Hogville Info
• 9,611,297 Posts
• 391,800 Topics
• 22,127 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....  (Read 686 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ghostzapper

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +224/-414
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,219
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« on: November 02, 2017, 12:29:41 pm »

I believe the current proposed tax plan eliminates the deduction for gambling losses.  That means, if you win $5500 and get a W-2g for it, and then lose back 3 grand, you are still paying taxes on $5500.  Not sure what motivated that thought process, but it seems to me that 2 effects of this change would be (1) increase the number of people who cheat on their taxes (by not reporting or using stooges as signers) or (2) act as a disincentive to gamble, hurting the industry.  Anyone worried about this?   
Logged

heavylifting

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +24/-94
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 714
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2017, 12:47:25 am »

Probably just a negotiating tactic, but if true then maybe Trump is trying to stick it to his former rivals in the casino industry.

Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

oldman1015

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +251/-176
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,850
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2017, 06:40:08 am »

Will it work the same way on people who hit slot jackpots at his casinos and end up losing money?
Logged

ghostzapper

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +224/-414
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,219
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2017, 11:52:59 am »

Yep.  Unless they file as professional gamblers.
Logged

heavylifting

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +24/-94
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 714
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2017, 08:06:51 pm »

Hard to believe that Mitch McConnell would allow a bill with such a provision that would potentially do great harm to his home state to reach the Senate floor.
Logged

mckinneyhog5

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1455/-3648
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,187
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2017, 04:34:02 pm »

Just play offshore..screw em. Texas thought they were gonna be cute and ban legal online horse racing. Just moved people to offshore sites.
Logged

oldman1015

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +251/-176
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,850
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 06:57:05 am »

Any idea if this was taken out of the bill?
Logged

heavylifting

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +24/-94
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 714
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 10:24:37 am »

Any idea if this was taken out of the bill?

In one word, YES!!!

This is from a release issued by the NTRA --

"For horseplayers – many of whom may benefit from the reduced corporate, individual, and pass-through entity tax rates – the NTRA successfully worked to defeat a proposed amendment that would have eliminated the itemized miscellaneous deduction for gambling losses entirely. Consequently, horseplayers will continue to be allowed to deduct their losses from wagering transactions (i.e., losing tickets) up to the amount of winnings. However, beginning January 1, 2018, through December 31, 2025, the limitation on losses from wagering transactions (up to the amount of winnings) will apply not only to the actual costs of wagers incurred by an individual, but also to other deductible expenses such as travel and lodging incurred by the individual in connection with the conduct of that individual’s gambling activity."

So, for example, if I understand correctly, let's say that your only pertinent activity for the year is a trip from Hot Springs to Saratoga. Airfare, hotel, meals, etc., set you back $3,000. You lay out $2,000 in wagers during your time there, cash $5,000 in winning tickets for a net gain of $3,000. The way I read the release, your taxable liability is $0, because you can also write off the cost of travel. I don't know this for a fact, but there is a Republican senator from Nevada who faces a tough reelection campaign in 2018 and this might have been included to help him attract votes, as I have to believe that no locale other than Nevada will benefit more from this.

Here is a link to the full release -- https://www.ntra.com/tax-bill-benefits-thoroughbred-breeders-and-owners-doubles-certain-depreciation-benefits-retains-miscellaneous-loss-deduction-for-horseplayers/

Logged

kingoftherapids

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +238/-934
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,115
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2017, 11:19:50 am »

so paraphrase this... is this good for us or bad?
Logged

heavylifting

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +24/-94
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 714
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2017, 11:46:15 am »

so paraphrase this... is this good for us or bad?

I read it as good. Sorry if that wasn't apparent.
Logged

oldman1015

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +251/-176
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,850
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2017, 12:21:25 pm »

That is great
Logged

ghostzapper

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +224/-414
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,219
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2018, 02:43:04 pm »

In one word, YES!!!

This is from a release issued by the NTRA --

"For horseplayers – many of whom may benefit from the reduced corporate, individual, and pass-through entity tax rates – the NTRA successfully worked to defeat a proposed amendment that would have eliminated the itemized miscellaneous deduction for gambling losses entirely. Consequently, horseplayers will continue to be allowed to deduct their losses from wagering transactions (i.e., losing tickets) up to the amount of winnings. However, beginning January 1, 2018, through December 31, 2025, the limitation on losses from wagering transactions (up to the amount of winnings) will apply not only to the actual costs of wagers incurred by an individual, but also to other deductible expenses such as travel and lodging incurred by the individual in connection with the conduct of that individual’s gambling activity."

So, for example, if I understand correctly, let's say that your only pertinent activity for the year is a trip from Hot Springs to Saratoga. Airfare, hotel, meals, etc., set you back $3,000. You lay out $2,000 in wagers during your time there, cash $5,000 in winning tickets for a net gain of $3,000. The way I read the release, your taxable liability is $0, because you can also write off the cost of travel. I don't know this for a fact, but there is a Republican senator from Nevada who faces a tough reelection campaign in 2018 and this might have been included to help him attract votes, as I have to believe that no locale other than Nevada will benefit more from this.

Here is a link to the full release -- https://www.ntra.com/tax-bill-benefits-thoroughbred-breeders-and-owners-doubles-certain-depreciation-benefits-retains-miscellaneous-loss-deduction-for-horseplayers/

If you reflect your gambling losses as itemized deductions, I am not sure you can deduct related expenses like food and travel costs.  I thought the only thing you could deduct were your losses up to the amount of your winnings.  I think the only way to deduct related expense is to file as a professional gambler with a Schedule C.
Logged

heavylifting

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +24/-94
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 714
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2018, 05:08:26 pm »

If you reflect your gambling losses as itemized deductions, I am not sure you can deduct related expenses like food and travel costs.  I thought the only thing you could deduct were your losses up to the amount of your winnings.  I think the only way to deduct related expense is to file as a professional gambler with a Schedule C.
The NTRA release says "... beginning January 1, 2018 ... " this takes effect, so presumably this is a new wrinkle that also appears to sunset 7 years down the road. One of these days, maybe I'll be lucky enough to actually have to worry about such minutiae.

Logged

ghostzapper

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +224/-414
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,219
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2018, 07:47:38 pm »

I file as a professional gambler.  Everyone probably should if you have had withholdings because Trump has virtually neutered the IRS’ ability to audit.  Unless you are a money launderer, it won’t happen. 
Logged

kingoftherapids

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +238/-934
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,115
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2018, 05:14:29 pm »

I file as a professional gambler.  Everyone probably should if you have had withholdings because Trump has virtually neutered the IRS’ ability to audit.  Unless you are a money launderer, it won’t happen. 

Have a buddy in the horse business. he owns mares and does the yearling sales and he has been audited each of the last two years. different deal but man would that suck
Logged

ghostzapper

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +224/-414
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,219
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2018, 06:26:32 am »

Have a buddy in the horse business. he owns mares and does the yearling sales and he has been audited each of the last two years. different deal but man would that suck

Wow, that is amazing.  The ownership side of racing typically wouldn’t trigger an audit unless he showed an unusual loss, maybe through an unusually large number of expenses.  I have been audited as a gambler twice in 30 years, though I am anticipating one this year because it has been a good one.  I have converted from going to track to NYRA bets as much for the record keeping it offers in case I am audited. 
Logged

kingoftherapids

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +238/-934
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,115
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2018, 09:09:11 am »

online wagering sites have made it so easy to keep track of records. no more picking up losing tickets off the ground all the time.
Logged

ghostzapper

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +224/-414
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,219
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2018, 11:17:20 am »

Better yet, no need to track all of your bets.  Unless you are that disciplined bettor who only bets a few times a week at the track, writing down every bet and result is a pain in the ass. 
Logged

holeinthewall

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +35/-110
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,122
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2018, 06:35:25 am »

Not at Oaklawn I had to sign for the P4 yesterday because our dumb ass government in Arkansas hasn't adopted this yet.  Guess I will play any exotics off track now.
Logged

cbhawg03

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +112/-105
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,623
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2018, 10:58:19 am »

online wagering sites have made it so easy to keep track of records. no more picking up losing tickets off the ground all the time.

My mom hit pick 3 for $2 opening day, returned like $1,600.  They grab some tickets off the floor on track and security guard tells them to stop, that’s Oaklawn property.  First time I’ve ever heard of that.
Logged

kingoftherapids

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +238/-934
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,115
Re: For horse players who reflect winnings on tax returns.....
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2018, 12:24:03 am »

My mom hit pick 3 for $2 opening day, returned like $1,600.  They grab some tickets off the floor on track and security guard tells them to stop, that’s Oaklawn property.  First time I’ve ever heard of that.
thats bull crap.  i would go somewhere else and pick them up.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas