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Author Topic: What has caused the OL issues?  (Read 8017 times)

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KennyForAD

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #250 on: October 02, 2017, 09:08:38 pm »

No, I think that a lot of you feed off of each other and hyper-react. Nothing is as bad as some of you want to make it seem, it also isn't as good as some others might want to believe. We have work to do on the O-Line, but no one would be judging them so harshly if we had more experienced receivers who knew how to execute patterns and get open earlier. Then AA wouldn't be standing there waiting for them to break free because he wants to complete every throw.

In all but one game we have exceeded 200 yards rushing and after 4 games we are averaging 4.8 Yds/rush. That's not bad especially given the fact that Whaley is a young Soph. and still learning and Chase Hayden has very few snaps under his belt. Glad we have David. He's been an asset.

Still, we aren't perfect on the O-Line in pass pro, but as I have said before, half the Sacks that we have can't be attributed to the O-Line. RB's and TE's have missed on their pass pro and then AA is trying to wait until the last second to try to give the younger receivers a chance to get open. That leads to more hits on the QB. That's just how it is.

The defense is improved in many ways. They are more aggressive than last year but still not as consistently aggressive as we might like to see. I understand that, but they are 4 games into a new defensive scheme and still matriculating. You aren't going to see a refined product 4 games into a new scheme. In fact everyone on this board was discussing that every thing before the season started, yet here we are 4 games in and it has turned to, "woe is me, we suck".

And AA is a good QB but he is just doing the same thing that he did at the last part of last season, trying to put the whole team on his back and taking shots that he doesn't need to take. He's one of the best in the SEC if he can just learn to throw it away and live to play another play. Of course the receivers as a whole (not just 1, 2 or the occasional 3) need to get their act together and help out. That will open up the TE passing game and the run game even more.

So yeah, it's just my opinion but I think you are way off the mark along with anyone who thinks that way. We aren't that far from being a far better and more consistent team and if the defense can be just average, they will give us an opportunity to win 8 or 9 this year. But I will say that from a scheming standpoint on offense, we have to stop playing so conservative in the second half of games and continue to put the foot on the gas.

That's my two cents.

That's a good two cents!  Very good stuff.  Thank you for that.  Believe it or not, I hope you're right, and I'll bet that you ARE right.  I don't know as much as you, but I'll try to give you the best response I can from my perspective.  First and foremost, I don't know enough to have any suggestions of how to fix things.  I just know what I see.  If I am wrong about any of it, it won't surprise me, or hurt my feelings to be corrected.  Anyway, here's what I see:   

Offense:  I see an offensive line that routinely gets dominated on both ends and sometimes up the middle when pass blocking.  The line seems pretty good run blocking when it is not obvious that we are going to run the ball, but has GREAT difficulty gaining any yardage in obvious, or 'power rushing' attempts, and seems downright horrible at pass blocking.  Do I know how to fix those problems?  No.  No idea.  But I see the problems - and I'm pretty sure I'm right, because I saw it in game one, and it hasn't changed yet - not even Saturday against NMST.  Does that mean I disagree with your belief that it can be easily fixed? No.  I see no reason it can't change.  Receivers: I see receivers that are talented but don't seem to be running correct routes at times.  I don't know why that is, or even that I am certain that is the case.  I've just seen several balls thrown to spots where the receiver was NOT, and Allen clearly had expected a receiver to go there. QB:   I see a QB that seems VERY frustrated and is having a hard time dealing with the horrible protection and the incorrect route running, and who has a clear problem with forcing passes and throwing INT's.  It looks to me like the difficulties with the receivers and with pass blocking came as a TOTAL surprise to him, and he has been completely unprepared for it.   Was it unfair for me to simply say, "He's not a very good QB?"  Absolutely.   That's just a simple way to say something that is much more complex than that.  I think he would be an excellent college QB if he had good protection and a 'go to' receiver like he had last year.  But MOST QB's are great in those conditions.  A truly great QB can deal with adversity and perform much better than he is.  I also believe that the coaches somehow missed the problems we were going to have in the passing game and completely failed to prepare him for it.  I see them calling more and more screen passes and quicker routes, and believe they are doing what they can to fix that problem.  But, for whatever reason, I see a QB who is not playing well.  When I say he's not a good QB, that's what I mean.  Also, favoritism has been a problem for as long as I can remember at Arkansas.  I don't know that it still goes on, but I do suspect it.  Loved Brandon.  Think he was a great QB.  Am I being unfair to Austin?  Maybe.  But its what I see.  Do I hope he proves me wrong?  ABSOLUTELY.

Defense:  Our D last year was horrible.  Simply horrible.  It has been addressed by BB and I like the changes.  But we are new to the 3-4 and problems are to be expected.  I see an improved defense.  No question.  But we are thin in some key positions, and... I just don't know.  I expect continued improvement throughout the season, but I don't expect to have a very good defense at any time this year.  I don't really hold that against BB.  Actually, I credit him for addressing it and I believe it is being fixed, and that it WILL be fixed.

Special teams:  All I know is what I see.  All my life, the coaches who value special teams equally to offense and defense ... win.  Jimmy Johnson is primary example.  Coaches who do not emphasize special teams ..lose.  It seems to me that BB does not place importance on special teams and it has bitten him, HARD.  With decent special teams we could have had a magical season two years ago (my memory stinks, but I think 2015 - and even last year could have been really good).   Maybe BB has just had some rotten luck...maybe, but I don't think so.  I haven't noticed us ever having a real threat as a returner.  I see poor kickoffs and sometimes poor coverage.  Placekicking has been a nightmare.  Punting has been really good, but that's it.  How do you fix it?  All I can suggest is to realize that ST are just as important as offense and actually emphasize excelling at ST's.  Other than that, I have no idea.  I'm no coach.  Its just what I see.

I like BB very much.  I am proud to have him as our coach, and VERY MUCH want him to succeed.  But all I know is what I see, and I see him failing on the field.  I don't know why, or how to fix things, but I DO believe he can fix it, and that he will.  What drives me nuts is people pretending these problems don't exist.  They do.  If I can see it, anyone can.  I don't really expect much.  All I want is a respectable coach who does things right, and who fields a competitive, well coached team.  Kenny Hatfield could be my coach forever.  So can BB, if he just fixes the problems and becomes truly competitive.

Hope you like my response, MHF.  I put a little effort into it for once, just for you.  But like I said, I don't know as much as you, and its just what I see and what I think.  You are a great poster and good guy, and deserve better responses than what I've given.  The rest of em, the nitwits, can sit and spin for all I care.   Sorry I twisted off on you the other day.  Was just frustrated.   
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 09:26:19 pm by KennyForAD »
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #251 on: October 02, 2017, 09:25:16 pm »

But all I know is what I see, and I see him failing on the field.

The opinion on whether or not he can fix the "complete product" is the question in debate. People on both sides of that fence right now.
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KennyForAD

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #252 on: October 02, 2017, 09:44:59 pm »

The opinion on whether or not he can fix the "complete product" is the question in debate. People on both sides of that fence right now.

Right.  As for me, I guess I'm on that fence.  I didn't expect these problems, and don't understand how they can be so glaring and yet so ... unaddressed.
Part of me says, "It is what it is, and he's created it, so why expect that he can fix it.?"   But there's something nagging at me, telling me that he CAN fix it, and will.  I don't know what it is, or why.  Maybe its just that I like him so much, or maybe its something that I've seen over and over in life - that those people who are determined to succeed and never give up, in time, usually do.  I've also learned to stop and listen to my gut feelings (wish I had learned that much earlier in life), and my gut says that BB is going to succeed. Despite all my B'ing and moaning, and everything I see, I guess I just believe in the guy.  Hope I'm wrong about what I see and think, and right about what I feel.  We'll see, because there's no way Long will ever fire him before the end of next season.  He can't.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #253 on: October 02, 2017, 09:50:28 pm »

Right.  As for me, I guess I'm on that fence.  I didn't expect these problems, and don't understand how they can be so glaring and yet so ... unaddressed.
Part of me says, "It is what it is, and he's created it, so why expect that he can fix it.?"   But there's something nagging at me, telling me that he CAN fix it, and will.  I don't know what it is, or why.  Maybe its just that I like him so much, or maybe its something that I've seen over and over in life - that those people who are determined to succeed and never give up, in time, usually do.  I've also learned to stop and listen to my gut feelings (wish I had learned that much earlier in life), and my gut says that BB is going to succeed. Despite all my B'ing and moaning, and everything I see, I guess I just believe in the guy.  Hope I'm wrong about what I see and think, and right about what I feel.  We'll see, because there's no way Long will ever fire him before the end of next season.  He can't.

It seems that his preparation isn't sufficient for the speed and physicality of his upcoming schedule and that he requires a few games in order to get all the pieces together. The slow start problems we have is primarily the reason I'm kinda falling into the "won't be sad to see him go" side-of the fence and the reason I don't think he'll ever win the west during his time here (record against Alabama notwithstanding). 

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31to6

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #254 on: October 02, 2017, 09:58:39 pm »

The slow start problems we have is primarily the reason I'm kinda falling into the "won't be sad to see him go" side-of the fence and the reason I don't think he'll ever win the west during his time here (record against Alabama notwithstanding). 
The slow starts have been a thing at Arkansas for a long time. That is because, unlike much of our SEC brethren, we can't roll a ball out on the field in week one and count on superior athleticism to save the day.

The NCAA reduction in practice time hurts a program like ours much, MUCH, more than a 'bama or an Auburn, who have 5 stars backing up 5 stars.

The recipe to solve that is *supposed to be* stability, development, a solid redshirt program, leveraging walkons, great evaluation, and so on. But it is still a disadvantage.

That being said, we don't have to have a team that goes 5-0 to win the SEC. If we can build a team that can sneak up on Alabama by week 6 we can win the SEC-W with a little help. Honestly, if we drop aTm in week 3 but then run the table, what are the odds that the Aggies can hold their water in November?

Exactly.

So the slow starts are why I am not screaming for us to play an elite team weak one. That has never worked well. It is who we are. We need a little time.

But we have to get the real big problems fixed. In year 5 we should be starting RS-JR's who eat 280 lb defensive ends for breakfast at on the OL. Instead, we have a true frosh walk on. Our misses in recruiting and development have broken the formula.

Maybe CBB needs to crawl across a field of broken glass and ask his mentor, Barry, to help him build an SEC team?

IDK.
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KennyForAD

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #255 on: October 02, 2017, 10:01:00 pm »

It seems that his preparation isn't sufficient for the speed and physicality of his upcoming schedule and that he requires a few games in order to get all the pieces together. The slow start problems we have is primarily the reason I'm kinda falling into the "won't be sad to see him go" side-of the fence and the reason I don't think he'll ever win the west during his time here (record against Alabama notwithstanding). 



Do you think there is an ego issue at play here?  I could understand that.  Great success at Wisconsin, getting a little bit of the big head, plus underestimating the task at hand at Arkansas = Failing to recognize some of his own shortcomings?   Probably wishful thinking on my part, but maybe, getting slapped around a little, and feeling the heat from the fans, might get him on the right track?   
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KennyForAD

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #256 on: October 02, 2017, 10:07:56 pm »

The slow starts have been a thing at Arkansas for a long time. That is because, unlike much of our SEC brethren, we can't roll a ball out on the field in week one and count on superior athleticism to save the day.

The NCAA reduction in practice time hurts a program like ours much, MUCH, more than a 'bama or an Auburn, who have 5 stars backing up 5 stars.


The recipe to solve that is *supposed to be* stability, development, a solid redshirt program, leveraging walkons, great evaluation, and so on. But it is still a disadvantage.

That being said, we don't have to have a team that goes 5-0 to win the SEC. If we can build a team that can sneak up on Alabama by week 6 we can win the SEC-W with a little help. Honestly, if we drop aTm in week 3 but then run the table, what are the odds that the Aggies can hold their water in November?

Exactly.

So the slow starts are why I am not screaming for us to play an elite team weak one. That has never worked well. It is who we are. We need a little time.

But we have to get the real big problems fixed. In year 5 we should be starting RS-JR's who eat 280 lb defensive ends for breakfast at on the OL. Instead, we have a true frosh walk on. Our misses in recruiting and development have broken the formula.

Maybe CBB needs to crawl across a field of broken glass and ask his mentor, Barry, to help him build an SEC team?

IDK.

Great points.  Forget Kenny.  31to6 for AD.  Has a nice ring to it.  Somehow makes me think of ... Roland Sales.  hmmm
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secfan30

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #257 on: October 02, 2017, 10:10:20 pm »

You might find this amusing.  HOGVILLE is a much bigger deal than any of us know.  We sat in the front row yesterday behind the bench.  Ragnow got called for holding.  All-American, future first round draft pick, Frank Ragnow.  Some guy a few row behind us started screaming, “Get 72 out of there!” “He sucks!” “”Can’t play worth a #%*#”
I heard a player on the sideline shout “King of HOGVILLE is in the house!” and a handful of players laugh.  That pretty much sums up how important any of us are.

Sounds like Hogville is more of a joke than a "big deal".
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #258 on: October 02, 2017, 10:12:32 pm »

Do you think there is an ego issue at play here?  I could understand that.  Great success at Wisconsin, getting a little bit of the big head, plus underestimating the task at hand at Arkansas = Failing to recognize some of his own shortcomings?   Probably wishful thinking on my part, but maybe, getting slapped around a little, and feeling the heat from the fans, might get him on the right track?   
Positive spin:

Instead of not recognizing our shortcomings, is it a problem of not seeing our strengths? Is this a case of the staff not recognizing Arkansas' strengths???

Should we stop trying to be as big as 'bama and start letting players play at their natural size/speed?

Should the staff balance recruiting toward athleticism and away from GPA? I like the focus on character, but, on some level, a kid barely passing and with a bordeline ACT from SE arkansas might be as smart as a 3.0 GPA guy from Texas--he just has none of the academic support at his school that a texas athlete gets at a some Dallas metro magnet school that recruited him for football. Is that a character problem or an resource we are not tapping?

We could win with:

1) underrated, but fast, aggressive, chip-on-the-shoulder talent on defense and special teams
2) whoever Warren spits out at WR.
3) a high risk offense

??
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KennyForAD

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #259 on: October 02, 2017, 10:16:05 pm »

Sounds like Hogville is more of a joke than a "big deal".

That's what Houston Nutt thought!  :)


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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #260 on: October 02, 2017, 10:17:36 pm »

The slow starts have been a thing at Arkansas for a long time. That is because, unlike much of our SEC brethren, we can't roll a ball out on the field in week one and count on superior athleticism to save the day.

The NCAA reduction in practice time hurts a program like ours much, MUCH, more than a 'bama or an Auburn, who have 5 stars backing up 5 stars.

The recipe to solve that is *supposed to be* stability, development, a solid redshirt program, leveraging walkons, great evaluation, and so on. But it is still a disadvantage.

That being said, we don't have to have a team that goes 5-0 to win the SEC. If we can build a team that can sneak up on Alabama by week 6 we can win the SEC-W with a little help. Honestly, if we drop aTm in week 3 but then run the table, what are the odds that the Aggies can hold their water in November?

Exactly.

So the slow starts are why I am not screaming for us to play an elite team week one. That has never worked well. It is who we are. We need a little time.

But we have to get the real big problems fixed. In year 5 we should be starting RS-JR's who eat 280 lb defensive ends for breakfast at on the OL. Instead, we have a true frosh walk on. Our misses in recruiting and development have broken the formula.

Maybe CBB needs to crawl across a field of broken glass and ask his mentor, Barry, to help him build an SEC team?

IDK.
We have definitely wiffed on some OL recruits, which should put the coaching staff on EMERGENCY MODE. Our lack of production at Tackle is disgusting. Non performers seem to stay on the team for four years. It builds depth with upperclassmen on the 2-deep but they aren't really playing any meaningful snaps against conference opponents.

Let me ask this though, and I'm serious as a heart attack. Are our spring and fall camp deficiencies and slow starts somehow and our inability of getting these highly rated recruits ready to contribute at the top of the depth roster somehow the results of the same problem? If they are slow at getting the team ready to play their schedule, why wouldn't they be slow at coaching and developing talent.

I think there may be some truth to the Alvarez thing, maybe not on it's face, but certainly Bret would have to explain how they were fixing glaring problems during the season.
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What's Shakin' Macon

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #261 on: October 03, 2017, 02:11:13 am »

This is the first time I've looked back at the thread, but just wanted to say there were some great responses.

I don't think there's any way BB is playing his personal favorites, but it's certainly a confounding situation. If BB is choosing guys like Clary b/c they do the right things off the field, then the difference between him and the 4 stars on the field must be pretty negligible to begin with. 
Sounds like Pittman and poor evals are a big part of it.

I'm not sure why it's so incredibly difficult for us to find a reliable kicker and I'm not sure what's wrong with Hedlund, but I don't want to see him kick for us ever again.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #262 on: October 03, 2017, 05:28:52 am »

That's a good two cents!  Very good stuff.  Thank you for that.  Believe it or not, I hope you're right, and I'll bet that you ARE right.  I don't know as much as you, but I'll try to give you the best response I can from my perspective.  First and foremost, I don't know enough to have any suggestions of how to fix things.  I just know what I see.  If I am wrong about any of it, it won't surprise me, or hurt my feelings to be corrected.  Anyway, here's what I see:   

Offense:  I see an offensive line that routinely gets dominated on both ends and sometimes up the middle when pass blocking.  The line seems pretty good run blocking when it is not obvious that we are going to run the ball, but has GREAT difficulty gaining any yardage in obvious, or 'power rushing' attempts, and seems downright horrible at pass blocking.  Do I know how to fix those problems?  No.  No idea.  But I see the problems - and I'm pretty sure I'm right, because I saw it in game one, and it hasn't changed yet - not even Saturday against NMST.  Does that mean I disagree with your belief that it can be easily fixed? No.  I see no reason it can't change.  Receivers: I see receivers that are talented but don't seem to be running correct routes at times.  I don't know why that is, or even that I am certain that is the case.  I've just seen several balls thrown to spots where the receiver was NOT, and Allen clearly had expected a receiver to go there. QB:   I see a QB that seems VERY frustrated and is having a hard time dealing with the horrible protection and the incorrect route running, and who has a clear problem with forcing passes and throwing INT's.  It looks to me like the difficulties with the receivers and with pass blocking came as a TOTAL surprise to him, and he has been completely unprepared for it.   Was it unfair for me to simply say, "He's not a very good QB?"  Absolutely.   That's just a simple way to say something that is much more complex than that.  I think he would be an excellent college QB if he had good protection and a 'go to' receiver like he had last year.  But MOST QB's are great in those conditions.  A truly great QB can deal with adversity and perform much better than he is.  I also believe that the coaches somehow missed the problems we were going to have in the passing game and completely failed to prepare him for it.  I see them calling more and more screen passes and quicker routes, and believe they are doing what they can to fix that problem.  But, for whatever reason, I see a QB who is not playing well.  When I say he's not a good QB, that's what I mean.  Also, favoritism has been a problem for as long as I can remember at Arkansas.  I don't know that it still goes on, but I do suspect it.  Loved Brandon.  Think he was a great QB.  Am I being unfair to Austin?  Maybe.  But its what I see.  Do I hope he proves me wrong?  ABSOLUTELY.

Defense:  Our D last year was horrible.  Simply horrible.  It has been addressed by BB and I like the changes.  But we are new to the 3-4 and problems are to be expected.  I see an improved defense.  No question.  But we are thin in some key positions, and... I just don't know.  I expect continued improvement throughout the season, but I don't expect to have a very good defense at any time this year.  I don't really hold that against BB.  Actually, I credit him for addressing it and I believe it is being fixed, and that it WILL be fixed.

Special teams:  All I know is what I see.  All my life, the coaches who value special teams equally to offense and defense ... win.  Jimmy Johnson is primary example.  Coaches who do not emphasize special teams ..lose.  It seems to me that BB does not place importance on special teams and it has bitten him, HARD.  With decent special teams we could have had a magical season two years ago (my memory stinks, but I think 2015 - and even last year could have been really good).   Maybe BB has just had some rotten luck...maybe, but I don't think so.  I haven't noticed us ever having a real threat as a returner.  I see poor kickoffs and sometimes poor coverage.  Placekicking has been a nightmare.  Punting has been really good, but that's it.  How do you fix it?  All I can suggest is to realize that ST are just as important as offense and actually emphasize excelling at ST's.  Other than that, I have no idea.  I'm no coach.  Its just what I see.

I like BB very much.  I am proud to have him as our coach, and VERY MUCH want him to succeed.  But all I know is what I see, and I see him failing on the field.  I don't know why, or how to fix things, but I DO believe he can fix it, and that he will.  What drives me nuts is people pretending these problems don't exist.  They do.  If I can see it, anyone can.  I don't really expect much.  All I want is a respectable coach who does things right, and who fields a competitive, well coached team.  Kenny Hatfield could be my coach forever.  So can BB, if he just fixes the problems and becomes truly competitive.

Hope you like my response, MHF.  I put a little effort into it for once, just for you.  But like I said, I don't know as much as you, and its just what I see and what I think.  You are a great poster and good guy, and deserve better responses than what I've given.  The rest of em, the nitwits, can sit and spin for all I care.   Sorry I twisted off on you the other day.  Was just frustrated.   

Thanks for the well thought out response. I wish we could all have more civil discussions like this on here even if we do disagree at times.
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Jonbo

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #263 on: October 03, 2017, 06:02:36 am »

Thanks for the well thought out response. I wish we could all have more civil discussions like this on here even if we do disagree at times.
I agree. MSG's posts in this thread have been the most measured and mature while providing good analysis that I've seen on this site since the season began.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #264 on: October 03, 2017, 06:37:19 am »

As you all saw yesterday, guys were slicing and dicing our OL.  Is it talent, scheme, competition throwing relenting blitzes, or coaching?  On replays, I see O-Linemen not even seeing the defender run right past them. 

Wow another OL thread started. What will they think of next?
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Piggfoot

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #265 on: October 03, 2017, 08:34:54 am »

Well Pittman not signing one legit OT is a good start.  Choosing a 4* Hawaiian that never played a down in 4 years over Stockton Mallett who has become an All-American at UCA also points to the staff not being as astute in talent evals as we were led to believe they are.

Another issue is the Strength & Conditioning program may the biggest fraud that Bielema has committed against the citizens of Arkansas and their tax dollars.  Look up Jared Cornelius' 247 profile, look at his face from his Sr. year to his Jr. year here photos. He has put on 40 lbs.  That's not what you want w/ your skill players. Herb fattens up the players like they're cattle at a finishing lot. He's making them bulky and slow. There are way too many players with double chins, fat faces and smooth arms.  Look at rosters around the league, our opponents rosters are full of big guys that look how elite athletes should look. It's a reasonable explanation why we always gas out and wilt away in the 2nd half.

There's also not enough nastiness and desire to win/be the best.  Too much hero worship for just being a Razorback and not enough that are out there willing to put in the extra work to earn it.  They simply do not work hard enough and if you want some great technical analysis research Geoff Schwartz and read up on some of his articles. There are issues w/ the stances and first steps out of the stance with our OL and everything snowballs badly from there.
I think this is a good assessment. I'm not throwing all the blame on Anderson for now. Players taught one thing or too poor or unable to play as taught is one thing.
If you learn something wrong and try to change, it takes time to get out of bad habits.
I do know our Tackles are not quick enough to get in the way of rushing ends.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 03:04:55 pm by Piggfoot »
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #266 on: October 03, 2017, 06:56:16 pm »

As far as recruiting and the OT's go, here are the most current (that I could find) rankings of college LT's according to Walter Football for the 2018 NFL Draft. I can't speak for their accuracy or anything else, but this gives you an idea of where they came from, their ranking as a player according to 247 Sports and their size when signed. Is there a difference in what we are recruiting? Not on the surface anyway.

Trey Adams*, LT, Washington Height: 6-7. Weight: 302. Projected 40 Time: 5.32.
Projected Round (2018): 1. (Home: Wenatchee, WA- 4 star 6-7. 270)

Connor Williams*, LT, Texas Height: 6-6. Weight: 290. Projected 40 Time: 5.10.
Projected Round (2018): 1. (Home: Coppell, TX-3 star 6-5, 275)

Mike McGlinchey, LT, Notre Dame Height: 6-7. Weight: 310. Projected 40 Time: 5.30.
Projected Round (2018): 1. (Home: Philadelphia, PA-4 star 6-9, 275)

Martinas Rankin, LT, Mississippi State Height: 6-5. Weight: 307. Projected 40 Time: 5.20.
Projected Round (2018): 1-2. (Home: Miss Gulf Coast CC-4 star, 6-5, 300)

Martez Ivey*, LT, Florida Height: 6-5. Weight: 305. Projected 40 Time: 5.15.
Projected Round (2018): 2-3.  (Home: Apopka, FL-5 star, 6-5, 275)

Jamarco Jones, LT, Ohio State Height: 6-5. Weight: 310. Projected 40 Time: 5.20.
Projected Round (2018): 2-3. (Home: Chicago, IL-4 star, 6-5, 290)

Mitch Hyatt*, LT, Clemson Height: 6-5. Weight: 295. Projected 40 Time: 5.12.
Projected Round (2018): 2-4. (Home: Sewanee, GA-5 star, 6-5, 272)

Orlando Brown*, LT, Oklahoma Height: 6-8. Weight: 360. Projected 40 Time: 5.45.
Projected Round (2018): 2-4. (Home: Sewanee, GA-3 star, 6-8, 338)

Tyrell Crosby, LT, Oregon Height: 6-5. Weight: 310. Projected 40 Time: 5.28.
Projected Round (2018): 3-4. (Home: Henderson, NV-3 star, 6-5, 290)

Timon Parris, LT, Stony Brook Height: 6-5. Weight: 310. Projected 40 Time: 5.10.
Projected Round (2018): 3-5. (Home: Floral Park, NY-NR, 6-5, 320)

Bentley Spain, LT, North Carolina Height: 6-6. Weight: 300. Projected 40 Time: 5.09.
Projected Round (2018): 3-5. (Home: Charlotte, NC-4 star, 6-6, 275)

Geron Christian*, LT, Louisville Height: 6-6. Weight: 314. Projected 40 Time: 5.40.
Projected Round (2018): 4-6. (Home: Ocala, FL-3 star, 6-4, 305)

K.C. McDermott, LT, Miami Height: 6-6. Weight: 310. Projected 40 Time: 5.29.
Projected Round (2018): 5-7. (Home: Palm Beach, FL-4 star, 6-6, 300)

https://walterfootball.com/draft2018OT.php
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #267 on: October 03, 2017, 08:44:41 pm »

So it's fair to say that it is kinda rare that a walk-on or unranked player will make the draft board. More likely that a 5-4-3 star linemen will be drafted high.

If it were all that common, then there would be a Brandon Burlsworth every two or three years.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #268 on: October 03, 2017, 08:55:12 pm »

So it's fair to say that it is kinda rare that a walk-on or unranked player will make the draft board. More likely that a 5-4-3 star linemen will be drafted high.

If it were all that common, then there would be a Brandon Burlsworth every two or three years.

Check out Timon Parris of Stoney Brook above. A nobody from nowhere, yet a projected draft choice at LT. But yes, though it happens, it is probably more rare than not.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #269 on: October 03, 2017, 09:10:27 pm »

Check out Timon Parris of Stoney Brook above. A nobody from nowhere, yet a projected draft choice at LT. But yes, though it happens, it is probably more rare than not.

But to think that we have somehow broken the code with respect to identifying walk-on talent that has been completely overlooked by everyone in Division 1 football gives way to much credit to the staff thus far. Arguably his most productive walk-on in his Arkansas tenure is Randy Ramsey (walk-on the second time he came here), then I'd go with Johnny Gibson.

Lots a good players come from small schools. Jerry Rice from MVSU, Scottie Pippen from UCA etc etc... They had the skills but became physically matured while attending a small college to become 1st round picks. It's so rare that it's virtually impossible to identify those types of people.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #270 on: October 03, 2017, 09:41:53 pm »

Arguably his most productive walk-on in his Arkansas tenure is Randy Ramsey (walk-on the second time he came here), then I'd go with Johnny Gibson.

AJ Derby is the most productive walk-on Bielema has had.  Derby was a 4 star out of high school but he went JUCO after failing at Iowa then walked on here.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #271 on: October 03, 2017, 09:43:58 pm »

AJ Derby is the most productive walk-on Bielema has had.  Derby was a 4 star out of high school but he went JUCO after failing at Iowa then walked on here.

forgot about Derby. He was a serviceable TE his senior year.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #272 on: October 03, 2017, 09:46:16 pm »

forgot about Derby. He was a serviceable TE his senior year.

"Serviceable" is a laughable statement.  Derby was legit.


The only reason his numbers weren't higher was because he was competing for reps with a Mackey award winner.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #273 on: October 03, 2017, 09:51:03 pm »

"Serviceable" is a laughable statement.  Derby was legit.


The only reason his numbers weren't higher was because he was competing for reps with a Mackey award winner.

He was our blocking TE. Similar to Sprinkle the next year. Playing across from a Mackey Award winner.

Absolutely. He was serviceable. Had potential to be more than he was, but he wasn't.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #274 on: October 04, 2017, 05:31:19 am »

But to think that we have somehow broken the code with respect to identifying walk-on talent that has been completely overlooked by everyone in Division 1 football gives way to much credit to the staff thus far. Arguably his most productive walk-on in his Arkansas tenure is Randy Ramsey (walk-on the second time he came here), then I'd go with Johnny Gibson.

Lots a good players come from small schools. Jerry Rice from MVSU, Scottie Pippen from UCA etc etc... They had the skills but became physically matured while attending a small college to become 1st round picks. It's so rare that it's virtually impossible to identify those types of people.

Ramsey isn't really a true walk-on, so I can't count him. Clary was/is a scholarship player, his scholarship was just set back for a time for our convenience. Gibson would be a true walk on.

And no, I don't think that we have broken any code with regard to finding overlooked talent, though I do think that some programs are more open to a good walk on program than others and frankly, we are one of those programs that should be.

So what do we have in that list above? 2-5 stars, 6-4 stars, 4-3stars and 1 unrated player coming out of high school. Of course we have to assume that list isn't all-inclusive. I'm sure there are other LT's out there that may be every bit as good as these guys, but that is at least, an example.

In 2015 247 Sports had 340 OT's ranked in that class. Colton Jackson was #65 on that list. In 2014 they had 297 OT's ranked. #8 on that list was Brian Wallace. #25 on that list was Frank Ragnow. #30 was Jovan Pruitt. It appears that in 2014 they were targeting more highly ranked talent. Pruitt never made it to campus, that hurt the numbers game. Ragnow has turned out to be a great player for us and as talented as he is, we are still waiting for Wallace to take the RT position.

https://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&Position=OT
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #275 on: October 04, 2017, 08:23:55 am »


Remember 4 starters returned from this OL.
Wallace looked damn good on that video. He did get beat on the spin move once though ;D.
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #276 on: October 04, 2017, 08:26:46 am »

Here is a gif I found of Clary blocking in the 3rd qtr.

Toss right to David Williams.

Clary chips the one technique (or shade - it's hard to tell from the angle) and works to the linebacker.

Cantrell and Clary get pancakes.


Not hard to pancake a linebacker if you're 80 pounds heavier than them. That's what you're supposed to and should do. Not knocking the kid, just saying.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #277 on: October 04, 2017, 08:34:30 am »

Because he keeps getting the signals messed up and isn't getting it done in practice.
Was he getting the signals messed up last year? Then maybe we should dumb the system down a bit to get the most talented players on the field? And I'm guessing Ramirez and Clary are doing everything perfect ???.
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #278 on: October 04, 2017, 08:37:24 am »

They need to get it FIXED .
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #279 on: October 04, 2017, 08:42:35 am »

It's a distinction when discussing scholarship numbers and recruiting.  But during the season, if you're playing without a scholarship, you are a walk-on.  There's just not any wiggle room there.  It is what it is.
Not to mention Gibson is a former walkon. So one walkon, one former walkon, and one converted Dlineman.....yep over half our OLine are guys that either weren't recruited heavily at all, or weren't recruited to be an OLineman......yet all that talent on our bench.
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #280 on: October 04, 2017, 08:56:22 am »

Not to mention Gibson is a former walkon. So one walkon, one former walkon, and one converted Dlineman.....yep over half our OLine are guys that either weren't recruited heavily at all, or weren't recruited to be an OLineman......yet all that talent on our bench.

If the talent on the bench was getting the job done, they wouldn't BE on the bench.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #281 on: October 04, 2017, 09:02:39 am »

Was he getting the signals messed up last year? Then maybe we should dumb the system down a bit to get the most talented players on the field? And I'm guessing Ramirez and Clary are doing everything perfect ???.

There was a reason they had to have a speaker placed in Wallace's helmet during preseason practice. He was getting the signals mixed up. That's why he isn't starting. the problem isn't the system, it's Wallace. I'm sure he's trying hard but he just can't get the signals right.
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #282 on: October 04, 2017, 10:51:10 am »

Has anyone given consideration to the possibility that maybe our offensive scheme is too complicated for some of our OL to get a handle on?  How many of our offensive linemen played in a pro style scheme in HS?  I would venture to guess not many, most played in a spread. Just as having to train a spread QB to run our offense, it takes OL two to three years to get this thing figured out. We've got third year 4* linemen that can't figure it out, but have true freshmen in there?  I call this the definition of absolute madness.  CBB is hell-bent-for-leather on running a pro style offense, but he never really has the recruits to run it effectively.  Seriously, who in college still has the QB do the five step drop back, besides us that is?  The only way this will get fixed is to overhaul the offensive scheme, and the only way that's gonna happen is when CBB is no longer here.
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #283 on: October 04, 2017, 11:09:47 am »

The Hoganese isn't working.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #284 on: October 04, 2017, 11:35:15 am »

Wow another OL thread started. What will they think of next?

If there was one thing that everyone expected to have under BB, it was a powerful OL.  But somehow, the unit that everyone who follows college football expected to be the cornerstone of our team has turned out to be our biggest weakness.  Not only is it the weakest unit on our team, it is, without question, among the worst OL's in college football. It is no stretch at all to say that our OL is THE worst in major college football.   In 'goal line' situations, we are dead last in average yards gained rushing the football, in the entire P5.  Think about that. Every single doormat you can name in the P5 (Kansas, Vandy, Iowa Freaking State) is BETTER at punching it in from the one yard line than the Hogs. 

That would be hard to swallow, even if the OL were great at pass protection, but it isn't.  Pass protection is horrific.  In obvious passing downs, we typically allow a 'jailbreak' pass rush.  We make every defensive end we face look like Charles Haley - and we haven't exactly been playing the likes of Bama or Clemson.  TAMU played 18 true freshmen and DOMINATED our OL on pass plays. 

If you can't understand why the puzzling disaster of the Razorback OL is such a hot topic on a Razorback message board, then what can I say?  Do you stand in the rain and wonder why you're wet?  Do you go to horse barns and yell at the horses because you smell manure?  No.  You understand exactly why the OL is the hot topic.  I'll bet that you just don't like it because you see it as the 'coach haters' making a good point, and there is no way that you can defend BB's Oline disaster against the haters.   I get that.  Its understandable.  The 'coach haters' are a freaking nuisance, and it will really suck if they turn out to be right.  But you 'worshipers' don't realize that you are every bit as annoying, if not worse.  Friendly suggestion:  Drop the agenda and just be real.  Those of us who already are real and don't share in EITHER of your agendas would really appreciate it.

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #285 on: October 04, 2017, 11:41:59 am »

If there was one thing that everyone expected to have under BB, it was a powerful OL.  But somehow, the unit that everyone who follows college football expected to be the cornerstone of our team has turned out to be our biggest weakness.  Not only is it the weakest unit on our team, it is, without question, among the worst OL's in college football. It is no stretch at all to say that our OL is THE worst in major college football.   In 'goal line' situations, we are dead last in average yards gained rushing the football, in the entire P5.  Think about that. Every single doormat you can name in the P5 (Kansas, Vandy, Iowa Freaking State) is BETTER at punching it in from the one yard line than the Hogs. 

That would be hard to swallow, even if the OL was great at pass protection, but it isn't.  Pass protection is horrific.  In obvious passing downs, we typically allow a 'jailbreak' pass rush.  We make every defensive end we face look like Charles Haley - and we haven't exactly been playing the likes of Bama or Clemson.  TAMU played 18 true freshmen and DOMINATED our OL on pass plays. 

If you can't understand why the puzzling disaster of the Razorback OL is such a hot topic on a Razorback message board, then what can I say?  Do you stand in the rain and wonder why you're wet?  Do you go to horse barns and yell at the horses because you smell manure?  No.  You understand exactly why the OL is the hot topic.  I'll bet that you just don't like it because the 'coach haters' are making a good point, and there is no way that you can defend BB's Oline disaster.   I get that.  Its understandable.  The 'coach haters' are a freaking nuisance, and it will really suck if they turn out to be right.  But you 'worshipers' don't realize that you are every bit as annoying, if not worse.  Friendly suggestion:  Drop the agenda and just be real.


O-line has been the biggest disappointment of the Bielema era. For him to be successful here similar to what he did at Wisconsin...he has to have dominant O-line play. Not just good but absolutely wreck shop nasty and dominant. We haven't sniffed that, and it's disappointing. You will hear spin about how great they are "grading out" but I don't buy it. I believe what my eyes tell me.

+1 on the Charles Haley reference...one of my all time favorite NFL players.
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #286 on: October 04, 2017, 03:56:48 pm »

There was a reason they had to have a speaker placed in Wallace's helmet during preseason practice. He was getting the signals mixed up. That's why he isn't starting. the problem isn't the system, it's Wallace. I'm sure he's trying hard but he just can't get the signals right.
Ok, well answer this then. Why was he smart enough to start last year but not this year? Did he get dumber over night?
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #287 on: October 04, 2017, 04:07:15 pm »

Ok, well answer this then. Why was he smart enough to start last year but not this year? Did he get dumber over night?

I'm waiting for this one!
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #288 on: October 04, 2017, 04:08:35 pm »

Ok, well answer this then. Why was he smart enough to start last year but not this year? Did he get dumber over night?
I'm not an insider, but if I was to speculate, someone involved in personnel decisions does like him for some reason.  thus playing less talented players and not letting him on the field.  nit picking Wallace, while giving other players the benefit of the doubt. 

I think KA's comments basically demonstrate that.

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #289 on: October 04, 2017, 05:36:20 pm »

Ok, well answer this then. Why was he smart enough to start last year but not this year? Did he get dumber over night?

None of us have inside information here aside from FOTH and he isn't likely to comment on this...too much class. It seems that some don't understand that some players evolve and develop at a higher rate than others. It's quite possible that the explanation is as simple as Wallace performed better last year than he is this year, but then that would spur all kinds of conspiracy theories that are likely, unfounded. How could that possibly happen? It just happens. It shouldn't, but it does nonetheless. Some players PRO-gress while others RE-gress. It happens.
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #290 on: October 04, 2017, 07:11:22 pm »

Muskee, I could maybe agree with you IF Wallace was seeing the field AT ALL. He went from a 10 game starter to at best #8??? Think about this, he isn't even on the punt or XP team!!

Are you seriously going to try to tell me that he has "regressed" to the point of not even making the XP line? There simply has to be something going on behind the curtain to explain that level of drop.

And the real truth is that the easiest fix for our O'Line problems don't even have to involve Wallace!!! Move Ragnow to RT, Gibson back to his natural position of RG and Rogers becomes the center. Rogers was the #32 center coming out of HS, oh wait! Don't tell me, we missed on him too, right???

Our O'Line problems are just like our Kickoff problems and our defense problems, all can be summed up with 1 word STUBBORNESS!!!!!  BB is too stubborn to admit that his decisions might be wrong and therefore he refuses to give Wallace a fair chance, actually try to kick the ball into the endzone and take more chances on defense by being more aggressive!!!
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #291 on: October 04, 2017, 09:17:35 pm »

None of us have inside information here aside from FOTH and he isn't likely to comment on this...too much class. It seems that some don't understand that some players evolve and develop at a higher rate than others. It's quite possible that the explanation is as simple as Wallace performed better last year than he is this year, but then that would spur all kinds of conspiracy theories that are likely, unfounded. How could that possibly happen? It just happens. It shouldn't, but it does nonetheless. Some players PRO-gress while others RE-gress. It happens.

Some lineman get the opportunity to play through their shortcomings (Froholdt, Clary and Ramirez) and others dont. Just happens. Uncommon
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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #292 on: October 04, 2017, 11:24:23 pm »

I’ll stand in for Benny.  497 yards, ZERO sacks, and 42 points and there’s a crappy OL thread.  Brilliant.
It was NMSU and in your hurry to post stats, you didn't notice this thread was created a month ago. So yes, you exhibited a great deal of brilliance there as well.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #293 on: October 05, 2017, 05:26:49 am »

Muskee, I could maybe agree with you IF Wallace was seeing the field AT ALL. He went from a 10 game starter to at best #8??? Think about this, he isn't even on the punt or XP team!!

Are you seriously going to try to tell me that he has "regressed" to the point of not even making the XP line? There simply has to be something going on behind the curtain to explain that level of drop.

And the real truth is that the easiest fix for our O'Line problems don't even have to involve Wallace!!! Move Ragnow to RT, Gibson back to his natural position of RG and Rogers becomes the center. Rogers was the #32 center coming out of HS, oh wait! Don't tell me, we missed on him too, right???

Our O'Line problems are just like our Kickoff problems and our defense problems, all can be summed up with 1 word STUBBORNESS!!!!!  BB is too stubborn to admit that his decisions might be wrong and therefore he refuses to give Wallace a fair chance, actually try to kick the ball into the endzone and take more chances on defense by being more aggressive!!!

Well again, everything is just speculation and assumption unless you and I are given unlimited access to practice and staff and position meetings where we could see what is and isn't being accomplished.
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Youngsta71701

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #294 on: October 05, 2017, 10:02:02 am »

I’ll stand in for Benny.  497 yards, ZERO sacks, and 42 points and there’s a crappy OL thread.  Brilliant.
Even though there we 0 sacks Austin still got blasted 8 times and knocked on his ass numerous other times. It all adds up my friend.
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Youngsta71701

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #295 on: October 05, 2017, 10:02:48 am »

Well again, everything is just speculation and assumption unless you and I are given unlimited access to practice and staff and position meetings where we could see what is and isn't being accomplished.
Maybe we need to hire an inside man ;)?
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PolishPigPower

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #296 on: October 05, 2017, 10:10:36 am »

I'm not an O-line expert and never played the position, but what stands out to me are the tight splits in the line.  HDN and MikeyMarkuson had gotten their O-line splits exceptionally tight toward the end of their time here.  Should lend a hand to the run game, but typically causes pass blocking to be more difficult.  The similarities are starting to show.

I think the issues start with coaching, and that we can't understate how problems on the O-line ripple thru the rest of the team.  It's amazing how an average QB can become an All-American when he has a day and a half to throw, and how an average RB becomes a Heisman candidate when holes get routinely blown open for him.  This will be the big off-season change, IMHO, which will help save CBB (at least for a year).
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JaketheSnake

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #297 on: October 05, 2017, 10:33:42 am »

I'm not an O-line expert and never played the position, but what stands out to me are the tight splits in the line.  HDN and MikeyMarkuson had gotten their O-line splits exceptionally tight toward the end of their time here.  Should lend a hand to the run game, but typically causes pass blocking to be more difficult.  The similarities are starting to show.

I think the issues start with coaching, and that we can't understate how problems on the O-line ripple thru the rest of the team.  It's amazing how an average QB can become an All-American when he has a day and a half to throw, and how an average RB becomes a Heisman candidate when holes get routinely blown open for him.  This will be the big off-season change, IMHO, which will help save CBB (at least for a year).
Tighter splits can actually help fornoaas pro bc the ol will have more help and the DL has less land to make moves without running into someone else.  Run blocking has a more difficult time with real right splits bc holes don't open as wide and did a shorter amount of time.

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twistitup

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #298 on: October 05, 2017, 10:36:49 am »

Not retaining coaches is why we have the issues we have -
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zebradynasty

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #299 on: October 05, 2017, 10:41:25 am »

I'm not buying that Wallace can't understand or is too confused about the signals to play. OL are normally some of your smarter players on the team, at least that's been the case for Arkansas. Also, the OL is getting beat in more ways than just missed assignments. There is not much difference in getting beat by not knowing your assignments and getting beat with a speed rush every passing play.
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