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Author Topic: Call it High School if you wish.  (Read 3654 times)

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Piggfoot

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2017, 11:46:50 am »

Going back to 2002, using rivals' recruiting rankings, Auburn averages recruiting classes in the top 10, and Arkansas averages classes in the mid-20s. Since 2005, the record in the series is 6–6. According to your theory, Auburn should be 12–0, correct?
You have gone all the way back to Terry Bowden, Chizick, and Tuberville.
If you wish to stay on topic, make a  comparison going  back to when Malzahn and Bielema started coaching. Auburn has won 3 out of four games since 2013. They lead the overall series 14-11-1
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Ben

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2017, 01:41:15 pm »

Some of you forget that Gus ran that same offense while he was OC here.  Worked pretty well if I recall.
Boom...but don't let facts get in their way
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Ben

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2017, 01:49:35 pm »

you can say jimmy's and joe's, but last year, Auburn's players were NOT "56-3" better than Arkansas. Gus is a good coach and his resume shows it.
-success in 06 as Arkansas' OC when they were the last 2 games from playing in a national title
-07-08 with Tulsa having the most prolific offense in the NCAA behind Texas Tech, and producing now NFL player Charles Clay
-improving Auburn's offense, producing a Heisman winner, and winning a national title as an OC
-Going 9-3 at ASU
-Winning the SEC and going to the National title in his first year at Head Coach
-Went to the Sugar Bowl last year.

Calling a spade a spade, he is a pretty good coach. The Ex-Girlfriend mindset of a lot of hog fans for Malzahn though doesn't allow them to see that though.
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hogsanity

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2017, 02:30:49 pm »

you can say jimmy's and joe's, but last year, Auburn's players were NOT "56-3" better than Arkansas. Gus is a good coach and his resume shows it.
-success in 06 as Arkansas' OC when they were the last 2 games from playing in a national title
-07-08 with Tulsa having the most prolific offense in the NCAA behind Texas Tech, and producing now NFL player Charles Clay
-improving Auburn's offense, producing a Heisman winner, and winning a national title as an OC
-Going 9-3 at ASU
-Winning the SEC and going to the National title in his first year at Head Coach
-Went to the Sugar Bowl last year.

Calling a spade a spade, he is a pretty good coach. The Ex-Girlfriend mindset of a lot of hog fans for Malzahn though doesn't allow them to see that though.

And you can ignore that his 3 best seasons at Aub he had Cam Newton and Nick Marshall.  What did he do there without either of those 2?

Gus is another example of what I find so funny about who is considered a good+ coach. They are great when they have great players, what are they when they do not? What has Gus done at Aub without having a QB perfectly suited to be used as a battering ram 20 times a game? 
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Ben

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2017, 03:50:34 pm »

And you can ignore that his 3 best seasons at Aub he had Cam Newton and Nick Marshall.  What did he do there without either of those 2?

Gus is another example of what I find so funny about who is considered a good+ coach. They are great when they have great players, what are they when they do not? What has Gus done at Aub without having a QB perfectly suited to be used as a battering ram 20 times a game?
Why Ignore? He had them and coached them. We don't know how they would have done in another system with another team and coach. Idk why people here always try to edit out something to make a coach or team look better/worse. Cam and Nick thrived under Malzahn's system and went to the championship. Marshall wasn't even a QB at UGA before transferring to Juco and then to Auburn.

 You take those two away, he just went to the Sugar Bowl last year.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2017, 07:35:24 pm »

You have gone all the way back to Terry Bowden, Chizick, and Tuberville.
If you wish to stay on topic, make a  comparison going  back to when Malzahn and Bielema started coaching. Auburn has won 3 out of four games since 2013. They lead the overall series 14-11-1

What's the topic, genius? 

The topic was Malzahn's offense.  hogsanity is a single issue poster.  His single issue is that the Razorbacks are average.  So he derailed the thread to suggest that Arkansas doesn't have the personnel to defeat Auburn and suggest that they never have and never will.  The problem with his theory is that the SEC record between the teams is 13-11-1.  Rivals rankings on-line go back to 2002.  The average rankings I posted are accurate.  So explain to us why we somehow manage to beat Auburn about half the time in the SEC. 

Malzahn's offense is based on deception no more than any other read offense.  Malzahn's staff makes the first read.  The QB then makes pre-and-post snap reads.  hogsanity is right about one thing - Malzahn's offense depends upon the QB - for two things - he must make the right read, and when that read is to keep the ball, he has to be able to run effectively.  He doesn't have to be able to throw exceptionally well, but he does have to be able to throw well enough.  See Nick Marshall.  The offense is based on the ability to run the ball between the tackles.  It's a belly read offense, just like the wishbone.  If Auburn can establish the middle, the defense must keep the linebackers in for run support.  When the linebackers commit to the middle, the QB has run options.  If the secondary comes up to stop the QB, receivers will exploit the creases and the back of the defense.  If an offense like Malzahn's establishes the middle, and has the personnel, as hogsanity correctly states, it is extremely difficult to stop.  Malzahn didn't invent the offense.  Malzahn, Chip Kelly, Rich Rodriguez, et al., spread the defense but use an option system rooted in the wing T and belly series made popular by Frank Broyles at Arkansas in the early 60s and extended to the wishbone by Emory Bellard.  The wishbone morphed into the flexbone in the 80s - see Quinn Grovey.  It is still in use from a variety of formations - see Paul Johnson and the service academies. 

Contrary to hogsanity's assertion, the read-option spread does not require superior personnel.  It is exactly the opposite.  The object of the game of football is to aquire a one person advantage at the point of attack.  That object applies to offense and defense.  On offense, one way to acquire that advantage, especially when you are inferior to your opponent physically, is to have the QB eliminate one or more players through a read.  Pretty simple in theory, not as easy in practice.

And Auburn won the only meeting outside of SEC play - the 1984 Liberty Bowl.  Bo Jackson made the key play in a 21-14 Auburn victory. That game is irrelevant here but does, once again, show there is little difference historically between Auburn and Arkansas head-to-head.


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lakecityhog

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2017, 08:00:53 pm »

Bphil, while your post was absolutely on target it was a total waste of time, Sanity is one of those basketball refs that hates sports and truly thinks cause he pulls on a striped shirt that he actually knows something about sports.

Football is a game of matchups or better phrased miss matches. When the play caller can design a formation that forces a MLB to cover a WR he has done his job and MOST of the time he will be successful.

I remember a particular play against Bama last year or maybe year before last, Kiffin called a play and when he saw our defensive alignment he raised his arms for a TD before the ball was even snapped. HE WAS RIGHT!!! He saw the match-up and knew they had the upper hand.

People forget just how potent our offense was when Gus was calling the plays and we were running "his" O. Most of the anti-Gus people are either Nutt fans or feel jilted and can't get over it. Gus is a very good coach.
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Hoggish1

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grayhawg

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2017, 08:13:57 pm »

Bphil, while your post was absolutely on target it was a total waste of time, Sanity is one of those basketball refs that hates sports and truly thinks cause he pulls on a striped shirt that he actually knows something about sports.

Football is a game of matchups or better phrased miss matches. When the play caller can design a formation that forces a MLB to cover a WR he has done his job and MOST of the time he will be successful.

I remember a particular play against Bama last year or maybe year before last, Kiffin called a play and when he saw our defensive alignment he raised his arms for a TD before the ball was even snapped. HE WAS RIGHT!!! He saw the match-up and knew they had the upper hand.

People forget just how potent our offense was when Gus was calling the plays and we were running "his" O. Most of the anti-Gus people are either Nutt fans or feel jilted and can't get over it. Gus is a very good coach.
Gus love belongs on an Auburn board not here.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2017, 08:16:45 pm »

Bphil, while your post was absolutely on target it was a total waste of time, Sanity is one of those basketball refs that hates sports and truly thinks cause he pulls on a striped shirt that he actually knows something about sports.

Football is a game of matchups or better phrased miss matches. When the play caller can design a formation that forces a MLB to cover a WR he has done his job and MOST of the time he will be successful.

I remember a particular play against Bama last year or maybe year before last, Kiffin called a play and when he saw our defensive alignment he raised his arms for a TD before the ball was even snapped. HE WAS RIGHT!!! He saw the match-up and knew they had the upper hand.

People forget just how potent our offense was when Gus was calling the plays and we were running "his" O. Most of the anti-Gus people are either Nutt fans or feel jilted and can't get over it. Gus is a very good coach.

I won't judge sanity but he is one hard headed hombre.

You did a good job illustrating what I meant when I said the coaching staff makes the first read and signal the play based on matchups. The QB takes it from there.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2017, 08:18:02 pm »

Gus love belongs on an Auburn board not here.

It's obvious football discussion doesn't.
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lakecityhog

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2017, 08:24:03 pm »

Do you feel jilted?
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(notOM)Rebel123

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2017, 09:10:48 pm »

Wasn't Reggie Herring the one who called it "high school"?
Take it up with him.
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31to6

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2017, 09:34:00 pm »

Wasn't Reggie Herring the one who called it "high school"?
Take it up with him.

Exactly.

Gusbusguys: Can you show me on the doll where Reggie touched you?

Seriously. Some people need to let it go.

Gus has a *very, very simple* offense that can work *really, really well* if you have the right pieces in place.

If you do not, it is super-bad.

Do you want a team that wins 4 and then wins 10? Because that is Gus' offense. There is a reason he has a new JUCO/transfer QB every year. He can neither recruit nor develop the position. All he can do is work with either a) a generational athlete or b) someone else's finished product.

Gus is a fine coach for the right program. He certainly was better than HDN at producing with DMAC/Felix/Peyton.

But if he were at Arkansas we would have burned him at the stake by now because he would have failed epically to produce with the stable of 4* Pro QB's that the state of Arkansas produces.
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Piggfoot

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2017, 08:46:22 am »

Exactly.

Gusbusguys: Can you show me on the doll where Reggie touched you?

Seriously. Some people need to let it go.

Gus has a *very, very simple* offense that can work *really, really well* if you have the right pieces in place.

If you do not, it is super-bad.

Do you want a team that wins 4 and then wins 10? Because that is Gus' offense. There is a reason he has a new JUCO/transfer QB every year. He can neither recruit nor develop the position. All he can do is work with either a) a generational athlete or b) someone else's finished product.

Gus is a fine coach for the right program. He certainly was better than HDN at producing with DMAC/Felix/Peyton.

But if he were at Arkansas we would have burned him at the stake by now because he would have failed epically to produce with the stable of 4* Pro QB's that the state of Arkansas produces.
Your opinion. Every coach needs players to play his system. If He doesnt have them then he has fans like Hogville screaming for his hide.
The positive thing about Gus is he has found his players. He's not alone in using developed players for his team. I point out Tretola, Nance, along with several others that have helped the hogs. Also Wilson helped Bielema at Wisc. Don't misconstrue my statements as being a blind Gus lover but I an not blind to successful coaching.
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Silver Hog

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #65 on: October 03, 2017, 01:27:26 pm »

When Gus was at Tulsa he did a pretty good job.
When Gus was at Arkansas State, he did a pretty good job too.
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Silver Hog

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #66 on: October 03, 2017, 01:53:24 pm »

Exactly.

Gus has a *very, very simple* offense that can work *really, really well* if you have the right pieces in place.
Do you want a team that wins 4 and then wins 10? Because that is Gus' offense. There is a reason he has a new JUCO/transfer QB every year. He can neither recruit nor develop the position. All he can do is work with either a) a generational athlete or b) someone else's finished product.


Isn't finding that Juco player recruiting? 
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wildhogman

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #67 on: October 03, 2017, 04:02:57 pm »

Some of you forget that Gus ran that same offense while he was OC here.  Worked pretty well if I recall.
Yes it did, but he also has Dmac and Felix running the wildcat at a time when it was brand new and not many in the college ranks of coaching had seen it or knew how to prepare for it. Add to that Dmac could actuall throw the ball pretty good and you have basically the same offense that Gus has with Marshal.  Doesn't change the fact that with the talent that offense looks unstoppable. With lesser talent, not so much. I mean Dmac made Nutts offense look like world beaters. The same offense that used 3 or 4 QB's in first game in 2000. We all know it was same offense cause Nutt always called his own plays. Its said so right here on hogville
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31to6

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #68 on: October 03, 2017, 04:49:56 pm »

Isn't finding that Juco player recruiting? 
Sure, but counting on a JUCO/Transfer guy to come in and be ready to run the offense at a high level *every year* is like the crack cocaine of recruiting. The more you do it, the more you have to do it...

This is a weakness. It doesn't make him a bad coach. When he gets a great athlete at QB, he has proven his offense can put up a lot of points.

But it does mean that just about every year Auburn will be completely in the dark about whether or not it will be a good year, because if the pattern holds he will keep bringing in a new QB almost every year, ESPN will keep anointing that QB (without any evidence) every year and sometimes it will work and sometimes it will blow up.
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Ben

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #69 on: October 03, 2017, 05:06:23 pm »

Some of you guys are really trying to discredit Gus by saying he needs star players for his offense and team to be successful....Well no darn, that goes for every team and coach. Isn't it funny as OC at Arkansas, they won 10 straight games, were ranked as high as #5, a muffed punt from a SEC Title, and were within striking distance of a national title appearance? With the same fire power the next year without Gus, they were only ranked twice, and lost 5 games. The LSU win however was an all-time great.

Point being is whether you hate him or not, Gus is still a decent coach with a decent Offense. Cam and Marshall are always brought up, but nothing is ever said about him going to the Sugar bowl just last season.
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rzrbk4life

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #70 on: October 03, 2017, 05:17:56 pm »

That 'high school' offense hung over fifty on us last year and there's a good chance they may do it again this year. Rhoads has his work cut out
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Deep Shoat

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #71 on: October 03, 2017, 05:19:19 pm »

It's high school...








I wish.
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grayhawg

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #72 on: October 03, 2017, 05:29:47 pm »

Some of you guys are really trying to discredit Gus by saying he needs star players for his offense and team to be successful....Well no darn, that goes for every team and coach. Isn't it funny as OC at Arkansas, they won 10 straight games, were ranked as high as #5, a muffed punt from a SEC Title, and were within striking distance of a national title appearance? With the same fire power the next year without Gus, they were only ranked twice, and lost 5 games. The LSU win however was an all-time great.

Point being is whether you hate him or not, Gus is still a decent coach with a decent Offense. Cam and Marshall are always brought up, but nothing is ever said about him going to the Sugar bowl just last season.
This time last year, and don't forget.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/9/18/12957178/gus-malzahn-auburn-coach-hot-seat


https://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/TeamRankings
https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
https://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

I guess we need to move to where the recruits are, notice Auburn in the top 10 every year and we never got out of the the twenties.
It's Jimmy and Joes that makes plays.
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Silver Hog

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2017, 06:32:38 pm »

2011 8-5
2013 12-2
2014 8-5
2015 7-6
2016 8-5
2017 4-1


We pray for an 8 win season.  He has them regularly.  Our ceiling is his basement.  If we could get to where we 'only' win 8 games a season, with a chance to win 10-11-12, I'd take it in a heartbeat.  Keep in mind he plays in the same conference we do, plays the same teams we do.


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ricepig

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2017, 06:51:29 pm »

2011 8-5
2013 12-2
2014 8-5
2015 7-6
2016 8-5
2017 4-1


We pray for an 8 win season.  He has them regularly.  Our ceiling is his basement.  If we could get to where we 'only' win 8 games a season, with a chance to win 10-11-12, I'd take it in a heartbeat.  Keep in mind he plays in the same conference we do, plays the same teams we do.




Kristi, if you think Auburn and Arkansas has access to the same talent level, then you need to have Armani pray over you.....
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LZH

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #75 on: October 03, 2017, 06:56:39 pm »

I would have taken Gus over BB in a heartbeat five years ago. Of course,  I may be cursing Gus now as often as I do our current head honcho. I still believe he thought he was gonna get a phone call the day BB was hired. But it was apparently noted then that Gus will NEVER be the HC at Arkansas.

What could have been?
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grayhawg

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2017, 06:59:44 pm »

2011 8-5
2013 12-2
2014 8-5
2015 7-6
2016 8-5
2017 4-1


We pray for an 8 win season.  He has them regularly.  Our ceiling is his basement.  If we could get to where we 'only' win 8 games a season, with a chance to win 10-11-12, I'd take it in a heartbeat.  Keep in mind he plays in the same conference we do, plays the same teams we do.



2013 he inherited a ready made team and played for the national title after 2 dumb luck plays one against Georgia and Bama.
two 8 and 5 and one 7 and 6 with top ten classes is the reason he was on the hot seat.
Yes he plays in the same conference we do against the same teams, but if he had the same players as us how would it be.
   I have been saying over and over since the Missouri game to fire CBB because IMO he's in over his head. If they do fire him I hope they never consider Gus because we would not be any better off with the players he could recruit to Arkansas, now that's my opinion and you are welcome to yours.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #77 on: October 03, 2017, 07:01:58 pm »

2011 8-5
2013 12-2
2014 8-5
2015 7-6
2016 8-5
2017 4-1


We pray for an 8 win season.  He has them regularly.  Our ceiling is his basement.  If we could get to where we 'only' win 8 games a season, with a chance to win 10-11-12, I'd take it in a heartbeat.  Keep in mind he plays in the same conference we do, plays the same teams we do.


With the recruiting classes that he has had at Auburn, your stats aren't exactly a ringing endorsement for his ability to get the most out of the talent available. If that is the best that he could do with their recruiting classes, how do you think he would have done with ours?
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Porkchop#1

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #78 on: October 03, 2017, 07:05:17 pm »

And you can ignore that his 3 best seasons at Aub he had Cam Newton and Nick Marshall.  What did he do there without either of those 2?

Gus is another example of what I find so funny about who is considered a good+ coach. They are great when they have great players, what are they when they do not? What has Gus done at Aub without having a QB perfectly suited to be used as a battering ram 20 times a game?
Joe Namath, Nick Marshall, Tom Brady.

Which name doesn't fit in?
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Hoggish1

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #79 on: October 03, 2017, 07:09:17 pm »

Sitting here watching Auburn and Miss St. and I have to say I really like Auburns offense. There is so much more deception in their offense. I'm still supporting Bielema for now but wish Enos would read Malzahn's book.

It's HS.
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AlmaHog2011

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #80 on: October 03, 2017, 07:18:37 pm »

The biggest difference in Arkansas and Auburn is not x's and o's, it's Jimmy and Joes

You ever think it might be the strength and conditioning or maybe the coaching?
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Ben

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #81 on: October 03, 2017, 07:33:26 pm »

This time last year, and don't forget.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/9/18/12957178/gus-malzahn-auburn-coach-hot-seat


https://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/TeamRankings
https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
https://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

I guess we need to move to where the recruits are, notice Auburn in the top 10 every year and we never got out of the the twenties.
It's Jimmy and Joes that makes plays.
Jimmys and Joes do make the plays, and he does bring in talent. But people are using that to say he isn't a good coach. We know what he did at Arkansas, Auburn as a OC, and Arkansas St. In his 2 years at Tulsa, they had 2 straight 10-win seasons for the 1st time in school history, 11 wins in 1 season for the first time ever, and was ranked for the first time in 17 years. Now, he should have better seasons since he is bringing in the talent every year. But last year they just went to the Sugar Bowl.
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Silver Hog

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2017, 08:00:21 pm »

With the recruiting classes that he has had at Auburn, your stats aren't exactly a ringing endorsement for his ability to get the most out of the talent available. If that is the best that he could do with their recruiting classes, how do you think he would have done with ours?
so basically, we will never be good because we 1) can't keep a good coach and 2) if we had a good coach we can't get the players. Remind me why we stay in the SEC then? We should be sunbelt contenders, at least it would be entertaining, with a chance to win.
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grayhawg

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #83 on: October 03, 2017, 08:01:51 pm »

so basically, we will never be good because we 1) can't keep a good coach and 2) if we had a good coach we can't get the players. Remind me why we stay in the SEC then? We should be sunbelt contenders, at least it would be entertaining, with a chance to win.

$ for one reason
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Silver Hog

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #84 on: October 03, 2017, 08:02:09 pm »

With the recruiting classes that he has had at Auburn, your stats aren't exactly a ringing endorsement for his ability to get the most out of the talent available. If that is the best that he could do with their recruiting classes, how do you think he would have done with ours?

Or another way to ask the question, what could have done with HIS recruits here, not the ones bert brought in, but the ones that came for Gus? That is a better question.   Probably the difference from our 7 win seasons to an 8 win season or better.   We can't even do that now in our 5th year.   
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #85 on: October 03, 2017, 08:06:09 pm »

Or another way to ask the question, what could have done with HIS recruits here, not the ones bert brought in, but the ones that came for Gus? That is a better question.   Probably the difference from our 7 win seasons to an 8 win season or better.   We can't even do that now in our 5th year.   

He wouldn't have landed those same recruits at Arkansas and for a variety of reasons. I'm pretty certain that you already realize this.
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #86 on: October 03, 2017, 08:17:17 pm »

If we're arguing about Gus, because we think BB is simply a better choice here, then I don't see it.  I don't see BB as being any better than Gus.  I'm confident Gus and his HS offense could at least match anything BB has accomplished here.  Essentially we're just poking holes at anything Gus while ignoring BB's holes. 

However, If we're agreeing that BB ain't the right guy here, but also arguing that Gus wouldn't be either, then yeah, I'm with you.
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grayhawg

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #87 on: October 03, 2017, 08:20:21 pm »

If we're arguing about Gus, because we think BB is simply a better choice here, then I don't see it.  I don't see BB as being any better than Gus.  I'm confident Gus and his HS offense could at least match anything BB has accomplished here.  Essentially we're just poking holes at anything Gus while ignoring BB's holes. 

However, If we're agreeing that BB ain't the right guy here, but also arguing that Gus wouldn't be either, then yeah, I'm with you.
That's what I said in reply #76
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #88 on: October 03, 2017, 08:26:09 pm »

That's what I said in reply #76

Then we both agree that I'm brilliant.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #89 on: October 03, 2017, 08:27:39 pm »

If we're arguing about Gus, because we think BB is simply a better choice here, then I don't see it.  I don't see BB as being any better than Gus.  I'm confident Gus and his HS offense could at least match anything BB has accomplished here.  Essentially we're just poking holes at anything Gus while ignoring BB's holes. 

However, If we're agreeing that BB ain't the right guy here, but also arguing that Gus wouldn't be either, then yeah, I'm with you.

In terms of win's, I'm not impressed with what Bielema has accomplished here so far. But to try to say that Malzahn could have done better at Arkansas (which is what some are trying to say) doesn't make a lick of sense. Malzahn has had far better talent at his disposal and done less with it at Auburn and there isn't any way in hades he would have landed an average of top 10 recruiting classes at Arkansas. So if he couldn't accomplish more at Auburn with those classes, I'm not convinced that he could have even done as well as Bielema at Arkansas with the typical Arkansas recruiting class. Done as well? Maybe, maybe not, we will never know but what we do know is that he actually has achieved less with far better classes at Auburn.
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grayhawg

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #90 on: October 03, 2017, 08:28:50 pm »

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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #91 on: October 03, 2017, 08:38:48 pm »

In terms of win's, I'm not impressed with what Bielema has accomplished here so far. But to try to say that Malzahn could have done better at Arkansas (which is what some are trying to say) doesn't make a lick of sense. Malzahn has had far better talent at his disposal and done less with it at Auburn and there isn't any way in hades he would have landed an average of top 10 recruiting classes at Arkansas. So if he couldn't accomplish more at Auburn with those classes, I'm not convinced that he could have even done as well as Bielema at Arkansas with the typical Arkansas recruiting class. Done as well? Maybe, maybe not, we will never know but what we do know is that he actually has achieved less with far better classes at Auburn.

Geez, dude, of course we'll never know.  You're not being convinced of something is no more of a legitimate opinion than someone being convinced of it.  Just like you'll never know what kind of class Gus would actually recruit here.  Common sense says he wouldn't recruit as well as at AU, but there's pretty good amount of common sense that says he's good enough to achieve a 10-23 SEC record at this point at UA.  To think he isn't capable of that also doesn't make a lick of sense. 

For clarity, and before you state the obvious, we are dealing in opinions.  Yes, yes, yes...we can't know for sure. 
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #92 on: October 03, 2017, 08:48:38 pm »

Geez, dude, of course we'll never know.  You're not being convinced of something is no more of a legitimate opinion that someone being convinced of it.  Just like you'll never know what kind of class Gus would actually recruit here.  Common sense says he wouldn't recruit as well as at AU, but there's pretty good amount of common sense that says he's good enough to achieve a 10-23 SEC record at this point at UA.

That's considered to be progress? If he was here and had done no better than Bielema all of the Gus-lover's would have turned into Gus-hater's by now, just as many have turned on Bielema. I just don't see the point other than many saying that anyone is better than Bielema. I'm not happy with what I've seen in terms of W's either, but just having change to say we had change doesn't make things any better. Again, if Gus couldn't do any better at Auburn with the classes he has had, it stands to reason that he wouldn't have accomplished more at Arkansas with lesser classes. Some are so anti-Bielema that they can't see the forest for the trees, just the same as those that are so pro-Bielema that they tend to have the same problem.

If the almighty Gus couldn't do any better, who could? Tom Herman? I think he is spoken for. Too many built in disadvantages at Arkansas. We aren't going to get any big name, highly valued coach to come here and tie his future to so many disadvantages. Just the same as it was laughable when someone suggested throwing a lot of money at Bob Stoops. I guarantee that he isn't coming. And I am convinced that Bielema made a miscalculation in coming here. He underestimated the level of challenge that is involved at Arkansas in the SEC West.

So all of this just becomes a circular argument between those that want Bielema gone and those who want Bielema to stay.
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #93 on: October 03, 2017, 08:58:15 pm »

That's considered to be progress? If he was here and had done no better than Bielema all of the Gus-lover's would have turned into Gus-hater's by now, just as many have turned on Bielema. I just don't see the point other than many saying that anyone is better than Bielema. I'm not happy with what I've seen in terms of W's either, but just having change to say we had change doesn't make things any better. Again, if Gus couldn't do any better at Auburn with the classes he has had, it stands to reason that he wouldn't have accomplished more at Arkansas with lesser classes. Some are so anti-Bielema that they can't see the forest for the trees, just the same as those that are so pro-Bielema have the same problem.

If the almighty Gus couldn't do any better, who could? Tom Herman? I think he is spoken for. Too many built in disadvantages at Arkansas. We aren't going to get any big name, highly valued coach to come here and tie his future to so many disadvantages. Just the same as it was laughable when someone suggested throwing a lot of money at Bob Stoops. I guarantee that he isn't coming. And I am convinced that Bielema made a miscalculation in coming here. He underestimated the level of challenge that is involved at Arkansas in the SEC West.

So all of this just becomes a circular argument between those that want Bielema gone and those who want Bielema to stay.

What are you talking about?  What argument do you claim I'm making?  I don't think Gus would be an improvement at all.  My original post essentially said so.  I would be extremely disappointed if he were hired.  I would have been 5 years ago too.

My point is many poke holes in GM's mediocre coaching skills.  Very rightly so.  but lets not pretend that BB is really any better.  There's nothing I've seen to suggests he is.  It's not at reach at all to suggest that Gus could match BB's "success" here.
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lakecityhog

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #94 on: October 03, 2017, 09:50:29 pm »

Ah, nothing like the old _______ lover comment to try to solidify your own opinion! Nothing fosters good discussion like being dismissive of the opinions of others.

The simple fact is that after the USC debacle HDN allowed Gus to run his offense and we reeled off 10 straight wins, HERE, at Arkansas, with less than a top 10 recruiting class. Like it or not the man can coach.

12–2      
 8–5   
 7–6         
 8–5   
 4-1
This is his record as HC at Auburn, his worst year is basically as good as our best year over the last 4 years. Please keep in mind that his permanent East game is Georgia, a pretty tough opponent.
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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #95 on: October 03, 2017, 09:51:56 pm »

12–2      
 8–5   
 7–6         
 8–5   
 4-1
This is his record as HC at Auburn, his worst year is basically as good as our best year over the last 4 years. Please keep in mind that his permanent East game is Georgia, a pretty tough opponent.

Our best year is 8-5.  His worst year is 7-6.  Not the same.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #96 on: October 03, 2017, 09:54:49 pm »

If he doesn't win 10 this year he's gone.
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Silver Hog

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #97 on: October 04, 2017, 01:39:23 pm »

Our best year is 8-5.  His worst year is 7-6.  Not the same.

check your facts, i said basically as good, didnt say they were the same. Fact check that we would kill for that record over the past six years. We are crap, Auburn is not.
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #98 on: October 04, 2017, 02:36:01 pm »

check your facts, i said basically as good, didnt say they were the same. Fact check that we would kill for that record over the past six years. We are crap, Auburn is not.

We here at HV prefer to argue the exceptions to the rule, not the rule.
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Re: Call it High School if you wish.
« Reply #99 on: October 04, 2017, 02:43:55 pm »

When Gus was at Arkansas State, he did a pretty good job too.
Malzahn has done a pretty good job everywhere he's been.  In fact, better than pretty good.  And now he is the toughest division in college football.  And he is competing.  Unlike other coaches we could mention.
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