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Poll

Who's to blame for eroding in football?

The Board of Trustees
- 10 (5.4%)
Dr. Jeff Long
- 93 (50.3%)
Bret Bielema
- 46 (24.9%)
The fans
- 26 (14.1%)
The alumni
- 4 (2.2%)
Kurt Anderson/Samantha Pittman
- 6 (3.2%)

Total Members Voted: 184


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Author Topic: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?  (Read 3326 times)

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Captain Morgan

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Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« on: September 29, 2017, 06:03:49 pm »

 ???
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Dark Helmet Hog

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2017, 06:12:04 pm »

Bad poll. It started with White.
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The Boar War

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2017, 06:17:04 pm »

I'm interested in the reasoning behind whoever chooses "fans" or "alumni".
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KlubhouseKonnected

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 06:19:18 pm »

Make u of Arkansas great again!
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sickboy

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 06:22:58 pm »

You can't put blame on one person and say this is because of him or her. There are a million tiny little things that happen every second of every day that play into if our football team wins or loses. Some things are controllable, but many are not. Like injuries. Or a kid deciding he doesn't love football as much as he used to. Some are controllable, like showing up and working hard.

Either way -- you can't whittle down any of this to a single data point.
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Kevin

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2017, 06:29:27 pm »

it starts at the top. long is the problem. he sets the expectations, which I think he sets pretty low.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2017, 06:32:07 pm »

Obama ???  Bama!
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Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2017, 06:32:54 pm »

Houston Nutt.

He convinced an entire state that we are second rate.  He is the cancer that started this, and all the problems are the ripple effect of that.
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phadedhawg

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2017, 06:56:45 pm »

should have motorcycle as an option
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KlubhouseKonnected

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2017, 07:04:48 pm »

Marriage
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East Clintwood

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2017, 07:21:28 pm »

Jeffie and Bert.
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MartinGit

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2017, 07:44:33 pm »

IMHO it was the change from the SWC to the SEC - and, although I hate to say it and I know that he did many things that improved Arkansas athletics and carried us into national prominence in many respects, that falls on Frank Broyles - by changing we not only destroyed the SWC but it put us in a conference that we had very little chance to successfully compete in on a regular basis.  Arkansas has not been able to recruit the talent to compete in the SEC - occasionally, we'll have some in-state players come along that will make us competitive, but on a consistent basis, we can't provide or recruit the talent to do so.  When the SWC existed the competition was basically Ark vs. Texas - both programs have been basically destroyed on a national relevance basis by the destruction of the SWC
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2017, 07:54:21 pm »

IMHO it was the change from the SWC to the SEC - and, although I hate to say it and I know that he did many things that improved Arkansas athletics and carried us into national prominence in many respects, that falls on Frank Broyles - by changing we not only destroyed the SWC but it put us in a conference that we had very little chance to successfully compete in on a regular basis.  Arkansas has not been able to recruit the talent to compete in the SEC - occasionally, we'll have some in-state players come along that will make us competitive, but on a consistent basis, we can't provide or recruit the talent to do so.  When the SWC existed the competition was basically Ark vs. Texas - both programs have been basically destroyed on a national relevance basis by the destruction of the SWC
In the SEC we can hang out with the Big Dawgs and with the equal dispersion of all incoming money made via sports, we will always have CACHE' man. We are in heaven, we don't have to do a damm thing and we're still rich...can't beat that with a stick
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oldhog63

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 08:03:08 pm »

In the SEC we can hang out with the Big Dawgs and with the equal dispersion of all incoming money made via sports, we will always have CACHE' man. We are in heaven, we don't have to do a damm thing and we're still rich...can't beat that with a stick
I fear this is the attitude of our AD. All about the $$.
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PorkSoda

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2017, 08:08:14 pm »

I fear this is the attitude of our AD. All about the $$.
That is his job.

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HardCore

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2017, 08:12:04 pm »

Honestly.......all of the above.  Technically, Jeff Long b/c he is the head of the department, but looking at that list, we all have some accountability to the fall in some shape, way, form, or fashion
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MartinGit

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2017, 08:16:11 pm »

I fear this is the attitude of our AD. All about the $$.

There's no question that as long as the dollars are good the winning doesn't matter in the opinion of this administration - the question is "Who's to blame for the downfall in football?" - my conclusion is that Frank and the defection from the SWC to the SEC is who/what is at fault.  Consider the statistics:

in %
Bret Bielema   2013–present   .481   
Bobby Petrino   2008–2011   .667   
Houston Nutt   1998–2007   .620   
Danny Ford   1993–1997   .465   
Joe Kines†           1992              .350   
Jack Crowe   1990–1992   .375   
Ken Hatfield   1984–1989   .760
Lou Holtz           1977–1983   .735   
Frank Broyles   1958–1976   .708   

the numbers reflect the years in which the various coaches coached and the winning percentage of the football program.  I have eliminated Reggie Herring and John L Smith because they're not relevant.  Note that we moved to the SEC in 1992.  Before that our winning percentage was at the 70 - 76% range - It has never equalled that since - it came close with Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino but we have never seen the "glory days" of "Hogs, Horns and Nixon Coming" since we got into the SEC.  That's on Frank..........
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oldhog63

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2017, 08:24:00 pm »

That is his job.
There's no question that as long as the dollars are good the winning doesn't matter in the opinion of this administration - the question is "Who's to blame for the downfall in football?" - my conclusion is that Frank and the defection from the SWC to the SEC is who/what is at fault.  Consider the statistics:

in %
Bret Bielema   2013–present   .481   
Bobby Petrino   2008–2011   .667   
Houston Nutt   1998–2007   .620   
Danny Ford   1993–1997   .465   
Joe Kines†           1992              .350   
Jack Crowe   1990–1992   .375   
Ken Hatfield   1984–1989   .760
Lou Holtz           1977–1983   .735   
Frank Broyles   1958–1976   .708   

the numbers reflect the years in which the various coaches coached and the winning percentage of the football program.  I have eliminated Reggie Herring and John L Smith because they're not relevant.  Note that we moved to the SEC in 1992.  Before that our winning percentage was at the 70 - 76% range - It has never equalled that since - it came close with Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino but we have never seen the "glory days" of "Hogs, Horns and Nixon Coming" since we got into the SEC.  That's on Frank..........
I believe Frank had the best interest of the university. He was proactive in that he saw an opportunity to move the UofA out of the declining SWC. I do wish he didn't meddle in the technical details of the coaches. But, I really believe his decisions were based on what was best for the university.

On the other hand, the current admin couldn't care less beyond what keeps him employed. So, to your point of how does this affect the football program. An "Wins are not so important as other things" attitude filters down to the coach then to the players and fans. If the head guy doesn't care, why should I. Loser mentality. Plenty of dollars coming in whether we win or not. Why put out the extra effort/money if you don't have to. UNLESS, you are in it for more than just a job. Then you actually take pride and care about the program. Don't see that happening.
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MartinGit

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2017, 08:34:30 pm »

I believe Frank had the best interest of the university. He was proactive in that he saw an opportunity to move the UofA out of the declining SWC. I do wish he didn't meddle in the technical details of the coaches. But, I really believe his decisions were based on what was best for the university.

On the other hand, the current admin couldn't care less beyond what keeps him employed.

I'm not saying that Frank didn't have the best interests of the University in mind when he made this decision - I think he was a wonderful AD in terms of advancing the interests of the U of A in athletics - I don't think the U of A overall athletic program would be where it is now without what he did - However, I do think he made a mistake and that mistake was moving us to the SEC. And, in answer to the original question, I believe that is what has led to the decline of the success of the football program.  Just from a historical standpoint, it is interesting to remember that during Frank's waning years as head football coach there was a lot of criticism of his coaching style and ability much like it was during the last years of HDN.  Frank was a lot better AD than he was a head football coach during the last few years of his tenure as football coach.  He did wonders for the U of A and I don't begrudge him any of what he did other than moving us to the SEC.
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oldhog63

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2017, 08:47:05 pm »

I'm not saying that Frank didn't have the best interests of the University in mind when he made this decision - I think he was a wonderful AD in terms of advancing the interests of the U of A in athletics - I don't think the U of A overall athletic program would be where it is now without what he did - However, I do think he made a mistake and that mistake was moving us to the SEC. And, in answer to the original question, I believe that is what has led to the decline of the success of the football program.  Just from a historical standpoint, it is interesting to remember that during Frank's waning years as head football coach there was a lot of criticism of his coaching style and ability much like it was during the last years of HDN.  Frank was a lot better AD than he was a head football coach during the last few years of his tenure as football coach.  He did wonders for the U of A and I don't begrudge him any of what he did other than moving us to the SEC.
I agree that the ability for Arkansas to compete in the SEC was probably more difficult than Frank envisioned, but the current admin is not upping their level to compete.
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LZH

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2017, 09:01:03 pm »

Bobby Petrino's fault, dammit. How dare he go from five wins to eight wins to ten wins to eleven wins! He got our hopes up and had us believing we were actually able to expect to win ten games a year...that we were worthy of a legit top 15 program. Bastard.
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Michael_E_Davis

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2017, 09:03:57 pm »

Liberals
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solitons

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2017, 09:12:00 pm »

Houston Nutt.

He convinced an entire state that we are second rate.  He is the cancer that started this, and all the problems are the ripple effect of that.
HDN wrote national Champion on the board in his first season, and he almost made it if the QB fumble didn't happen in the tenn game, he fed the monster
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IronHog

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2017, 09:14:36 pm »

JFB
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2017, 09:27:48 pm »

I blame the guy that drinks Captain Morgan........
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PORKULATOR

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2017, 09:27:57 pm »

You all are, and it's because you touch yourselves.
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Captain Morgan

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2017, 11:45:20 pm »

In the SEC we can hang out with the Big Dawgs and with the equal dispersion of all incoming money made via sports, we will always have CACHE' man. We are in heaven, we don't have to do a damm thing and we're still rich...can't beat that with a stick


The SEC in 2017 isn't near as good as it was under our former coaches. Don't try and argue either. SEC coaching is bad currently... no Urban Meyer, no Steve Spurrier, no Mark Richt, no Les Miles, no Tommy Turbeville, no Bobby Petrino and no Hugh Freeze. Instead we got dufus coaches like Barry Odom, Butch Jones and Ed Oregeron.
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Iwastherein1969

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2017, 12:05:12 am »


The SEC in 2017 isn't near as good as it was under our former coaches. Don't try and argue either. SEC coaching is bad currently... no Urban Meyer, no Steve Spurrier, no Mark Richt, no Les Miles, no Tommy Turbeville, no Bobby Petrino and no Hugh Freeze. Instead we got dufus coaches like Barry Odom, Butch Jones and Ed Oregeron.
Thanks for making my ultimate point. If ever there were a time we should be doing well in the SEC West, with exclusions to the "Little General from Tuscaloosa", it most certainly should be this year, yet we are embarking on one of our worst seasons. I don't count John L. Smith as a coach in the year he inherited a team which was a 'dark horse' national contender with the team that Bobby Petrino recruited. Oh wait, my bad, that's right, Bobby Petrino can't recruit. Yet one of his recruits won the Heisman last year. What a quandary !
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bondhue

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2017, 12:07:48 am »


The SEC in 2017 isn't near as good as it was under our former coaches. Don't try and argue either. SEC coaching is bad currently... no Urban Meyer, no Steve Spurrier, no Mark Richt, no Les Miles, no Tommy Turbeville, no Bobby Petrino and no Hugh Freeze. Instead we got dufus coaches like Barry Odom, Butch Jones and Ed Oregeron.
We have met the enemy and are afraid to name them.
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moses_007

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2017, 12:11:03 am »

Petrino--he must have hired a voodo doctor to put a curse on the program after he was fired.
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Sivad

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2017, 03:04:21 am »

1. The hiring of Houston Nutt
2. The firing of Bobby Petrino
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Swestwill66

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2017, 03:23:20 am »

Pretty blondes
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Rzback

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Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2017, 06:21:08 am »

I recognize that the SWC was a softer conference than the SEC but it was more fun for me winning the conference and competing for the National Title ever once in a while. Just don't understand many of today's Razorback fans acceptance of mediocrity...
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2017, 06:58:09 am »

I recognize that the SWC was a softer conference than the SEC but it was more fun for me winning the conference and competing for the National Title ever once in a while. Just don't understand many of today's Razorback fans acceptance of mediocrity...

The move to the SEC by JFB had less to do with competition in football and more to do with the overall future financial stability of the entire Razorback Athletics Department for the future. I think that Broyles had great foresight, seeing what was going to happen with the SWC and what he felt was going to happen with the SEC. He was right. From a financial standpoint, it was a genius move.

Even JFB believed that Arkansas would be a #8 or #9 team in the SEC. That usually means being around a 8-5/7-6 team, occasionally 9-4.

I don't think that anyone wants to accept mediocrity. I also think that there are times that we have had chances to be better than we have produced. In 2014, 2015 and 2016 there is a strong argument that could be made that we should have won 9 in each of those seasons.

There is a lot of angst among Razorback fans right now. A lot of frustration. I think everyone would love to see us win more than we do. It's just a matter of how different people handle their frustration and what they are willing to give up, just to win.
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Tuskya

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2017, 07:03:33 am »

Frankly, I thought it was boring to always play teams from TX. Now, we travel to a variety of states and enjoy amazing college football traditions. There's no comparison.
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From Tusk Till Dawn

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2017, 07:18:45 am »

Its a shame about seasons 14,15, and 16.  Agree we should have won 9 each year, which would have been the the first time since late 80's.  I just hate that we dont really have a natural rivalry.  Other schools dont think of us that way in the sec.
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longtimeHogfan

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2017, 07:29:28 am »

I've got a lot of fond memories from our old SWC days.  The Arkansas/Texas rivalry was real and intense.  Hatred was re-defined and continues in my generation to this day.  Razorback Stadium held about 43K fans.  On wooden seats.  With no lights. 

I remember sitting on those wooden seats and watching Tulsa beat us one Saturday afternoon.  TULSA!  They were a rent-a-win stepchild on our schedule at the time.  Jerry Rhome was their QB.  It was my first 'Toledo' experience.   
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Snouty

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2017, 07:39:19 am »

Quinn Grovey - he persuaded the committee to hire Houston Nutt.
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Ironhawg

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2017, 07:43:16 am »

I saw an interview with Frank Broyles done a couple of years ago.  I had always assumed that if Frank had not gotten Arkansas into the SEC we would have ended up in the Big 12, but according to Frank we would have been frozen out of the Big 12 and would have ended up an orphan, likely ending up in a lesser conference.  Frank getting Arkansas into the SEC likely saved Arkansas athletics.  It's too bad we haven't been more competitive in football.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2017, 07:44:07 am »

I've got a lot of fond memories from our old SWC days.  The Arkansas/Texas rivalry was real and intense.  Hatred was re-defined and continues in my generation to this day.  Razorback Stadium held about 43K fans.  On wooden seats.  With no lights. 

I remember sitting on those wooden seats and watching Tulsa beat us one Saturday afternoon.  TULSA!  They were a rent-a-win stepchild on our schedule at the time.  Jerry Rhome was their QB.  It was my first 'Toledo' experience.   

Your memory may be failing you. Rhome only played for Tulsa in 1963 and 1964 (after being at SMU in 1961, transferring to Tulsa and sitting out 1962) and the Hogs beat Tulsa both years.
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longtimeHogfan

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2017, 07:46:32 am »

Your memory may be failing you. Rhome only played for Tulsa in 1963 and 1964 (after being at SMU in 1961, transferring to Tulsa and sitting out 1962) and the Hogs beat Tulsa both years.

Hmmm....ok...so who else could it have been?  I distinctly remember loosing to them and I thought I'd never forget their QB's name.   
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2017, 07:54:54 am »

Hmmm....ok...so who else could it have been?  I distinctly remember loosing to them and I thought I'd never forget their QB's name.   

Maybe 1967. Mike Stripling was the TU QB that year.
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aloha_kid

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2017, 07:57:34 am »

Houston Nutt.

He convinced an entire state that we are second rate.  He is the cancer that started this, and all the problems are the ripple effect of that.

I'd lay it at the feet of one Bobby Petrino. 
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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2017, 07:59:41 am »

Hmmm....ok...so who else could it have been?  I distinctly remember loosing to them and I thought I'd never forget their QB's name.   

I remember being very disappointed at a Tulsa game, early 70's.  We got beat 21-20, seems at the last minute.  I was in the east stands, brilliant afternoon.  Seemed unreal.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2017, 08:04:01 am »

Houston Nutt.

He convinced an entire state that we are second rate.  He is the cancer that started this, and all the problems are the ripple effect of that.

Lol.

Couldn’t have been Crowe followed by Ford.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2017, 08:04:20 am »

Hmmm....ok...so who else could it have been?  I distinctly remember loosing to them and I thought I'd never forget their QB's name.   

I remember being very disappointed at a Tulsa game, early 70's.  We got beat 21-20, seems at the last minute.  I was in the east stands, brilliant afternoon.  Seemed unreal.

Could have been 1971, that is when the Hogs lost 21-20 to Tulsa (4-7 that year). The QB for Tulsa that year was Todd Starks.
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longtimeHogfan

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2017, 08:06:14 am »

Could have been 1971, that is when the Hogs lost 21-20 to Tulsa (4-7 that year). The QB for Tulsa that year was Todd Starks.

That might have been it or the '67 game they won 14-12.  Mike Stripling was the back-up QB for them in that game.  I don't know why Jerry Rhome's name is so vivid in my memory.  I have no recollection of Stripling or Starks at all. 
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Conferences question for old timers that remember being in the SWC
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2017, 08:09:48 am »

But back to topic, if the move from the SWC was all about winning we would probably have rolled the dice, stuck around and tried to be included in the new Big 12. The Texas teams would have had the strongest lobby in that effort though and no one knows now whether we would have been included back then. Had we been, look where we would be now. Instability for the future, less money for all of the athletic programs and one of the teams looking for a new home with what seems to be the certainty of a Big 12 implosion by 2025.
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IronHog

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2017, 08:47:38 am »

The move to the SEC by JFB had less to do with competition in football and more to do with the overall future financial stability of the entire Razorback Athletics Department for the future. I think that Broyles had great foresight, seeing what was going to happen with the SWC and what he felt was going to happen with the SEC. He was right. From a financial standpoint, it was a genius move.

Even JFB believed that Arkansas would be a #8 or #9 team in the SEC. That usually means being around a 8-5/7-6 team, occasionally 9-4.

I don't think that anyone wants to accept mediocrity. I also think that there are times that we have had chances to be better than we have produced. In 2014, 2015 and 2016 there is a strong argument that could be made that we should have won 9 in each of those seasons.

There is a lot of angst among Razorback fans right now. A lot of frustration. I think everyone would love to see us win more than we do. It's just a matter of how different people handle their frustration and what they are willing to give up, just to win.


JFB moved UA to the SEC but at that point he could no longer hire coaches due to his meddling with Holtz and Hatfield.

He should have retired much earlier.
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GuvHog

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Re: Who's to blame for the downfall in football?
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2017, 09:11:06 am »


JFB moved UA to the SEC but at that point he could no longer hire coaches due to his meddling with Holtz and Hatfield.

He should have retired much earlier.

You do realize that Hatfield had a new contract on his desk which included a nice raise sitting on his desk in the BAC waiting for his signature when he jumped ship for Clemson don't you??
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