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Author Topic: What I see is not Lack of coaching.  (Read 3605 times)

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redneckfriend

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2017, 11:45:43 am »

This kind of thing doesn't fly well here because there is a belief that all we need is the right coach. And that belief is not wrong. What is wrong is that it is predicated on some "magic" that mythical coach will bring-whether that magic is a new offense or some kind of intensity or authority we don't presently have. It's a familiar trope for teenage girls- the knight in shinning armor.

What the belief should be based on is a coach who can recruit the kinds of players to Arkansas who can play SEC football. When I watched the Arkansas defense last Saturday what I saw were players too slow to react and too slow afoot to reach the point of attack. I saw defensive linemen who were unable to put pressure on a quarterback of a 1-7 Sunbelt team. I saw defensive backs who couldn't cover 2* wide receivers. Arkansas doesn't have the kinds of players with the talent for the SEC. If we continue to see the same product on the field with a new coach then maybe the next decision the AD makes should be to change conferences- Sunbelt anyone?
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twistitup

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2017, 11:51:52 am »

This kind of thing doesn't fly well here because there is a belief that all we need is the right coach. And that belief is not wrong. What is wrong is that it is predicated on some "magic" that mythical coach will bring-whether that magic is a new offense or some kind of intensity or authority we don't presently have. It's a familiar trope for teenage girls- the knight in shinning armor.

What the belief should be based on is a coach who can recruit the kinds of players to Arkansas who can play SEC football. When I watched the Arkansas defense last Saturday what I saw were players too slow to react and too slow afoot to reach the point of attack. I saw defensive linemen who were unable to put pressure on a quarterback of a 1-7 Sunbelt team. I saw defensive backs who couldn't cover 2* wide receivers. Arkansas doesn't have the kinds of players with the talent for the SEC. If we continue to see the same product on the field with a new coach then maybe the next decision the AD makes should be to change conferences- Sunbelt anyone?

We can do much better....we have had a successful program in the past and we will again after CBB is gone
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Vantage 8 dude

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2017, 12:07:44 pm »

Why? Because it goes against the opinion of the majority on here?
No because to begin and end the discussion the "reasoning" is flawed. The OP obviously wants to dump the poor performances directly at the feet of the players. And while it's true the kids on the field have to deliver, most of the first six or seven issues he brings up are directly attributable to issues with coaching and lack of player development. And I can promise that if there's a lack of leadership on the field that's directly attributable to the coaching. Put it to you another way": (and leaving out the huge talent wealth at Alabama) what do you think Saban's attitude and thoughts would be if he saw his team behaving on the field the way the OP pointed out? What if he saw serious and fundamental flaws in player techniques? Do you think he'd tolerate for one minute any form of goofing off or not taking ANY opponent seriously. I think you'd hear him respond all that's "RAT POISON". So in the end the team takes on much of the personality of its HC and staff.

One last thing: the OP should never try to deflect the poor performance on the field to the crowd. Duh, that's incredibly weak and totally fuzzy headed. And as far as Madison being better than Fayetteville-I have not a clue. Then again, what does that have to do with any of the other issues? Total garbage and attempt to misdirect the whole discussion.
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Fan1958

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2017, 12:22:36 pm »

I saw equal or better athletes on the Chanticleer side of the ball. Five more yards to the EZ on the long Hammonds run and #17 would have run down Hammonds and Hammonds had a 30 yard start. Hammonds is supposed to be one of, if not the, fastest on the team.

That's why the secondary gets beat.  Not lacking coaching but lack of raw speed and talent.  LBs are slow and take bad angles.  They were coached at the HS level the proper angle to take so compounded w/the lack of speed the LBs are nowhere to be found.

The CC receivers got open and caught the ball.  The Hog receivers couldn't get open (CC DBs covered them like a blanket) and dropped several when they did manage to get free.

Not a player bashing thread, just the cold facts.  I agree it's on BB, but not as much on coaching as recruiting.
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colt07

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2017, 12:36:17 pm »

Been watching Hogs since 1997. HDN and Petrino were able to win with athletes we get. Why can't we now? McFadden was from close to where we lived in Maumelle. There is talent in this state and all that Texas talent is reachable.  Some are suggesting we may have another McFadden spending most of his time on the bench.

Someone earlier said CBB wants to be the players 'friend'. You need a tough, hard nosed, SO* coaching to get the most out of our players. We don't  have that.

I think our AD bears some of this responsibility also. There was a 70 year old lady who was walking thru our club seats Saturday in the 3rd qtr showing off her 'Fire Jeff Long' bumper sticker. She was getting a lot of support.

Going to Baton Rouge Saturday. I hope we don't get run out of the stadium.
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010HogFan

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2017, 12:41:17 pm »

I saw equal or better athletes on the Chanticleer side of the ball. Five more yards to the EZ on the long Hammonds run and #17 would have run down Hammonds and Hammonds had a 30 yard start. Hammonds is supposed to be one of, if not the, fastest on the team.

That's why the secondary gets beat.  Not lacking coaching but lack of raw speed and talent.  LBs are slow and take bad angles.  They were coached at the HS level the proper angle to take so compounded w/the lack of speed the LBs are nowhere to be found.

The CC receivers got open and caught the ball.  The Hog receivers couldn't get open (CC DBs covered them like a blanket) and dropped several when they did manage to get free.

Not a player bashing thread, just the cold facts.  I agree it's on BB, but not as much on coaching as recruiting.

Wrong. There's a reason they were 1-7 and it's not because they have good players.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2017, 12:52:54 pm »

Why? Because it goes against the opinion of the majority on here?

My Gosh another one!

No, because it has fail all over it...just like your school work.

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swinemaster

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2017, 12:54:06 pm »

Bret Bielema knows defense and so does Rhoades.  We have proof under CBB of our Hogs playing exceptionally good defense.  Back to Back shutouts vs. Ole Miss and LSU.  The Texas Bowl winning team was playing top 15 national type defense.  That is factual proof that with the right players CBB knows how to coach defense.

Where he has FAILED and what makes him deserve to be fired is his CEO management of the program.  From recruiting, to asst. coach hiring, to the hands off approach, to the LAID BACK culture of the program, i.e. flip flops and reggae music, he has FAILED miserably. 

What we are seeing as far as scheme is based on the extreme lack of talent that we have on defense and the Oline.  That's his fault.  It is the #1 killer of coaches in this league especially.  It's why we need a new CEO. 

I don't care if our new coach is offensive minded or defensive minded.  I don't care if he runs the spread or the freakin wishbone.  He better bring a recruiting philosophy to the table that is not based just on recruiting rankings but roster building with maximum efficiency at each position. 

In our case it is definitely the Jimmy's and the Joe's.  And that falls directly on CBB's shoulders. 
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farmhawg

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2017, 01:08:13 pm »

Why? Because it goes against the opinion of the majority on here?
No, because it’s stupid.
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drizzle

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2017, 01:28:47 pm »

Here is the Number ONE biggest problem I see. There is absolutely too much emphasis put on developing brute force strength and that does looks good in the mirror and for selfies. Problem with that is you can't block what you can't get to and you can't tackle what you can't catch. I see lineman that don't move there feet especially in pass protection, as they lose contact with their man they start reaching instead of shuffling from side to side or back peddling and I could go on and on.....

Off Season drills (for this team at the moment) should be 65% as a base on Speed, Agility and Quickness. Some players may need more and some less.

Speed Kills and what training they do now is absolutely killing the agility, quickness and speed they start with.  (amazing what a now project manager in construction can see during the summer)



Which players have you seen displaying that brute force?
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cjack

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2017, 01:31:45 pm »

I saw equal or better athletes on the Chanticleer side of the ball. Five more yards to the EZ on the long Hammonds run and #17 would have run down Hammonds and Hammonds had a 30 yard start. Hammonds is supposed to be one of, if not the, fastest on the team.

That's why the secondary gets beat.  Not lacking coaching but lack of raw speed and talent.  LBs are slow and take bad angles.  They were coached at the HS level the proper angle to take so compounded w/the lack of speed the LBs are nowhere to be found.

The CC receivers got open and caught the ball.  The Hog receivers couldn't get open (CC DBs covered them like a blanket) and dropped several when they did manage to get free.

Not a player bashing thread, just the cold facts.  I agree it's on BB, but not as much on coaching as recruiting.

It's amazing that there are life long Razorback fans that think a first year division one (FBS) school in the sunbelt conference has the same athletes we do. 

If that mindset ever becomes the majority, we will plummet far far below Vanderbilt and Kentucky football.  An AD like Jeff Long is just waiting on a fanbase that doesn't expect much.  Hopefully, the fans that care about having a winning program can keep the loudest voice.
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Fan1958

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2017, 01:32:06 pm »

Wrong. There's a reason they were 1-7 and it's not because they have good players.

There's a reason Arkansas is 4-5 (inches from being 2-7) and it is because Arkansas does not have good players as a whole.  There are some talented players no doubt but as a whole, not so much.
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Torqued pork

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2017, 01:41:57 pm »

What I see is another lame thread started by a poster who thinks every thought he has deserves it's own thread.
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Fan1958

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2017, 01:53:30 pm »

It's amazing that there are life long Razorback fans that think a first year division one (FBS) school in the sunbelt conference has the same athletes we do. 

If that mindset ever becomes the majority, we will plummet far far below Vanderbilt and Kentucky football.  An AD like Jeff Long is just waiting on a fanbase that doesn't expect much.  Hopefully, the fans that care about having a winning program can keep the loudest voice.

Could be misinterpreting your post but did you not see a 4 freshman and a one sophomore O-line whip the Arkansas d-line, receivers constantly behind the secondary and open in the hook zones?  Arkansas was 2 plays away from what would have been the most humiliating loss in the history of the program.  The Citadel loss would have looked like a loss to the 92 Bama team.

I suspect the CC coach wishes he had gone for 2 when CC scored to go up 37-25.  Not sure why he didn't.
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cjack

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2017, 03:05:16 pm »

Could be misinterpreting your post but did you not see a 4 freshman and a one sophomore O-line whip the Arkansas d-line, receivers constantly behind the secondary and open in the hook zones?  Arkansas was 2 plays away from what would have been the most humiliating loss in the history of the program.  The Citadel loss would have looked like a loss to the 92 Bama team.

I suspect the CC coach wishes he had gone for 2 when CC scored to go up 37-25.  Not sure why he didn't.

I saw our coaches never blitzing and having 3 DL against 5 OL.  I saw our coaches keeping our secondary in the bend don't break defense Rhoads (and apparently Bielema) wants.

In no way do I believe Coastal Carolina has better athletes than us.

On the other hand, I did see Coastal Carolina playing like this was the biggest game of their life because it was.  I did see our guys going through the motions and waiting on the rent a win team to lay down and play dead.  I did see life back in our guys when they realized they might actually lose to the worst team in college football.

I do agree that would have been the worst loss in my lifetime and possibly ever.  If there is such a thing as a bad win, that is the worst win in our history.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2017, 03:09:04 pm »

There you go, it is a combination of these things.

Which all starts where?
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DeltaBoy

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2017, 03:35:04 pm »

From what I seen they were giving away tickets for the game Sat.
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tbhogfan

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2017, 03:42:01 pm »

I saw linemen beaten attempting to block. Coaching
I saw three defensive linemen beaten by five young linemen, two freshmen, two redshirt freshmen and one sophomore.  Most of their runs were away from Agim. Coaching
Saw three out of four linebackers completely out of position. Coaching
I saw defensive backs completely beaten on deep and mid patterns.  Coaching
I saw a 5’8” senior QB throw deeper more accurate passes than our 6’7” developing QB. You should expect a Senior QB to play better than a Freshman, no surprise here
I saw a team with not much better talent than the Razorbacks with the exception of our running backs. Coaching.  We have much better players, just didn't show up on the field
I saw a team absolutely set up for a trap game perhaps partying too much or thinking about partying. Coaching
I saw a Stadium and fan base absolutely void of support for the players, there are other more adult ways to express displeasure with the coaching. Letters to the University for one. It's hard to get behind players who are getting beaten by a 1-7 Sun Belt team, which goes to coaching.  Can you even imagine if Nick Saban was coaching a team that was giving that lackluster of an effort?  Every player and coach on the team would come back from halftime with bleeding ears.  Coaching
I don’t ever want to hear any comments mostly I suspect from NEA so called fans say any negative about not filling up WMS. Can't really blame the fans on this one.  If we're anywhere NEAR the team we should be right now, that game is a near sell out.  Coaching.
If there is a negative about CBB it is his inability to bring enough quality players from other states to play at Arkansas. Our players have PLENTY of talent.  And many of our most talented ones are from outside the state.  This, again is coaching.
He did it for 6 years at Wisconsin. Why not Arkansas? Barry Alvarez had already built Wisconsin into a power.  There was no building required.
My answer to that is he is now in a tougher conference. Nick Saban came from that same conference.  How's that working out?
And if you want to be Honest Madison is a better town than Fayetteville. Both great towns.  A great coach can win in either.

My answers in bold.  Hope that helps.

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majp51

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2017, 04:16:14 pm »

There's a reason Arkansas is 4-5 (inches from being 2-7) and it is because Arkansas does not have good players as a whole.  There are some talented players no doubt but as a whole, not so much.

You are just so wrong on this, Arkansas has average to good players as a whole. What Arkansas does not have is a bunch of healthy great players that can overcome the Coaching they have.

Ultimately that is the thing. Give the same recruiting rankings to a Good to Great head coach who can develop players, and understands how to compete in the SEC, and this Program would be in the top 5 of the SEC conference as a whole. CBP pretty much proved that out, and Dan Mullen is proving that you can do exactly that in one of the very hardest schools to build a winning program in the SEC.

College Football is where the X's and O's are as important as the Johnny's and the Joe's. Now if the goal is to go toe to toe with Bama every year, then yes the recruiting needs to improve significantly, but averaging ~4-4 in the SEC is completing doable.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2017, 05:08:31 pm »

From what I seen they were giving away tickets for the game Sat.

Form what I saw they couldn't give them away......................
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twistitup

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2017, 06:18:23 pm »

Form what I saw they couldn't give them away......................

Free tickets were coming so fast it just messed us up...

CBB should have spent some of his 4mil to buy up all the remaining tickets so they could announce a sell out
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2017, 06:30:14 pm »

There's a reason Arkansas is 4-5 (inches from being 2-7) and it is because Arkansas does not have good players as a whole.  There are some talented players no doubt but as a whole, not so much.

It’s because they don’t have good coaching. We have good players.
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razorbackred1

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2017, 07:23:05 pm »

I saw linemen beaten attempting to block.
I saw three defensive linemen beaten by five young linemen, two freshmen, two redshirt freshmen and one sophomore.  Most of their runs were away from Agim.
Saw three out of four linebackers completely out of position.
I saw defensive backs completely beaten on deep and mid patterns.
I saw a 5’8” senior QB throw deeper more accurate passes than our 6’7” developing QB.
I saw a team with not much better talent than the Razorbacks with the exception of our running backs.
I saw a team absolutely set up for a trap game perhaps partying too much or thinking about partying.
I saw a Stadium and fan base absolutely void of support for the players, there are other more adult ways to express displeasure with the coaching. Letters to the University for one.
I don’t ever want to hear any comments mostly I suspect from NEA so called fans say any negative about not filling up WMS.
If there is a negative about CBB it is his inability to bring enough quality players from other states to play at Arkansas. He did it for 6 years at Wisconsin. Why not Arkansas?
My answer to that is he is now in a tougher conference. And if you want to be Honest Madison is a better town than Fayetteville.

Honestly, this is laughable .... something as simple as going to a 3-4 defense without the players to be able to play it! After this weekend we are ranked 92 out of 129, giving up an average of 422 yards a game overall and 510 against SEC opponents, that alone tells the competency of your coach, IMO!
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Hogvillage Idiot

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2017, 09:25:40 pm »

Bret Bielema knows defense and so does Rhoades.  We have proof under CBB of our Hogs playing exceptionally good defense.  Back to Back shutouts vs. Ole Miss and LSU.  The Texas Bowl winning team was playing top 15 national type defense.  That is factual proof that with the right players CBB knows how to coach defense.

Where he has FAILED and what makes him deserve to be fired is his CEO management of the program.  From recruiting, to asst. coach hiring, to the hands off approach, to the LAID BACK culture of the program, i.e. flip flops and reggae music, he has FAILED miserably. 

What we are seeing as far as scheme is based on the extreme lack of talent that we have on defense and the Oline.  That's his fault.  It is the #1 killer of coaches in this league especially.  It's why we need a new CEO. 

I don't care if our new coach is offensive minded or defensive minded.  I don't care if he runs the spread or the freakin wishbone.  He better bring a recruiting philosophy to the table that is not based just on recruiting rankings but roster building with maximum efficiency at each position. 

In our case it is definitely the Jimmy's and the Joe's.  And that falls directly on CBB's shoulders.
Excellent post!
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31to6

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2017, 09:38:17 pm »

Bret Bielema knows defense and so does Rhoades.  We have proof under CBB of our Hogs playing exceptionally good defense.  Back to Back shutouts vs. Ole Miss and LSU.  The Texas Bowl winning team was playing top 15 national type defense.  That is factual proof that with the right players CBB knows how to coach defense.
As long as the other team cooperates and makes mistakes.

Ole Miss and LSU had terrible QBs. Florida? Terrible QB play. K-State? Bad throws and drops all over the place.

Mostly CBB's defenses have succeeded against bad passing offenses.

The forward pass is his kryptonite. Which is unfortunate in modern football.
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TheEnemy

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2017, 09:50:20 pm »

Agree 100%. 

It’s not coaching when the player gets beat one on one. At some point the players have to man up and execute.

When one player gets beat one on one routinely....its a player problem......When numerous players within a position group routinely get beat its a position coach problem.....when multiple position groups on both sides of the ball plus special teams get routinely beat its a Head Coaching problem.
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cjack

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2017, 10:07:07 pm »

As long as the other team cooperates and makes mistakes.

Ole Miss and LSU had terrible QBs. Florida? Terrible QB play. K-State? Bad throws and drops all over the place.

Mostly CBB's defenses have succeeded against bad passing offenses.

The forward pass is his kryptonite. Which is unfortunate in modern football.

Spot on. And add to that the bowl win over Texas.
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jgphillips3

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2017, 10:18:50 pm »

We all know we are lacking in overall team speed.  However, there are some good to great players on this team receiving such pathetic coaching it is unbelievable.  I will guarantee, right now, a halfway decent new coach can win eight next year and not be humiliated, even if beaten, in the other four.  We have top 25 talent and bottom 25 coaching.  Now, top 25 talent doesn’t frequently beat top 5 talent, but it shouldn’t suck like this either.  I can’t wait for a new coach to show what some of these players being blamed for the failure can do.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2017, 04:45:02 am »

Keep this thread alive.  I’ll have a lot to say in December.
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Porkchop#1

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #79 on: November 07, 2017, 06:25:13 am »

?
My answer to that is he is now in a tougher conference. And if you want to be Honest Madison is a better town than Fayetteville.

For sure go get a complete eye exam, and maybe a good brain check up too.
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1highhog

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #80 on: November 07, 2017, 06:34:54 am »

We have the football players to compete week end and week out in the SEC, we are thin in some critical areas, this is due to poor recruiting,(Coaches fault).  With having the football players to compete, they still need player development,(Coaches fault) and they're not getting that.
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Fan1958

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #81 on: November 07, 2017, 07:55:17 am »

When one player gets beat one on one routinely....its a player problem......When numerous players within a position group routinely get beat its a position coach problem.....when multiple position groups on both sides of the ball plus special teams get routinely beat its a Head Coaching problem.

By that logic, Nick Saban should be able to take the Hendrix Warrriors (or whatever they may be now due to the PC crowd) and make them a D1 contender. 

The coaching at Arkansas is lacking but the talent pool is not that deep. Admittedly that is a Head Coaching problem.  But when your fastest back has a 20 yard head start and a FS on a CC team would have run down said player if the EZ would have been 5 yards farther away, it's also a lack of talent.
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swinemaster

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Re: What I see is not Lack of coaching.
« Reply #82 on: November 07, 2017, 01:35:17 pm »

Spot on. And add to that the bowl win over Texas.

Far from spot on.  Same Ole Miss QB that beat Bama.  LSU doesn't get SHUT OUT even when their QB stinks.  They typically have the best running game in the country.  They scored 38 on us last year with no QB.  Hog defense held Bama to 13 points that year and lost by 1. 

Yes K-State and Texas had QB deficiencies.  But that defense made teams like that pay for having those weaknesses.  This defense just gave up 31 to Coastal Carolina.
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