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Author Topic: For every Urban Meyer.....  (Read 291 times)

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hogmolar

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For every Urban Meyer.....
« on: November 08, 2017, 09:41:04 am »

There are multiple Butch Jones and McElwains. These guys were considered to be home run can't miss hires for Tenn and Fla.   Hiring the next up and comer seems to be like catching lightening in a bottle.  For Long this hire puts him in a terrible position.  You could be a hero or you could be a goat and the statistics show that you have a better chance on the later end of that. 
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ipigsooie

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 09:53:00 am »

There are multiple Butch Jones and McElwains. These guys were considered to be home run can't miss hires for Tenn and Fla.   Hiring the next up and comer seems to be like catching lightening in a bottle.  For Long this hire puts him in a terrible position.  You could be a hero or you could be a goat and the statistics show that you have a better chance on the later end of that.

Im not even sure this only applies to up and comers. There is no guarantee for success no matter how established the coach may or may not be. Look what we ended up with last time. Its more about the right fit and the right situation.
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The_Iceman

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2017, 09:53:34 am »

It's all about fit. McElwain would have been a great hire and fit for LSU, but not for Florida. It's about pairing the strengths of the coach with the program and their recruiting base.

McElwains pro-style attack would be perfect for LSU. But at Florida, with the speed you can recruit at WR and RB, you need to be more explosive.

At Arkansas, look at our recruiting base and our opponents. We have to get a coach that knows how to take a couple of playmakers and maximize them with a developed QB. If offense isn't the focus here, we will never achieve what we need to.

We have to find the right fit. Bielema is not. Petrino was.
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Ham Ham Pigelow

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2017, 10:00:03 am »

I donít believe Butch or McElwain were considered home run hires by anyone.
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hogsanity

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 10:02:13 am »

It's all about fit. McElwain would have been a great hire and fit for LSU, but not for Florida. It's about pairing the strengths of the coach with the program and their recruiting base.

McElwains pro-style attack would be perfect for LSU. But at Florida, with the speed you can recruit at WR and RB, you need to be more explosive.

At Arkansas, look at our recruiting base and our opponents. We have to get a coach that knows how to take a couple of playmakers and maximize them with a developed QB. If offense isn't the focus here, we will never achieve what we need to.

We have to find the right fit. Bielema is not. Petrino was.

A coach that can not fix the defense, and I am not talking about making it Bama good just not like a sieve, is going to be capped at 8 wins a year because 4 sec opponents a year will have enough D to stop you enough to beat you if you cant stop them.

I am not saying you have to have any specific type of offense here, unlike some posters who claim the ONLY way to win is to have something " exotic " on offense, but without at least a competent D the program is going to be limited in success.
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Dropkick

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 10:03:07 am »

I donít believe Butch or McElwain were considered home run hires by anyone.
I think most folks were surprised Butch was the best Tennessee could do.
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Dropkick

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 10:05:01 am »

A coach that can not fix the defense, and I am not talking about making it Bama good just not like a sieve, is going to be capped at 8 wins a year because 4 sec opponents a year will have enough D to stop you enough to beat you if you cant stop them.

I am not saying you have to have any specific type of offense here, unlike some posters who claim the ONLY way to win is to have something " exotic " on offense, but without at least a competent D the program is going to be limited in success.
I agree with you here. Defense doesn't have to be dominant but must be competent at the very least.
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hogmolar

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 10:05:53 am »

It's all about fit. McElwain would have been a great hire and fit for LSU, but not for Florida. It's about pairing the strengths of the coach with the program and their recruiting base.

McElwains pro-style attack would be perfect for LSU. But at Florida, with the speed you can recruit at WR and RB, you need to be more explosive.

At Arkansas, look at our recruiting base and our opponents. We have to get a coach that knows how to take a couple of playmakers and maximize them with a developed QB. If offense isn't the focus here, we will never achieve what we need to.

We have to find the right fit. Bielema is not. Petrino was.

I agree with this in part.  To me Petrino came in at the perfect time to succeed at a high rate.  He had 4 of the best receivers we will get from Arkansas and a transfer QB that had an absolute cannon.  Not saying that he was not a good offensive coach on using them but I believe over time that we would see from him more like what we see at Louisville.  Not trying to turn this into a debate on coaches. Just trying to prove that outside of a few great coaches there is a whole lot of luck involved.  Even Harbaugh at Michigan shows this or Brian Kelly at ND or Diantoni at Mich State.  A few years of relevance then a few of not depending on everything aligning. We need a coach with longevity the see this at Arkansas.  The key like you said is finding the right fit then being patient.   
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hogmolar

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 10:09:29 am »

A coach that can not fix the defense, and I am not talking about making it Bama good just not like a sieve, is going to be capped at 8 wins a year because 4 sec opponents a year will have enough D to stop you enough to beat you if you cant stop them.

I am not saying you have to have any specific type of offense here, unlike some posters who claim the ONLY way to win is to have something " exotic " on offense, but without at least a competent D the program is going to be limited in success.
This is a very good point and one of which you have been constant on. I agree with you but people here will never see this. 
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ipigsooie

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2017, 10:22:12 am »

A coach that can not fix the defense, and I am not talking about making it Bama good just not like a sieve, is going to be capped at 8 wins a year because 4 sec opponents a year will have enough D to stop you enough to beat you if you cant stop them.

I am not saying you have to have any specific type of offense here, unlike some posters who claim the ONLY way to win is to have something " exotic " on offense, but without at least a competent D the program is going to be limited in success.

You have to field a decent defense and it's still my opinion that you do need something innovative on offense. We see Lsu every year with a great defense and they always lose to bama bc they can't score on them. The offenses that give bama the most problems are the spread offenses with a qb that will make you respect the run. Also you have to make them respect your vertical game or their safeties will sit on the runs or short routes. I am not saying we can beat bama consistently but hugh freeze laid out a good method (on the field, not off) for beating bama and competing in the sec with a similar level program. I cannot think of the last time that Alabama lost to a team that ran the pro style offense.
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Dwight_K_Shrute

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 10:30:50 am »

For every Bret Bielema there is a Bert Bielema.
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Marshfieldhog

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2017, 11:15:19 am »

At Arkansas you need to be great on Offense and average on Defense. That is your recruiting base. CBB was/is a horrible fit and is a CEO coach who can't hire an assistant worth a crap.
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Paul

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2017, 11:44:18 am »

At Arkansas you need to be great on Offense and average on Defense. That is your recruiting base. CBB was/is a horrible fit and is a CEO coach who can't hire an assistant worth a crap.
He's hired some good asst's(Enos Smith & Lunney) but some bad ones in critical areas(OL & DL).
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The_Iceman

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2017, 11:54:57 am »

A coach that can not fix the defense, and I am not talking about making it Bama good just not like a sieve, is going to be capped at 8 wins a year because 4 sec opponents a year will have enough D to stop you enough to beat you if you cant stop them.

I am not saying you have to have any specific type of offense here, unlike some posters who claim the ONLY way to win is to have something " exotic " on offense, but without at least a competent D the program is going to be limited in success.

Two things the next coaching staff needs to do:

1) be a good developer of QBs and knows how to put a gamelan together to get the ball into the hands of the playmakers. Doesn't have to be exotic. I don't think there is anything wrong with our current offense the last 3-4 years, we just haven't recruited the linemen to execute it properly.

2) build a defense focused on speed and not size/strength. Our defense now is too big and slow. Speed is the answer, even if a little undersized at times.
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hogsanity

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2017, 11:58:41 am »

Two things the next coaching staff needs to do:

1) be a good developer of QBs and knows how to put a gamelan together to get the ball into the hands of the playmakers. Doesn't have to be exotic. I don't think there is anything wrong with our current offense the last 3-4 years, we just haven't recruited the linemen to execute it properly.

2) build a defense focused on speed and not size/strength. Our defense now is too big and slow. Speed is the answer, even if a little undersized at times.

Agree with both of those. I would say they did a good job developing BA. AA, seems a bit mentally fragile, but man he has taken a beating. I re-watched part of last years Old misses game, and he got smacked over and over and over.
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The_Iceman

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2017, 12:16:49 pm »

Agree with both of those. I would say they did a good job developing BA. AA, seems a bit mentally fragile, but man he has taken a beating. I re-watched part of last years Old misses game, and he got smacked over and over and over.

The 2015 team had 10 win potential. It was as good as the 2011 team, but it just wasn't coached and prepared as well.

One big difference between Austin and Brandon is the athleticism. Watching highlights of the 2015 team, Brandon could escape pressure, was a pretty good runner, and also had a lot more zip on his throws.
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Torqued pork

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2017, 12:18:26 pm »

If a coach goes to a program with expectations like Florida having a so-so qb is like a noose around his neck. The qb better develope in a hurry or the coach better recruit one who is a heck of a prodigy. Four or five rebuilding plans obviously don't apply at those places.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: For every Urban Meyer.....
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2017, 01:54:17 pm »

For every Bret Bielema there is a Bert Bielema.

Yes our Bret turned out to coach like a Bert 
                                 
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