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Poll

Are you participating in the national boycott of the NFL?

YES, I am participating in the national boycott of the NFL
- 48 (52.7%)
NO, I will not boycott the NFL
- 43 (47.3%)

Total Members Voted: 91

Voting closed: October 16, 2017, 04:42:13 pm


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Author Topic: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?  (Read 1016 times)

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BigBrandonAllenFan

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POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« on: September 25, 2017, 04:42:13 pm »

As we are all well aware, many people are boycotting the NFL, including not going to games, not watching the NFL on TV, and not purchasing NFL gear.  And even refusing to buy products from sponsors of players that refuse to stand for the national anthem.

You must vote to view results of the poll.

What is your take on the NFL issue?
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grayhawg

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 04:56:36 pm »

I stopped watching last season when the NFL done nothing to CK for kneeling, he is only trying to bring attention to himself and disrespecting the flag is not going to help his cause.
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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 05:14:09 pm »

I have read a lot of stuff on the issue.  I read today that the NFL is having to reimburse sponsors because the TV ratings are below the guarantee.  If that is true, it can't be good for anyone in the league, owners and players alike.

We will see where this goes as the season progresses.
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Veritas Arkansas

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 05:14:55 pm »

Negative.

And I think people boycotting the NFL because of this are snowflakes.
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grayhawg

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 05:47:28 pm »

Negative.

And I think people boycotting the NFL because of this are snowflakes.
Why?
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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2017, 06:04:21 pm »

Negative.

And I think people boycotting the NFL because of this are snowflakes.

I actually didn't ask what you think of people on the other side, but I guess you can go there if you want to, as I guess that could pertain to your thoughts on the issue as posed in the question.  But I was actually asking your thoughts on the issue itself, not what you think of other people's personal stand. 

I was trying to keep it respectfully civil. 

Carry on as you may.

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Dr. Starcs

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2017, 06:15:14 pm »

Yesterday was the first Sunday I've been home in my life when I didn't watch any games.

I will boycott if my team (Dallas) participates in these protests.
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warriorlion

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2017, 07:40:55 pm »

Didn't watch a play yesterday and won't as long as this continues.  Players want to protest they can find a better way than disrespecting the flag that gives them the right to protest.
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Veritas Arkansas

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 07:41:23 pm »

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grayhawg

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 07:46:48 pm »

Because.
Because you have zero respect for our folks who have died for that flag? And you have the nerve to call those who do respect what the flag stands for snowflakes.
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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 07:52:32 pm »

I appreciate the good number of people that are participating in the poll.  Thanks to all.
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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 07:55:19 pm »

Yesterday was the first Sunday I've been home in my life when I didn't watch any games.

I will boycott if my team (Dallas) participates in these protests.

Does anyone know if any Dallas players refused to stand tonight?
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Veritas Arkansas

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 08:14:00 pm »

Because you have zero respect for our folks who have died for that flag? And you have the nerve to call those who do respect what the flag stands for snowflakes.

I have the utmost respect for people who died for our flag.

But people who are protesting by taking a knee aren't disrespecting the flag any more than Rosa Parks disrespected public transit by not moving to the back of the bus.

Boycotting the NFL because some players take a knee, when the NFL has had (and currently has) many actual violent criminals on rosters, and. Or boycotting, is nothing more than giving in to PC and looking to be offended.
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Veritas Arkansas

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 08:14:37 pm »

Does anyone know if any Dallas players refused to stand tonight?

The entire team took a knee, but stood when the national anthem began playing.
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Karma

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 08:16:02 pm »

Does anyone know if any Dallas players refused to stand tonight?
Jerry and the whole team took a knee before the anthem, then Stood.
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grayhawg

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2017, 08:21:24 pm »

I have the utmost respect for people who died for our flag.

But people who are protesting by taking a knee aren't disrespecting the flag any more than Rosa Parks disrespected public transit by not moving to the back of the bus.

Boycotting the NFL because some players take a knee, when the NFL has had (and currently has) many actual violent criminals on rosters, and. Or boycotting, is nothing more than giving in to PC and looking to be offended.
That's a cop out, if you protest the National Anthem you actions are saying you have no respect for those people.
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Ward

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2017, 08:21:59 pm »

I am now

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twistitup

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2017, 08:23:25 pm »

Why would I do that?
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EastexHawg

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2017, 08:24:11 pm »

Apparently the NFL thinks they are catering to their target audience.  I think they are currently, and will continue to be, sadly mistaken.
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Veritas Arkansas

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2017, 08:27:57 pm »

That's a cop out, if you protest the National Anthem you actions are saying you have no respect for those people.

I completely disagree.

The flag and anthem are not the exclusive province of our military.
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grayhawg

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2017, 08:38:28 pm »

I completely disagree.

The flag and anthem are not the exclusive province of our military.
Go ahead and be wrong all you want.

https://www.united-states-flag.com/flags-and-their-importance.html
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bennyl08

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2017, 08:41:46 pm »

That's a cop out, if you protest the National Anthem you actions are saying you have no respect for those people.

Absolutely baloney and I know several active duty and former military who disagree. Hell, some of them would be kneeling as well because they know the anthem and the flag don't represent their brothers in arms any more than Justin Beiber does.
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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2017, 08:56:55 pm »

Absolutely baloney and I know several active duty and former military who disagree. Hell, some of them would be kneeling as well because they know the anthem and the flag don't represent their brothers in arms any more than Justin Beiber does.

BS.  Where are they?  Show us.  I have not seen a single man or woman iniform not standing for the flag.
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grayhawg

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2017, 09:00:21 pm »

Absolutely baloney and I know several active duty and former military who disagree. Hell, some of them would be kneeling as well because they know the anthem and the flag don't represent their brothers in arms any more than Justin Beiber does.
And I know several veterans as well as some active duty who say your stance is wrong.
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bennyl08

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2017, 09:27:31 pm »

And I know several veterans as well as some active duty who say your stance is wrong.

I do as well.

It's a song. It means different things to different people.

For some, the national anthem represents the soldiers who have fought for the country. For others, it does not.

I don't fault anybody for personally linking the two together. What I find to be stupid is to assume that everybody else feels the exact same way about the song as you.

It would be like a parent getting upset at anybody that badmouths justin beiber because their daughter loved bieber and was killed and thus anybody badmouthing bieber is badmouthing that parent's deceased daughter. That would be ridiculous. Not everybody is going to have the same attachment. Same thing is true with the national anthem. It's absolutely fine for you to feel the anthem represents service men and women and respect it accordingly. However, don't just assume that everybody else feels the same way.
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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2017, 09:50:26 pm »

The entire team took a knee, but stood when the national anthem began playing.

Found this quote from Jerry Jones. 

Jerry Jones, Owner of the Dallas Cowboys called a meeting with all of his Coaches, Players and field staff and firmly told them, "You are all simply paid performers on a stage and that field is my stage! You will stand, with your hand over your heart and with respect, when our Country's National Anthem is being played or you will no longer be a Dallas Cowboy, a Coach for the Dallas Cowboys or have any association with the Dallas Cowboy Organization! I will immediately fire you, no matter who you are!"
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Veritas Arkansas

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2017, 09:51:48 pm »

Found this quote from Jerry Jones. 

Jerry Jones, Owner of the Dallas Cowboys called a meeting with all of his Coaches, Players and field staff and firmly told them, "You are all simply paid performers on a stage and that field is my stage! You will stand, with your hand over your heart and with respect, when our Country's National Anthem is being played or you will no longer be a Dallas Cowboy, a Coach for the Dallas Cowboys or have any association with the Dallas Cowboy Organization! I will immediately fire you, no matter who you are!"

Jerry has denied that he said that.
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grayhawg

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2017, 09:57:07 pm »

Jerry has denied that he said that.
Yep made up post on facebook.
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McKdaddy

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2017, 10:06:51 pm »

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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2017, 10:18:37 pm »

Yep made up post on facebook.

That's believable.
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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2017, 10:25:16 pm »

Again, thanks to everyone participating in the poll.  It is good to get a real gauge on the numbers.

I've seen polls with numbers as high as 96% in favor of the boycott, and I found those numbers hard to believe.  50/50 is much more realistic.

Still, at 50%, if the boycotters stand firm, it will be crippling for the NFL.  That's a ton of revenue lost.
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Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2017, 10:31:00 pm »

You have to really twist things up to pretend that the national anthem and the flag don't represent soldiers that have fought under and died for that flag.  It also stands for all the rest of the Americans that have come together under the flag.

We don't have one common ethnic or geographical background.  We don't all have the same blood lines or religious creeds.  We have the flag.  We have the national anthem that honors that flag.

People from other countries don't understand why there are so many American flags, and it is for that reason.  We as a country are united not by simple ancestory, but by a common belief that America is great because we are always striving to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.

I see fools only talk about all the bad in this country.  I see ignorance when they only point to the dark corners of our history.  I'm disappointed with the false narrative that CK espoused concerning police brutality.  It is the vogue thing for the intellectually dishonest and the emotionally shallow people to protest the very country that gives them the freedom to trample on the things that so many...most Americans in fact...view as sacred.

There are so many ways that we can speak to each other today to get our point across that we don't need the constant protest.  There was a day when people had no other avenue, other than to walk down some avenue to a city square or a public building in mass.  Simply not the case today.  CK could have bought air time and made a PSA.  He could have addressed it in a post game interview.  He could have called up any number of national radio shows and made his voice heard.  No, he did something that he knew would be offensive.  Actually, I'm not sure if he is smart enough to realize how offensive and stupid he was being, because he surely wasn't  creative enough to use all the other areas that would have been more effective.  Yes, more effective.  His actions and those of many of the other players have only polarized the two sides.  No real change, no real dialogue, just more yelling and mistrust...and loss of revenue for the NFL.

Veritas, I'm not a snowflake because I"m not watching the NFL over this.  I just have better things to do.  Sports for me has always been a place where I could forget about all the craziness of the world, the tragedy and struggles of real life and enjoy people succeeding and winning.  All the other news seems to be bad, sports news was always about people doing their best to represent their team.  The only colors that mattered were the color of the uniform, and we all came together for a couple of hours, forgetting our differences and having our team in common.  Well, now we can't even have that.

So, I read a book, play with my kids, watch American Pickers, do something else with my time that doesn't involve the tantrums of the emotionally immature.

Are there serious problems still in America?  Yes.  Lets talk about them.  Don't disrupt the few things that we have where we can all come together for a while and forget our differences.  We need those times.  We don't always have to be political and biased at every moment.

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grayhawg

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2017, 10:32:51 pm »

You have to really twist things up to pretend that the national anthem and the flag don't represent soldiers that have fought under and died for that flag.  It also stands for all the rest of the Americans that have come together under the flag.

We don't have one common ethnic or geographical background.  We don't all have the same blood lines or religious creeds.  We have the flag.  We have the national anthem that honors that flag.

People from other countries don't understand why there are so many American flags, and it is for that reason.  We as a country are united not by simple ancestory, but by a common belief that America is great because we are always striving to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.

I see fools only talk about all the bad in this country.  I see ignorance when they only point to the dark corners of our history.  I'm disappointed with the false narrative that CK espoused concerning police brutality.  It is the vogue thing for the intellectually dishonest and the emotionally shallow people to protest the very country that gives them the freedom to trample on the things that so many...most Americans in fact...view as sacred.

There are so many ways that we can speak to each other today to get our point across that we don't need the constant protest.  There was a day when people had no other avenue, other than to walk down some avenue to a city square or a public building in mass.  Simply not the case today.  CK could have bought air time and made a PSA.  He could have addressed it in a post game interview.  He could have called up any number of national radio shows and made his voice heard.  No, he did something that he knew would be offensive.  Actually, I'm not sure if he is smart enough to realize how offensive and stupid he was being, because he surely wasn't  creative enough to use all the other areas that would have been more effective.  Yes, more effective.  His actions and those of many of the other players have only polarized the two sides.  No real change, no real dialogue, just more yelling and mistrust...and loss of revenue for the NFL.

Veritas, I'm not a snowflake because I"m not watching the NFL over this.  I just have better things to do.  Sports for me has always been a place where I could forget about all the craziness of the world, the tragedy and struggles of real life and enjoy people succeeding and winning.  All the other news seems to be bad, sports news was always about people doing their best to represent their team.  The only colors that mattered were the color of the uniform, and we all came together for a couple of hours, forgetting our differences and having our team in common.  Well, now we can't even have that.

So, I read a book, play with my kids, watch American Pickers, do something else with my time that doesn't involve the tantrums of the emotionally immature.

Are there serious problems still in America?  Yes.  Lets talk about them.  Don't disrupt the few things that we have where we can all come together for a while and forget our differences.  We need those times.  We don't always have to be political and biased at every moment.


Great post.
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BigBrandonAllenFan

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2017, 10:32:55 pm »

You have to really twist things up to pretend that the national anthem and the flag don't represent soldiers that have fought under and died for that flag.  It also stands for all the rest of the Americans that have come together under the flag.

We don't have one common ethnic or geographical background.  We don't all have the same blood lines or religious creeds.  We have the flag.  We have the national anthem that honors that flag.

People from other countries don't understand why there are so many American flags, and it is for that reason.  We as a country are united not by simple ancestory, but by a common belief that America is great because we are always striving to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.

I see fools only talk about all the bad in this country.  I see ignorance when they only point to the dark corners of our history.  I'm disappointed with the false narrative that CK espoused concerning police brutality.  It is the vogue thing for the intellectually dishonest and the emotionally shallow people to protest the very country that gives them the freedom to trample on the things that so many...most Americans in fact...view as sacred.

There are so many ways that we can speak to each other today to get our point across that we don't need the constant protest.  There was a day when people had no other avenue, other than to walk down some avenue to a city square or a public building in mass.  Simply not the case today.  CK could have bought air time and made a PSA.  He could have addressed it in a post game interview.  He could have called up any number of national radio shows and made his voice heard.  No, he did something that he knew would be offensive.  Actually, I'm not sure if he is smart enough to realize how offensive and stupid he was being, because he surely wasn't  creative enough to use all the other areas that would have been more effective.  Yes, more effective.  His actions and those of many of the other players have only polarized the two sides.  No real change, no real dialogue, just more yelling and mistrust...and loss of revenue for the NFL.

Veritas, I'm not a snowflake because I"m not watching the NFL over this.  I just have better things to do.  Sports for me has always been a place where I could forget about all the craziness of the world, the tragedy and struggles of real life and enjoy people succeeding and winning.  All the other news seems to be bad, sports news was always about people doing their best to represent their team.  The only colors that mattered were the color of the uniform, and we all came together for a couple of hours, forgetting our differences and having our team in common.  Well, now we can't even have that.

So, I read a book, play with my kids, watch American Pickers, do something else with my time that doesn't involve the tantrums of the emotionally immature.

Are there serious problems still in America?  Yes.  Lets talk about them.  Don't disrupt the few things that we have where we can all come together for a while and forget our differences.  We need those times.  We don't always have to be political and biased at every moment.

That is the best read I've seen on Hogville probably ever. 
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1highhog

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2017, 11:33:15 pm »

While tonight the whole Dallas Cowboys team, coaches, and even Ole Jerry Jones himself took a knee during the anthem, priceless.
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kodiakisland

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2017, 11:51:14 pm »

Negative.

And I think people boycotting the NFL because of this are snowflakes.

I'd say they are opposite of snowflakes.
Personally, I'm boycotting if you want to call it that because the NFL hasn't been entertaining for a couple of years. Also, i dont watch sports for politics, even if i agree with it.
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bennyl08

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2017, 02:30:25 am »

I'd say they are opposite of snowflakes.
Personally, I'm boycotting if you want to call it that because the NFL hasn't been entertaining for a couple of years. Also, i dont watch sports for politics, even if i agree with it.

I get it. Snowflakes are all unique and individual.

People who thinks that everybody has to assign the same significance to the flag and anthem are group thinkers. So, while they do melt down over insignificant things, abiding by groupthink means they can't be a snowflake.
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ImHogginIt

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2017, 02:58:42 am »

While tonight the whole Dallas Cowboys team, coaches, and even Ole Jerry Jones himself took a knee during the anthem, priceless.

No they did not.  They took a knee before it was played. They stood and locked arms while it was played
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bennyl08

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2017, 03:15:13 am »

You have to really twist things up to pretend that the national anthem and the flag don't represent soldiers that have fought under and died for that flag.  It also stands for all the rest of the Americans that have come together under the flag.

We don't have one common ethnic or geographical background.  We don't all have the same blood lines or religious creeds.  We have the flag.  We have the national anthem that honors that flag.

The anthem is just a song and the flag is just a piece of fabric. You change either of those and nothing about our country changes. Those soldiers that fought and died didn't do so to support a country with mandatory patriotism. They frequently fought against countries that espouse such views.

Quote
People from other countries don't understand why there are so many American flags, and it is for that reason.  We as a country are united not by simple ancestory, but by a common belief that America is great because we are always striving to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.

You go to Germany, Norway, NZ, Australia, Mexico, and probably most other countries and you'll see just as many flags as we see here in the USA. It's just easier to kind of ignore in your own country because you are so used to seeing your own flag. However, having a bunch of flags is not unique for our country. Maybe you don't see that in Africa, the middle East, east Asia or S. America. Never been anywhere around there. But in European/Commonwealth countries, we are no more flag heavy than they are.

Quote
I see fools only talk about all the bad in this country.  I see ignorance when they only point to the dark corners of our history.  I'm disappointed with the false narrative that CK espoused concerning police brutality.  It is the vogue thing for the intellectually dishonest and the emotionally shallow people to protest the very country that gives them the freedom to trample on the things that so many...most Americans in fact...view as sacred.

What do Trump voters have to do with this topic?

Also, I do find this type of mindset funny. I mean, if you hear N. Koreans talk about how they have the best country in the world and no other country is as great as North Korea, what is your response? Probably some pity for how they've been brainwashed and fed propaganda. However, suddenly, anybody who doesn't think America is the greatest country in the world or thinks that we have plenty to improve on are brainwashed by liberal schools.

The parent that disciplines their child and wants them to be better shows more love than the parent who ignores any problems with their kids and thinks that their children are perfect. We do have issues with our judicial system. We also have issues in our communities. Those players who are taking knees have spent more hours personally trying to improve their communities, reduce crime, keep kids in schools, encourage two parent households and so on that all of hogville has combined. However, they can't personally fix the problems we have in our judicial system. All they can do is communicate that a problem exists and encourage people the population to want to fix them.

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There are so many ways that we can speak to each other today to get our point across that we don't need the constant protest.  There was a day when people had no other avenue, other than to walk down some avenue to a city square or a public building in mass.  Simply not the case today.  CK could have bought air time and made a PSA.  He could have addressed it in a post game interview.  He could have called up any number of national radio shows and made his voice heard.  No, he did something that he knew would be offensive.  Actually, I'm not sure if he is smart enough to realize how offensive and stupid he was being, because he surely wasn't  creative enough to use all the other areas that would have been more effective.  Yes, more effective.  His actions and those of many of the other players have only polarized the two sides.  No real change, no real dialogue, just more yelling and mistrust...and loss of revenue for the NFL.

Absolutely not true. This isn't a problem that is new. People have tried communicating this problem for over a generation now. Air time is easily ignored. Post game interviews aren't watched by most. He's done radio shows iirc. This at least has people talking about it.

There has been plenty of real dialogue sparked by this. Me and my dad have had lengthy conversations over this, sparked by the kneeling. Plenty of news pieces on the issues sparked by the protests. People who are offended by it are curious to find out why somebody is protesting in a way that offends them. No dialogue, yelling, and mistrust sounds like they are more you problems and not what the rest of society is doing.

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Veritas, I'm not a snowflake because I"m not watching the NFL over this.  I just have better things to do.  Sports for me has always been a place where I could forget about all the craziness of the world, the tragedy and struggles of real life and enjoy people succeeding and winning.  All the other news seems to be bad, sports news was always about people doing their best to represent their team.  The only colors that mattered were the color of the uniform, and we all came together for a couple of hours, forgetting our differences and having our team in common.  Well, now we can't even have that.

You get the benefit of being able to escape and ignore the problems. Not everybody else is so lucky. That's part of the point of doing protests like this. A majority of the country doesn't have this problem and has the luxury of ignoring it. They tried voicing their concerns over the problem but nobody listened. They avoided the outlets people were using to voice their concerns and ignoring their voices. Now, with silent protest in a very visible spot, it's harder to avoid and ignore.

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So, I read a book, play with my kids, watch American Pickers, do something else with my time that doesn't involve the tantrums of the emotionally immature.

Are there serious problems still in America?  Yes.  Lets talk about them.  Don't disrupt the few things that we have where we can all come together for a while and forget our differences.  We need those times.  We don't always have to be political and biased at every moment.

There's nothing political about it. It's an issue that should be bipartisan as there is a ton of room for common ground. I do agree that we all want to be able to sit back and relax. However, eventually, a problem needs to be taken care of. It's like having a significant other who had a flat tire. First they text you, but you ignore the text because the game is on. Then they email you, fb message you, and you ignore it. They try calling you and you silence your phone. Finally, they just walk back the 5 miles and start yelling at you for not helping and your response complaining that they should try a quieter and less aggressive way to communicate and asking if you can wait until the game is over...
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2017, 06:59:53 am »

You have to really twist things up to pretend that the national anthem and the flag don't represent soldiers that have fought under and died for that flag.  It also stands for all the rest of the Americans that have come together under the flag.

We don't have one common ethnic or geographical background.  We don't all have the same blood lines or religious creeds.  We have the flag.  We have the national anthem that honors that flag.

People from other countries don't understand why there are so many American flags, and it is for that reason.  We as a country are united not by simple ancestory, but by a common belief that America is great because we are always striving to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.

I see fools only talk about all the bad in this country.  I see ignorance when they only point to the dark corners of our history.  I'm disappointed with the false narrative that CK espoused concerning police brutality.  It is the vogue thing for the intellectually dishonest and the emotionally shallow people to protest the very country that gives them the freedom to trample on the things that so many...most Americans in fact...view as sacred.

There are so many ways that we can speak to each other today to get our point across that we don't need the constant protest.  There was a day when people had no other avenue, other than to walk down some avenue to a city square or a public building in mass.  Simply not the case today.  CK could have bought air time and made a PSA.  He could have addressed it in a post game interview.  He could have called up any number of national radio shows and made his voice heard.  No, he did something that he knew would be offensive.  Actually, I'm not sure if he is smart enough to realize how offensive and stupid he was being, because he surely wasn't  creative enough to use all the other areas that would have been more effective.  Yes, more effective.  His actions and those of many of the other players have only polarized the two sides.  No real change, no real dialogue, just more yelling and mistrust...and loss of revenue for the NFL.

Veritas, I'm not a snowflake because I"m not watching the NFL over this.  I just have better things to do.  Sports for me has always been a place where I could forget about all the craziness of the world, the tragedy and struggles of real life and enjoy people succeeding and winning.  All the other news seems to be bad, sports news was always about people doing their best to represent their team.  The only colors that mattered were the color of the uniform, and we all came together for a couple of hours, forgetting our differences and having our team in common.  Well, now we can't even have that.

So, I read a book, play with my kids, watch American Pickers, do something else with my time that doesn't involve the tantrums of the emotionally immature.

Are there serious problems still in America?  Yes.  Lets talk about them.  Don't disrupt the few things that we have where we can all come together for a while and forget our differences.  We need those times.  We don't always have to be political and biased at every moment.



Well stated.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2017, 07:01:04 am »

While tonight the whole Dallas Cowboys team, coaches, and even Ole Jerry Jones himself took a knee during the anthem, priceless.

Not so well stated. This is where stuff on the internet gets out of control. Someone posts something not true and gullible people run with it.

Shame on you.
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Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2017, 09:56:19 am »

The anthem is just a song and the flag is just a piece of fabric. You change either of those and nothing about our country changes. Those soldiers that fought and died didn't do so to support a country with mandatory patriotism. They frequently fought against countries that espouse such views.

You go to Germany, Norway, NZ, Australia, Mexico, and probably most other countries and you'll see just as many flags as we see here in the USA. It's just easier to kind of ignore in your own country because you are so used to seeing your own flag. However, having a bunch of flags is not unique for our country. Maybe you don't see that in Africa, the middle East, east Asia or S. America. Never been anywhere around there. But in European/Commonwealth countries, we are no more flag heavy than they are.

What do Trump voters have to do with this topic?

Also, I do find this type of mindset funny. I mean, if you hear N. Koreans talk about how they have the best country in the world and no other country is as great as North Korea, what is your response? Probably some pity for how they've been brainwashed and fed propaganda. However, suddenly, anybody who doesn't think America is the greatest country in the world or thinks that we have plenty to improve on are brainwashed by liberal schools.

The parent that disciplines their child and wants them to be better shows more love than the parent who ignores any problems with their kids and thinks that their children are perfect. We do have issues with our judicial system. We also have issues in our communities. Those players who are taking knees have spent more hours personally trying to improve their communities, reduce crime, keep kids in schools, encourage two parent households and so on that all of hogville has combined. However, they can't personally fix the problems we have in our judicial system. All they can do is communicate that a problem exists and encourage people the population to want to fix them.

Absolutely not true. This isn't a problem that is new. People have tried communicating this problem for over a generation now. Air time is easily ignored. Post game interviews aren't watched by most. He's done radio shows iirc. This at least has people talking about it.

There has been plenty of real dialogue sparked by this. Me and my dad have had lengthy conversations over this, sparked by the kneeling. Plenty of news pieces on the issues sparked by the protests. People who are offended by it are curious to find out why somebody is protesting in a way that offends them. No dialogue, yelling, and mistrust sounds like they are more you problems and not what the rest of society is doing.

You get the benefit of being able to escape and ignore the problems. Not everybody else is so lucky. That's part of the point of doing protests like this. A majority of the country doesn't have this problem and has the luxury of ignoring it. They tried voicing their concerns over the problem but nobody listened. They avoided the outlets people were using to voice their concerns and ignoring their voices. Now, with silent protest in a very visible spot, it's harder to avoid and ignore.

There's nothing political about it. It's an issue that should be bipartisan as there is a ton of room for common ground. I do agree that we all want to be able to sit back and relax. However, eventually, a problem needs to be taken care of. It's like having a significant other who had a flat tire. First they text you, but you ignore the text because the game is on. Then they email you, fb message you, and you ignore it. They try calling you and you silence your phone. Finally, they just walk back the 5 miles and start yelling at you for not helping and your response complaining that they should try a quieter and less aggressive way to communicate and asking if you can wait until the game is over...

Benny...I'm sorry that your opinion is so significantly wrong.

That is okay though, you have a right to it.  My opinion of your opinion may be wrong...but it isn't.

Just a couple of things.

The flag is not just a piece of fabric.  Symbols still mean things.

When I mentioned the comment about the flag being everywhere, and people from other countries noticing that...that wasn't just an opinion.  That is what was said in some articles I've read about what other people say about our country.  Now, you may consider that antidotal, but that is something said by people from Europe in that article.

In my line of work I've had the opportunity to talk to people about their relationships.  Many marriages, parents and children, siblings and just friends.  More than a few enemies that I've had to go to and address their differences.  Personally, I was expecting you or veritas to bring up the "we don't have that luxury of forgetting or escaping..." because while you both attempt to show yourself "learned and educated" but lack serious understanding and application.  My point is this.  Saying someone doesn't have the luxury of ignoring a problem is a nice sound bite but misses the bigger point.  If you are working with conflict management in any relationship there are times where you MUST have moments of focus on things that you agree with.  We openly talk about things that need to be worked on and changed, but some times we just do something where we all get along and have fun.

Example.  I was working with this one couple and asked them to focus on all the progress they had made, and to find things that they had in common instead of constantly yelling and fighting.  It was amazing the change that brought.  I asked another couple to find a time to do something together and not fight, not argue, not disagree, just put away their differences for a while and escape their troubles for just a short while.  Again, the results were amazing.

You see, it always helps when adults talk things out at appropriate times rather than grandstanding and yelling at all times.  Times when we can all come together under one banner, or for a couple of hours each week to forget our differences and enjoy each other's company is a basic element in repairing and/or maintaining any relationship.

Benny, I think you are an intellectual person and you have fine research skills.  Your conclusions and your deductive reasoning aren't always on point, but that will come with life experience.  Now, that is just my opinion and I could be wrong.

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1highhog

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2017, 09:58:54 am »

Not so well stated. This is where stuff on the internet gets out of control. Someone posts something not true and gullible people run with it.

Shame on you.

My mistake, read it online somewhere else and didn't see it myself and I should have checked before posting.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2017, 11:09:26 am »

Vote with your pocketbook and remote.
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bennyl08

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2017, 11:36:18 am »

Benny...I'm sorry that your opinion is so significantly wrong.

That is okay though, you have a right to it.  My opinion of your opinion may be wrong...but it isn't.

Just a couple of things.

The flag is not just a piece of fabric.  Symbols still mean things.

When I mentioned the comment about the flag being everywhere, and people from other countries noticing that...that wasn't just an opinion.  That is what was said in some articles I've read about what other people say about our country.  Now, you may consider that antidotal, but that is something said by people from Europe in that article.

In my line of work I've had the opportunity to talk to people about their relationships.  Many marriages, parents and children, siblings and just friends.  More than a few enemies that I've had to go to and address their differences.  Personally, I was expecting you or veritas to bring up the "we don't have that luxury of forgetting or escaping..." because while you both attempt to show yourself "learned and educated" but lack serious understanding and application.  My point is this.  Saying someone doesn't have the luxury of ignoring a problem is a nice sound bite but misses the bigger point.  If you are working with conflict management in any relationship there are times where you MUST have moments of focus on things that you agree with.  We openly talk about things that need to be worked on and changed, but some times we just do something where we all get along and have fun.

Example.  I was working with this one couple and asked them to focus on all the progress they had made, and to find things that they had in common instead of constantly yelling and fighting.  It was amazing the change that brought.  I asked another couple to find a time to do something together and not fight, not argue, not disagree, just put away their differences for a while and escape their troubles for just a short while.  Again, the results were amazing.

You see, it always helps when adults talk things out at appropriate times rather than grandstanding and yelling at all times.  Times when we can all come together under one banner, or for a couple of hours each week to forget our differences and enjoy each other's company is a basic element in repairing and/or maintaining any relationship.

Benny, I think you are an intellectual person and you have fine research skills.  Your conclusions and your deductive reasoning aren't always on point, but that will come with life experience.  Now, that is just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Can't tell if you are trying to be playful and fun with the first part of this post or if you are simply an extremely arrogant person. I'll assume the first since later in the post you do actually admit that you could be wrong.

Symbols do mean things, but that meaning varies from person to person. How many people complaining about the disrespect of the american flag do a complete 180 when it comes to the confederate flag? Suddenly, the narrative switches from symbols mean things to symbols can mean whatever you want them to mean. Now me, I try and stay consistent. If somebody wants to fly the confederate flag because to them it represents southern pride, I'd want them to understand that to most people and for almost all of it's history, that is not what the flag has stood for. If they want to ignore how most others view that symbol and continue with their interpretation, I'm not going to assume they are a racist. Most adults in the US view the flag as representing soldiers. While most people 35 and under view the flag differently, myself included, I respect that others have different views. I ask that others don't project their views of the flag onto me same way I don't project my views of the confederate flag onto them.

In all of your age and wisdom, what happens when the couple NEVER works on their problems. Or when one member of the couple keeps bringing up that the other never helps out around the house and the other member ignores the complaints week after week, month after month, year after year?

I absolutely agree that when you are working on things and such, you need to take a break. Doing so increases your ability to work on things. You can't be full go, 100% of the time. You are completely correct on that. However, we haven't been full go. We got off the couch and stopped drinking beer to get rid of slavery 150 some odd years ago, then went back to the couch and ignored the racism for another generation or two. Then we got up off the couch for Jim Crow laws and ending segregation, and we've just been sitting on the couch again for the past generation.
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Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2017, 01:28:03 pm »

Can't tell if you are trying to be playful and fun with the first part of this post or if you are simply an extremely arrogant person. I'll assume the first since later in the post you do actually admit that you could be wrong.

Symbols do mean things, but that meaning varies from person to person. How many people complaining about the disrespect of the american flag do a complete 180 when it comes to the confederate flag? Suddenly, the narrative switches from symbols mean things to symbols can mean whatever you want them to mean. Now me, I try and stay consistent. If somebody wants to fly the confederate flag because to them it represents southern pride, I'd want them to understand that to most people and for almost all of it's history, that is not what the flag has stood for. If they want to ignore how most others view that symbol and continue with their interpretation, I'm not going to assume they are a racist. Most adults in the US view the flag as representing soldiers. While most people 35 and under view the flag differently, myself included, I respect that others have different views. I ask that others don't project their views of the flag onto me same way I don't project my views of the confederate flag onto them.

In all of your age and wisdom, what happens when the couple NEVER works on their problems. Or when one member of the couple keeps bringing up that the other never helps out around the house and the other member ignores the complaints week after week, month after month, year after year?

I absolutely agree that when you are working on things and such, you need to take a break. Doing so increases your ability to work on things. You can't be full go, 100% of the time. You are completely correct on that. However, we haven't been full go. We got off the couch and stopped drinking beer to get rid of slavery 150 some odd years ago, then went back to the couch and ignored the racism for another generation or two. Then we got up off the couch for Jim Crow laws and ending segregation, and we've just been sitting on the couch again for the past generation.

I was just playing around in the first part of my post.  I meant that I think your opinion is wrong, but I was joking about my opinion being right.  Again, opinions are what they are.

I personally don't feel like we have been sitting on the couch doing nothing.  Race relations have been much better in my generation than they are currently.  Why is that?  We began to focus on our differences again rather than on the things that bring us together.

Are there still issues?  You bet.  We need to talk about those.  Have the riots and the protest helped race relations or damaged them?  That is an honest question.  Has disrespecting each other, disrespecting national symbols, disrespecting property helped or hurt the cohesiveness of this country?  Are we moving forward or backward in race relations right now?  You can't JUST blame our current president for this, it started under our last one. 

There are those that profit from fear and keeping America divided.  Both political parties want to keep us separated.  News has to continue to sell sensationalism. 

America's race relations are still better than most of the worlds.  We just have more races that we are trying to integrate.

Central and South America are extremely racist.
African countries are fighting and killing each other in civil wars based on ethnic backgrounds.
Europe has constantly been at war with itself over genocide and ethnic cleansing as late as the 90's.  That severe racism still exist there today, much more than here.

Is there another country that has gone to war with itself, willing to have massive casualties and possibly  cripple its own economy to liberate an enslaved minority in its own borders?  America did that.  We saw that sin and the inhumanity of slavery and were willing to die to liberate an entire people group that did not have the ability to do it themselves nor could they repay the sacrifice made for that liberation.

America is a great country.

America isn't great because we won our liberty from England in a war.

America is great because we consolidated our people through dialogue and compromise in forming this country.

Whenever one side or the other grandstands and tries to shout down the other side we have gridlock.

When we continue to push a false narrative to keep people scared, then we are the problem. 

Check out this video.  It might help to understand the false narrative that is out there.  America isn't as bad as you are trying to make it out to be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPXTWJhnYM

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Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2017, 01:50:43 pm »

Oh, and here are some links to back up what I said in an earlier post about flags and patriotism.  Interesting to see what outsiders think about us, when we are so self loathing at the moment.

Overly friendly, tip too much, and proud of our country.  We are a terrible bunch huh?  From the liberal huff post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/25/odd-things-about-america_n_4603713.html


Read 8 and 13 on this one:
http://www.businessinsider.com/things-americans-do-that-seem-just-bizarre-to-the-outside-world-2013-5


Here is a really interesting one from another liberal group.

http://www.liberalamerica.org/2014/05/12/93-weird-things-about-americans/


All I'm saying is these protest are built up on false narratives that damage more than they help.  America is great...and we got that way from conversations, not protest and shouting each other down.
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Rzbakfromwaybak

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2017, 01:55:56 pm »

You have to really twist things up to pretend that the national anthem and the flag don't represent soldiers that have fought under and died for that flag.  It also stands for all the rest of the Americans that have come together under the flag.

We don't have one common ethnic or geographical background.  We don't all have the same blood lines or religious creeds.  We have the flag.  We have the national anthem that honors that flag.

People from other countries don't understand why there are so many American flags, and it is for that reason.  We as a country are united not by simple ancestory, but by a common belief that America is great because we are always striving to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.

I see fools only talk about all the bad in this country.  I see ignorance when they only point to the dark corners of our history.  I'm disappointed with the false narrative that CK espoused concerning police brutality.  It is the vogue thing for the intellectually dishonest and the emotionally shallow people to protest the very country that gives them the freedom to trample on the things that so many...most Americans in fact...view as sacred.

There are so many ways that we can speak to each other today to get our point across that we don't need the constant protest.  There was a day when people had no other avenue, other than to walk down some avenue to a city square or a public building in mass.  Simply not the case today.  CK could have bought air time and made a PSA.  He could have addressed it in a post game interview.  He could have called up any number of national radio shows and made his voice heard.  No, he did something that he knew would be offensive.  Actually, I'm not sure if he is smart enough to realize how offensive and stupid he was being, because he surely wasn't  creative enough to use all the other areas that would have been more effective.  Yes, more effective.  His actions and those of many of the other players have only polarized the two sides.  No real change, no real dialogue, just more yelling and mistrust...and loss of revenue for the NFL.

Veritas, I'm not a snowflake because I"m not watching the NFL over this.  I just have better things to do.  Sports for me has always been a place where I could forget about all the craziness of the world, the tragedy and struggles of real life and enjoy people succeeding and winning.  All the other news seems to be bad, sports news was always about people doing their best to represent their team.  The only colors that mattered were the color of the uniform, and we all came together for a couple of hours, forgetting our differences and having our team in common.  Well, now we can't even have that.

So, I read a book, play with my kids, watch American Pickers, do something else with my time that doesn't involve the tantrums of the emotionally immature.

Are there serious problems still in America?  Yes.  Lets talk about them.  Don't disrupt the few things that we have where we can all come together for a while and forget our differences.  We need those times.  We don't always have to be political and biased at every moment.


Agree, good post.  Miss your pre-season practice reports.
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pigz

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2017, 02:19:10 pm »

No

What if they knelt but still placed their hands over their heart?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html

This is an article written by Eric Reid explaining his reasoning to join CK.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: POLL: Are You Boycotting the NFL?
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2017, 06:03:26 pm »

My mistake, read it online somewhere else and didn't see it myself and I should have checked before posting.

No worries. Thanks for owning up.
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