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Author Topic: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal  (Read 2518 times)

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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #100 on: October 02, 2017, 03:14:39 pm »

For minute I thought we were talking about high school football.  Greenbrier high school hasn't kicked a field goal either.  They haven't even attempted one.  They don't have anyone than can kick field goals.  In game one, they tried two extra point kicks and failed miserably on both.  Since then, they have went for two after every TD.

I wonder if Houston would call Arkansas' kicking game "high school"?

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KennyForAD

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #101 on: October 02, 2017, 04:02:06 pm »

Quit making yourself out to be a martyr.

Just because people don't bitch and complain NON-STOP doesn't mean they worship the coaches.

A martyr?   I can't even begin to make sense out of that.  A martyr dies for the cause.  How on Earth does that apply?

All kidding aside, my position is simple:  1) BB is failing.  There are huge, glaring failures in several areas of coaching that anyone should be able to see;  2) He's good enough in all other areas that we would be wise to give him another season, after this one, to improve, and; 3)  We would be fools to let Long hire the next coach anyway.  He got lucky to land BB, and it could be, and probably will be, even worse.

The problem I have is that there are so many who refuse to see the obvious, that he IS failing.  How can anyone look at our special teams over his tenure and think its acceptable?  We are THE WORST, statistically power rushing team in football.  The worst...  We are on course to averaging 2 wins a year in the SEC over 5 years.  No matter how much we like him, that is unacceptable.  There is a huge number of fans who freak out when anyone points out the obvious failures, and don't anyone dare call him 'Burt.'  Make a silly play on his name ( which I'm sure he would chuckle at) and its like you've committed blasphemy.   Yes, there ARE haters who want him to fail because of the Petrino fiasco, and they are a pain in the butt.  But you guys who defend him religiously, at all costs, and to the point of absurdity, are a bigger pain.  No rational discussion allowed, so why even try? 
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1highhog

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #102 on: October 02, 2017, 04:07:50 pm »

Had he missed people would have booed CBB off the field.

I wished we'd seen a couple of FG tries this past Saturday but evidently CBB was resting up our kickers leg for the Game birds.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #103 on: October 02, 2017, 04:09:56 pm »

You just have to take a breath and have a good laugh when someone says kicking woohs are not on a coach.
No go ahead and bash a player when it suits YOUR purpose, but make up your dang mind what the rules are on this board. 

That was a general statement not aimed at anyone in particular but if it hits...
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factchecker

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #104 on: October 02, 2017, 04:14:36 pm »

You just have to take a breath and have a good laugh when someone says kicking woohs are not on a coach.
No go ahead and bash a player when it suits YOUR purpose, but make up your dang mind what the rules are on this board. 

That was a general statement not aimed at anyone in particular but if it hits...

The kicking problem and any problem with the team falls squarely on the coach.  It's his responsibility to find a kicker that can hit a chip shot field goal.  If, for whatever reason, he can't find one then it's his responsibility to work around that problem.

I would rather have a kicker who is automatic from 40 yards or less.  It would be nice to know if we make it to the red zone that we were going to get at least 3 every time.  However, if we can't then we better get good at converting on 4th down and scoring touchdowns instead.
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KennyForAD

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #105 on: October 02, 2017, 04:24:28 pm »

No, but pointing it out over and over with the only solution offered is just firing everyone is tiresome. For those who want people fired, surely you know who should be hired, and how they can do something no coach here has done in 50 years or so - get top level players here, in sufficient numbers, to have the depth and talent necessary to win the sec.

I don't believe I've ever said we should fire BB - except that one afternoon when I misread an article and mistakenly thought he had a policy of not recruiting players who were committed elsewhere.  When I saw the first game this season, I could not believe how bad we looked, and got called a fool when I pointed out what I saw.  Most seem to get it now, but I admit I find it frustrating that so many still can't see it, and I DO believe blind optimism and faith in whoever is the current coach IS a problem at Arkansas.  He NEEDS to be on a hot seat.  He NEEDS to feel the pressure and fix what is wrong.

Let me be very clear, once more.  BB is great at many things that are very important.  He does things the right way.  Graduates players.  Does not tolerate BS.  Is a great representative of our school, etc. etc.  I do NOT think he is a bad coach.  I think he is a GOOD coach, and I don't have the first clue why he is failing on the field.   I think highly enough of him that I would give him another shot next year even if we lose every game left this season.  And... I don't know why exactly, but I do believe he WILL turn it around and will succeed at Arkansas in years to come.  But that does not mean that I will be a blind fool, pretending that all is well, or tolerate blind fools who pretend all is well.  It is what it is.
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gchamblee

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #106 on: October 02, 2017, 04:27:05 pm »

The kicking problem and any problem with the team falls squarely on the coach.  It's his responsibility to find a kicker that can hit a chip shot field goal.  If, for whatever reason, he can't find one then it's his responsibility to work around that problem.

I would rather have a kicker who is automatic from 40 yards or less.  It would be nice to know if we make it to the red zone that we were going to get at least 3 every time.  However, if we can't then we better get good at converting on 4th down and scoring touchdowns instead.

I agree, But wouldn't you also agree that we had a kicker that we could feel pretty confident about, until he trotted out onto the field and missed those 2?
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factchecker

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #107 on: October 02, 2017, 04:29:14 pm »

I agree, But wouldn't you also agree that we had a kicker that we could feel pretty confident about, until he trotted out onto the field and missed those 2?

We should have.  From all the practice reports I read..... stats kept by outside sources said that Hedlund was pretty much spot on during practice.

I don't know what else you can do if the kid performs during practice and misses during games.  They simulated game type situations in the few open practices I was able to attend.
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gchamblee

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #108 on: October 02, 2017, 04:32:33 pm »

We should have.  From all the practice reports I read..... stats kept by outside sources said that Hedlund was pretty much spot on during practice.

I don't know what else you can do if the kid performs during practice and misses during games.  They simulated game type situations in the few open practices I was able to attend.

Keep in mind, I am agreeing with you that this is CBB's responsibility. It just feels like in this case, he had good reason to feel like we had our kicker cinched up.
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KennyForAD

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #109 on: October 02, 2017, 04:34:53 pm »


The kicking problem and any problem with the team falls squarely on the coach.
  It's his responsibility to find a kicker that can hit a chip shot field goal.  If, for whatever reason, he can't find one then it's his responsibility to work around that problem.

I would rather have a kicker who is automatic from 40 yards or less.  It would be nice to know if we make it to the red zone that we were going to get at least 3 every time.  However, if we can't then we better get good at converting on 4th down and scoring touchdowns instead.

I am no coach, but I've heard the great coaches say, and demonstrate, all my life, that there are three equal units of a football team, and special teams are just as important as offense or defense.  I think our coach is learning that the hard way.  Our offense was so good the last few years that we could easily have won 10 games twice, had we only had adequate special teams.  Fix special teams.  Fix the Oline problems, and we're a pretty good team.  The problem is... they aren't getting fixed, and seem to be going the wrong direction.
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KennyForAD

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #110 on: October 02, 2017, 04:42:44 pm »

Keep in mind, I am agreeing with you that this is CBB's responsibility. It just feels like in this case, he had good reason to feel like we had our kicker cinched up.

I would agree, except its a long term ongoing problem, and it isn't just the kicker.  Our special teams have been all around bad for BB's entire tenure.  Short kickoffs - never a threat to return a kick or punt - allowing blocked FG's, etc, etc.  If he typically had GOOD special teams, and then a kicker just choked on us, then I would totally agree.  When a kicker chokes, move on.  Get another one.  But our ST are bad, all around, always.  Its coaching - failing to recognize how important ST are.
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007 License To Squeal

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #111 on: October 02, 2017, 05:47:11 pm »

I agree totally.   I mean the sheer fact that we cannot and will not kick field goals should be a huge red flag as to Coach B's recruiting efforts.  No wonder we are the laughing stock of the SEC.   And whatever you do, don't laugh at LSU.  Troy would beat us as well.   Afterall, we are Alabama's homecoming game.   :puke:

We really are Bama's cupcake......
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Hoginsavga

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #112 on: October 02, 2017, 05:56:34 pm »

I have read all the posts in this thread and I must say some are quite entertaining and some are absolutely spot on correct. I find those entertaining are the ones that will go to any length to refute any criticism of the game plan.

This is my take on on the mystery of missed field goals and second half meltdowns for the entire tenure of CBB at AR, with the exception of two or three games. IMO the coaching philosophy instills little confidence in the team that they are capable of beating P5 teams playing head to head straight up football. This philosophy permeates throughout the team and to each player.

We have this mission of controlling the ball and winning time of possession instead of focusing on execution and running the plays. Time and time again I see us consume 7 or 8 minutes off the clock to get a score and the opponents get the ball and score in 2 or 3 minutes to even the score. That has to be demoralizing because it appears to come so easy for the opponents. The Texas A$M games the past four years are good examples.

I think the CBB teams as a whole play more afraid of losing the games than with the confidence they can win. This has to be brought on by the coaching staff.

For just once I would like to see our offense come out with guns a blazing without regard to the play clock and run quick plays. Just try to get the opponents on their heels for a change.
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factchecker

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #113 on: October 02, 2017, 07:59:18 pm »

I would agree, except its a long term ongoing problem, and it isn't just the kicker.  Our special teams have been all around bad for BB's entire tenure.  Short kickoffs - never a threat to return a kick or punt - allowing blocked FG's, etc, etc.  If he typically had GOOD special teams, and then a kicker just choked on us, then I would totally agree.  When a kicker chokes, move on.  Get another one.  But our ST are bad, all around, always.  Its coaching - failing to recognize how important ST are.

The one exception has to be punt team.  We've had a good run of punters from Sam Irwin Hill to Toby Baker and Blake Johnson has outplayed my criticisms.  Johnson seems to be the inverse of Hedlund.  Every time I saw him practice he would shank the ball and kick lame ducks.  In games he is nails.
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Hoggish1

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #114 on: October 02, 2017, 08:05:07 pm »

That is weird, right?

What are you trying to say?
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KennyForAD

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #115 on: October 02, 2017, 09:51:11 pm »

The one exception has to be punt team.  We've had a good run of punters from Sam Irwin Hill to Toby Baker and Blake Johnson has outplayed my criticisms.  Johnson seems to be the inverse of Hedlund.  Every time I saw him practice he would shank the ball and kick lame ducks.  In games he is nails.

True.  And good point.
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mckinneyhog5

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #116 on: October 02, 2017, 10:01:34 pm »

Seriously, WTH is BB supposed to do when it comes to kickers? I love how it's his fault dude is blowing easy kicks. Did you blame other coaches that had kickers blow field goals? We missed many FG's that lost games to Texas back in the day, didn't see anyone blaming the coaches. This board has just gotten ridiculous with the BB hate.
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KennyForAD

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #117 on: October 02, 2017, 10:11:25 pm »

Seriously, WTH is BB supposed to do when it comes to kickers? I love how it's his fault dude is blowing easy kicks. Did you blame other coaches that had kickers blow field goals? We missed many FG's that lost games to Texas back in the day, didn't see anyone blaming the coaches. This board has just gotten ridiculous with the BB hate.

I can answer that.  It wasn't routine to blow fg's back in the day.  We had great ST's, and lots of great kickers.  With BB, blowing FG's, and poor ST's (except punting), seems to have become routine.  Maybe its just bad luck, as you suggest.  Hope so.
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PORKULATOR

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #118 on: October 02, 2017, 11:01:30 pm »

We seem to kick fewer and fewer every year it's kind of like Ken Hatfields passing attack
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #119 on: October 02, 2017, 11:20:12 pm »

I can answer that.  It wasn't routine to blow fg's back in the day.  We had great ST's, and lots of great kickers.  With BB, blowing FG's, and poor ST's (except punting), seems to have become routine.  Maybe its just bad luck, as you suggest.  Hope so.

We got really good at punting in 2012, '13, and '14.
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KennyForAD

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #120 on: October 02, 2017, 11:24:00 pm »

 
We got really good at punting in 2012, '13, and '14.

+1
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KennyForAD

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #121 on: October 02, 2017, 11:24:18 pm »

We seem to kick fewer and fewer every year it's kind of like Ken Hatfields passing attack

-1
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mckinneyhog5

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #122 on: October 02, 2017, 11:25:32 pm »

I can answer that.  It wasn't routine to blow fg's back in the day.  We had great ST's, and lots of great kickers.  With BB, blowing FG's, and poor ST's (except punting), seems to have become routine.  Maybe its just bad luck, as you suggest.  Hope so.
AYSM? You remember Greg Horne?
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KennyForAD

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #123 on: October 02, 2017, 11:27:52 pm »

AYSM? You remember Greg Horne?

I was there for 'Hook'em' Horne's disaster.  15-14 loss to Texas with about 18 missed FG's by us in Fayetteville?  Point taken.
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BoynamedWooPigSooie

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #124 on: October 02, 2017, 11:30:09 pm »

Our kicking has been atrocious for years. It is very frustrating. It's hard to blame Bielema on the Hedlund miss, though. He was the best kicker in the country and just couldn't keep it together. It sucks for him and it sucks for the program, but I doubt you could blame Bielema for it.

Just wait for Hedlund to transfer and become an All-American kicker for SMU.
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mckinneyhog5

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #125 on: October 02, 2017, 11:31:28 pm »

I was there for 'Hook'em' Horne's disaster.  15-14 loss to Texas with about 18 missed FG's by us in Fayetteville?  Point taken.
I was there too...I remember the jokes. Horne was so depressed he tried to hang himself but couldn't kick the chair out beneath him.
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HoginMemphis

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #126 on: October 03, 2017, 09:12:06 am »

I have read all the posts in this thread and I must say some are quite entertaining and some are absolutely spot on correct. I find those entertaining are the ones that will go to any length to refute any criticism of the game plan.

This is my take on on the mystery of missed field goals and second half meltdowns for the entire tenure of CBB at AR, with the exception of two or three games. IMO the coaching philosophy instills little confidence in the team that they are capable of beating P5 teams playing head to head straight up football. This philosophy permeates throughout the team and to each player.

We have this mission of controlling the ball and winning time of possession instead of focusing on execution and running the plays. Time and time again I see us consume 7 or 8 minutes off the clock to get a score and the opponents get the ball and score in 2 or 3 minutes to even the score. That has to be demoralizing because it appears to come so easy for the opponents. The Texas A$M games the past four years are good examples.

I think the CBB teams as a whole play more afraid of losing the games than with the confidence they can win. This has to be brought on by the coaching staff.

For just once I would like to see our offense come out with guns a blazing without regard to the play clock and run quick plays. Just try to get the opponents on their heels for a change.
This is good analysis. Makes sense to me based on what I have witnessed over past 4 seasons and based on the outcomes. The A&M games are excellent examples of this. Ultimately, bad coaching and leadership by the staff.
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jcbville

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #127 on: October 03, 2017, 09:13:58 am »

I was there too...I remember the jokes. Horne was so depressed he tried to hang himself but couldn't kick the chair out beneath him.

Lol damn thats cold.
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EastexHawg

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #128 on: October 03, 2017, 09:18:48 am »

I was there for 'Hook'em' Horne's disaster.  15-14 loss to Texas with about 18 missed FG's by us in Fayetteville?  Point taken.

Yes, that was a disaster.  But...we also had many great kickers, including I would guess more All-Americans than any program.

Bill McClard
Steve Little
Ish Ordonez
Bruce Lahay
Kendall Trainor

I still think Trainor's 1988 season is the greatest I have ever seen by a college kicker.

Steve Cox is one of a handful of NFL kickers to make a 60-plus field goal, but for most of his Arkansas career he wasn't even the regular placekicker.  Todd Wright was a very good kicker and of course Hocker was tremendous as well.
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jkstock04

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #129 on: October 03, 2017, 09:29:34 am »

I was there too...I remember the jokes. Horne was so depressed he tried to hang himself but couldn't kick the chair out beneath him.
You were there? And remember? Aren't you the 30ish year old male nurse? Or do I have you mistaken with someone else?
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Redhogs

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #130 on: October 03, 2017, 10:02:34 am »

I would agree, except its a long term ongoing problem, and it isn't just the kicker.  Our special teams have been all around bad for BB's entire tenure.  Short kickoffs - never a threat to return a kick or punt - allowing blocked FG's, etc, etc.  If he typically had GOOD special teams, and then a kicker just choked on us, then I would totally agree.  When a kicker chokes, move on.  Get another one.  But our ST are bad, all around, always.  Its coaching - failing to recognize how important ST are.
Bingo...I don't know how many of our loses are directly or indirectly because of this, but I bet the number would be astounding. I do disagree with you on one thing though...Bert does need to go, not a good fit here.
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texas tush hog

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #131 on: October 03, 2017, 03:27:27 pm »

I agree, But wouldn't you also agree that we had a kicker that we could feel pretty confident about, until he trotted out onto the field and missed those 2?


Kinda like Kendall Trainor back in 1988. Missed two field goals and an extra point when Hatfield trotted him out to a chorus of boos, telling him this is your last chance. Trainor then booted 23 field goals  in a row the rest of the year. Wonder if Hedland might not do the same thing. We will never know with Bielema.
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texas tush hog

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #132 on: October 03, 2017, 03:42:40 pm »


Kinda like Kendall Trainor back in 1988. Missed two field goals and an extra point when Hatfield trotted him out to a chorus of boos, telling him this is your last chance. Trainor then booted 23 field goals  in a row the rest of the year. Wonder if Hedland might not do the same thing. We will never know with Bielema.


http://articles.latimes.com/1988-12-31/sports/sp-880_1_ole-miss
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 04:22:24 pm by texas tush hog »
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #133 on: October 03, 2017, 03:50:07 pm »

We should have.  From all the practice reports I read..... stats kept by outside sources said that Hedlund was pretty much spot on during practice.

I don't know what else you can do if the kid performs during practice and misses during games.  They simulated game type situations in the few open practices I was able to attend.
That is all true, except this is NOT the first year of this. That's the whole point.
For three years in a row, there is a competition in practice, Hedlund kicks well, and wins the job. Does well in practice, there is no reason to dispute those reports.
For three years in a row, Hedlund struggles in real games.

I saw weaknesses in game performance in 2015 to make me highly doubt Hedlund.

At some point you have to totally ignore what is happening in practice and weigh what is happening in real games.

As I said in previous post, to give someone a chance in Year 1 is fine. They struggle. I'm even ok if he won the job in Year 2 and got another chance in real games. He struggled again and was eventually replaced again.

But for Year 3 to go through this same song and dance is beyond comprehension. Another kicker should have been on campus, schollie or walk-on. Somebody. That's when it becomes an epic fail. I wasn't even happy Hedlund was the kicker in Year 2 but I halfway understood it. But not Year 3.
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texas tush hog

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #134 on: October 03, 2017, 04:13:58 pm »

 
That is all true, except this is NOT the first year of this. That's the whole point.
For three years in a row, there is a competition in practice, Hedlund kicks well, and wins the job. Does well in practice, there is no reason to dispute those reports.
For three years in a row, Hedlund struggles in real games.

I saw weaknesses in game performance in 2015 to make me highly doubt Hedlund.

At some point you have to totally ignore what is happening in practice and weigh what is happening in real games.

As I said in previous post, to give someone a chance in Year 1 is fine. They struggle. I'm even ok if he won the job in Year 2 and got another chance in real games. He struggled again and was eventually replaced again.

But for Year 3 to go through this same song and dance is beyond comprehension. Another kicker should have been on campus, schollie or walk-on. Somebody. That's when it becomes an epic fail. I wasn't even happy Hedlund was the kicker in Year 2 but I halfway understood it. But not Year 3.



http://articles.latimes.com/1988-12-31/sports/sp-880_1_ole-miss
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 04:28:02 pm by texas tush hog »
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swinemaster

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Re: Ark is only program in FBS to not have a Field Goal
« Reply #135 on: October 03, 2017, 04:23:44 pm »

Kendall Trainor was a man.  That is part of the equation.  I think he was even already married by his senior year.  He was far from a kicker that didn't participate with the rest of the team.  He had some Dawg in him and was almost like a captain.

We have boys, I'm sorry "Kids" trying to do it nowadays. ???
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