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Author Topic: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?  (Read 1885 times)

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sickboy

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2017, 08:33:50 pm »

You absolutely MUST fire him, no more of a choice than firing BP.

You have certain criteria and standards that are not being met. BP failed a different set of standards, but the answer is the same for both, you cannot continue to represent this program. Reason; failure to meet expectations.

Not analogous when you consider that firing someone with cause is a lot different than firing someone over performance issues.
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hotdog hog

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2017, 08:39:30 pm »

If we are going to hire a high school coach, I heard PAs coach would take the job for $75k per win. He never punts and always onside kicks. If nothing else, we would be entertaining. I think his team set a bunch of national marks this year and scored 83pts in a game. His QB was in Sports Illustrated this week. Fletcher!
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hotdog hog

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2017, 08:40:33 pm »

Hatcher sorry
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rtr

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2017, 08:57:04 pm »

If the search is competently run, we will upgrade.
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zuko

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2017, 09:04:06 pm »

I say no.  And itís Longís problem to know the answer to who he can actually get.  What say you and why?
Shouldn't be hard to upgrade. Cut it simply to two years ago when we did much better.
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zuko

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2017, 09:10:19 pm »

They just brought this up on Finebaum and they made some good points.

I'm ready for Bret to go as anyone else but depending on what other jobs open up and what coaches are left, we could be forced to settle for same or even worse for several more years.
From the beginning, to me, Bielema was a bad choice and made in known one of the big reasons he wanted to make a change was so he and his assistants can get more money and he accomplished that. I didn't like the fact that Long went out of bounds to bring a guy in with big 10 systems without any regard that we are an SEC team. There had to be SEC candidates for the job and probably one of them would have done a rebuild and we might just be competitive by this time.
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Paul

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2017, 09:14:07 pm »

I say no.  And itís Longís problem to know the answer to who he can actually get.  What say you and why?
Yes. Strive for greatness...or at least, competitiveness
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swineology

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2017, 09:35:09 pm »

Not in every situation but in this one....certainly. 

If Bert runs out of that tunnel next year, Long will be ran out of town.  So in this case, anyone will be better than what we have.

And you know this as fact?

Which BOT member are you?

Curious fans need to know
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sowmonella

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2017, 09:46:29 pm »

We might not a better coach but I promise we can find a cheaper coach, one that can win 6 games without breaking the bank. 

If nothing else, fire him as a future cost saving measure.
Why are so worried about other peoples money? Cost/salary/perks I couldn't give a crap about. The program is ALL I'm concerned with at this point.
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Wmhog

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2017, 09:49:42 pm »

Arkansas has had 25 coaches other the Bret who have coached more than one year.  23 of those had a better winning percentage.  Odds are we will do better.
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PORKULATOR

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2017, 10:34:42 pm »

I say no.  And itís Longís problem to know the answer to who he can actually get.  What say you and why?
it's my biggest fear
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ShadowHawg

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2017, 10:40:05 pm »

I say no.  And itís Longís problem to know the answer to who he can actually get.  What say you and why?

Are you really so naive that you think adís have the next hire lined up before they fire someone?
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husker71

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2017, 10:46:59 pm »

The ADs most certainly have someone hired or nearly hired before they fire someone.  We had Dana Altman in basketball remember.  Lesson is even after they are hired you dont know if they are really hired.
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ShadowHawg

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2017, 11:13:48 pm »

The ADs most certainly have someone hired or nearly hired before they fire someone.  We had Dana Altman in basketball remember.  Lesson is even after they are hired you dont know if they are really hired.

No they didnít. AYSM?

They thought they would be ABLE to get Gillespie but Kentucky opened up. They went with a search firm to find Altman.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2017, 06:56:44 am »





I've fired employees also, none that made 4 mill.

But were they in management positions? I've fired those and you never let mediocrity within the organization fester.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2017, 07:02:38 am »

Arkansas has been in the football business for one hundred and twenty four years.

In all that time Arkansas has managed to hire a new "permanent" coach on average every 4.3 years. 

It's been five years since the last time Arkansas hired a coach so the program is exactly on schedule.

In all program history only three coaches lasted more than seven years and two of the three are generally considered failures.

All those AD's:  Futrall, Barnhill, Broyles, and Long in each case knew who was available but often did not know for sure who they had got till fouryears later.

We have seen all the current coach has got.

If Jeff Long put all the names of available D-1 coaches with a winning record into a hat and drew out a random name the odds will be overwhelming that random coach will outperform the one who is here now.

If he doesn't Arkansas will just hire the random pick's replacement a year or two early.

The way it works out Arkansas should just offer a fixed five year deal no cut deal with no modifications or extensions except for making another five year extension at the end of the first five years.  Any coach who makes it to ten years with the fan base still happy should be given a lifetime contract. Do this and there would be little change in the duration of coaching tenures but the coaching debates would be cut way down.

Anyway this is all after the fact.   The decision for 2018 has already been made.

NODODY should ever be given a lifetime contract for any job.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2017, 07:30:08 am »

No they didnít. AYSM?

They thought they would be ABLE to get Gillespie but Kentucky opened up. They went with a search firm to find Altman.
I thought the search firm found us Pelphrey.  Frank hired Altman, left for Augusta, and then White screwed up everything.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2017, 07:52:44 am »

Yeah, hiring a new coach is risky business, but sometimes...

 
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dfwalumdad

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2017, 07:57:33 am »

I say no.  And itís Longís problem to know the answer to who he can actually get.  What say you and why?

you can never hire with 100% certainty but you can fire with 100% certainty.

there are any number of coaches that could come to arkansas and do a bad job. that's what bert's done a bad job. he's worse in year 5 than year 1.

what you're talking about is analogous to the nutt firing. we had a coach who just beat the eventual national champion in baton rouge and we fired him. a coach that won his division twice. we had a mediocre coach the question and it was an open one could we do better? answer yes bobby petrino.

make no mistake we cant do any worse than bert. not given his record over the last 5 seasons. ultimately that's what's getting him fired.

how much more do you need to see?
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Dropkick

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2017, 08:40:16 am »

If you did not think you could hire a coach that is an upgrade over this you should fire yourself!
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tbhogfan

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2017, 09:04:42 am »

I say no.  And itís Longís problem to know the answer to who he can actually get.  What say you and why?
We beat 1-7, 0-5 Coastal Carolina by one point.  Let that sink in. 

There are numerous upgrades out there, it's just a matter of selecting the right one.  I could name 20 off the top of my head.
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hoglady

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2017, 09:07:10 am »

I thought the search firm found us Pelphrey.  Frank hired Altman, left for Augusta, and then White screwed up everything.

Altman is really a fine coach.
Too bad about whatever happened that made him leave - White really did a number on the football, men's basketball and women's basketball programs.
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ShadowHawg

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2017, 09:28:54 am »

I thought the search firm found us Pelphrey.  Frank hired Altman, left for Augusta, and then White screwed up everything.

Both Altman and Pelphrey were search firm finds. Frank talked to Calipari but he politely said no.
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KennyForAD

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #73 on: November 07, 2017, 10:27:42 am »

I say no.  And itís Longís problem to know the answer to who he can actually get.  What say you and why?

Another Jeff Long Flunkie.    Not possible this is serious.
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KennyForAD

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #74 on: November 07, 2017, 10:30:39 am »


How many people said this year's defense couldn't possibly be worse than last year's, and that the switch to the 3-4 would be seamless?

Yes, it can get *much* worse. But it also can get much better.    A coaching change is placing your bet, and spinning that wheel.

How?
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The Hawg Marshal

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2017, 10:32:30 am »

How?
It's always possible that it could, but in this case it is highly unlikely. We can and will do better.
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OneTuskOverTheLineô

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2017, 10:38:27 am »

I say no.  And itís Longís problem to know the answer to who he can actually get.  What say you and why?

 You do not, under any circumstances, retain this current administration with it's record. You also don't go out and hire a Smiley. You roll the dice, and you build a better contract for the next time.
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Michael D Huff AIA

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2017, 11:31:25 am »

Our program has proven that when you change to the right coach, things can improve.

Unfortunately that coach owned a motorcycle.
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GuvHog

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2017, 11:36:58 am »

Both Altman and Pelphrey were search firm finds. Frank talked to Calipari but he politely said no.

Not correct. Altman was Frank's hire. Frank told Altman that he could bring a certain member of his staff with him from Creighton. After the press conference where Altman was introduced as the new Basketball HC, Frank left for Augusta, GA. Once he was gone, John White went behind his back and told Altman that he could not bring that staff member with him causing Altman to change his mind and return to Creighton. If John White hadn't stuck his nose where it didn't belong, Pelphrey would never nave been the Hog HC.
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ErieHog

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #79 on: November 07, 2017, 02:00:32 pm »

How?

Winning 1 or 2 games a season.  Losing that Costal game, or its ilk.   

This is a bad to mediocre football squad, but not a bad program.  The wrong hire can push us a long way farther towards being a bad football program.

Imagine Arkansas becoming historical Kentucky.   That's not that far out of reach.   Instead of 11-29 in SEC play, imagine 5-35.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #80 on: November 07, 2017, 02:01:38 pm »

I say no.  And itís Longís problem to know the answer to who he can actually get.  What say you and why?

Why do you cut out a cancer when there no guarantee that it won't come back???
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KennyForAD

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #81 on: November 07, 2017, 02:02:39 pm »

 
Our program has proven that when you change to the right coach, things can improve.

Unfortunately that coach owned a motorcycle.

True .. and funny.   Nice.  ;D
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KennyForAD

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #82 on: November 07, 2017, 02:08:02 pm »

Winning 1 or 2 games a season.  Losing that Costal game, or its ilk.   

This is a bad to mediocre football squad, but not a bad program.  The wrong hire can push us a long way farther towards being a bad football program.

Imagine Arkansas becoming historical Kentucky.   That's not that far out of reach.   Instead of 11-29 in SEC play, imagine 5-35.

Gotcha.  But I respectfully disagree.  To me, there is no difference there.   We already ARE Kentucky.  We already ARE Vandy.   I agree that we are a sleeping giant program and it is RIDICULOUS for us to have become what we have.  Unlike Kentucky and Vandy, we can come out of it at any time if 'Deep Pockets' would just get his head out of his butt.   I would normally agree with you that firing a coach midseason is pointless, but not this time.   This is an absolute disaster.   Its a train wreck.   It is time for action.  NOW.
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ErieHog

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Re: Would you fire a coach without knowing you can actually upgrade?
« Reply #83 on: November 07, 2017, 02:11:00 pm »

Gotcha.  But I respectfully disagree.  To me, there is no difference there.   We already ARE Kentucky.  We already ARE Vandy.   I agree that we are a sleeping giant program and it is RIDICULOUS for us to have become what we have.  Unlike Kentucky and Vandy, we can come out of it at any time if 'Deep Pockets' would just get his head out of his butt.   I would normally agree with you that firing a coach midseason is pointless, but not this time.   This is an absolute disaster.   Its a train wreck.   It is time for action.  NOW.

Both the Sleeping Giant and  'We Are Vanderbilt!' are exaggerations.

Should the coach be fired?  He's certainly merited it.

Is it a 'under no circumstances can we afford to'?    Absolutely not.

Its a decision that is going to be carefully weighed, though, and far from a certainty at this point.
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