Hogville Info
• 9,493,544 Posts
• 388,973 Topics
• 22,018 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Paying Players  (Read 2628 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

PLHawg

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Karma: +44/-41
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 399
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Paying Players
« on: September 28, 2017, 10:49:37 am »

All the talking heads are saying the issues we have with the black market for players will never be fixed until we start paying players.  How in the world could the NCAA ever regulate payments to players?  Wouldn't it still be an arms race to see who could offer players the most $, and even if it was regulated wouldn't there still be under the table "bonuses" for top players?  No way paying players could ever work in my opinion.
Logged

311Hog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +779/-1365
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10,724
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2017, 10:53:03 am »

All the talking heads are saying the issues we have with the black market for players will never be fixed until we start paying players.  How in the world could the NCAA ever regulate payments to players?  Wouldn't it still be an arms race to see who could offer players the most $, and even if it was regulated wouldn't there still be under the table "bonuses" for top players?  No way paying players could ever work in my opinion.

then how about the NCAA doesn't make any money off the players?  just cut out all the millions of hard cash and just play the game for nothing or at cost.
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

PLHawg

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Karma: +44/-41
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 399
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2017, 10:59:17 am »

then how about the NCAA doesn't make any money off the players?  just cut out all the millions of hard cash and just play the game for nothing or at cost.


I'm not against paying them per se, I think there should be some way to do it, I just don't see how it could ever be done without the same schools coming out on top year after year.  Seems like it would come down to who has the most $ in their war chest.
Logged

311Hog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +779/-1365
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10,724
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2017, 11:04:19 am »


I'm not against paying them per se, I think there should be some way to do it, I just don't see how it could ever be done without the same schools coming out on top year after year.  Seems like it would come down to who has the most $ in their war chest.

how is that different from how it is now?

The only difference i see is the players are not getting their due cut.
Logged

Hogs49ers

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +25/-23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2017, 11:05:44 am »

All the talking heads are saying the issues we have with the black market for players will never be fixed until we start paying players.  How in the world could the NCAA ever regulate payments to players?  Wouldn't it still be an arms race to see who could offer players the most $, and even if it was regulated wouldn't there still be under the table "bonuses" for top players?  No way paying players could ever work in my opinion.

You must of read the same article I just read. 

This is a great article by Jay Bilas that just came out this morning, you should definitely give it a read if you have not yet done so.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20841877/until-ncaa-solves-money-problem-pays-athletes-problems-continue
Logged

Hogs49ers

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +25/-23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2017, 11:07:43 am »

how is that different from how it is now?

The only difference i see is the players are not getting their due cut.

Exactly, I think the parity argument everyone brings up is lame, the parity could not possibly be any greater than it already is.

"Chris Spatola, a former college coach, Army veteran and point guard at West Point, has smartly analogized the current system of amateurism to Prohibition. Prohibition did not stop people from drinking; it just drove it underground and created a black-market economy. That is exactly what the NCAA is doing with players. These players are worth a ton of money, to schools, to agents and to shoe companies. And these players are worth far more than a scholarship. In fact, a scholarship is the LEAST they are worth. Schools do not have to offer scholarships, but do. They do not have to offer stipends, but do. If they didn't, they would be hurt in the marketplace, even though there is a unilaterally imposed wage cap on athletes."
Logged

LRHawg

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +747/-419
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,514
  • Surfin' Hogville
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2017, 11:07:57 am »

how is that different from how it is now?

The only difference i see is the players are not getting their due cut.

Exactly, it would just be another theatre of war in the college football arms race with facilities, coaching, etc.
Logged

hogfan10

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +218/-167
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,221
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2017, 11:27:31 am »

then how about the NCAA doesn't make any money off the players?  just cut out all the millions of hard cash and just play the game for nothing or at cost.

They are paid:

- Free tuition, boarding, meals, apparel, coaching, facilities, training, advertising, travel, medical care, tickets, potential back up plan to pro basketball etc. & etc.

If they prefer they can skip school, get a job, and train/practice on their own time until the NBA comes calling, and if not they already have a job in their future career.

Sorry quoted the wrong post.
Logged

311Hog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +779/-1365
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10,724
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2017, 11:33:52 am »

They are paid:

- Free tuition, boarding, meals, apparel, coaching, facilities, training, advertising, travel, medical care, tickets, potential back up plan to pro basketball etc. & etc.

If they prefer they can skip school, get a job, and train/practice on their own time until the NBA comes calling, and if not they already have a job in their future career.

Sorry quoted the wrong post.

I think it is pretty much universally accepted that while players do get all you mentioned and more it is no where near their actual value. 

If it were than this black market for players would not exist.  People know that millions and millions of dollars are being made and that none of this would be possible without the players.  So being the big man on campus is pretty awesome, it is not nearly as awesome as being a millionaire at 20.  I mean entire sports are being subsidized by the profits generated by a handful.

I mean schools could totally suspend the tuition etc. portion pay them as employees and move on.

A choice will have to be made or has been made and not eveyone knows/agrees with it.
Logged

ShadowHawg

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +43/-352
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,105
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2017, 11:47:34 am »

They are paid:

- Free tuition, boarding, meals, apparel, coaching, facilities, training, advertising, travel, medical care, tickets, potential back up plan to pro basketball etc. & etc.

If they prefer they can skip school, get a job, and train/practice on their own time until the NBA comes calling, and if not they already have a job in their future career.

Sorry quoted the wrong post.
.

Lol

They are limited in training/practice, facilities, can do more advertising in high school, travel?, what back up plan?

A bachelors degree is as close to worthless as a high school diploma these days. Being a former player is not worth what so many blowhards claim either. The majority of our championship team work low level jobs.

It is harder to excel academically being a player in one of the money sports because of demands on time.

Whether anyone thinks these guys should be paid or not is debatable. Claiming that they actually are is laughable.


Logged

Kevin

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +4421/-4422
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 21,159
  • Trust in the Lord with all your heart
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2017, 12:29:18 pm »

Paying them does not stop what has happened

For example, let's say all power 5 conference teams gave full scholarships plus $5000 a year to players.  That is not going to stop somebody paying the player $100,000 to go to a certain school
Logged

Hogs49ers

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +25/-23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2017, 12:33:44 pm »

Paying them does not stop what has happened

For example, let's say all power 5 conference teams gave full scholarships plus $5000 a year to players.  That is not going to stop somebody paying the player $100,000 to go to a certain school

Well then pay them what they are actually worth, $5,000 is not enough.  It may not completely solve the issue, but I definitely think it will help. 

Read this from Jay Bilas, it really made sense to me:

"When have you ever heard of a coach being steered to an agent? When have you ever heard of bribes to get a coach to accept a job? When have you ever heard of a bribe to get an athletic director to switch schools? You don't hear such things because those people are allowed to be paid in a free market. It is an aboveboard business, and it works in an orderly fashion. There are contracts with contract remedies. That pesky free market works incredibly well and efficiently for everyone else; it is foolish to assert that it would not work just as well for college athletes. After all, these schools know exactly whom to recruit and whom to play the most minutes in the games. They know whom to pay and how much."
Logged

Cubbie08

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +88/-177
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,069
  • Scooby Snacks?
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2017, 12:45:57 pm »

So you start paying athletes. Most of them now become state employees. Think about everything that will go along with that.
Logged

STLhawg

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Karma: +33/-61
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 422
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2017, 12:49:11 pm »

I think it is pretty much universally accepted that while players do get all you mentioned and more it is no where near their actual value. 

If it were than this black market for players would not exist.
I say hogwash!  Some players are going to always want more.

If the player doesn't like the deal the NCCA/school is offering (meaning free tuition, boarding, meals, coaching, medical, etc.) then they are completely FREE to do something else.  What NEEDS to happen is that players need to be allowed to go straight from HS to the NBA if they so choose, and if they decide to go the college route then they need to commit to a minimum of two years -- so no more of this one-and-done BS!!
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1100/-1742
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,033
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2017, 12:53:42 pm »

You must of read the same article I just read. 

This is a great article by Jay Bilas that just came out this morning, you should definitely give it a read if you have not yet done so.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20841877/until-ncaa-solves-money-problem-pays-athletes-problems-continue
Not sure I'd say great. So many holes in his argument and he's just trying to use this scandal to push his narrative that he wants players to be paid or be able to use their own likeness. Not saying any of that is wrong, however, the bribery and paying to get a player to said campus is what the issue at hand is today. (The other part is really coaches to agents so paying players doesn't solve that.) You are still going to have people that want to influence players where to go. Now once they get there and you are paying them or they are allowed to make money off their likeness then great. But players and parents will still accept the bribe, and people are still going to make offers to get a certain player where they want him to go.

Jay is naive and wrong if he thinks paying players changes any of  that.
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1100/-1742
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,033
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2017, 12:56:12 pm »

I think it is pretty much universally accepted that while players do get all you mentioned and more it is no where near their actual value. 

If it were than this black market for players would not exist.  People know that millions and millions of dollars are being made and that none of this would be possible without the players.  So being the big man on campus is pretty awesome, it is not nearly as awesome as being a millionaire at 20.  I mean entire sports are being subsidized by the profits generated by a handful.

The black market today is getting the player on campus. Not once he's there. Again, paying a player or letting him make money on his own likeness is all great. But most of these "payments" were while the athlete was still in high school. Coaches/agents/etc. are still going to try and push a recruit to a certain school....how are they going to do that $$$
Logged

STLhawg

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Karma: +33/-61
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 422
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2017, 12:58:39 pm »

Well then pay them what they are actually worth, $5,000 is not enough.  It may not completely solve the issue, but I definitely think it will help. 
That really won't help at all.  You really think the same players aren't going to take offers of $100k to go play for school X just because they get that?

Read this from Jay Bilas, it really made sense to me:

"When have you ever heard of a coach being steered to an agent? When have you ever heard of bribes to get a coach to accept a job? When have you ever heard of a bribe to get an athletic director to switch schools? You don't hear such things because those people are allowed to be paid in a free market. It is an aboveboard business, and it works in an orderly fashion. There are contracts with contract remedies. That pesky free market works incredibly well and efficiently for everyone else; it is foolish to assert that it would not work just as well for college athletes. After all, these schools know exactly whom to recruit and whom to play the most minutes in the games. They know whom to pay and how much."
Bilas is an idiot.  If all coaches were getting paid the same -- say $500k/year -- because that was the max allowable limit, then you better believe there would be under-the-table payments.  Coaches aren't all paid the same because they are PROFESSIONALS.  If a high school player doesn't want to live by the AMATEUR rules then let him go PRO instead!  That, along with better rule enforcement, is what is needed to clean up the college game!  If the NCAA really wants to clean things up they should have plenty of money to do that -- maybe this scandal is enough to "scare them straight".


Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1100/-1742
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,033
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2017, 12:58:48 pm »

Well then pay them what they are actually worth, $5,000 is not enough.  It may not completely solve the issue, but I definitely think it will help. 

Read this from Jay Bilas, it really made sense to me:

"When have you ever heard of a coach being steered to an agent? When have you ever heard of bribes to get a coach to accept a job? When have you ever heard of a bribe to get an athletic director to switch schools? You don't hear such things because those people are allowed to be paid in a free market. It is an aboveboard business, and it works in an orderly fashion. There are contracts with contract remedies. That pesky free market works incredibly well and efficiently for everyone else; it is foolish to assert that it would not work just as well for college athletes. After all, these schools know exactly whom to recruit and whom to play the most minutes in the games. They know whom to pay and how much."
You don't have bribes to get Coach X, because there aren't 100 schools after Coach X. Every year EVERY university has scholarships to give. Every year every college isn't looking for a head coach......The market for players and coaches are not even close to the same. Again like I said Jay Bilas completely missed the mark and was trying to push his "players should be paid" agenda.
Logged

King Kong

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +402/-376
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3,919
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2017, 01:04:42 pm »

It's a simple fix IMO. Allow players to make money off their likeness. However, the schools don't pay them anymore than what they are currently.

So if Arkansas can get a kid because a car dealership will offer him $75,000 to do a commercial so be it. Or if Nike wants to pay 100,000 for a 5 star to go to a Nike school so be it.
Logged

Hogs49ers

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +25/-23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2017, 01:10:38 pm »

Not sure I'd say great. So many holes in his argument and he's just trying to use this scandal to push his narrative that he wants players to be paid or be able to use their own likeness. Not saying any of that is wrong, however, the bribery and paying to get a player to said campus is what the issue at hand is today. (The other part is really coaches to agents so paying players doesn't solve that.) You are still going to have people that want to influence players where to go. Now once they get there and you are paying them or they are allowed to make money off their likeness then great. But players and parents will still accept the bribe, and people are still going to make offers to get a certain player where they want him to go.

Jay is naive and wrong if he thinks paying players changes any of  that.

Well if the players start getting paid what they are worth in college, then the people will not have nearly the influence they have on these kids today because they will not be able to dazzle some $100 bills in their face to influence them.  Players will also want to stay in college instead of shooting to the NBA after 1 year because they do not need the money as bad, so they would be more likely to stay in school longer and get their degree.

I mainly do not like it now because when you really look at this system, it is completely unfair.  The NCAA is corrupt and only cares about the bottom line just like any other business.  You know if they were truly all about the students and the education, I would think differently, but their decisions are based on what will make them the most money. 

I think if the NCAA does not seriously start thinking about the players and putting them before their own self-interest, you will start seeing a huge trend of players going straight over seas out of highschool to make money for 1 year and then come back to the NBA.

Also, I completely agree that there holes in the paying players argument; but there are also a ton of holes in the current, currupt system and I honestly believe they have to make some major changes! I respect your opinion though.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 01:26:38 pm by Hogs49ers »
Logged

Kevin

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +4421/-4422
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 21,159
  • Trust in the Lord with all your heart
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2017, 01:14:17 pm »

first I gave it as an example. plus, with title IX there is no way to pay a player.
if players believe that they are that good, then go to the nba.
Logged

hogfan10

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +218/-167
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,221
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2017, 01:36:20 pm »

.

Lol

They are limited in training/practice, facilities, can do more advertising in high school, travel?, what back up plan?

A bachelors degree is as close to worthless as a high school diploma these days. Being a former player is not worth what so many blowhards claim either. The majority of our championship team work low level jobs.

It is harder to excel academically being a player in one of the money sports because of demands on time.

Whether anyone thinks these guys should be paid or not is debatable. Claiming that they actually are is laughable.



- No more limited than they would be if they had a job and did it on their own. Advertising, as in on TV against other similarly skilled athletes. Free travel to games. College degree, better than High School diploma when it comes to getting a job outside of professional sports; name one professional possession that does not require a degree at the minimum (teacher/COACH, accountant, dr., nurse, engineer, lawyer, etc.).

- I guess by your own statement a college degree is worth more than you say, otherwise the non-degreed players from the '94 team would be working in something other than low level employment. There were also some players on that team that took advantage of their educational opportunities.

- Thanks, I missed this one, they get free tutors. Athletes do spend a lot of time training regardless of sport (money generating or not).

They can always choose not to play college, being a hardship and all. Sometimes you make some sacrifices today to reap the benefits tomorrow.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 01:52:17 pm by hogfan10 »
Logged

hogfan10

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +218/-167
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,221
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2017, 01:40:47 pm »

I think if the NCAA does not seriously start thinking about the players and putting them before their own self-interest, you will start seeing a huge trend of players going straight over seas out of highschool to make money for 1 year and then come back to the NBA.

Personally, I think this would make the game better. The game would be more about team work than individual play.
Logged

HamIAm

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +458/-666
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,261
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2017, 01:56:23 pm »

apparently assistant coaches don't get paid or they wouldn't have taken the money
Logged

LRHawg

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +747/-419
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,514
  • Surfin' Hogville
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2017, 01:56:32 pm »

Personally, I think this would make the game better. The game would be more about team work than individual play.

if it starts happening with a lot of the elite prospects, then you know the money's dried up here...
Logged

ShadowHawg

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +43/-352
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,105
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2017, 02:17:18 pm »

- No more limited than they would be if they had a job and did it on their own. Advertising, as in on TV against other similarly skilled athletes. Free travel to games. College degree, better than High School diploma when it comes to getting a job outside of professional sports; name one professional possession that does not require a degree at the minimum (teacher/COACH, accountant, dr., nurse, engineer, lawyer, etc.).

- I guess by your own statement a college degree is worth more than you say, otherwise the non-degreed players from the '94 team would be working in something other than low level employment. There were also some players on that team that took advantage of their educational opportunities.

- Thanks, I missed this one, they get free tutors. Athletes do spend a lot of time training regardless of sport (money generating or not).

They can always choose not to play college, being a hardship and all. Sometimes you make some sacrifices today to reap the benefits tomorrow.

Pffft. You sound bitter.

Scotty Thurman made more money before he completed his degree than most of the guys that got their degrees on that team.

You forgot the best perk though. Athletes get to keep your girl company while you were working at McDonalds because you had no talent to get a scholly with. I'll hang up and listen.
Logged

311Hog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +779/-1365
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10,724
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2017, 02:39:17 pm »

The black market today is getting the player on campus. Not once he's there. Again, paying a player or letting him make money on his own likeness is all great. But most of these "payments" were while the athlete was still in high school. Coaches/agents/etc. are still going to try and push a recruit to a certain school....how are they going to do that $$$

the defenses for this are pathetic at best.

You all clearly know that NBAish level basketball players are a RARE commodity all evidence points to this being a fact.  Rare things cost alot of money generally.

THere is no way in the world all of these people would risk JAIL TIME if it were not worth 100s of thousands of dollars to them, one of the reasons it is so lucrative is because the player themselves is not able to simply take what they are worth "yet".

So all these hands that are out are only getting fed because the player has no recourse in any other job it would not be the case.

I mean look at CEOs supposedly these people are the best of the best worth billions and companies engage in bidding wars for them all the time and no one bats an eye, but then you have a kid that could make money playing a sport because there is clearly money to be made, and they are forbade from doing so because everyone else has to get their cut first.
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1100/-1742
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,033
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2017, 02:52:41 pm »

Well if the players start getting paid what they are worth in college, then the people will not have nearly the influence they have on these kids today because they will not be able to dazzle some $100 bills in their face to influence them.  Players will also want to stay in college instead of shooting to the NBA after 1 year because they do not need the money as bad, so they would be more likely to stay in school longer and get their degree.

I mainly do not like it now because when you really look at this system, it is completely unfair.  The NCAA is corrupt and only cares about the bottom line just like any other business.  You know if they were truly all about the students and the education, I would think differently, but their decisions are based on what will make them the most money. 

I think if the NCAA does not seriously start thinking about the players and putting them before their own self-interest, you will start seeing a huge trend of players going straight over seas out of highschool to make money for 1 year and then come back to the NBA.

Also, I completely agree that there holes in the paying players argument; but there are also a ton of holes in the current, currupt system and I honestly believe they have to make some major changes! I respect your opinion though.
Again, your argument is once they are in college. A lot of money trades hands before athletes even get into college. Heck half the coaches arrested, were arrested due to activities with 2018 recruits. Those guys aren't even there yet.
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1100/-1742
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,033
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2017, 02:55:27 pm »

the defenses for this are pathetic at best.

You all clearly know that NBAish level basketball players are a RARE commodity all evidence points to this being a fact.  Rare things cost alot of money generally.

THere is no way in the world all of these people would risk JAIL TIME if it were not worth 100s of thousands of dollars to them, one of the reasons it is so lucrative is because the player themselves is not able to simply take what they are worth "yet".

So all these hands that are out are only getting fed because the player has no recourse in any other job it would not be the case.

I mean look at CEOs supposedly these people are the best of the best worth billions and companies engage in bidding wars for them all the time and no one bats an eye, but then you have a kid that could make money playing a sport because there is clearly money to be made, and they are forbade from doing so because everyone else has to get their cut first.
In your own example....even CEO's can't say no to money. Pay these kids and they will still take bribes and cash from other people. They can never have enough.
Logged

eddiejones40

  • Walk-On
  • *
  • Karma: +1/-6
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2017, 02:57:45 pm »

People talk about how the school makes millions off these kids it's no different from any other job nobody gets paid what there worth. A corporation can make millions of dollars do you think the average worker gets paid what there worth I say no.
Logged

Kevin

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +4421/-4422
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 21,159
  • Trust in the Lord with all your heart
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2017, 02:59:58 pm »

amazing all the holier than thou people , have no problem throwing the value of a college degree right under the bus, to justify their position.

Since getting my degree, I have not had one job that did not require it.
Logged

hogfan10

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +218/-167
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,221
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2017, 03:12:39 pm »

Pffft. You sound bitter.

Scotty Thurman made more money before he completed his degree than most of the guys that got their degrees on that team.

You forgot the best perk though. Athletes get to keep your girl company while you were working at McDonalds because you had no talent to get a scholly with. I'll hang up and listen.

Bitter don't think so, and definitely not do to the reasons you insinuate; for one I didn't work a single day while in college (5 years), secondly I had an academic scholarship.
Good for ST, I'm happy for him. Now, let's talk about the guys that wasted their opportunity vs. the ones that took advantage of it. Which by the way is exactly what would of happened with any cash that they would have been paid if allowable (wasted it).
Noticeably missing from your response though, was any argument against what I had stated.
Logged

farfromgroovins

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Karma: +11/-15
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 150
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2017, 03:13:06 pm »

Let them put their names in for the NBA draft and if they get selected, they gone. Then have a late late late signing period after the draft where schools can sign the ones that just missed out (they would have been recruiting them most likely anyway.) The schools have to demonstrate they have a scholly available for them. Risk is on the coaches to gamble and leave a scholly for some of those 3 stars that think they might get drafted. Didn't the Hogs lose out to Al Jefferson back in the day? That's part of the game. You want to recruit only 4-5 stars, you may end up with no stars.

There are only 2 rounds (60 picks) anyway so the amount of talent going out of HS will not dilute the college game. Being only 2 rounds, there won't be an abundance or rush of HS kids entering the draft because they know only the top recruits will get drafted. It removes the top recruits (the shoe contracts) from the picture. What shoe company wants to pay $100k for a HS kid that just missed out on the draft?
Logged

Hogs49ers

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +25/-23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2017, 03:57:27 pm »

Again, your argument is once they are in college. A lot of money trades hands before athletes even get into college. Heck half the coaches arrested, were arrested due to activities with 2018 recruits. Those guys aren't even there yet.

I realize that, but my thoughts are that I do not think the players will think it is worth the risk/reward to break the rules by accepting money before they get there when they know they are about to be set up with a nice payday once they are in college.  The risk being much higher to accept that money because if they set up the rules correctly, and have it to where they would have to forfeit their chance to play for money in college if they are caught taking bribes before they get there. 

Understand that there is never going to be a perfect way to handle this when you are talking about dealing with extremely valuable assets making decisions at a young age that affect the equity and value of where they go.  There are always going to be shady people around trying make their cut when this type of equity is changing hands, but all they can do is try to set it up where they do their best to eliminate as much of this as possible.  The current system is basically set up to where that kind of shady activity thrives.
Logged

hogfan10

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +218/-167
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,221
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2017, 04:03:08 pm »

I realize that, but my thoughts are that I do not think the players will think it is worth the risk/reward to break the rules by accepting money before they get there when they know they are about to be set up with a nice payday once they are in college.  The risk being much higher to accept that money because if they set up the rules correctly, and have it to where they would have to forfeit their chance to play for money in college if they are caught taking bribes before they get there. 

Understand that there is never going to be a perfect way to handle this when you are talking about dealing with extremely valuable assets making decisions at a young age that affect the equity and value of where they go.  There are always going to be shady people around trying make their cut when this type of equity is changing hands, but all they can do it try to set it up where they do their best to eliminate as much of this as possible.  The current system is basically set up to where that kind of shady activity thrives.

You realize that the players are taking the money now, knowing/hoping that they will hit the NBA lottery in a year or two w/o considering or caring about the consequences of getting caught. Paying them in college in excess of what they're already receiving, within the rules, won't stop "people" from breaking the rules to give/get a little extra on the side.
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1100/-1742
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,033
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2017, 04:06:48 pm »

I realize that, but my thoughts are that I do not think the players will think it is worth the risk/reward to break the rules by accepting money before they get there when they know they are about to be set up with a nice payday once they are in college.
Problem solved because someone "thinks" it will work. Let's just disregard the fact that people continuously break rules no matter how much money they make. Heck even professional athletes can't stop from trying to break rules to gain more success and money.
Logged

Hogs49ers

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +25/-23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2017, 04:06:55 pm »

You realize that the players are taking the money now, knowing/hoping that they will hit the NBA lottery in a year or two w/o considering or caring about the consequences of getting caught. Paying them in college in excess of what they're already receiving, within the rules, won't stop "people" from breaking the rules to give/get a little extra on the side.

Yes I obviously know that.  Then set it up to where they have to stay in college for 3-4 years, they will have to sign a contract if they accept money in college, so just make it a 3-4 year contract.
Logged

Hogs49ers

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +25/-23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2017, 04:12:52 pm »

Problem solved because someone "thinks" it will work. Let's just disregard the fact that people continuously break rules no matter how much money they make. Heck even professional athletes can't stop from trying to break rules to gain more success and money.

That is not a very strong argument for you bud.  Yes people will always break rules no matter what, but are you honestly saying that the current system cannot be made better to where it makes a whole lot less sense to break the rules?

So I am curious, who do you think deserves all the 100s of millions of dollars made by the college athletes every year?  The school because they are all about giving back and going to put it in education and make it better?  Then where are all of our 100s of thousands of dollars for a kids tuition going to? They are stacking a kid up with debt till they are 40+ and now it is to the point where everyone and their mother has a degree (I do have one as well and am still paying off debt) so the actual value of getting said degree is not worth nearly as much. 
Logged

311Hog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +779/-1365
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10,724
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2017, 04:17:26 pm »

You realize that the players are taking the money now, knowing/hoping that they will hit the NBA lottery in a year or two w/o considering or caring about the consequences of getting caught. Paying them in college in excess of what they're already receiving, within the rules, won't stop "people" from breaking the rules to give/get a little extra on the side.

i don't think you understand what the big deal is with regards to the FBI investigation.

I will try and sum it up.

Asst. Coach types and others are in bed with Financial managers/business men, who are connected up with shoe company executive types.

The player is not the one starting this, but they are the ones being "bought".  Basically these people are looking for the patronage of a "can't miss" NBA prospect.  So that 5 star PG, ADIDAS wants him to sign with them after his 1 year in "college" is up so they float some cash to his Great Uncle through a manager of some kind communicating with an Assistant coach because they are watched "less" than a Head coach and paid less thus subject to being paid off themselves.

So 5 star PG gets 100 grand on the spot through channels set up to funnel it to him.  Goes to the college he was steared to that is affliated with the shoe company that had a part in getting him 100k richer are you following it now?

Basically these guys have set up a system of pay offs and kick backs to do nothing more than hire a basketball player to endorse their freaking product.

Why ? because there is money in it lots of it.
Logged

BannerMountainMan

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +21/-10
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 982
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2017, 04:19:56 pm »

Stupidest idea ever for college players to get paid. THEY ARE GETTING EVERYTHING PAID FOR AND A CHANCE AT GETTING A GREAT JOB AFTER COLLEGE FOR FREE! Are u kidding me guys
Logged

Hogs49ers

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +25/-23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2017, 04:26:35 pm »

Personally, I think this would make the game better. The game would be more about team work than individual play.

Yah you're probably right.  I can agree with that.
Logged

PLHawg

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Karma: +44/-41
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 399
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2017, 04:35:27 pm »

Oh yeah, how would paying college athletes mesh with Title IX?  Answer:  it wouldn't.  If the NCAA sets up a system to start paying big-time college athletes in the revenue sports (FB, Ball), it would be in direct violation of Title IX, and the resulting lawsuits would bog down the whole system for years.  Making college athletes officially professional athletes is a pipe dream.  Not gonna happen.
Logged

HawgnCorona

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +402/-329
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 6,584
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2017, 04:40:41 pm »

then how about the NCAA doesn't make any money off the players?  just cut out all the millions of hard cash and just play the game for nothing or at cost.

That speaks to its business structure, right? As a not for profit the money  from the tournaments, etc supposedly is redistributed to Universities, other organizations. However, DONATIONS ( word play) are gladly accepted.

But the old saying goes,  "non speak louder than the guilty." Pitino is toast now and Emmert could next...

Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1100/-1742
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,033
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2017, 04:48:28 pm »

That is not a very strong argument for you bud.  Yes people will always break rules no matter what, but are you honestly saying that the current system cannot be made better to where it makes a whole lot less sense to break the rules?

So I am curious, who do you think deserves all the 100s of millions of dollars made by the college athletes every year?  The school because they are all about giving back and going to put it in education and make it better?  Then where are all of our 100s of thousands of dollars for a kids tuition going to? They are stacking a kid up with debt till they are 40+ and now it is to the point where everyone and their mother has a degree (I do have one as well and am still paying off debt) so the actual value of getting said degree is not worth nearly as much.
I personally think the money being shelled out is way too high. Will eventually collapse. But school deserves a lot of it. Like I said if you want to pay the kids, then pay them but don't give out scholarships. Let them pay to attend the school, room and board, food, and all of that. Also, have them pay income tax on that money that they have made.

The issue with the wage is you have to keep that flat and fair for all schools. So that's going to be the hard part.
Logged

Hogs49ers

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +25/-23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2017, 04:51:04 pm »

I personally think the money being shelled out is way too high. Will eventually collapse. But school deserves a lot of it. Like I said if you want to pay the kids, then pay them but don't give out scholarships. Let them pay to attend the school, room and board, food, and all of that. Also, have them pay income tax on that money that they have made.

The issue with the wage is you have to keep that flat and fair for all schools. So that's going to be the hard part.

I agree with this, thanks for the debate.
Logged

1highhog

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1808/-1063
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,292
  • Marcher doucement mais porter un gros bāton.
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2017, 04:53:13 pm »

All the talking heads are saying the issues we have with the black market for players will never be fixed until we start paying players.  How in the world could the NCAA ever regulate payments to players?  Wouldn't it still be an arms race to see who could offer players the most $, and even if it was regulated wouldn't there still be under the table "bonuses" for top players?  No way paying players could ever work in my opinion.

No, there will still be all types of corruption as you brought out because of the world we live in, there's going to be those that are going to break the rules and try to pay extra for the top players.  Nothing is going to work as long as there is greed.
Logged

azhog10

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1100/-1742
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 9,033
  • Razorback Basketball on the rise!
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2017, 04:53:19 pm »

I agree with this, thanks for the debate.
Not to mention you cant pay men and not women. So you are having to pay all athletes. If you think the universities are making a lot of money now they won't be making enough to build new facilities for their athletes. It will get expensive real quick when you have to pay all athletes and there's no way around not paying all athletes the second you decide to start paying some. The courts have made that extremely clear with Title IX
Logged

Hogs49ers

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +25/-23
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 936
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2017, 04:55:13 pm »

Not to mention you cant pay men and not women. So you are having to pay all athletes. If you think the universities are making a lot of money now they won't be making enough to build new facilities for their athletes. It will get expensive real quick when you have to pay all athletes and there's no way around not paying all athletes the second you decide to start paying some. The courts have made that extremely clear with Title IX

I agree, it would definitely be an issue and would be a difficult situation to navigate.  I for one respect Title IX, but would it not be fair to pay them all, but just based on how much revenue they bring in by sport?  I am not suggesting going down to the player level and say a QB is more valuable than a FB so the QB should get this much more.  This would not be easy and would most likely cause some problems, but they are paid in WNBA based on the value and revenue they bring in which is much less than a player would get in the NBA based on the value and equity they bring in.  Do not think this would be something that could not be worked around.

Been fun guys, but I actually should do a little bit of work while I am at work. ;)
Logged

ShadowHawg

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +43/-352
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,105
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2017, 06:23:29 pm »

amazing all the holier than thou people , have no problem throwing the value of a college degree right under the bus, to justify their position.

Since getting my degree, I have not had one job that did not require it.

Yes you have. Nearly all jobs accept in field experience in place of degrees. I know multiple people right now who are engineers at the companies they work for who do not have even an associates.
Logged

Sow Lancelot

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +108/-125
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1,309
  • #NumquamDescedete!
Re: Paying Players
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2017, 06:47:39 pm »

Well then pay them what they are actually worth, $5,000 is not enough.  It may not completely solve the issue, but I definitely think it will help. 
Turning the NCAA schools into NBA-Lite. I'm pretty sure the NBA already seeks to pay a player what he is worth. Just get rid of the one-year rule.

So what if the talent of college basketball falls a bit?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas