFL coaches at that time.

Someone asked Bum what he thought of Shula.  Bum said Shula was the only coach he knew that could take hisn and beat yourn, then take yourn and beat hisn.  Summed up thats a durn good coach.
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tophawg19

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2017, 06:01:59 pm »

attention to every detail. A coach the knows what he wants to do and recruits to fit the system regardless of stars . A coach not so sold on the system that he can't adapt to the players he has and the team he is playing . A staff who work tirelessly on sound fundamentals and teaching the mental aspects of the game . Also a staff who thinks alike, has the same goals and stays on the same page . A staff who puts the same type effort into special teams as they do offense and defense and develop back up players to rest starters
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Hardcore Hoggy

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2018, 11:12:38 am »

Play speed. Foot speed. Reaction speed. In short, speed.

Yep, speed kills.
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#hammerdown

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2018, 12:24:04 pm »

Yep, speed kills.

If anything has be evident in yesterday's games, this is it.  Speed is the great equalizer.  Average 55 ranked recruiting classes over 4 years beats top 10 recruiting classes (over a long period of time).

You either have it or your chasing it.
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Hardcore Hoggy

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2018, 12:55:07 pm »

If anything has be evident in yesterday's games, this is it.  Speed is the great equalizer.  Average 55 ranked recruiting classes over 4 years beats top 10 recruiting classes (over a long period of time).

You either have it or your chasing it.

That's been pretty obviously Saban's main advantage over the years. He recruits defensive lineman that are as fast as most teams' linebackers , linebackers that are as fast as most teams' secondary and defensive backs who are elite fast.

Without sacrificing size and power .
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12247

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2018, 04:05:21 pm »

Then he teaches those defensive players how to ride the edge of every facet of the defensive game.  How to hold and not get caught, body slam and make it look like a legal tackle, bump, push, shove the WRs all night long and not get penalties.  All the time, adjusting their attitudes and developing the refuse to be denied attitude.  You saw what the D did to a really good O-line of Clemson's.  Almost without fail, that D was in the right place at the right time all night long, and while there, they were gang raping the neighborhood.  Saban had a mission, correct last years loss, show up the committee who placed them 4th in the playoffs and even sort of thought of replacing them with, of all teams, Ohio State.  Its not good to piss Saban off.
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elviscat

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2018, 05:02:00 pm »

Players 85% of the game, 15% coaching.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2018, 07:08:36 pm »

Players 85% of the game, 15% coaching.

I disagree I think players make 100% of the plays in a game...But, has a team ever won anything without a coach, or in spite of a coach, or was it because of a coach?  It's simple to just say both matter but a great coach can make a great difference.
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PorkSoda

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2018, 07:14:47 pm »

Players 85% of the game, 15% coaching.

Arkansas
2011 11-2
2012 4-8

now tell me again how much coaching doesn't matter.
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hogginbama

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2018, 10:54:21 pm »

You consistently refuse to understand what people are talking about.  Arkansas gets a certain level of talent and unless we have a coach and more importantly keep that coach and he wins at a level higher than that recruiting ranking we will remain the mid-tier team people like you think we can only be.  But, some of us keep hoping that at some point the PTB will actually make smart decisions and Arkansas can get back to at least the status we had in the 60, 70 and 80's.  Is that a mountain to climb, sure, but gosh why else be a fan if you don't cling to some hope.

The key to your post is "keep the coach". Gotta be patient enough to ride the low spot even when it is not the popular thing to do. Just because some cock-a-ninny fan base says a coach should be competing for a championship in year 4 or 5 does not make it so. The PTB need to stay out of the way and give time as well. All successful organizations hit a bump here and there, key thing is, they keep plugging, learn from the mistakes and get after it until success is achieved.  If we get all willy-nilly and scream "fire the bum" every 4-5 years to be like the cool kids, we will never see what may happen if we just stick with the road-map.
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Planetary

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2018, 11:26:19 pm »

Great coaching. It is that simple, and regrettably hard to find.
I would have to agree. Great coaching would also include getting talented players.  Great coaches know how to win big games and also know how to win games with less talent.  Jimmy Johnson took a 6-5 Dallas Cowboys team and defeated the 11-0 and eventual superbowl champion Washington Redskins at RFK in 1991.  JJ says you have to eliminate negative plays such as sacks, turnovers etc.  The teams that makes the least negative plays usually wins the game.  According to Jimmy Johnson  PA+E=P.  Positive Attitude + Effort = Performance.  We control our attitude and effort.
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Hardcore Hoggy

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #65 on: January 03, 2018, 08:23:53 am »

Nah, if he came here and produced 7-8 wins on average people would say it was because of this that or anything other than the program itself.

Over the long term, Nutt averaged 7.5 wins per season here, do you TRULY not believe that , for example, Nick Saban , wouldn't average at least 1 more win per season that he did

Now that stat says a few things, number one it says that over the long term Nutt wasn't near as bad a coach as some seem to remember, and number two it says that since we haven't averaged those type numbers over the decade since that yes coaching matters, so unless you believe Nutt = Saban , and he didn't, then you must accept that Saban or someone near his level , would win more games than Nutt long term at Arkansas.

Hell, the truth is, if Nutt had been able to develop two SEC level quarterbacks while he was here, he probably would have averaged 8.5 wins per season over his tenure. The rest of the team was there a few different times, good running game, good line play, good defense, good special teams play, and mediocre quarterback, if that.

Arkansas isn't nearly the dumpster fire program that are very recent history would make it out to be.
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hogsanity

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #66 on: January 03, 2018, 08:49:38 am »

Over the long term, Nutt averaged 7.5 wins per season here, do you TRULY not believe that , for example, Nick Saban , wouldn't average at least 1 more win per season that he did

Now that stat says a few things, number one it says that over the long term Nutt wasn't near as bad a coach as some seem to remember, and number two it says that since we haven't averaged those type numbers over the decade since that yes coaching matters, so unless you believe Nutt = Saban , and he didn't, then you must accept that Saban or someone near his level , would win more games than Nutt long term at Arkansas.

Hell, the truth is, if Nutt had been able to develop two SEC level quarterbacks while he was here, he probably would have averaged 8.5 wins per season over his tenure. The rest of the team was there a few different times, good running game, good line play, good defense, good special teams play, and mediocre quarterback, if that.

Arkansas isn't nearly the dumpster fire program that are very recent history would make it out to be.

That is not what I said in regards to Saban. HE MIGHT come here and win 10+ every year. What I said was, IF he only won 7-8 a year people would make up every excuse in the book, including saying he was not as good as people thought. At some point you have to say that maybe the program itself is just not capable of SUSTAINING winning 9+ a year. That has been the history.

But that has been most programs. Very few maintain winning at a high rate like that.
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NaturalStateReb

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2018, 11:10:46 am »

Mostly strippers and cash, but a good coach helps too.
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NaturalStateReb

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2018, 11:12:40 am »

Great coaching. It is that simple, and regrettably hard to find.

If you're coaching Mr. Ed while the other guy is coaching Secretariat, it doesn't matter how much better of a coach you are. 
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Hardcore Hoggy

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2018, 11:14:02 am »

Mostly strippers and cash, but a good coach helps too.

A stripper and cash took down Petrino
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hogsanity

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2018, 11:16:34 am »

If you're coaching Mr. Ed while the other guy is coaching Secretariat, it doesn't matter how much better of a coach you are. 

yep
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PorkSoda

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2018, 12:28:03 pm »

If the team is coached by mr ed and facing saban, it doesnt matter how talented your players are
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varrichione

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2018, 01:06:39 pm »

You don't have to finish in the top 5 every year in recruiting, but it helps.  Rivals uses the top 20 from each class to rank the classes.  In reality, it's the top 12-15 in each class who turn pro early or graduate.  Everyone needs to understand that Alabama is an outlier at this point.  Don't ever compare a class to theirs. 

We need to hit on top 10 QB.

Offense needs playmakers.  I think we have playmakers.  They just didn't get the ball or get the ball in space.  One of Petrino's biggest talents is using his talent effectively.  His offense uses routes that gets his players in space.  Crisp route-running was coached and some routes were intended to open up another player.  His routes made gaps in the defense.  In the game vs Miss St this year, I saw Jones run out 5-6 yards and cut across the middle.  When he caught the ball, he didn't get any YAC.  Why?  He had zero separation.  When he cut, he put his left foot down, his right foot down right next to it, and then his left foot came down in the exact same spot as before.  He was literally running in place.  It's no wonder our receivers weren't getting open.  They were being taught proper technique.  If our issue was speed (and not coaching) Deon Stewart should've been open all the time.  Coaching.  THIS area is something that will see a dramatic upgrade with the new staff.

The defense needs NFL linebackers.  A few years ago we had a top-10 defense.  That was when we had a senior LBer named Martrell Spaight.  He was a playmaker and was disciplined.  In other words, he was where he was supposed to be.  Having guys like Flowers in front of him helped, but the 2016 D had Wise.  Too often this past season, the linebackers weren't in the right spots.  That's why were giving up 40+ yard plays on a regular basis. Linebackers.

Get everything you can from your two and three star players.  Use their success to bring in better talent.
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colt07

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Re: What does it take to build a winning program?
« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2018, 02:43:42 pm »


It is coaching!

Look at Georgia. Right now Smart is coaching up Richt's recruits. Michel and Chub were Richt's recruits and he was OK but not great. Smart has those players in NC. I also believe to be a great coach you need to have a great recruiting system. The head coach does not necessarily need to be a great recruiter himself but he better have great recruiting assistants. Another Kirby Smart example is Jake Fromm. He was an Alabama commit. Richt's bunch went to recruit him and walked into a room and asked, "where's the Fromm kid". Saban's bunch didn't have to do much to get Fromm to commit (Smart was one of those assistants). The first thing Kirby Smart did the day after he signed was to go to Houston County and personally talk to Fromm and his family. Fromm de-committed Alabama and committed to Georgia (facts I live in Central Georgia and know the Houston County Touchdown Club president).

So a great coach can coach kids up but needs to have a great recruiting plan.

Average recruits with an average coach spells disaster especially in the SEC. (Oh yeah, right now Georgia's recruiting class in #1 for 2018).

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