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Author Topic: The root cause to our problem  (Read 1449 times)

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East TN HAWG

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The root cause to our problem
« on: September 19, 2017, 11:31:32 am »

Nearly every team in the SEC thinks the answer to their problem is fire the coach every 5-6 years.  That will fix it.  In actuality, it rarely does.  Most SEC programs can not hire that one coach that can sustain success.  TN went from Fulmer, Kiffin, Dooley to Jones.  What kind of success have they achieved?  USC went from Holtz, Spurrier to Muschamp?  What kind of success have they achieved? 

Maybe CBB is not the right coach, and if so fire him.  I'm not arguing that he is or is not part of the solution.  My point is that changing the coach is not enough.  It is every team's solution, and it rarely works for long term sustainablitiy.  To keep doing the same thing as everyone else and expect better results is insanity.  In order to fix the problem, we need to think outside the box.   

AR does not have the population (numbers) to support a blueblood program for sustained success like TX, Fla, CA, GA does.  We can't rely on the core recruiting base to support the total numbers to produce enough elite athletes for sustain success.  We will always need to go out state for a portion of each recruiting class. 

We need to concentrate on High School athletics, and improve the overall quality.  To do that, we need the various HC of universities in the state to establish a commission.  They could explore options such as AAU summer basketball leagues.  Why can't we establish something similar in football.   The university coaches could establish more coaching clinics for young youth coaches, so they providing quality fundamentals to very young athletes.  There are several things we could do.  Someone with influence needs to lead the effort.   

Until we go outside the box, we are going to have the same results.

       
 

« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 12:51:59 pm by East TN HAWG »
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jst01

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 11:36:33 am »

Noooooo..... this has been discussed in other threads plenty.  Much too difficult and in the end it would probably result in the better talented players just leaving to go play at Bama or Ohio St. as you've seen with stud hoops players from AR.
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East TN HAWG

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 11:39:37 am »

Noooooo..... this has been discussed in other threads plenty.  Much too difficult and in the end it would probably result in the better talented players just leaving to go play at Bama or Ohio St. as you've seen with stud hoops players from AR.

So you think it will change if we keep doing the same thing over and over like everyone else?  A few athletes leave the state, but the majority stay home. 
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jst01

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 11:47:44 am »

So you think it will change if we keep doing the same thing over and over like everyone else?  A few athletes leave the state, but the majority stay home. 

No, it wont change.  If we stay in the SEC, we will win approximately 7-8 games a year and every once in a while we might win 10 or 11.  I have accepted that long ago.
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bphi11ips

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 11:48:50 am »

Fine post. 

Your idea is a good one.  One thing is for certain - improving Arkansas high school football will improve the Arkansas Razorbacks football team.  More importantly, an improvement in high school football will indicate  that more important issues currently robbing the state of a chance to compete in areas much more important than football, are being addressed. 
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snoblind

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 11:59:55 am »

Do some research.  Granted I'm in Fort Smith and the NW AR area so I'm speaking about this area.  Every high school has 7 on 7 program all summer, spring ball in May, many schools get together for camps/scrimmages and have artificial turf fields, indoor practice facilities, etc.  Football is already a year round sport here.
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East TN HAWG

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 12:25:50 pm »

Do some research.  Granted I'm in Fort Smith and the NW AR area so I'm speaking about this area.  Every high school has 7 on 7 program all summer, spring ball in May, many schools get together for camps/scrimmages and have artificial turf fields, indoor practice facilities, etc.  Football is already a year round sport here.

I know they have 7 on 7 for tournaments etc.  Mitch Mustain's rise was a result of 7-on-7.  I believe NWA is different from central AR.  NWA has more resources, and I believe central AR has better athletes overall.  Maybe the answer is not within each school district but club ball?   

My point is to do something different from every other program/ state.  Think outside the box for the solution, not what everyone else does. 
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GunnerHawg70

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 12:28:58 pm »

Great post and can understand the pro's and con's to this.  if you all can remember from the mid 80's through early 2000's Arkansas HS football was a hot bed for stud athlete's on a huge scale.  All programs UofA, A-St, all the AIC schools were doing pretty good with talent from Arkansas.  I know I started seeing a decline in talent once HS schools started combining campuses and which pushed smaller schools up to larger schools leveling the playing field.

Well this move actually spread out talent that normally flourished in 1-3A football are now competing in 4-5A and getting buried behind bigger players (not necessarily better players).  I remember a time where 4-5A All-State players were highly recruited on a national level.  Now you would be hard pressed to find 3-4 players on the All-State team have that kind of recruiting process and fanfare. 

Bottom Line: Coaching changes are necessary when they are not producing a product that competes on level of their competitors.  Coaching changes will also stymie recruiting process because kids these days want to go where the guaranteed playing time, national exposure and quickest way to the riches of the NFL.  Hogs have never consistently been that program no matter what coach was in the driver seat.

No one wants to accept mediocrity and I think I can say for all Hog fans "we want to be relevant in championship talk each and every year" not just playing the spoiler of another teams chances of glory.

Not sure how to fix it but it's not completely the coaches, in-state talent needs to start trending upward and I believe that will improve Razorback athletics ten fold!!!
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elksnort

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 12:37:58 pm »

There is enough talent on this ball club NOW to play better than they did.

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theFlyingHog

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 12:44:29 pm »

There is enough talent on this ball club NOW to play better than they did.
What we have here is a good post. This would be a very good squad with proper motivation, utilization and play calling. BB is a good person but he is not a good head coach. I have ripped on people for saying that as recently as last season and for that I apologize.
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East TN HAWG

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 12:50:09 pm »

There is enough talent on this ball club NOW to play better than they did.


I think if you asked Scout, 247 or any other neutral talent evaluator, they would say that our overall talent matches our record. 
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DeltaBoy

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 12:54:26 pm »

Poor Recruiting is the issue too many Oline whiffs.
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RazorWest

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 12:59:56 pm »

Nearly every team in the SEC thinks the answer to their problem is fire the coach every 5-6 years.  That will fix it.  In actuality, it rarely does.  Most SEC programs can not hire that one coach that can sustain success.  TN went from Fulmer, Kiffin, Dooley to Jones.  What kind of success have they achieved?  USC went from Holtz, Spurrier to Muschamp?  What kind of success have they achieved? 

Maybe CBB is not the right coach, and if so fire him.  I'm not arguing that he is or is not part of the solution.  My point is that changing the coach is not enough.  It is every team's solution, and it rarely works for long term sustainablitiy.  To keep doing the same thing as everyone else and expect better results is insanity.  In order to fix the problem, we need to think outside the box.   

AR does not have the population (numbers) to support a blueblood program for sustained success like TX, Fla, CA, GA does.  We can't rely on the core recruiting base to support the total numbers to produce enough elite athletes for sustain success.  We will always need to go out state for a portion of each recruiting class. 

We need to concentrate on High School athletics, and improve the overall quality.  To do that, we need the various HC of universities in the state to establish a commission.  They could explore options such as AAU summer basketball leagues.  Why can't we establish something similar in football.   The university coaches could establish more coaching clinics for young youth coaches, so they providing quality fundamentals to very young athletes.  There are several things we could do.  Someone with influence needs to lead the effort.   

Until we go outside the box, we are going to have the same results.

     

USC did not fire Holtz or Spurrier.  They had lots of success with both.  TN did not fire Kiffin, he left for USC forcing a crappy hire in Dooley.     
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a0ashle

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 01:34:04 pm »

To your comments about firing coaches, we have seen the carousel in SEC get worse and worse every year. There is literally no one who can live up to expectations in SEC who isn't named Saban. The closest is...Dan Mullen, who has had an four 8+ win seasons (so far 8 full season) in 9 years and is 30-35 conference record.

We really need to take a step back and reevaluate what success is in today's SEC environment, and forget about how it used to be.

All this to say, that it is extremely rare that changing coaches fixes things, there have been dozens of hot coaches come to the SEC and get ousted. If we make a coaching move, so be it, but we can't expect the grass to be greener history is telling us otherwise.

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ShadowHawg

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2017, 01:38:56 pm »

South Carolina had it's most successful run ever under Spurrier.
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DLUXHOG

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2017, 01:46:56 pm »

Nearly every team in the SEC thinks the answer to their problem is fire the coach every 5-6 years.  That will fix it.  In actuality, it rarely does.  Most SEC programs can not hire that one coach that can sustain success.  TN went from Fulmer, Kiffin, Dooley to Jones.  What kind of success have they achieved?  USC went from Holtz, Spurrier to Muschamp?  What kind of success have they achieved? 

Maybe CBB is not the right coach, and if so fire him.  I'm not arguing that he is or is not part of the solution.  My point is that changing the coach is not enough.  It is every team's solution, and it rarely works for long term sustainablitiy.  To keep doing the same thing as everyone else and expect better results is insanity.  In order to fix the problem, we need to think outside the box.   

AR does not have the population (numbers) to support a blueblood program for sustained success like TX, Fla, CA, GA does.  We can't rely on the core recruiting base to support the total numbers to produce enough elite athletes for sustain success.  We will always need to go out state for a portion of each recruiting class. 

We need to concentrate on High School athletics, and improve the overall quality.  To do that, we need the various HC of universities in the state to establish a commission.  They could explore options such as AAU summer basketball leagues.  Why can't we establish something similar in football.   The university coaches could establish more coaching clinics for young youth coaches, so they providing quality fundamentals to very young athletes.  There are several things we could do.  Someone with influence needs to lead the effort.   

Until we go outside the box, we are going to have the same results.

       
 



Arkansas population: 3,000,942
Alabama population: 4,884,115 (two top tier university programs)
Louisiana population: 4,714,192
Mississippi population: 2,990,113 (two top tier university programs)
DFW MSA: 7,500,000


Alabama & Mississippi say "hello"....
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hogsanity

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2017, 01:55:45 pm »

Arkansas population: 3,000,942
Alabama population: 4,884,115 (two top tier university programs)
Louisiana population: 4,714,192
Mississippi population: 2,990,113 (two top tier university programs)
DFW MSA: 7,500,000


Alabama & Mississippi say "hello"....

One word for you - DEMOGRAPHICS. Mississippi produces alot more p5 players than does AR. Someone posted a chart a few years ago and it was something like 4.5 times as many. Same for Bama.
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East TN HAWG

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2017, 01:58:14 pm »

Poor Recruiting is the issue too many Oline whiffs.
USC did not fire Holtz or Spurrier.  They had lots of success with both.  TN did not fire Kiffin, he left for USC forcing a crappy hire in Dooley.     
Your correct.  Thank you.  I should have  listed Texas AM, MS, Auburn, KY, etc and it would show the pattern. 
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razorbackfaninar

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2017, 02:01:47 pm »

Arkansas population: 3,000,942
Alabama population: 4,884,115 (two top tier university programs)
Louisiana population: 4,714,192
Mississippi population: 2,990,113 (two top tier university programs)
DFW MSA: 7,500,000


Alabama & Mississippi say "hello"....

I think maybe what he meant was that we don't produce enough highly rated athletes. 
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jst01

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2017, 02:02:47 pm »

If you really want to dig into the root cause of why AR cant support the Hogs with top tier talent, you can probably start with demographics.

Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama all have some very poor areas that most likely have struggling High Schools and infrastructure, but all three states have a much higher percentage of African American residents/students.  Did a quick Census.gov search and at 7/1/16, AR population was approx. 2.9million with 15% African Americans (around 478,000). 

Miss: 2.9milion population, 38% African American (1,135,000)
Bama: 4.8million population, 27% African American (1,300,000)

You see where this is going.  Now go look at the 2018 College Football recruiting player rankings on any site you choose. I looked at 24/7 and as I scrolled through the top 50 players, there were 5 white players and 45 black players. 
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GunnerHawg70

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2017, 02:05:11 pm »

One word for you - DEMOGRAPHICS. Mississippi produces alot more p5 players than does AR. Someone posted a chart a few years ago and it was something like 4.5 times as many. Same for Bama.

this is something I can believe without seeing the chart.  Arkansas for many years produced enough "football" talent to stay competitive with homegrown talent.  Currently the (and not taking anything away from) talent level is not P5 but more geared to the Arkansas Intercollegiate level.  I don't know what caused the drop or decline in this but look at the stats from say 1985-2005 how many kids were offered or recruited to P5 schools vice 2008-current. 

There is a noticeable decline...   
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tampahog

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2017, 02:08:32 pm »

Arkansas population: 3,000,942
Alabama population: 4,884,115 (two top tier university programs)
Louisiana population: 4,714,192
Mississippi population: 2,990,113 (two top tier university programs)
DFW MSA: 7,500,000


Alabama & Mississippi say "hello"....
we will not greatly increase our competitiveness until 1) we hire the right coach who can effectively attract more and higher quality out of state athletes, and 2) that same coach needs to bring a philosophy that can "out innovate" teams of similar or slightly higher talent.  Yes, there will be occasional years when Arkansas produces enough talent in skill positions to give us a couple of strong years but not enough to build a foundation of sustained excellence and not enough to survive the war of attrition in the sec.  We will rarely out talent anyone in the SEC so we have to get the right players developed in the right way in the right system at the right positions who are exceptionally coached.  The honest truth is that the genetics are different in the gulf and east coast states that make up the core of SEC recruiting and we don't get very many of those.  I don't think more time on the high school football field moves the needle on this materially.  Most of the other states in our conference produce more and higher quality sec players per capital than Arkansas.  The one thing Central Arkansas and delta schools can do better is find better ways to motivate more athletes to actually play football so that a few additional SEC recruits actually emerge from our small recruiting base. I wonder how many sec quality athletes actually don't even play football ?
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oldhog63

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2017, 02:10:50 pm »

Poor Recruiting is the issue too many Oline whiffs.
I think the Oline problems are related more to poor development than poor recruiting.
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redneckfriend

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2017, 02:11:13 pm »

Nearly every team in the SEC thinks the answer to their problem is fire the coach every 5-6 years.  That will fix it.  In actuality, it rarely does.  Most SEC programs can not hire that one coach that can sustain success.  TN went from Fulmer, Kiffin, Dooley to Jones.  What kind of success have they achieved?  USC went from Holtz, Spurrier to Muschamp?  What kind of success have they achieved? 

Maybe CBB is not the right coach, and if so fire him.  I'm not arguing that he is or is not part of the solution.  My point is that changing the coach is not enough.  It is every team's solution, and it rarely works for long term sustainablitiy.  To keep doing the same thing as everyone else and expect better results is insanity.  In order to fix the problem, we need to think outside the box.   

AR does not have the population (numbers) to support a blueblood program for sustained success like TX, Fla, CA, GA does.  We can't rely on the core recruiting base to support the total numbers to produce enough elite athletes for sustain success.  We will always need to go out state for a portion of each recruiting class. 

We need to concentrate on High School athletics, and improve the overall quality.  To do that, we need the various HC of universities in the state to establish a commission.  They could explore options such as AAU summer basketball leagues.  Why can't we establish something similar in football.   The university coaches could establish more coaching clinics for young youth coaches, so they providing quality fundamentals to very young athletes.  There are several things we could do.  Someone with influence needs to lead the effort.   

Until we go outside the box, we are going to have the same results.

       
 



Yes, this has been stated over and over. There is an enduring belief that some new coach (and I agree that Bielema has pretty well proven he is not that coach) will change everything. That belief received some support with Petrino but there are not many like him and the price is usually high (and I don't mean in dollars). For 99% of coaches the path to winning goes through recruiting. Unless a coach is hired who can bring top flight recruits to Arkansas it is unlikely fans will get the kind of success in football they want. And, as with Petrino and the rare coach who can rise above his talent, the price for a coach who recruits well to a program like Arkansas is often high- just ask Mississippi. The best solution for Arkansas is to leave the SEC and join the Big 12- there are a couple of power programs there but Arkansas would be more competitive in general. The SEC was another one of Broyles bad ideas.
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je100

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2017, 02:13:49 pm »

Is there really any other reason than demographics?  Alabama produces 5 times more NFL players than Arkansas.  Arkansas produces less NFL talent than Minnesota, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, Kentucky, Indiana, and Arizona.  Some of you people need to accept your fate.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/09/which_states_produce_the_most.html
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DLUXHOG

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2017, 02:14:25 pm »

we will not greatly increase our competitiveness until 1) we hire the right coach who can effectively attract more and higher quality out of state athletes, and 2) that same coach needs to bring a philosophy that can "out innovate" teams of similar or slightly higher talent.  Yes, there will be occasional years when Arkansas produces enough talent in skill positions to give us a couple of strong years but not enough to build a foundation of sustained excellence and not enough to survive the war of attrition in the sec.  We will rarely out talent anyone in the SEC so we have to get the right players developed in the right way in the right system at the right positions who are exceptionally coached.  The honest truth is that the genetics are different in the gulf and east coast states that make up the core of SEC recruiting and we don't get very many of those.  I don't think more time on the high school football field moves the needle on this materially.  Most of the other states in our conference produce more and higher quality sec players per capital than Arkansas.  The one thing Central Arkansas and delta schools can do better is find better ways to motivate more athletes to actually play football so that a few additional SEC recruits actually emerge from our small recruiting base. I wonder how many sec quality athletes actually don't even play football ?

bitch, bitch, bitch.... "our program doesn't promote and go after "top in state talent"".... no.. it's Arkansas doesn't have enough 4 & 5* black players in the high school system....    Sheesh, guys, make up your minds...........
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East TN HAWG

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2017, 02:15:21 pm »

Arkansas population: 3,000,942
Alabama population: 4,884,115 (two top tier university programs)
Louisiana population: 4,714,192
Mississippi population: 2,990,113 (two top tier university programs)
DFW MSA: 7,500,000


Alabama & Mississippi say "hello"....

Thanks for illustrating my point.  I agree Alabama is an now an exception.  They are not the standard. 

You use MS as an example.  When has either school sustained a winning program?  MS in the 60's.  I don't think the state of MS can SUSTAIN two winning programs at the same time.  One can win, but not both for more than 3-4 year period.     

LSU has twice the population that we are competing against. 

Generally speak higher populations produce more athletes.  We can not compete this way because we do not have the populations base.  If we want to win, think differently.  Improve the quality at the youth level.  Improve coaching, resources etc.  We must produce a higher percentage of DI athlete  to the overall population. 

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DLUXHOG

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2017, 02:19:13 pm »

Thanks for illustrating my point.  I agree Alabama is an now an exception.  They are not the standard. 

You use MS as an example.  When has either school sustained a winning program?  MS in the 60's.  I don't think the state of MS can SUSTAIN two winning programs at the same time.  One can win, but not both for more than 3-4 year period.     

LSU has twice the population that we are competing against. 

Generally speak higher populations produce more athletes.  We can not compete this way because we do not have the populations base.  If we want to win, think differently.  Improve the quality at the youth level.  Improve coaching, resources etc.  We must produce a higher percentage of DI athlete  to the overall population. 



Look... Arkansas has, right at it's back door, one of the most fertile and populated MSA's in the country (DFW at 7.5 million, which is a larger population than all SEC states except for Texas and Florida.)    We should focus and mine that specific field of talent.   DFW, by and large, actually loves the Hogs to a great extent...    We have a built in advantage in DFW since it possesses the largest Arkansas alumni population in the U.S.........   use it!
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redneckfriend

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2017, 02:21:30 pm »

If you really want to dig into the root cause of why AR cant support the Hogs with top tier talent, you can probably start with demographics.

Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama all have some very poor areas that most likely have struggling High Schools and infrastructure, but all three states have a much higher percentage of African American residents/students.  Did a quick Census.gov search and at 7/1/16, AR population was approx. 2.9million with 15% African Americans (around 478,000). 

Miss: 2.9milion population, 38% African American (1,135,000)
Bama: 4.8million population, 27% African American (1,300,000)

You see where this is going.  Now go look at the 2018 College Football recruiting player rankings on any site you choose. I looked at 24/7 and as I scrolled through the top 50 players, there were 5 white players and 45 black players. 

This is exactly right. Take one quick look at Alabama's defensive line, linebackers, dbs and where they are from. It may not be politically correct to say but football is a black man's game- as a generalization (meaning it is usually but not always true) African-American men are faster and have greater muscle mass. Anyone who loves football should be sympathetic to the problems black men (and women) face in life. Black players are the heart and soul of almost any successful football team.
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GunnerHawg70

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2017, 02:22:36 pm »

Look... Arkansas has, right at it's back door, one of the most fertile and populated MSA's in the country (DFW at 7.5 million, which is a larger state population than all SEC states except for Texas and Florida.)    We should focus and mine that specific field of talent.   DFW, by and large, actually loves the Hogs to a great extent...    We have a built in advantage in DFW since it possesses the largest Arkansas alumni population in the U.S.........   use it!

Jackpot!!! 
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Michael D Huff AIA

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2017, 02:26:09 pm »

Saw this recently at:
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2017/1/30/14375298/college-football-recruiting-state-rankings-population-capita

Sheds some light on why Arkansas struggles with recruiting and why Clemson can recruit to a town that's less than 20,000 population.

State   Population Est.   Blue Chips '13-'17   Per 100,000
1.  D.C.                      681,170        15   2.20
2.  Louisiana           4,681,666        74   1.58
3.  Georgia         10,310,371     141   1.37
4.  Mississippi           2,988,726        38   1.27
5.  Alabama           4,863,300        59   1.21
6.  Florida                 20,612,439      227   1.10
7.  Texas                 27,862,596     229   0.82
8.  Hawaii                   1,428,557       10   0.70
9.  Ohio                 11,614,373       79   0.68
10. Virginia           8,411,808       57   0.68
11. Tennessee           6,651,194       44   0.66
12. Maryland           6,016,447       36   0.60
13. South Carolina   4,961,119       28   0.56
14. Oklahoma           3,923,561       20   0.51
15. California         39,250,017     199           0.51
16. North Carolina    10,146,788       51   0.50
17. Arkansas           2,988,248       15   0.50
18. Utah                   3,051,217       14   0.46
19. New Jersey      8,944,469       41   0.46
20.  Nevada           2,940,058       13   0.44
21. Indiana           6,633,053       24   0.36
22. Michigan           9,928,300       35   0.35
23. Pennsylvania      12,784,227       44   0.34
24. Arizona           6,931,071       23   0.33
25. Illinois                 12,801,539       37   0.29
26. Washington           7,288,000       18   0.25
27. Oregon           4,093,465       10   0.24
28. Iowa                   3,134,693         7   0.22
29. Delaware              952,065       2   0.21
30. Kansas           2,907,289         6   0.21
31. Kentucky           4,436,974         9   0.20
32. Missouri           6,093,000        12   0.20
33. Colorado           5,540,545        10   0.18
34. South Dakota      865,454         1   0.12
35. Connecticut     3,576,452         4   0.11
36. Minnesota           5,519,952         6   0.11
37. Nebraska           1,907,116         2   0.10
38. Wisconsin           5,778,708         6   0.10
39. New Mexico           2,081,015         2   0.10
40. Idaho                   1,683,140         1   0.06
41. New York         19,745,289         6   0.03
42. Massachusetts   6,811,779         2   0.03

Every other state had 0 recruits.
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tampahog

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2017, 02:30:36 pm »

bitch, bitch, bitch.... "our program doesn't promote and go after "top in state talent"".... no.. it's Arkansas doesn't have enough 4 & 5* black players in the high school system....    Sheesh, guys, make up your minds...........
read my post.  I didn't say anything about us needing to go after more in state talent.  I reinforced we don't produce enough talent in our state and the ones we do produce usually aren't high performers at the sec level.  I also said I don't think we can fix this since the issue is primarily genetics (along with black population density As stated in other replies )
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DLUXHOG

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2017, 02:36:16 pm »

Saw this recently at:
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2017/1/30/14375298/college-football-recruiting-state-rankings-population-capita

Sheds some light on why Arkansas struggles with recruiting and why Clemson can recruit to a town that's less than 20,000 population.

State   Population Est.   Blue Chips '13-'17   Per 100,000
1.  D.C.                      681,170        15   2.20
2.  Louisiana           4,681,666        74   1.58
3.  Georgia         10,310,371     141   1.37
4.  Mississippi           2,988,726        38   1.27
5.  Alabama           4,863,300        59   1.21
6.  Florida                 20,612,439      227   1.10
7.  Texas                 27,862,596     229   0.82
8.  Hawaii                   1,428,557       10   0.70
9.  Ohio                 11,614,373       79   0.68
10. Virginia           8,411,808       57   0.68
................................

Every other state had 0 recruits.

top ten states ranked in order of number of recruits.... care to guess how many come from DFW (right in Arkansas' back door)?
Elite recruits per capita, 2013-17


State                                         Population Est.                             Blue Chips '13-'17
01 : Texas Population Est. :             27,862,596 Blue Chips '13-'17 :            229
02 : Florida Population Est. :            20,612,439 Blue Chips '13-'17 :            227 
03 : California Population Est. :        39,250,017 Blue Chips '13-'17 :            199 
04 : Georgia Population Est. :          10,310,371 Blue Chips '13-'17 :             141
05 : Ohio Population Est. :               11,614,373 Blue Chips '13-'17 :              79
06: Louisiana Population Est. :           4,681,666 Blue Chips '13-'17 :              74
07 : Alabama Population Est. :           4,863,300 Blue Chips '13-'17 :              59
08 : Virginia Population Est. :             8,411,808 Blue Chips '13-'17 :              57 
09 : North Carolina Population Est. : 10,146,788 Blue Chips '13-'17 :              51
10 : Tennessee Population Est. :         6,651,194 Blue Chips '13-'17 :             44
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redneckfriend

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2017, 02:39:13 pm »

top ten states ranked in order of number of recruits.... care to guess how many come from DFW (right in Arkansas' back door)?
Elite recruits per capita, 2013-17


State                                         Population Est.                             Blue Chips '13-'17
01 : Texas Population Est. :             27,862,596 Blue Chips '13-'17 :            229
02 : Florida Population Est. :            20,612,439 Blue Chips '13-'17 :            227 
03 : California Population Est. :        39,250,017 Blue Chips '13-'17 :            199 
04 : Georgia Population Est. :          10,310,371 Blue Chips '13-'17 :             141
05 : Ohio Population Est. :               11,614,373 Blue Chips '13-'17 :              79
06: Louisiana Population Est. :           4,681,666 Blue Chips '13-'17 :              74
07 : Alabama Population Est. :           4,863,300 Blue Chips '13-'17 :              59
08 : Virginia Population Est. :             8,411,808 Blue Chips '13-'17 :              57 
09 : North Carolina Population Est. : 10,146,788 Blue Chips '13-'17 :              51
10 : Tennessee Population Est. :         6,651,194 Blue Chips '13-'17 :             44


One more reason Arkansas should be in the Big 12.
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MountieDawg

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2017, 02:48:03 pm »

Fine post. 

Your idea is a good one.  One thing is for certain - improving Arkansas high school football will improve the Arkansas Razorbacks football team.  More importantly, an improvement in high school football will indicate  that more important issues currently robbing the state of a chance to compete in areas much more important than football, are being addressed. 

High School football in NWA is pretty good and they do well against some of the nations best teams... That is just money for coaches and facilities... Rarely do big difference makers come from NWA!  Luckily there are no rules in football that say you are required to have X numbers of players from your state.... Boise, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Tenn, Michigan and Colorado could have never been good... Even with Texas having so many players, they have at least 5 Power 5 conf teams and probably 10 or more Division 1 schools...  you have to go out and get the kids and cannot wait for them to walk through your door because you are located in their backyard. 
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hogsanity

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2017, 03:06:40 pm »

Look... Arkansas has, right at it's back door, one of the most fertile and populated MSA's in the country (DFW at 7.5 million, which is a larger population than all SEC states except for Texas and Florida.)    We should focus and mine that specific field of talent.   DFW, by and large, actually loves the Hogs to a great extent...    We have a built in advantage in DFW since it possesses the largest Arkansas alumni population in the U.S.........   use it!

Except it is over 300 miles from Fay to DFW. OU, OSU, SMU, TCU, UT, Baylor, A&M are all closer to DFW than is UofA.
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DLUXHOG

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2017, 03:08:03 pm »

Except it is over 300 miles from Fay to DFW. OU, OSU, SMU, TCU, UT, Baylor, A&M are all closer to DFW than is UofA.

you've heard of "automobiles", correct?
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hogsanity

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2017, 03:08:25 pm »

High School football in NWA is pretty good and they do well against some of the nations best teams... That is just money for coaches and facilities... Rarely do big difference makers come from NWA!  Luckily there are no rules in football that say you are required to have X numbers of players from your state.... Boise, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Tenn, Michigan and Colorado could have never been good... Even with Texas having so many players, they have at least 5 Power 5 conf teams and probably 10 or more Division 1 schools...  you have to go out and get the kids and cannot wait for them to walk through your door because you are located in their backyard. 

The good NWA team play good TEAM ball and have some good players but not game changers at the next level. For the most part Ar HS football teams are physically small and slow, when compared to teams in other states in the SEC. I was shocked when I saw how physically small both Fort Smith HS teams are this season.
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GunnerHawg70

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2017, 03:15:55 pm »

Here is the MaxPreps 2018 Top 25 Recruits in Arkansas.  Of course this will change over the course of the season but here is a strong indication of the state of HS football talent in Arkansas...make you own assumptions, comments and judgment.  I still believe the overall state-wide talent has declined in recent years.

25. ATH Payton Copher (6-foot, 185 pounds), Air Force

Primarily a running quarterback at Har-Ber in Springdale, Payton Copher projects to play safety at the next level. He rushed for 962 yards and 12 touchdowns in 11 games last season. He committed to Air Force in late June over offers from Army and Louisiana-Monroe.

24. 2-star* LB Hunter Swoboda (6-4, 220), uncommitted

Hunter Swoboda transferred from Joe T. Robinson in Little Rock to Bentonville West this summer. He played tight end and linebacker at Robinson, gaining offers from Air Force and Army in the process. The plan at Bentonville West is to have Swoboda play inside linebacker and H-back. A broken leg suffered at a camp this summer has set him back, but he’s since returned to action and his recruitment should pick up again soon.

23. 2-star* WR Trajen Johnson (6-2, 190), uncommitted

Trajen Johnson is an impressive athlete in football and basketball at Pulaski Academy in Little Rock. He caught 43 passes for 923 yards and 14 touchdowns as a junior. In the classroom, he scored 30 on the ACT and has a 4.13 GPA. With that combination of talents he’s garnered offers from all three service academies and six of the eight Ivy League schools.

22. 2-star WR Demetrice Holliday (6-3, 200), Arkansas State

Demetrice Holliday is a two-way standout defensive back and wide receiver for Batesville. In his high school career, he has 50 catches for 949 yards and 11 scores. He pledged to the Red Wolves on April 1, picking them over Louisiana-Monroe and Louisiana Tech.

21. 3-star G Biron Rossell (6-4, 265), Louisiana Tech

Biron Rossell had only a handful of FCS and Division II offers until the Louisiana Tech coaching staff saw him at a camp over the summer. The Bulldogs offered him on the spot and he committed two weeks later following a visit to the campus. From West Memphis Christian, he’s likely garner more offers with a strong senior season.

20. 3-star* DT Alejandro Ramirez (6-2, 295), uncommitted

At the FBS level, Alejandro Ramirez holds offers from Arkansas State and Navy. He’s also received some interest from Arkansas, Memphis and Missouri. Ramirez is a talented all-around athlete at Har-Ber, where he also is a standout on the wrestling team.

19. 3-star* DT Dayonte Roberts (6-2, 280), uncommitted

Dayonte Roberts is a popular target for Sun Belt schools with offers from Arkansas State, Louisiana-Monroe and Texas State. He’s a well-rounded defensive lineman with pass-rushing and run-stuffing ability. A standout defensive tackle at Cabot, he could player either tackle in a 4-3 defense or anchor a 3-4 scheme at nose guard.

18. 3-star* TE Adam Shepherd (6-4, 225), uncommitted

Adam Shepherd certainly has the size and athleticism to play tight end at the FBS level. He caught 36 passes for 600 yards and 9 touchdowns while playing tight end and wide receiver at Little Rock Catholic last season. Harvard, Louisiana-Monroe, Princeton and Yale are among his offers, and there is strong interest from Vanderbilt and Wake Forest.

17. 3-star T Jax Gasaway (6-7, 275), uncommitted

Jax Gasaway was presented with a preferred walk-on opportunity by Arkansas in June. The Star City native holds scholarship opportunities from Air Force, Arkansas State, Louisiana-Monroe, Louisiana Tech, Marshall and Texas State. With his height, he has the potential to add some weight to his frame and, at least physically, be an ideal FBS tackle.

16. 3-star G Jake Hardage (6-6, 326), uncommitted

Jake Hardage, from Pocahontas, projects to play guard in college and already has the size to do so. He holds an offer from Mississippi State. Fellow SEC schools Arkansas, Auburn and Ole Miss have previously shown some interest.

15. 3-star LB Oliver Nasilai (6-1, 244), BYU

Oliver Nasilai unsurprisingly pledged to BYU over Oklahoma State in June. He attended camps at BYU for several years and has built a close connection to the school, which his family developed a fondness for long ago. He had 61 tackles with 14 for losses in 11 games at Har-Ber as a junior and has since moved to Jessieville, where he’s playing running back and linebacker this season.

14. T Will Burgess (6-4, 340), uncommitted

Will Burgess broke his foot this summer just as he was on the verge of potentially gaining his first FBS offer. He’s since returned to full health with Arkansas and Memphis having shown strong interest in the tackle from Lake Hamilton in Pearcy. For now, his scholarship options include FCS and Division II programs.

13. 2-star DT Terry Hampton (6-2, 265), Arkansas State

Terry Hampton is in his fourth season as a starter at defensive tackle for El Dorado. That’s the position he’ll play at Arkansas State, where he committed in May and expects to sign in December. He chose the Red Wolves over Louisiana-Monroe.

12. 2-star RB Detravion Green (6-0, 174), Arkansas State

Detravion Green is the feature back for an Ashdown team loaded with talent entering the 2017 season. He’s rushed for 1,768 yards and 20 touchdowns while averaging 7.1 yards per carry over the past two seasons. He committed to Arkansas State in late July over Louisiana-Monroe and Louisiana Tech.

11. 3-star DT Billy Ferrell (6-3, 331), uncommitted

Billy Ferrell is a prototypical defensive tackle who has enough athleticism to also be used at tight end for Fordyce. He had 37 tackles and 4 sacks as a junior. His offer list includes Arkansas State, Colorado State, UMass and Memphis. Arkansas has shown interest and there’s a small chance he could still end up being part of the Hogs’ class as a late addition.

10. 3-star* T Larry Clark (6-4, 295), uncommitted

Larry Clark is a dominant tackle in a run-heavy offense at Blytheville. He’ll have some work to do in order to be a better all-around lineman at the next level, but he has all the tools needed. He holds a pair of Power 5 offers from Iowa State and Kansas, and his list of interested schools is impressive with Arkansas, Oklahoma and Tennessee among them.

9. 3-star QB Jaden Hill (6-4, 220), LSU (baseball)

Jaden Hill sees his future on the pitcher’s mound rather than at quarterback. The right-hander committed to pitch at LSU last December and won’t waver on that commitment unless something unforeseen happens. That hasn’t stopped football programs from extending offers. The dual-threat talent from Ashdown holds six FBS football offers, including Illinois and Missouri. He’s even spoken with LSU coach Ed Orgeron about the possibility of also playing quarterback for the Tigers.

8. 3-star T Noah Gatlin (6-7, 300), Arkansas

Noah Gatlin began the summer with offers from Arizona State, Indiana, Iowa State, Mississippi State, Texas Tech and several others. But he remained persistent on earning the one he wanted most — Arkansas. He did just that at the Trench Hogs camp in June, impressing the Razorbacks staff enough to earn an offer before he even left campus. He committed three days later. Gatlin fits the prefect profile of a future tackle, his primary high school position at Jonesboro.

7. 3-star ATH Nathan Page (6-0, 180), uncommitted

Wherever Nathan Page plays for Joe T. Robinson, he makes an impact. The defensive back has 8 interceptions over the past two seasons. Offensively, he caught 45 passes for 1,118 yards and 14 touchdowns as a junior. The results are also there as a special teams threat, having returned 2 kickoffs for touchdowns in his high school career. Arkansas State, Louisiana-Monroe and Louisiana Tech are his FBS offers to this point. However, several Power 5 programs have long been interested — a list that includes Arkansas, Oklahoma State, TCU and Texas A&M. If all goes well with his academics over the coming months, expect some major offers to roll in.

6. 3-star CB LaDarrius Bishop (6-0, 205), Mississippi State

If this list were sorted by speed, LaDarrius Bishop would be at the top. The cornerback from Ashdown was clocked running a 4.35-second 40-yard dash during a camp at Mississippi State last summer. That athletic display put him at the top of the Bulldogs’ priority list in the defensive backfield. Those efforts paid off as he committed to Mississippi State on July 15 over Arkansas and Oklahoma State. Baylor, Illinois, Iowa State and Purdue are also among his offers.

5. 3-star OL Luke Jones (6-6, 290), Arkansas

Luke Jones is the best in an impressive group of Natural State offensive linemen. From Pulaski Academy, Jones has all the tools to potentially play guard or tackle at the next level. Arkansas extended an offer to him at the Trench Hogs camp, the same day Gatlin and Nichols were also offered. He officially announced his commitment five weeks later. The Razorbacks beat out offers from Arizona State, Iowa State, Missouri, Oregon and Virginia.

4. 3-star ATH Sean Michael Flanagan (6-2, 195), Arkansas

Sean Michael Flanagan is talented enough to play either safety or wide receiver at a Power 5 program. In 14 games at Charleston, he had 65 catches for 1,121 yards and 17 touchdowns. He also had 4 interceptions and returned 5 punts for touchdowns. Flanagan holds offers from Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma State, and committed to the Razorbacks in June. He’s projected to play safety next year in Fayetteville.

3. 3-star DE Isaiah Nichols (6-4, 275), Arkansas

Isaiah Nichols is viewed as an underdeveloped prospect with a ton of upside. He’s been playing catch up with far more experienced players since his first season of football came as a sophomore at Springdale High. It appears to all be coming together now, though. Nichols has been dominant through three games as a senior, resulting in a rise from No. 7 on this list last month to No. 3 now. The Arkansas commit pledged to the Razorbacks in June over offers from Iowa State, Kansas State, Mississippi State, Missouri and others.

2. 4-star QB Gerry Bohanon Jr. (6-4, 213), uncommitted

Interest in Gerry Bohanon skyrocketed once film from his junior season at tiny Earle started making the rounds last winter. His first major offer came from Alabama. The Crimson Tide were soon followed by Arkansas, Auburn, Baylor, Georgia, Louisville, LSU and several others. Many schools, such as Alabama, extended an offer without even specifying a set position. His combination of talent and size is appealing enough that a lot of schools would take him as a linebacker or quarterback. But his desired position (by far) is quarterback, so expect him to end up signing with a school willing to put him behind center.

1. 4-star QB Connor Noland (6-3, 205), Arkansas

Connor Noland remains in the top spot as he’s off to an outstanding start in his season for Greenwood. Through three games, he’s completed 53 of his 78 passes for 680 yards and 9 touchdowns with no interceptions. He committed to Arkansas in July of 2016 and has been a firm pledge ever since. As a result, his full offer list isn’t as extensive as it would be had he remained uncommitted longer. A number of major programs — such as Florida, Florida State, Penn State, Texas A&M and UCLA — have either offered or would have if not for his strong pledge to Arkansas
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Roaringboar

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2017, 03:16:44 pm »

   

AR does not have the population (numbers) to support a blueblood program for sustained success like TX, Fla, CA, GA does.  We can't rely on the core recruiting base to support the total numbers to produce enough elite athletes for sustain success.  We will always need to go out state for a portion of each recruiting class. 

     

This is a horrible argument. Just because Arkansas doesn't have the same size program or population(numbers as you called it) as some of these other states, it doesn't mean we can't have a high caliber football team that can compete. That doesn't mean win the national title every year, but could at least be in the conversation. You don't have to have all of the money in the world. It does help, but look at the emergence from some of the smaller programs across the country. Look at Houston under Tom Herman. If he'd stuck around a few more seasons, who knows where he could've gone. I feel his last season was a fluke because he knew he was about to go to Texas. Everyone did, but look at what he did with Houston. Houston and Oklahoma was the talk of the nation before that game because Houston has the ability to compete. Louisville is in Kentucky and it's becoming a very dominant football program. Sure they lost to Clemson, but they are still a top 25 quality team. Arkansas doesn't even have that right now, and it starts with two things. One the coach. If the coach sees the system is broke and isn't doing anything to fix it, then he's a bad coach and needs to go. And the second thing is these faithless fans who feel Arkansas can't doesn't have what it takes to compete. We have the money to do a multi-million dollar expansion on the stadium just to close it in. We can afford a quality coach. The problem is we think we have to have Saban 2.0 or else we suck. We need a new coach, and though it's going to cost us, it'll cost us more next year if Bilema's still around and we look like we do next year when Bama comes to town. Can you imagine it. Razorback Stadium with either twice as many Bama fans because Hog fans didn't want to go see a slaughter, or worse, empty seats in the upper decks because everyone knew it was going to be a massacre....
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DeltaBoy

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2017, 03:22:46 pm »

RECRUITING IS THE ISSUE!
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Roaringboar

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2017, 03:27:33 pm »

RECRUITING IS THE ISSUE!

Arkansas will never draw a top 20 class, not until we can start challenging for the SEC West and we haven't done that since Petrino. Are recruiting isn't that bad. It's not as good as the rest of the SEC, but in the national picture, we're pretty decent. Top 30 every year. The job of the COACH is to develop the players he has recruited into the best team possible. Until either Bilema makes a change to how we play the game, or until he's gone, we won't get that far. We cannot compete playing the way we are now. It's not the talent's fault. It's the coaches. Austin was supposed to be one of the best in the SEC this year. A fifth year Senior who was praised by Archie Manning. Devwah was going to be a beast at the run game. We knew we would hurt at receiver and defense due to the changes we made, but we still had the talent. The problem is the coaches are not developing that talent. 
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GunnerHawg70

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2017, 03:28:01 pm »

RECRUITING IS THE ISSUE!

I agree and can say Arkansas HS doesn't produce a ton of P5 talent hence why outside of the state recruitment is paramount to keep up with and remain competitive upper echelon of CFB...
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MountieDawg

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2017, 03:31:59 pm »

The good NWA team play good TEAM ball and have some good players but not game changers at the next level. For the most part Ar HS football teams are physically small and slow, when compared to teams in other states in the SEC. I was shocked when I saw how physically small both Fort Smith HS teams are this season.

I agree with you.
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lstewart

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2017, 03:32:09 pm »

Another change in the state of Arkansas that I have not seen mentioned is the decreased participation for Arkansas high school kids in football. 50 years ago if I kid was an athlete in high school in Arkansas, his options were football, basketball, and track. Summer baseball was on option. Now look at the sports offered... soccer, tennis, golf, cross country, wrestling, baseball, etc ,etc. As someone mentioned earlier, just about every sport is now year round if the kid wants to excel at it. Baseball is year round, basketball is year round, tennis is year round, football is year round, the list goes on. So good athletes end up specializing in one sport, and many of them drop football. Add that to the health concerns with concussions, and football will continue to lose kids to other sports. I see the pool of kids coming out of high school in the future looking to play college football to shrink due to these issues, so the problem is going to get worse long term.
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GunnerHawg70

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2017, 03:33:18 pm »

Arkansas will never draw a top 20 class, not until we can start challenging for the SEC West and we haven't done that since Petrino. Are recruiting isn't that bad. It's not as good as the rest of the SEC, but in the national picture, we're pretty decent. Top 30 every year. The job of the COACH is to develop the players he has recruited into the best team possible. Until either Bilema makes a change to how we play the game, or until he's gone, we won't get that far. We cannot compete playing the way we are now. It's not the talent's fault. It's the coaches. Austin was supposed to be one of the best in the SEC this year. A fifth year Senior who was praised by Archie Manning. Devwah was going to be a beast at the run game. We knew we would hurt at receiver and defense due to the changes we made, but we still had the talent. The problem is the coaches are not developing that talent.

Spot on!!! I know it's easy to blame the HBC but maybe our position coaches and strength coach (BBH) aren't living up to their end of the bargain...CBB can't just fire coaches every time a player misses a blocking assignment or miss a tackle or field goal.  if he did that, no reputable coordinator / position coach would ever want to work with CBB or come to Arkansas...
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Hawghiggs

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2017, 03:34:30 pm »

  The root cause of the problem is the conference. Arkansas is at a disadvantage in the SEC. What we need is a new conference that is not the Big 12. But a conference built around Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and possibly Louisiana.
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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2017, 03:43:20 pm »

  The root cause of the problem is the conference. Arkansas is at a disadvantage in the SEC. What we need is a new conference that is not the Big 12. But a conference built around Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and possibly Louisiana.

I personally don't believe it's the conference.  A lot of teams in the SEC are struggling to find traction except you know who. Nicky Satan and Bama have set the bar so high that all other teams lose 1-3 games and the season is a fail in the eyes of all football pundits and fans. The one thing SEC was always known for is dominating and ruining seasons within the SEC.  Now the only thing feared by other conferences and teams is who gets the Bama game in the playoffs. 

So again, is up to Hogs Recruiting department to sell attending the University of Arkansas is a great thing for athletics, academics and experiencing all that the state has to offer...Try selling that to a heavily recruited kid out of Florida, Texas, Louisiana, etc.... :-\
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jst01

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2017, 03:50:12 pm »

I personally don't believe it's the conference.  A lot of teams in the SEC are struggling to find traction except you know who. Nicky Satan and Bama have set the bar so high that all other teams lose 1-3 games and the season is a fail in the eyes of all football pundits and fans. The one thing SEC was always known for is dominating and ruining seasons within the SEC.  Now the only thing feared by other conferences and teams is who gets the Bama game in the playoffs. 

So again, is up to Hogs Recruiting department to sell attending the University of Arkansas is a great thing for athletics, academics and experiencing all that the state has to offer...Try selling that to a heavily recruited kid out of Florida, Texas, Louisiana, etc.... :-\

and a lot of the teams in the SEC will always struggle in most years. In most years, the SEC will be led by Bama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia or Florida. Every now and then another team may rise up and challenge those. Just b/c other teams are also in our shoes and disadvantaged shouldn't make us feel any better about our situation.

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Re: The root cause to our problem
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2017, 03:58:39 pm »

and a lot of the teams in the SEC will always struggle in most years. In most years, the SEC will be led by Bama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia or Florida. Every now and then another team may rise up and challenge those. Just b/c other teams are also in our shoes and disadvantaged shouldn't make us feel any better about our situation.

Yah, not saying that we should feel great about being in the mediocre slot (as of now). What I'm saying is Rome (Championship caliber teams) wasn't built overnight and it will take all facets of recruitment, coaching, talent, player development, etc. to be a perennial player in the SEC.  So please understand that my point was starting with the level and skill set of current Arkansas HS state-wide football.

That will have a direct reflect on overall recruitment for the Razorbacks.   SO AGAIN, is up to Hogs Recruiting Department to sell attending the University of Arkansas is a great thing for athletics, academics and experiencing all that the state has to offer...Try selling that to a heavily recruited kid out of Florida, Texas, Louisiana, etc....
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