Hogville Info
• 9,288,696 Posts
• 382,500 Topics
• 21,391 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: Itís been a long 3 weeks.  (Read 3121 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hogninja

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,155
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #100 on: September 30, 2017, 02:14:16 am »

FOTH, I  Really appreciate your input with an insider perspective.  I know that everyone is trying Hard.  ONE thing I saw during the TAMU game was when CBB had a huddle with his O line.  He barked and they responded.  He coached IN GAME and I don't see enough of it.  Saben is engaged the entire time and coaching on the sidelines.  My observation is that this team NEEDS fire and brimstone and the only Coach that demonstrates that is Rhodes.  Players need to know when to step it up to push to the end. That is what I think is lacking. JMHO. GO HOGS!
Logged

Deep Shoat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,655
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #101 on: September 30, 2017, 03:47:55 am »

The biggest thing I took from this entire thread is that the players and assistants change, but the questions, issues, and glaring weaknesses remain the same when it comes to Bielema's version of the Hogs. The one constant is the man at the top.

I'll be there tomorrow hoping the kids can overcome their coach. Enjoy your weekend, fellas.
So, what you took from this thread is that you should continue to hold the same opinion you've had since Coach B was hired?
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

FANONTHEHILL

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,882
  • Go Hogs!
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #102 on: September 30, 2017, 07:48:04 am »

The purpose of the thread was initially was me simply saying I understand peopleís frustraion and the players and coaches need support.  But, like every other thread, the same folks need to make clear that the Hindenburg, Mt. Vesuvious, the Lincoln and Kennedy Assassinations, and the recent hurricanes are most likely the fault of Jeff Long, Bret Bielema, or someone else in the staff.  Everyone enjoy the game.  Iím heading out to tailgate. Woo Pig!
Logged

gchamblee

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,868
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #103 on: September 30, 2017, 07:48:56 am »

FOTH, I  Really appreciate your input with an insider perspective.  I know that everyone is trying Hard.  ONE thing I saw during the TAMU game was when CBB had a huddle with his O line.  He barked and they responded.  He coached IN GAME and I don't see enough of it.  Saben is engaged the entire time and coaching on the sidelines.  My observation is that this team NEEDS fire and brimstone and the only Coach that demonstrates that is Rhodes.  Players need to know when to step it up to push to the end. That is what I think is lacking. JMHO. GO HOGS!

You don't see enough of it because the camera doesn't show it. He coaches in games. The people that claim he looks lost and "aloof" have no idea except what they pick up from television. His sideline demeanor is similar to Mark Richts and I doubt many here think he is an idiot.
Logged

LZH

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 20,401
  • Tight but Loose
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #104 on: September 30, 2017, 08:02:29 am »

Iím sure a lot of us have played for different coaches with different styles.  Iíve had everything from the ďbe your buddyĒ to ďdrill sergeantĒ type.  I would call coach Bielema the ďfatherĒ type.  He will be supportive.  He will encourage.  But if you upset him, heís pissed off and makes sure you know it.  Thatís what I believe is the toughest thing about being a D1 coach.  Youíve got 120 kids, each from a different background.  Many times coaches are the only male role model some of these guys have ever had.  Now, theyíre away from home and and the coaches have to figure out if the kids personality is a needs a soft word or a kick in the pants or that they need to be screamed at to get the point across.   No two kids are the same.  One of the things that is made clear to all of the players is that the bar for expectations is set high.  No one will be given anything, except an opportunity.  Rhoads, Enos, Anderson, Hargreaves and Walker are more old school intense.  Smith, Lunney, and Scott are a mix of both.  They all have soft sides to them, but Iíve seen all of them on kids faces and I have no doubt that they get their point across. Hope that answers your question.

It does. There are types from screaming Nick Sabans to mild mannered Mack Browns. Since I've never seen a Bielema-era practice other than watching a scripted scrimmage from the hill above the NE corner of RRS, I was curious to know.
Logged

Ex-Trumpet

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 12,430
  • When life gives you lemons, get a boob job!
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #105 on: September 30, 2017, 09:08:50 am »

All Div. 1 coaches teach the fundamentals of football.  All of them know how their players need to execute to be successful. 

The trick is GETTING THEM TO DO IT.  And recruiting enough talented depth to create a culture of competition in which you have to win everyday in practice to keep your spot.

Our Coach isn't doing that.

Another possibility are the recruits themselves.  Fundamentals are not taught like they once were.  Most come from a program (here in Texas anyway) that plays a spread-type offense.  The emphasis is on out-scoring the opponent.  Defensive fundamentals are certainly not what they were even 10 years ago.

I blame the Big 12 for this (rightly or wrongly) as it seems to be the predominant football culture in Texas.
Logged

Al Boarland

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,616
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #106 on: September 30, 2017, 09:52:34 am »

If every team eliminated their mistakes they would win a lot of games. A&M had enough talent to win despite their mistakes. Talent is such a critical piece and you donít really know when your offense is going against your defense. Weíll see throughout the season just how talented the team is. Eliminating mistakes should allow the team to win the games they should win.
Logged

MemphisBossHog

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,181
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #107 on: September 30, 2017, 11:05:32 am »

This is a great post with a reasonable perspective.

From an outside perspective this goes along with my theory  that players are not afraid enough of the
consequences of mental breakdowns like you described.. We do play well in many aspects of a  particular game
but inconsistency most always causes us to lose, a play  here , a play there.  There doesn't seem to be
consequences to those players .......Its like we played a great game except for 7 plays and then the same guys go out the next
game.  I bet that doesn't happen at winning programs, you make mistakes that affect a game outcome and
you go to the bench. You are NEVER going to hear Saban say we played a great game except for 7 plays, that isn't
his culture.  If they have 7 breakdowns, the responsible players will have consequences. I hate hearing our coaches
say we played great except for a few plays.
...If in fact our coaches are doing a good job coaching then they are
way to tolerant of the players not taking that  good coaching to the field on a consistent basis....
thank you so much.  I have been wanting to say just this since I heard BB after the TCU loss.  I despise hearing that "except for this this and this, we had it going and we were where we wanted to be"  or something like that.  Well the fact is that the team DID make the mistakes and that is why they lost.  That is the difference between mediocre teams and good/great teams.  Mediocre teams "hang in there" with the good/great teams but when it comes down to it, the mediocre teams dont make the plays and they lose.

I have heard that "except for 5 or 6 breakdowns" the defense did what it needed to do against A$M.   We gave up 50 freakin points.  That is more than 5 or 6 plays.  And you are right, Saban would never say things like what BB says.  Saban can be up 40 pts in the 4th quarter and will get in an assistant coach's arse or a player if they dont do what they are supposed. And after the game, IF Saban loses (and he doesnt lose much) you dont hear him say that except for a couple of plays we were right there and had it going. 
Logged

BadHog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,265
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #108 on: October 01, 2017, 11:55:44 pm »

I agree, people who are fat or dress sloppy can never be good football coaches



When he has the same number of championships that Bill Belichick then no one will give a rats ass about how he dresses, what he says during press conferences, etc. He can cry like a baby after every championship game and we will all cheer. But right now, heís does not display the demeanor of a champion contender coach.
Logged

Qadi999

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 741
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #109 on: October 02, 2017, 04:25:48 am »

FOTH, First off I'm not an Oline coach or a football expert, I only know what I see and I can count. Week in and week out I see Oline's with 5 guys blocking and holding against 4 and 5 man fronts some have better talent than the other side some just know and do their job better than the other side. I don't know what the assignments are for each player on any given play, but I do know we are forced to keep in An RB and most of the time a TE to help block 4 man fronts on a constant basis. I or anyone else don't need to be an expert or know the assignment to tell that we have a problem with the online. Whether it is talent or the Scheme that is too hard for the guys to learn Its the coaches job to fix it, you cant just say the players are not doing what they were taught. Coach Barry Alvarez told a Story At the LRTC about coach Lou Holtz firing him, coach  Holtz said when you have a problem you have 3 ways to deal with it. Fix the Problem, live with the problem, or Eliminate the problem. This coaching staff has not fixed the problem, they cant add the right players well enough to eliminate the problem so it appears to the fan base as if they were left with dealing with the problem. At the end of the day, it does not matter what you or I or any other fan can see, ITs plain as day to any DC that plays against the Hogs That We have an oline issue and they can get to our QB on a regular basis.
Logged

DeltaBoy

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 66,470
  • I'm Un-Reconstructed. Sic semper tyrannis
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #110 on: October 02, 2017, 08:11:35 am »

It been a better weekend with the Hogs winning.
Logged

Jimbob111

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,617
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #111 on: October 02, 2017, 08:53:30 am »

Itís the ďcoach speakĒ that so many detest, but itís actully accurate.  There are just a handful of breakdowns that make all the difference.   Playing within the system and doing the little things are preventing them from reaching their potential.  Eliminate those and itís a different team.  When Coach Bielema says that they are so close, heís right.   Throw out FAMU.  TCU is a much better team than most thought.  They just beat a Top 10 Ok State team in Stillwater.  Texas A&M is a very talented team that had been underachieving.  They had them and made a handful of costly mistakes.  This team needs a solid win against NMSU and them the have to go in the road and beat South Carolina.  They are capable, they just need to eliminate the small mistakes that when piled on top costly mistakes which when added up have cost them ballgames.  As I said in the original post, theyíve got more talent than theyíve showed.

If a "handful" of breakdowns are the problem, how do you explain other teams that excel despite having the same "handful" of breakdowns each game.

This is what I just can't understand. The Hogs are winning at a historically low level and yet, everyone says it's just a few breakdowns here and there.

So what's the answer? No team plays a perfect game and all teams have breakdowns yet the Hogs are losing at a historical level. So what's the answer?

I remember breakdowns with every coaching staff going back to Danny Ford and yet, I don't remember ever seeing the Hogs play so terribly week-to-week. What what's the answer?
Logged

jgphillips3

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,825
  • Life is too short for bad beer.
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #112 on: October 02, 2017, 09:24:18 am »

Bielema has 8 games to show if he can, or cannot, correct the issues with HIS team.  These are his recruits.  This is his fifth year, third with the same OC.  We were willing to accept that he could have one year with a makeshift offensive line.  It happens.  When the line is no better after a Spring and a Fall and we are shuffling players in and out trying to find a combination that works four games into the season, then I blame the coaches for the ďkidís mistakesĒ.  If any of Bielemaís teams had put together even one solid year, this pressure in the fan base would not be building.  If it looked like there were players emerging who would fix the problem next year, the pressure would be lessened.  Right now, we are seeing BAD teams and good teams pressure, sack and hit our QB at an alarming rate for the second straight year.  Thank you FOTH for what you bring to the board.  Iím sorry idiots attack you.  Reasonable people can disagree as to what the array of evidence means without being ugly.
Logged

razorbackfaninar

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 350
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #113 on: October 02, 2017, 09:37:35 am »

Bielema has 8 games to show if he can, or cannot, correct the issues with HIS team.  These are his recruits.  This is his fifth year, third with the same OC.  We were willing to accept that he could have one year with a makeshift offensive line.  It happens.  When the line is no better after a Spring and a Fall and we are shuffling players in and out trying to find a combination that works four games into the season, then I blame the coaches for the ďkidís mistakesĒ.  If any of Bielemaís teams had put together even one solid year, this pressure in the fan base would not be building.  If it looked like there were players emerging who would fix the problem next year, the pressure would be lessened.  Right now, we are seeing BAD teams and good teams pressure, sack and hit our QB at an alarming rate for the second straight year.  Thank you FOTH for what you bring to the board.  Iím sorry idiots attack you.  Reasonable people can disagree as to what the array of evidence means without being ugly.

I agree with the points you are making, you are not wrong regarding the offensive issues, but at the same time the offense has not been the issue reason for our struggles.  The offense is once again, despite all of the issues, doing more than enough to give us a fighting chance to win the game.  The defense has been and continues to be the downfall of this team.  I don't know what the answers are, but despite how badly the o-line appears to be playing and all the other myriad of issues plaguing this offense, they are doing what they need to be doing to put more wins on the board. Unless and until we correct the issues on defense, then complaining about the offense is mute.   
Logged

Reservoir Hogs

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,569
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #114 on: October 02, 2017, 10:40:33 am »

If a "handful" of breakdowns are the problem, how do you explain other teams that excel despite having the same "handful" of breakdowns each game.

This is what I just can't understand. The Hogs are winning at a historically low level and yet, everyone says it's just a few breakdowns here and there.

So what's the answer? No team plays a perfect game and all teams have breakdowns yet the Hogs are losing at a historical level. So what's the answer?

I remember breakdowns with every coaching staff going back to Danny Ford and yet, I don't remember ever seeing the Hogs play so terribly week-to-week. What what's the answer?

historically low level?   Since joining the SEC our average record is 6.7 wins and 5.3 losses... Coach B's average is 6.25 and 6.5, which is also skewed but a horrible 3-9 first season which everyone knew was going to blow.   Hardly historically low, pretty much average.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/arkansas/#arkansas::none
Logged

jgphillips3

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,825
  • Life is too short for bad beer.
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #115 on: October 02, 2017, 09:49:56 pm »

I agree with the points you are making, you are not wrong regarding the offensive issues, but at the same time the offense has not been the issue reason for our struggles.  The offense is once again, despite all of the issues, doing more than enough to give us a fighting chance to win the game.  The defense has been and continues to be the downfall of this team.  I don't know what the answers are, but despite how badly the o-line appears to be playing and all the other myriad of issues plaguing this offense, they are doing what they need to be doing to put more wins on the board. Unless and until we correct the issues on defense, then complaining about the offense is mute.   

The offense is still producing points, TCU aside, but the absolutely bad line play has taken away our ability to do those long grinding drives that rest our D for two straight years and prevents us from playing Bielema ball.  Also, we are implementing a brand new defensive scheme.  Good teams are going to cause assignment busts while the D learns the new system.  I would suspect, based on averages of system implementation, the D will begin to look okay around the 7th or 8th game.
Logged

luke hawg

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,292
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #116 on: October 02, 2017, 11:05:10 pm »

FOTH thanks for the post. A lot of the problems in my opinion is simply finding guys that perform with the lights on. We lost every receiver, league leading RB, drafted TE, and starting left tackle on offense. We lost 3 starting defensive linemen, leader at linebacker, and best cornerback on defense. Despite the losses, this team is more talented just very green. They will mature and get comfortable playing in front of 70000 plus.
Logged

ShadowHawg

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2,751
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #117 on: October 03, 2017, 12:02:37 am »

The coaching is awful is what I see.

I know the coaches have elite level knowledge. I am sure they know proper techniques and strategy.

The problem is they settle for less than perfection in practice. That is where inconsistency comes from, not "forgetful" players.

Games are won and lost Monday through Thursday.

I know some of you will attack me and scream for proof. Saturday results are your proof. Inconsistent play like multiple guys getting out of kick coverage lanes is proof. How many times a game are these expected to maintain discipline on kick coverage? 6 or 7 times? Shouldn't be too hard but we have a problem with it every season.

Lining up correctly on defense, knowing who to block on offense, holding the ball too long by the qb, 2 missed chip shot field goals, are all evidence of tolerating it in practice. The big plays we continue to give up defense are discipline issues not jimmy and joe issues.

Petrino had Perfect Thursday practices. Perfection is impossible but the pursuit of it and not settling in that pursuit is the difference between consistent play and Jekyll and Hyde performances. John Wooden said, "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

It's our coaching.

Logged

What's Shakin' Macon

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,623
  • My English Mastiff and #1 Hog fan, Maizy
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #118 on: October 03, 2017, 01:25:48 am »

I, like many, appreciate you sharing your perspective and thoughts.

From Saturday's depth chart, we would return 17 starters next year, with Ragnow being the only loss of much significance. As fans it is easy to ignore these things and just expect good play on the field and wins. However, unless you're Bama or in the past LSU, you can't just go out and win games in the Sec with only 5 starting positions held by seniors. So I agree that lack of experience is likely causing some of the mental errors. However, it is still BB's fault for having us in this position in year freakin' 5. I like the young talent we have out there now, but BB's evals were off in past classes and this has ultimately caused the struggles, IMO.

Long story short: If we want to eliminate missed gap assignments, among others, we have to recruit well enough to have experienced players on the field.
Logged

Deep Shoat

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,655
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Itís been a long 3 weeks.
« Reply #119 on: October 03, 2017, 04:33:06 am »

The coaching is awful is what I see.

I know the coaches have elite level knowledge. I am sure they know proper techniques and strategy.

The problem is they settle for less than perfection in practice. That is where inconsistency comes from, not "forgetful" players.

Games are won and lost Monday through Thursday.

I know some of you will attack me and scream for proof. Saturday results are your proof. Inconsistent play like multiple guys getting out of kick coverage lanes is proof. How many times a game are these expected to maintain discipline on kick coverage? 6 or 7 times? Shouldn't be too hard but we have a problem with it every season.

Lining up correctly on defense, knowing who to block on offense, holding the ball too long by the qb, 2 missed chip shot field goals, are all evidence of tolerating it in practice. The big plays we continue to give up defense are discipline issues not jimmy and joe issues.

Petrino had Perfect Thursday practices. Perfection is impossible but the pursuit of it and not settling in that pursuit is the difference between consistent play and Jekyll and Hyde performances. John Wooden said, "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

It's our coaching.
The guy who actually SEES practice says you are wrong.  I'll go with him.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas