Hogville Info
• 9,495,212 Posts
• 389,006 Topics
• 22,020 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down

Author Topic: If we are being Honest...  (Read 4368 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Deep Shoat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +812/-1270
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3,999
  • The Artist formerly known as Hong Kong Sooey
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #150 on: October 06, 2017, 07:42:32 am »

You're lumping in different coaches, though, and it makes it seem the program is mediocre because we've had 2 years of Crowe, 5 or 6 years of Ford, 10 years of Nutt, the one year JLS nightmare, and now 4 1/3 seasons of Bielema.

Mediocre coaches (temporarily) make mediocre programs. I suggest if we had been less "accepting" of average coaches producing average/below average teams, our record during that 60 year span would look a lot better.

Whenever we've had a damn good coach,  we've been considered a damn good program.
Let's dig into your thought and see if that is really true.

Frank Broyles, the standard by which all are measured - 144-58-5 for a .696 winning percentage at Arkansas.

Lou Holtz - 60-21-2 for a .723 winning percentage.

Ken Hatfield - 55-17-1 for a .753 winning percentage.

Bobby Petrino - 34-17 for a .667 winning percentage.

Add all that up and we have a .708 winning percentage from our best coaches.  That adds up to just under 8.5 wins per season adjusted for a 12 game schedule.  Still clearly within our statistical average. 

Historically, we are a pretty good team.  Not great. 

That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with Coach B's current winning percentage.  For me, what it means, is we need to show patience and allow a good coach, which Bielema has proven to be, the time to build.  The whole "swap coaches every five years until you get lucky" is so clearly a failure of a way to build a program, yet Arkansas fans keep begging for it.

I'm starting to wonder if CBB is going to get it done here, too.  But based on the statistical REALITY of who we ARE, and the proven failure of the "five years is long enough" approach,  I believe patience is the only option, stability is the only hope for Arkansas to reach the next tier.
Logged

GuvHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +4848/-9498
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 46,596
  • Proud Hog Supporter!!!
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #151 on: October 06, 2017, 08:02:47 am »

Let's dig into your thought and see if that is really true.

Frank Broyles, the standard by which all are measured - 144-58-5 for a .696 winning percentage at Arkansas.

Lou Holtz - 60-21-2 for a .723 winning percentage.

Ken Hatfield - 55-17-1 for a .753 winning percentage.

Bobby Petrino - 34-17 for a .667 winning percentage.

Add all that up and we have a .708 winning percentage from our best coaches.  That adds up to just under 8.5 wins per season adjusted for a 12 game schedule.  Still clearly within our statistical average. 

Historically, we are a pretty good team.  Not great. 

That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with Coach B's current winning percentage.  For me, what it means, is we need to show patience and allow a good coach, which Bielema has proven to be, the time to build.  The whole "swap coaches every five years until you get lucky" is so clearly a failure of a way to build a program, yet Arkansas fans keep begging for it.

I'm starting to wonder if CBB is going to get it done here, too.  But based on the statistical REALITY of who we ARE, and the proven failure of the "five years is long enough" approach,  I believe patience is the only option, stability is the only hope for Arkansas to reach the next tier.


How many years did Frank's Hogs finish in the top 25??

How many years did Lou Holtz's Hogs finish in the Top 25??

How man years did Hatfield's Hogs finish in the top 25??
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

hawgon

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +375/-1107
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24,127
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #152 on: October 06, 2017, 08:10:00 am »

8.5 wins a year?  Hmmm what does that mean?  Well, unless you never do worse than seven wins and never do better than nine wins, it means most years are nine wins or better.  THAT would definitely have us in the very good range of programs knocking on the door of the elite.

I personally would take three or four years of nine or better with a year of five or worse every single day and twice on Sundays.
Logged

RyanMallettsEgo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +165/-626
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,647
  • Why not?
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #153 on: October 06, 2017, 08:15:11 am »

Let's dig into your thought and see if that is really true.

Frank Broyles, the standard by which all are measured - 144-58-5 for a .696 winning percentage at Arkansas.

Lou Holtz - 60-21-2 for a .723 winning percentage.

Ken Hatfield - 55-17-1 for a .753 winning percentage.

Bobby Petrino - 34-17 for a .667 winning percentage.

Add all that up and we have a .708 winning percentage from our best coaches.  That adds up to just under 8.5 wins per season adjusted for a 12 game schedule.  Still clearly within our statistical average. 

Historically, we are a pretty good team.  Not great. 

That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with Coach B's current winning percentage.  For me, what it means, is we need to show patience and allow a good coach, which Bielema has proven to be, the time to build.  The whole "swap coaches every five years until you get lucky" is so clearly a failure of a way to build a program, yet Arkansas fans keep begging for it.

I'm starting to wonder if CBB is going to get it done here, too.  But based on the statistical REALITY of who we ARE, and the proven failure of the "five years is long enough" approach,  I believe patience is the only option, stability is the only hope for Arkansas to reach the next tier.

Very, very good post.
Logged

EastexHawg

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +3460/-5397
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23,737
  • Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #154 on: October 06, 2017, 09:01:13 am »

Let's dig into your thought and see if that is really true.

Frank Broyles, the standard by which all are measured - 144-58-5 for a .696 winning percentage at Arkansas.

Lou Holtz - 60-21-2 for a .723 winning percentage.

Ken Hatfield - 55-17-1 for a .753 winning percentage.

Bobby Petrino - 34-17 for a .667 winning percentage.

Add all that up and we have a .708 winning percentage from our best coaches.  That adds up to just under 8.5 wins per season adjusted for a 12 game schedule.  Still clearly within our statistical average. 

Play a 13th game (bowl) and that 8.5 turns into 9.2 wins per season.  Beilema, including bowls, is winning 6.25 per season.  How in the world can anyone say a 9-4 record and 6-7 are similar? 

You want to take away his first season because you think it shouldn't be held against him?  Okay, then in seasons 2-4 he went 22-17.  That's an average season of 7-6.  Take away Petrino's first year and his average season was 10-3.

It can be done at Arkansas, but it isn't being done.  This is year five.  That's long enough to make an evaluation of a coach.
Logged

hogcard1964

  • Guest
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #155 on: October 06, 2017, 09:05:42 am »



I'm starting to wonder if CBB is going to get it done here, too.  But based on the statistical REALITY of who we ARE, and the proven failure of the "five years is long enough" approach,  I believe patience is the only option, stability is the only hope for Arkansas to reach the next tier.

He's almost halfway through his 5th year here, and you're just now "starting to wonder" if he can get it done here?
Logged

JaketheSnake

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +589/-555
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,069
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #156 on: October 06, 2017, 09:07:05 am »

8.5 wins a year?  Hmmm what does that mean?  Well, unless you never do worse than seven wins and never do better than nine wins, it means most years are nine wins or better.  THAT would definitely have us in the very good range of programs knocking on the door of the elite.

I personally would take three or four years of nine or better with a year of five or worse every single day and twice on Sundays.
No you wouldn't... most on here would be calling for change the moment we had a coach have a down year.  If we are being honest...
Logged

HawgWyld

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +318/-187
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,330
  • You're from Arkansas, too? Which street?
    • Nobles Law Firm
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #157 on: October 06, 2017, 09:13:25 am »

Operative word was "were." Still 8 games left in this season. We lose to Auburn and Alabama and win a bowl game to finish 9-4, I'll be pleased.

9-4? Who wouldn't be thrilled with that? Not incredibly realistic with this particular coach, but such a record would be just the thing to convert the naysayers.
Logged

jkstock04

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1198/-2746
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 12,734
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #158 on: October 06, 2017, 09:19:57 am »

Okay you stated YOUR opinion. Fine. That in itself should be sufficient. What I find offensive is your "rubbing a nose in it" approach/post. No one needs to be have your prediction called "front and center". In doing so that in the end it appears that's really the most important thing to you; not whether or not the Hogs are indeed successful means nothing.

One other thing: don't try to tell me that my outrage is somehow false or insincere. I can promise you, like it or not, it is very genuine.
There is crowing and rubbing of noses is on both ends. In fact, cumulatively I would say over the past few years you guys have been 10 times worse. Anyone who questions anything of even obvious nature has been met with extreme vitriol.

The OP is one of the ring leaders.
Logged

RyanMallettsEgo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +165/-626
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,647
  • Why not?
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #159 on: October 06, 2017, 09:29:26 am »

9-4? Who wouldn't be thrilled with that? Not incredibly realistic with this particular coach, but such a record would be just the thing to convert the naysayers.

Oh, you can bet your house that a segment of this place would bitch about a 9-4 record. I wouldn't. As I said, I'd be extremely pleased. We could win the National Championship and that same segment would bitch about something. It's not even Arkansas football at that point, it's just the kind of people they are in general.
Logged

a0ashle

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +155/-176
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,948
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #160 on: October 06, 2017, 09:29:50 am »

There is crowing and rubbing of noses is on both ends. In fact, cumulatively I would say over the past few years you guys have been 10 times worse. Anyone who questions anything of even obvious nature has been met with extreme vitriol.

The OP is one of the ring leaders.

Oh yes, every opinion must be cherished and lauded. The mere act of being able to put on a board any empty thought should be met with the upmost respect. No criticism of critics allowed.

See I am hoping those who talk about how they aren't allowed to be critical of the coach, would be a little more tolerant to their own critics. Or do you think opinions are only valid as long as its not a bad opinon about you or your takes?
Logged

jkstock04

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1198/-2746
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 12,734
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #161 on: October 06, 2017, 09:35:32 am »

Oh yes, every opinion must be cherished and lauded. The mere act of being able to put on a board any empty thought should be met with the upmost respect. No criticism of critics allowed.

See I am hoping those who talk about how they aren't allowed to be critical of the coach, would be a little more tolerant to their own critics. Or do you think opinions are only valid as long as its not a bad opinon about you or your takes?
I'm perfectly good with any opinion or disagreement as long as it doesn't become personal. I've been on this board for 10 plus years and not once have I went on a name calling tirade because i disagreed with someone's opinion.

Can you say the same? Doubtful...you are similar with the OP.
Logged

hawgon

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +375/-1107
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24,127
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #162 on: October 06, 2017, 09:36:48 am »

No you wouldn't... most on here would be calling for change the moment we had a coach have a down year.  If we are being honest...

NYJMSU.  What I just said is almost exactly how Gary Patterson has been doing it at TCU and not one single person on this board would not trade what we have for that.
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6196/-11742
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 44,200
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #163 on: October 06, 2017, 09:37:00 am »

If we're being honest very few college programs have a chance to be more than 1 year wonders. Very few having the resources, recruiting base, ability to get top level coaches to sustain being at or near the top year after year. Look at the top 10 rankings each year for the past 10, 20, 30 years and a few of the same names pop up over and over. Bama, Ohio St, Fla, FSu, USC, Pn St, OU. No, they are not there every year, but far more than other programs.  Then there is a group of 20-30 programs capable of jumping up and being there for a year or 2 before going back to just in or just out of the rankings for a period of time before they get back to the top 10 for a year or 2.  The Hogs are in that group. Their struggles are just a little more due to the conference they are in.

The honest reality of college football is that just like in anything else, getting to the top is hard and staying there is even harder.
Logged

HawgWyld

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +318/-187
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,330
  • You're from Arkansas, too? Which street?
    • Nobles Law Firm
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #164 on: October 06, 2017, 09:57:57 am »

Oh, you can bet your house that a segment of this place would bitch about a 9-4 record. I wouldn't. As I said, I'd be extremely pleased. We could win the National Championship and that same segment would bitch about something. It's not even Arkansas football at that point, it's just the kind of people they are in general.
That might be the safest bet available when it comes to Arkansas football...

Still, I'd hope that the overwhelming majority of fans would be thrilled if 9 or 10 wins in a season was a realistic goal. So far, that kind of record not been realistic with Bielema and the Hogs -- more often than not -- look decidedly below average by SEC standards. I don't know if fans are just prone to complain or if a 10-23 SEC record under Bielema has riled them.
Logged

Deep Shoat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +812/-1270
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3,999
  • The Artist formerly known as Hong Kong Sooey
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #165 on: October 06, 2017, 09:59:10 am »

Play a 13th game (bowl) and that 8.5 turns into 9.2 wins per season.  Beilema, including bowls, is winning 6.25 per season.  How in the world can anyone say a 9-4 record and 6-7 are similar? 

You want to take away his first season because you think it shouldn't be held against him?  Okay, then in seasons 2-4 he went 22-17.  That's an average season of 7-6.  Take away Petrino's first year and his average season was 10-3.

It can be done at Arkansas, but it isn't being done.  This is year five.  That's long enough to make an evaluation of a coach.
The point, which you so casually and repeatedly reject, is that, over time, Arkansas returns to the mean.  Even under Broyles, the standard by which we judge all others.  Petrino would have done the same.  He might have had some higher highs.  He is a great play caller.  But he would have had some lower lows.  He is a horrible human being.

If you think 5 years is enough stability to build something, go take a look at the results of that mindset over the 25 years Arkansas has been in the SEC.  Take a look at just this conference.  Almost no one fires a coach and makes a better hire.  Almost no one fires a coach and wins fast enough for their fans to be content.   The number of coaches, NCAA wide, who have come in and turned a program around in 5 years is tiny.  And most of them, by the end of that 5 years, are falling off.  Because other than perfect marriages like Saban and Bama, Carrol at USC, that crap doesn't work.  The programs who sustain at a better than good rate are those who keep a coach long term. 
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6196/-11742
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 44,200
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #166 on: October 06, 2017, 10:01:36 am »

The point, which you so casually and repeatedly reject, is that, over time, Arkansas returns to the mean.  Even under Broyles, the standard by which we judge all others.  Petrino would have done the same.  He might have had some higher highs.  He is a great play caller.  But he would have had some lower lows.  He is a horrible human being.

If you think 5 years is enough stability to build something, go take a look at the results of that mindset over the 25 years Arkansas has been in the SEC.  Take a look at just this conference.  Almost no one fires a coach and makes a better hire.  Almost no one fires a coach and wins fast enough for their fans to be content.   The number of coaches, NCAA wide, who have come in and turned a program around in 5 years is tiny.  And most of them, by the end of that 5 years, are falling off.  Because other than perfect marriages like Saban and Bama, Carrol at USC, that crap doesn't work.  The programs who sustain at a better than good rate are those who keep a coach long term. 

Give up with East, he has a shrine to BP in his man cave, a poster of him above his bed, and picture of Bp's harley on his dashaboard.  He thinks Arkansas football did not really begin until 2009.
Logged

hawgon

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +375/-1107
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24,127
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #167 on: October 06, 2017, 10:02:43 am »

The point, which you so casually and repeatedly reject, is that, over time, Arkansas returns to the mean.  Even under Broyles, the standard by which we judge all others.  Petrino would have done the same.  He might have had some higher highs.  He is a great play caller.  But he would have had some lower lows.  He is a horrible human being.

If you think 5 years is enough stability to build something, go take a look at the results of that mindset over the 25 years Arkansas has been in the SEC.  Take a look at just this conference.  Almost no one fires a coach and makes a better hire.  Almost no one fires a coach and wins fast enough for their fans to be content.   The number of coaches, NCAA wide, who have come in and turned a program around in 5 years is tiny.  And most of them, by the end of that 5 years, are falling off.  Because other than perfect marriages like Saban and Bama, Carrol at USC, that crap doesn't work.  The programs who sustain at a better than good rate are those who keep a coach long term.

We kept Nutt for ten.  What did that get us?
Logged

Hogs-n-Roses

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +727/-654
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,309
  • Coming to a Stadium Near You!
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #168 on: October 06, 2017, 10:13:13 am »

How many years did Frank's Hogs finish in the top 25??

How many years did Lou Holtz's Hogs finish in the Top 25??

How man years did Hatfield's Hogs finish in the top 25??
All time the hogs are 22nd  in being ranked   well 1936-2017
appearances in top 10- 18th
appearances in top 5  - 27th
appearances in top 2  - 23rd
appearances at #1     - 41st
Logged

hawgon

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +375/-1107
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24,127
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #169 on: October 06, 2017, 10:16:00 am »

All time the hogs are 22nd  in being ranked   well 1936-2017
appearances in top 10- 18th
appearances in top 5  - 27th
appearances in top 2  - 23rd
appearances at #1     - 41st

So even by that standard, Bert is underperforming.
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6196/-11742
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 44,200
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #170 on: October 06, 2017, 10:19:08 am »

All time the hogs are 22nd  in being ranked   well 1936-2017
appearances in top 10- 18th
appearances in top 5  - 27th
appearances in top 2  - 23rd
appearances at #1     - 41st

how many of those are since joining the SEC? 3 or 4 in 25 seasons?
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6196/-11742
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 44,200
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #171 on: October 06, 2017, 10:21:05 am »

We kept Nutt for ten.  What did that get us?

well in his last 2 seasons they won 18 games, appeared in the SECCG.
Logged

Deep Shoat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +812/-1270
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3,999
  • The Artist formerly known as Hong Kong Sooey
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #172 on: October 06, 2017, 10:24:58 am »

well in his last 2 seasons they won 18 games, appeared in the SECCG.
And that was while he was wrecking team morale, carrying on an affair, texting her during games, and running an offense designed by Tecmo Bowl.  Imagine if he had actually been a hard worker and adaptable coach.
Logged

Hogs-n-Roses

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +727/-654
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,309
  • Coming to a Stadium Near You!
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #173 on: October 06, 2017, 10:34:25 am »

So even by that standard, Bert is underperforming.
Well lots of teams are under those standards. We set the bar pretty high for ourselves in the old days. And all the posters are right in their analysis that the SEC has been brutal on us(and others). Its also been brutal for many of its founding members. Even the upper eschelon of the SEC have had several very down periods. Some were self inflicted, Bama during a few probation periods. Auburn,Fla.,LSU had decades where they weren't relavent at all.
Logged

Hogs-n-Roses

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +727/-654
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,309
  • Coming to a Stadium Near You!
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #174 on: October 06, 2017, 10:48:19 am »

how many of those are since joining the SEC? 3 or 4 in 25 seasons?
Yes  Some other interesting figures are that Bama all time is 5th,LSU 10th, Fla. 11th,Tenn. 12th,Ga.14th, AU 15th, A$M 18th.,Ark was 20th instead of 22nd.
Logged

Deep Shoat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +812/-1270
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3,999
  • The Artist formerly known as Hong Kong Sooey
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #175 on: October 06, 2017, 10:48:57 am »

I just donít get it!  PATIENCE?  4 years a 4 games into year 5 and we are witnessing the exact same as we did in year two.  I also donít agree with your 5 year comment because I have seen a lot of programs get rid of a coach and actually improve.  As much as we hate to admit it, coaching changes are crap shoots and thatís just the nature of sports, see the NFL, NBA, and even CBB..  But it is totally unacceptable to retain a coach who has proven his product isnít very good.  Do you expect him to wake up in year 8 or 9 and all of a sudden get it?  ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!  He is not a good coach and never was!  ALVAREZ was running that program and still is.  AND, his new minions average 3 more wins a season than B.B. could muster.
Doesn't matter whether you agree.  It is absolute fact, when you look at more than a few anecdotes, that the 5-year hire/fire cycle is an abject failure.
Logged

Deep Shoat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +812/-1270
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3,999
  • The Artist formerly known as Hong Kong Sooey
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #176 on: October 06, 2017, 10:52:19 am »

Also, unlike many of you, I don't think it's about Coach B "getting it".  He proved he was the real deal at Wisconsin.  IMHO, we WILL get there once the OL solidifies and we become comfortable in the 3-4.  The OL deal is a combination of adjusting the type of athlete he needs coupled with the complete shift from mauler coaching to technical coaching.

the D is just a matter of time.  I believe we are recruiting well enough to win with the last couple of classes. 
Logged

Vantage 8 dude

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +983/-2287
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 11,039
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #177 on: October 06, 2017, 10:57:00 am »

And, as long as we are discussing honesty; someone please tell me what long enough and stability in a program is?  Is stability 7, 8 years and constant 7-6 records to go along with fights in the locker room making it out to the public?  None of this is what I call stability or success.  This season provided a golden opportunity for this program to take a step forward and I expect it to or BB should be GONE!  The SEC as we knew it is no more.  Look at the teams in the West:

1.  Bama:  well, no need to address them, same song different verse.
2.  aTm:  Dumpster Fire who had a freshman QB who canít hit the broad side of a barn.
3.  LSU:  Oh my goodness what a mess!
4.  Ole Miss:  just pitiful and going to get worse.
5.  Auburn:  Nice team, played the champs to an 8 pt loss.
6.  Miss St:  Not the world beater displayed against a terrible LSU team.

So tell me again why we should not go 9-3 this season.  We should not have lost to TCU, I donít care where they are ranked right now.  We should not have lost to aTm.  Losing to Bama, Auburn, and LSU was acceptable to me but now losing to LSU isnít!  If BB canít will this team to 8-4 this season he should be toast!
While I'll most certainly agree that (again) we should have beaten TAM, still trying to form a firm opinion about TCU. As for future SEC games this season I prefer to wait and let things unfold before rendering further judgement.
Logged

HawgWyld

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +318/-187
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,330
  • You're from Arkansas, too? Which street?
    • Nobles Law Firm
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #178 on: October 06, 2017, 11:02:30 am »

Also, unlike many of you, I don't think it's about Coach B "getting it".  He proved he was the real deal at Wisconsin.  IMHO, we WILL get there once the OL solidifies and we become comfortable in the 3-4.  The OL deal is a combination of adjusting the type of athlete he needs coupled with the complete shift from mauler coaching to technical coaching.

the D is just a matter of time.  I believe we are recruiting well enough to win with the last couple of classes. 

I suppose how much faith one puts in Bielema has to do with whether one believes a run-oriented offense is appropriate in the SEC. Frankly, his declaration at the press conference where Bielema was announced as the new head coach that Arkansas was going to feature a "downhill running" offense concerned me greatly. That comment was a bit too Nuttish...
Logged

Hogs-n-Roses

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +727/-654
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,309
  • Coming to a Stadium Near You!
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #179 on: October 06, 2017, 11:11:41 am »

So replacing a coach after 5 seasons who’s win ceiling is 7 games has proven to be an abject failure?  What would you call a coach with a 27-28 overall and 10-23 conference record?  My friend that’s called an abject failure on any standard.  I’m just saying, the longer he stays, because nothing is going to improve, the longer it’s going to take to right the ship.  This season should end as a minimum 8-4 and a bowl game.  If he can’t pull that off against an obviously putrid SEC this season, he NEVER will!
It has been a miserable failure so far. But such is the life for many in the SEC. The other side has valid points. We don't know but what this thing might turn around in a couple of years and take off and us be the next Va. Tech. I have argued for the 4-5 year trial then move on system after the Nutt ordeal. It just looked to me like he could never get us out of the 25 year SEC drought. Who knows. Its all speculation. The coach B. way may get it done. We may hire the next Bobby P. out there whos not as arrogant and realizes he needs a real defense , hires the right D-co. and off we go.
Logged

hogsanity

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +6196/-11742
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 44,200
  • Is there a problem here?
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #180 on: October 06, 2017, 11:12:57 am »

Yes  Some other interesting figures are that Bama all time is 5th,LSU 10th, Fla. 11th,Tenn. 12th,Ga.14th, AU 15th, A$M 18th.,Ark was 20th instead of 22nd.

So, in terms of all time season being ranked, the Hogs at 20 are still 8th in the SEC.
Logged

Hogs-n-Roses

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +727/-654
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,309
  • Coming to a Stadium Near You!
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #181 on: October 06, 2017, 11:37:03 am »

So, in terms of all time season being ranked, the Hogs at 20 are still 8th in the SEC.
yes, You know all the other usual characters. tOSU,Okla., Texas,Mich.,USC,FL. State,Penn State, Notre Dame,Nebraska.....
Logged

HawgWyld

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +318/-187
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,330
  • You're from Arkansas, too? Which street?
    • Nobles Law Firm
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #182 on: October 06, 2017, 11:42:30 am »

It sounded a little Nuttish but I was all in.  LSU has been doing it for years.  I jumped off his boat for good after Toledo.  And now the O Line is a mess, the special teams are not special, and he just doesnít get the fact that he MUST have speed to compete in the SEC.  All of these players are his and they just donít look good to me.  He has HIS team and we are still discussing the same topics we were in year two.  What gives?

The primary problem so far is that the Razorbacks just don't look competitive in the SEC. Will Bielema get us to that point? I doubt it, but I well understand why some people are saying fans should be patient and wait -- like it or not, the chances are good that we'll have Bielema next year (at least). In this kind of environment, then, fans can either gripe or hope for the best.
Logged

Hogs-n-Roses

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +727/-654
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,309
  • Coming to a Stadium Near You!
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #183 on: October 06, 2017, 12:01:38 pm »

Some other honest figures that get played both ways round here. SWC vs SEC. 58% SEC wins vs 42 % SWC. I didn't think the SWC had a 42 % win ratio. Thought it was worse. There were 17 ties. Didn't know how to figure that in.
Logged

From Tusk Till Dawn

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +10/-16
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 537
  • Facts are stubborn things...
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #184 on: October 06, 2017, 02:13:04 pm »

The SEC is down this year but...  we are in the SEC.  So whenever the rest of conference is down that means we should automatically be better (when our recruiting rankings are middle of pack at best)?

Seasons not over folks, lots of ball to play.  I think everyone agrees SC is a must win so looking fwd to a good game.
Logged

Deep Shoat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +812/-1270
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3,999
  • The Artist formerly known as Hong Kong Sooey
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #185 on: October 06, 2017, 02:45:38 pm »

I suppose how much faith one puts in Bielema has to do with whether one believes a run-oriented offense is appropriate in the SEC. Frankly, his declaration at the press conference where Bielema was announced as the new head coach that Arkansas was going to feature a "downhill running" offense concerned me greatly. That comment was a bit too Nuttish...
I believe you don't win titles unless you can run the ball and play defense.  I don't mean run the ball exclusively, and neither does Coach B.  He's always been about balance.  He may not succeed here.  But if we bring in some weak sauce Air Raid style coach, we are done. 
Logged

gchamblee

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +321/-669
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4,036
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #186 on: October 06, 2017, 08:46:41 pm »

How do you know?  It seemed to work for Ole Miss against Bama!  Of course, until this year.  The bottom line is this.  We are not going to get the talent Bama, Auburn, and GA get so itís going to take an innovative offense and some creativity to compete with them.  We will NEVER line up and play smash mouth and do it, period.....

johnny football worked against bama along with incredible luck. throwing the ball every down is not innovative so quit using that word.
Logged

BigE_23

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +243/-331
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,606
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #187 on: October 06, 2017, 08:48:39 pm »

I believe you don't win titles unless you can run the ball and play defense.  I don't mean run the ball exclusively, and neither does Coach B.  He's always been about balance.  He may not succeed here.  But if we bring in some weak sauce Air Raid style coach, we are done. 

He may not succeed here?? HE ISN'T SUCCEEDING HERE!!!!

And please define "weak sauce air raid coach"?? First of all, who's advocating that we go to an air raid offense? But second, do you mean a coach like the one we fired who was doing great here, or the ones that are currently doing well across the country (Gundy, Leach, etc.)??
Logged

gchamblee

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +321/-669
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4,036
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #188 on: October 06, 2017, 09:00:24 pm »

He may not succeed here?? HE ISN'T SUCCEEDING HERE!!!!

And please define "weak sauce air raid coach"?? First of all, who's advocating that we go to an air raid offense? But second, do you mean a coach like the one we fired who was doing great here, or the ones that are currently doing well across the country (Gundy, Leach, etc.)??

lol. drama queen
Logged

BigE_23

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +243/-331
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,606
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #189 on: October 06, 2017, 09:22:08 pm »

Logged

JaketheSnake

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +589/-555
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,069
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #190 on: October 06, 2017, 09:44:05 pm »

NYJMSU.  What I just said is almost exactly how Gary Patterson has been doing it at TCU and not one single person on this board would not trade what we have for that.
NINJMSU.  People get tired of waiting on the microwave.  If coaches don't win this weekend, then part of the fan base will be calling for heads.  Any school...
Logged

BigE_23

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Karma: +243/-331
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,606
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #191 on: October 06, 2017, 09:52:57 pm »

NINJMSU.  People get tired of waiting on the microwave.  If coaches don't win this weekend, then part of the fan base will be calling for heads.  Any school...

I don't disagree with you that fans can tend to get impatient...but what we've experienced in the past few years at Arkansas under Bert is unique.

For instance, losses to inferior opponents, second half collapses, numerous 50+ blowout losses (the most recent in his 4th year) and the fact that he is 0-5 against a historical rival are all things that make our situation a little bit different, wouldn't you say?
Logged

JaketheSnake

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +589/-555
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,069
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #192 on: October 06, 2017, 09:56:54 pm »

I don't disagree with you that fans can tend to get impatient...but what we've experienced in the past few years at Arkansas under Bert is unique.

For instance, losses to inferior opponents, second half collapses, numerous 50+ blowout losses (the most recent in his 4th year) and the fact that he is 0-5 against a historical rival are all things that make our situation a little bit different, wouldn't you say?
Not disagreeing with this at all.  But if/when we can him, we all know there is no anonymous choice to replace, so a small percentage of the fan base is already against him.  Then he loses a game and that number grows, and the original haters come on here touting  that they saw this coming, yada yada yada.  We need to be more patient.  Is 5 years enough to really rebuild a program in bad shape?  I don't get paid enough to answer that. Will it be after CBB is gone? 
Logged

HoginMemphis

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +5025/-6940
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 20,451
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #193 on: October 07, 2017, 09:59:11 am »

While we are being honest versus our usually dishonest nature here, Hogville will turn into Meltdown Central if the Hogs lose to this bad SC team. And winning this game will not make Bielema's job any more secure but losing it will certainly secure the loss of his current job at season's end.
Logged

Vantage 8 dude

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +983/-2287
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 11,039
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #194 on: October 07, 2017, 10:10:25 am »

While we are being honest versus our usually dishonest nature here, Hogville will turn into Meltdown Central if the Hogs lose to this bad SC team. And winning this game will not make Bielema's job any more secure but losing it will certainly secure the loss of his current job at season's end.
Well, well I honestly can't believe that you and I are actually agreeing on something for a (huge) change. I suppose that means that indeed miracles DO still happen. ;)
Logged

Vantage 8 dude

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +983/-2287
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 11,039
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #195 on: October 07, 2017, 10:18:52 am »

Oh, and Iíll say it again, I think we win today and should win all but 2 remaining games.  If not, Iíll keep my pitch fork sharp!  WPS!!!  You see, Iím a fan of the Hogs, not ANY coach with a 10-23 conference record, like a lot on the site!  Some are so wrapped up in a man crush with the coach that they are willing to sacrifice our beloved Hogs for him.  Just being honest!
Sorry, but just because some of us want to see the coach, and this does NOT just mean CBB, succeed for the sake of the team and program this somehow classifies us as having a "man crush" on said individual? I have no particular personal feelings, except he seems to be a pretty nice guy, concerning Bret. If he does well then obviously I'm happy and hope we can retain him as long as possible. However, it he doesn't then it very well may be time to move on. In the meantime I'll continue to support my alma mater, team and staff (as I've always tried to do) because that's who we're working with at the moment. If that qualifies as a "man crush" in your eyes then so be it. However, if it does then I really could give a damn.
Logged

gchamblee

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +321/-669
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4,036
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #196 on: October 07, 2017, 12:00:02 pm »

While we are being honest versus our usually dishonest nature here, Hogville will turn into Meltdown Central if the Hogs lose to this bad SC team. And winning this game will not make Bielema's job any more secure but losing it will certainly secure the loss of his current job at season's end.

no need to announce your intentions for next week. everyone here knows youre going to have hatesex with jeff and bret in every thread regardless of what happens today.
Logged

Vantage 8 dude

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +983/-2287
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 11,039
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #197 on: October 07, 2017, 12:04:00 pm »

no need to announce your intentions for next week. everyone here knows youre going to have hatesex with jeff and bret in every thread regardless of what happens today.
One thing far more predictable than the sun rising in the east, setting in the west. Nice to know some things can most definitely be counted on no matter what.
Logged

HognitiveDissonance

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +507/-896
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,330
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #198 on: October 07, 2017, 12:49:58 pm »

They would have to repeat 2015 and close the season on a hot note. Won 6 of 7 in 2015.
After the Auburn game, it is certainly possible, considering the way LSU is playing. All those games are 'winnable'.
Do something like that and a lot of people would climb back on the wagon.
Logged

EulessHog

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +93/-460
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 599
Re: If we are being Honest...
« Reply #199 on: October 07, 2017, 12:54:40 pm »

They would have to repeat 2015 and close the season on a hot note. Won 6 of 7 in 2015.
After the Auburn game, it is certainly possible, considering the way LSU is playing. All those games are 'winnable'.
Do something like that and a lot of people would climb back on the wagon.

3 or 4 wins this year will get Long fired for negotiating such a miserable deal.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas