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Author Topic: When will Hogville learn  (Read 2046 times)

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Piggfoot

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When will Hogville learn
« on: September 29, 2017, 09:53:55 am »

It is not the coach but the players. If you got'em you can be good if not you're gonna be mediocre. Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino were/are horrible people and both benefited from the best players Arkansas has produced in the last 20 years. Just because we had a better record when they were here, it does not mean those records were 100% attributed to them. They won some great games but they lost some from lack of coaching as well.
Remember Reggie Fish? Remember failure to scoop and score?  Those were lost from a lack of coaching.
I know some of you haters are going to say but they brought those players here and I say BS. I will give you that some were not going to play for Nutt and came to Arkansas because of Petrino's offense. But that offense would not have been squat without the players. You say what about Petrino's Heisman player? Well I say just look at Louisville and the BB program. That stuff can't be isolated only to the BB program.
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tusked

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2017, 10:01:27 am »


Can't disagree more.  In college the coaching is more important.  Sure you need players but the coaches make the program in the college game.

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Boss Hog in the Arkansas

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2017, 10:03:58 am »

It is not the coach but the players. If you got'em you can be good if not you're gonna be mediocre. Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino were/are horrible people and both benefited from the best players Arkansas has produced in the last 20 years. Just because we had a better record when they were here, it does not mean those records were 100% attributed to them. They won some great games but they lost some from lack of coaching as well.
Remember Reggie Fish? Remember failure to scoop and score?  Those were lost from a lack of coaching.
Its actually both. Good players make average players look great and vice versa. If we're completely honest, Nutts players made him look far better than he was. He vastly under achieved during his time here. Imagine what petrino could've achieved with a qb like matt jones or a backfield with McFadden/jones/hillis.
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hogfan14

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 10:04:02 am »

Can't disagree more.  In college the coaching is more important.  Sure you need players but the coaches make the program in the college game.

Disagree. Robb Smith looked great when he had several NFL players. No matter how many times we change DCs with our current players, they still aren't going to be that good.
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WOOPIGMAN

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 10:04:10 am »

The coaches attract the players
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Hoggie17

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2017, 10:04:29 am »

It is not the coach but the players. If you got'em you can be good if not you're gonna be mediocre. Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino were/are horrible people and both benefited from the best players Arkansas has produced in the last 20 years. Just because we had a better record when they were here, it does not mean those records were 100% attributed to them. They won some great games but they lost some from lack of coaching as well.
Remember Reggie Fish? Remember failure to scoop and score?  Those were lost from a lack of coaching.
I know some of you haters are going to say but they brought those players here and I say BS. I will give you that some were not going to play for Nutt and came to Arkansas because of Petrino's offense. But that offense would not have been squat without the players. You say what about Petrino's Heisman player? Well I say just look at Louisville and the BB program. That stuff can't be isolated only to the BB program.
BP won without the best players and you know it.
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WOOPIGMAN

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2017, 10:05:07 am »

We're either getting Bobby or Mike Leach!
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Hogwild

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2017, 10:06:43 am »

You are what your record says you are.
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WOOPIGMAN

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2017, 10:07:53 am »

Best thing I've read on Hogville, you are what your record says you are!
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WOOPIGMAN

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2017, 10:10:21 am »

Les Miles - 142-55
Bobby Petrino - 112-44
Mike Leach- 117-77 63%
Brett Bielema- 94-52 64%
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porkrindjimmy

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2017, 10:12:42 am »

Les Miles - 142-55
Bobby Petrino - 112-44
Mike Leach- 117-77 63%
Brett Bielema- 94-52 64%

Now...give me Nick's.

PRJ
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Redhogs

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2017, 10:13:25 am »

It is not the coach but the players. If you got'em you can be good if not you're gonna be mediocre. Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino were/are horrible people and both benefited from the best players Arkansas has produced in the last 20 years. Just because we had a better record when they were here, it does not mean those records were 100% attributed to them. They won some great games but they lost some from lack of coaching as well.
Remember Reggie Fish? Remember failure to scoop and score?  Those were lost from a lack of coaching.
I know some of you haters are going to say but they brought those players here and I say BS. I will give you that some were not going to play for Nutt and came to Arkansas because of Petrino's offense. But that offense would not have been squat without the players. You say what about Petrino's Heisman player? Well I say just look at Louisville and the BB program. That stuff can't be isolated only to the BB program.
Pitiful.
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Boss Hog in the Arkansas

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2017, 10:13:31 am »

BP won without the best players and you know it.
Are you serious? Petrino had arguably the best class of instate recruits this century. Almost all of them spent time in the NFL
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1highhog

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2017, 10:17:21 am »

It is not the coach but the players. If you got'em you can be good if not you're gonna be mediocre. Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino were/are horrible people and both benefited from the best players Arkansas has produced in the last 20 years. Just because we had a better record when they were here, it does not mean those records were 100% attributed to them. They won some great games but they lost some from lack of coaching as well.
Remember Reggie Fish? Remember failure to scoop and score?  Those were lost from a lack of coaching.
I know some of you haters are going to say but they brought those players here and I say BS. I will give you that some were not going to play for Nutt and came to Arkansas because of Petrino's offense. But that offense would not have been squat without the players. You say what about Petrino's Heisman player? Well I say just look at Louisville and the BB program. That stuff can't be isolated only to the BB program.

What have you been inhaling?  Reggie Fish and his failures against Florida were things a player learns earlier than high school football, and the scoop and score the same thing.  How do you blame that on the Coaches when the players have been doing that since they first learned football?  These two examples you used were pitiful examples. 
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Redhogs

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2017, 10:18:33 am »

Are you serious? Petrino had arguably the best class of instate recruits this century. Almost all of them spent time in the NFL
Now this is funny...considering half the posters on Hogville have spent the last 5 years telling us how CBP was a terrible recruiter and Bert was a much better recruiter and doing it the right way. Losers are twisting themselves into pretzels now...comical.
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WOOPIGMAN

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2017, 10:18:54 am »

We're not going to hire Nick Saban
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WOOPIGMAN

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2017, 10:19:33 am »

Steve Sarkisian, is the only other guy I would personally take a chance on
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ricepig

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2017, 10:20:18 am »

We're not going to hire Nick Saban

Nor Leach or Miles.
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WOOPIGMAN

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2017, 10:21:20 am »

So Bobby or Sarkisian?
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ricepig

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2017, 10:22:58 am »

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hogfan14

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2017, 10:23:07 am »

Steve Sarkisian, is the only other guy I would personally take a chance on

Another guy that was fired?
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WOOPIGMAN

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2017, 10:23:52 am »

I want to hear who you guys think will be Arkansas's next coach, it's going to happen. Who would you pick?
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ricepig

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2017, 10:25:38 am »

I want to hear who you guys think will be Arkansas's next coach, it's going to happen. Who would you pick?

Saban, pay him $2.5m, make him earn his raises here.
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WOOPIGMAN

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2017, 10:31:09 am »

Lol, you are an idiot.
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je100

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2017, 10:51:05 am »

Arkansas will almost always be a team that finishes in the 6-10 range in the SEC.  It's a talent-base issue, and 25 years of mostly mediocrity is my evidence.  It's just who we are. 

There will be outliers that tease us with the possibility of breaking out of that 6-10 band, but those good years (finishing in the top two or three) are only outliers.  One can usually attribute it to senior leadership or an unusually gifted QB, either can be a decent short-term replacement for team talent.  Fortunately, finishing in the bottom two or three is also an outlier.

We will eventually revert to our mean, after good times and bad.  We will hire and fire without understanding this principle, believing that some new coach can get us there.  No coach can attain a sustaining greatness at Arkansas, anymore than a coach at Florida State can keep them from eventually being who Florida State is.  It's a talent base thing, and unfortunately, ours is fairly small compared to the SEC giants.

Of course there are outliers to this principle, even.  TCU comes to mind as a team that has broken out of their band.  Nebraska has fallen the other way, likely to set a new, lower mean over the coming years.

But generally speaking, programs don't change much.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2017, 10:53:11 am »

Can't disagree more.  In college the coaching is more important.  Sure you need players but the coaches make the program in the college game.



Dude even coaches will say "it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's"........................
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mckinneyhog5

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2017, 10:58:30 am »

I want to hear who you guys think will be Arkansas's next coach, it's going to happen. Who would you pick?
I wanted Patterson before we hired BB and still want him. I know TCU been hot lately but surely we could offer him more. Just find a way...
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Wildhog

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2017, 10:59:29 am »

I wanted Patterson before we hired BB and still want him. I know TCU been hot lately but surely we could offer him more. Just find a way...

AD's have been trying for years to get Patterson, and he just doesn't seem interested in leaving.
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MrKlem10

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2017, 11:04:02 am »

Coaches attract and develop talent to some degree... But you either got it or you don't....#Jimmys&Joes
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HogHomer

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2017, 11:04:07 am »

Now this is funny...considering half the posters on Hogville have spent the last 5 years telling us how CBP was a terrible recruiter and Bert was a much better recruiter and doing it the right way. Losers are twisting themselves into pretzels now...comical.
Uhh I don't think being a good recruiter has anything to do with your state that normal produces very little when it comes to SEC or even NFL talent all of a sudden has a boom over a two year period. Now yes Petrino had to get them on campus and he did but he greatly benefitted from a boom of instate prospects over a couple of recruiting classes.
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MrKlem10

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2017, 11:04:46 am »

Besides...lack of talent does not explain why we have not been able to make a halftime adjustment in 5 years
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mckinneyhog5

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2017, 11:07:56 am »

AD's have been trying for years to get Patterson, and he just doesn't seem interested in leaving.
I always thought he was waiting for the Texas job but they have had two hires since. There has got to be something he wants, just can't figure out what it is..
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hogsanity

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2017, 11:18:31 am »

To be a great coach you need great players. Different sport but I always thought i was funny how Jim Leyland was during his careers as a MLB manager. HE was great when he had Bonds, Bonnila, Van Slyke Draybek and a couple other arms in Pittsburgh. As soon as they were all allowed to leave, he couldn't win there. So he goes to FLA and they buy a team of really good free agents for a one year run, amazingly Leyland is great again. All those guys leave, he can't win a game. Goes to Det, they put together a really good team of veterans and some of the best young arms and a triple crown winner in Miggy. Preston Leyland can win again. Then those guys leave or breakdown, and he can't win again. See the pattern? A good manager was great when he had great players to manage.
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mckinneyhog5

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2017, 11:21:42 am »

To be a great coach you need great players. Different sport but I always thought i was funny how Jim Leyland was during his careers as a MLB manager. HE was great when he had Bonds, Bonnila, Van Slyke Draybek and a couple other arms in Pittsburgh. As soon as they were all allowed to leave, he couldn't win there. So he goes to FLA and they buy a team of really good free agents for a one year run, amazingly Leyland is great again. All those guys leave, he can't win a game. Goes to Det, they put together a really good team of veterans and some of the best young arms and a triple crown winner in Miggy. Preston Leyland can win again. Then those guys leave or breakdown, and he can't win again. See the pattern? A good manager was great when he had great players to manage.
Great players need managing too.
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MJ2

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2017, 11:24:56 am »

It is not the coach but the players. If you got'em you can be good if not you're gonna be mediocre. Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino were/are horrible people and both benefited from the best players Arkansas has produced in the last 20 years. Just because we had a better record when they were here, it does not mean those records were 100% attributed to them. They won some great games but they lost some from lack of coaching as well.
Remember Reggie Fish? Remember failure to scoop and score?  Those were lost from a lack of coaching.
I know some of you haters are going to say but they brought those players here and I say BS. I will give you that some were not going to play for Nutt and came to Arkansas because of Petrino's offense. But that offense would not have been squat without the players. You say what about Petrino's Heisman player? Well I say just look at Louisville and the BB program. That stuff can't be isolated only to the BB program.

Coaching matters - look at the John L. Smith year - good roster - no coaching.

Look at the years after Danny Ford - Nutt took Fords players and won.
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#1Fan

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2017, 11:26:16 am »

Bryant can take his'n and beat your'n, and then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n.  ~ Bum Phillips On Bear Bryant
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devildoghawg

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2017, 11:28:24 am »

I don't agree, at all.  Boise State is a prime example of that.
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hoglady

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2017, 11:30:20 am »

You are what your record says you are.

That's really all that needs to be said.
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oldhog63

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2017, 11:30:46 am »

At the college level, with players staying limited number of years, it is about good coaching and a stable, well defined system, which we have neither.
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HogHomer

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2017, 11:31:16 am »

I don't agree, at all.  Boise State is a prime example of that.
During Boise's great run with Peterson they recruited a lot of players out of California and a lot of Jucos. They were actually pretty talented.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2017, 11:34:37 am »

Arkansas will almost always be a team that finishes in the 6-10 range in the SEC.  It's a talent-base issue, and 25 years of mostly mediocrity is my evidence.  It's just who we are. 

There will be outliers that tease us with the possibility of breaking out of that 6-10 band, but those good years (finishing in the top two or three) are only outliers.  One can usually attribute it to senior leadership or an unusually gifted QB, either can be a decent short-term replacement for team talent.  Fortunately, finishing in the bottom two or three is also an outlier.

We will eventually revert to our mean, after good times and bad.  We will hire and fire without understanding this principle, believing that some new coach can get us there.  No coach can attain a sustaining greatness at Arkansas, anymore than a coach at Florida State can keep them from eventually being who Florida State is.  It's a talent base thing, and unfortunately, ours is fairly small compared to the SEC giants.

Of course there are outliers to this principle, even.  TCU comes to mind as a team that has broken out of their band.  Nebraska has fallen the other way, likely to set a new, lower mean over the coming years.

But generally speaking, programs don't change much.

We got to hit Texas and Fla harder cause we just don't turn out enough D-1 talent in state.
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oldhog63

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2017, 11:38:35 am »

We got to hit Texas and Fla harder cause we just don't turn out enough D-1 talent in state.
I think Texas and Louisiana. Florida is too far way and I don't think the returns justify the effort. As someone in an earlier thread said, we need to recruit DFW much more.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 02:44:44 pm by oldhog63 »
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ShadowHawg

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2017, 11:40:22 am »

It really isn't about who has the best players. It's about who plays the best game.

Don't believe it, explain upsets then.
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HogHomer

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2017, 11:50:00 am »

It really isn't about who has the best players. It's about who plays the best game.

Don't believe it, explain upsets then.
Upsets are called upset because they are unexpected and don't happen as often as the more talented team winning does.
So yes coaching can help you win a game here or there but talent is what builds and sustains a program.
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IronHog

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2017, 11:58:02 am »

It is not the coach but the players. If you got'em you can be good if not you're gonna be mediocre. Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino were/are horrible people and both benefited from the best players Arkansas has produced in the last 20 years. Just because we had a better record when they were here, it does not mean those records were 100% attributed to them. They won some great games but they lost some from lack of coaching as well.
Remember Reggie Fish? Remember failure to scoop and score?  Those were lost from a lack of coaching.
I know some of you haters are going to say but they brought those players here and I say BS. I will give you that some were not going to play for Nutt and came to Arkansas because of Petrino's offense. But that offense would not have been squat without the players. You say what about Petrino's Heisman player? Well I say just look at Louisville and the BB program. That stuff can't be isolated only to the BB program.


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ricepig

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2017, 11:59:21 am »

Lol, you are an idiot.

I'm pretty sure name calling isn't allowed in here.
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tusked

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2017, 12:16:52 pm »

I'm pretty sure name calling isn't allowed in here.

He just don't know who he's talking to.
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go hogues

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2017, 12:21:09 pm »

Arkansas will almost always be a team that finishes in the 6-10 range in the SEC.  It's a talent-base issue, and 25 years of mostly mediocrity is my evidence.  It's just who we are. 

There will be outliers that tease us with the possibility of breaking out of that 6-10 band, but those good years (finishing in the top two or three) are only outliers.  One can usually attribute it to senior leadership or an unusually gifted QB, either can be a decent short-term replacement for team talent.  Fortunately, finishing in the bottom two or three is also an outlier.

We will eventually revert to our mean, after good times and bad.  We will hire and fire without understanding this principle, believing that some new coach can get us there.  No coach can attain a sustaining greatness at Arkansas, anymore than a coach at Florida State can keep them from eventually being who Florida State is.  It's a talent base thing, and unfortunately, ours is fairly small compared to the SEC giants.

Of course there are outliers to this principle, even.  TCU comes to mind as a team that has broken out of their band.  Nebraska has fallen the other way, likely to set a new, lower mean over the coming years.

But generally speaking, programs don't change much.
Good post. Should be required reading before one begins their career posting here at Hogville.
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Roaringboar

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2017, 12:25:05 pm »


But generally speaking, programs don't change much.

Is that a fact??? Tell that to Clemson who last year won their first Natty since 1981........How about Vanderbilt who, after beating K-State, earned their first upset over a ranked team since the 1940s.....No, programs do change all of the time, it's fans with this type of mentality though that cripples their growth.....
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HogHomer

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Re: When will Hogville learn
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2017, 12:35:14 pm »

Is that a fact??? Tell that to Clemson who last year won their first Natty since 1981........How about Vanderbilt who, after beating K-State, earned their first upset over a ranked team since the 1940s.....No, programs do change all of the time, it's fans with this type of mentality though that cripples their growth.....
Draw a circle with a 250 mile radius with Clemson in the center. Now look at all the talent in that radius. Do the same for Arkansas.
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