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Author Topic: What has caused the OL issues?  (Read 7955 times)

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hogz11

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #100 on: September 19, 2017, 11:01:59 am »

You hear guys like Trey Biddy.........who evaluates recruits and covers the Hogs for a living and gets inside looks at the team, questioning the roster decisions at multiple positions. Asking questions of why certain players are given every chance possible and then some and why other players seem to have a much shorter leash. Heck, Biddy called McFain the better kicker way before the start of the season and Hedlund was still trotted out there only to lose the job.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #101 on: September 19, 2017, 12:18:17 pm »

You hear guys like Trey Biddy.........who evaluates recruits and covers the Hogs for a living and gets inside looks at the team, questioning the roster decisions at multiple positions. Asking questions of why certain players are given every chance possible and then some and why other players seem to have a much shorter leash. Heck, Biddy called McFain the better kicker way before the start of the season and Hedlund was still trotted out there only to lose the job.
Yea, you read things in the paper from scrimmages like 'Hedlund was 5-5 in the scrimmage, from 48 yards, 43 yards, 36, etc etc'
I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of that information. I'm sure it's true.
I just know from watching real live game action that it's just not there, and lost confidence in him in 2015. The kicks have always been too low, and then you factor 'game lights', heavy rush, pressure, etc. It's just not there.
At some point the coaches' knowledge of what happens in games has to be weighed against what happens in practice, and one side will win. In this case, as I said, I don't blame the coach for giving him another chance as the 'starter' in 2016...but to trot out the same player in 2017 was an epic fail.
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hogz11

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #102 on: September 19, 2017, 12:20:17 pm »

Yea, you read things in the paper from scrimmages like 'Hedlund was 5-5 in the scrimmage, from 48 yards, 43 yards, 36, etc etc'
I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of that information. I'm sure it's true.
I just know from watching real live game action that it's just not there, and lost confidence in him in 2015. The kicks have always been too low, and then you factor 'game lights', heavy rush, pressure, etc. It's just not there.
At some point the coaches' knowledge of what happens in games has to be weighed against what happens in practice, and one side will win. In this case, as I said, I don't blame the coach for giving him another chance as the 'starter' in 2016...but to trot out the same player in 2017 was an epic fail.

Bingo
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #103 on: September 19, 2017, 12:22:38 pm »


This is one of the things most don't get, or if they seven and all we have are the five O linemen with no back or TE, we don't get it blocked.
One of those classic, technically true, but totally misleading things.
As said, if most of the line does their job on a play, but one guy whiffs, so the play breaks down. Yet most of the O-line would have graded perfectly on the play.

Or, a guy drowning in a river whose 'average' depth was three feet. We've all heard that one before.

Just to say you can use statistics to prove anything yet totally miss the point.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #104 on: September 19, 2017, 12:23:07 pm »

Yea, you read things in the paper from scrimmages like 'Hedlund was 5-5 in the scrimmage, from 48 yards, 43 yards, 36, etc etc'
I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of that information. I'm sure it's true.
I just know from watching real live game action that it's just not there, and lost confidence in him in 2015. The kicks have always been too low, and then you factor 'game lights', heavy rush, pressure, etc. It's just not there.
At some point the coaches' knowledge of what happens in games has to be weighed against what happens in practice, and one side will win. In this case, as I said, I don't blame the coach for giving him another chance as the 'starter' in 2016...but to trot out the same player in 2017 was an epic fail.

He missed two kicks in 2016. Why would he lose his job?
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factchecker

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #105 on: September 19, 2017, 03:58:26 pm »

Heck, Biddy called McFain the better kicker way before the start of the season and Hedlund was still trotted out there only to lose the job.

Biddy thought McFain was the better kicker this season?

That's weird because McFain isn't on the team.  He graduated last year.
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MemphisBossHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #106 on: September 19, 2017, 07:10:49 pm »

The problem with the Oline is when BB came here he gave Pittman marching orders on the kind of Olinemen he wanted (road graders) and that what Pittman went out and got. All this worked well for the most part as long as the linemen had to just push straight forward Without a lot of lateral movement. When Enos came in and wanted to change things with a lot of pulling guards and lateral movement, Pittman saw that the changes were not something that his guys could do and said as much in a few interviews. In my opinion, this was the major factor in why Pittman left. Pittman saw the writing on the wall and knew that he would catch the blame for it. The same problem has been ongoing since Pittman left.  The linemen they got are not good at what they are being asked to do, and the young guys they have in now are better at what they want to do but don't have the talent or the experience to do it consistently. ALL of this comes from the fact that the head coach has lost his identity in what he wants his football team to be and its reflected most in his Oline.
very interesting.  Had not heard this before.  It does make perfect sense.  Pittman's OLinemen were absolutely huge.  Under him, we had the largest OLine in ALL of football including the NFL, but time and time again we watched smaller, quicker defensive linemen and LBs simply go around them and meeting the ball carrier in the backfield in short yardage situations. 

It certainly makes sense that Enos's more balanced offensive system would need a different kind of lineman.  Now couple that with BB most likely vetoing some of the things Enos wants to do and still trying to be a smashmouth run it down the other guy's throat team and you probably get what we are getting now. 

Enos wants to be balanced, creative, maybe some dink and dunk passing plays that can loosen up the defense, but then BB hears it on the headset and just cant help himself and says no.  (we have seen evidence of this when BB was still at Wisky and his OC Matt Canada confronted him about meddling in the offensive game plan instead of letting him do his job)  So maybe we end of with the wrong kind of linemen for the system we want to run.  But then again what is the system we want to run?  If we are going to be a smashmouth team, then why hire Enos?  If he wants to take advantage of Enos's system, then get the right kind of OLinemen that can move laterally.
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Nashville Fan

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #107 on: September 19, 2017, 07:23:30 pm »

Good theory but I don't see a lot of road grading. I see a two man stunt to the outside left with the first defensive guy drawing a double team and the second guy curling back to the inside and thumping the QB. Over and over and over.
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hawgfan4life

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #108 on: September 19, 2017, 07:24:20 pm »

The games on YouTube. Condensed into a few minutes. Find us the plays.

Okay.  I don't know how to copy a single play, but go to the 2nd quarter at the 6:48 mark.  This is an example of him simply staying in the way and getting stood up.  Go to the 2nd quarter at the 3:48 mark and watch the play live and keep watching the slow motion isolation with commentary of him getting blown-up.  Go to the 1st and goal at the 3 with 56 sec remaining in the 3rd and watch the next two plays.  The first he is stood up and shoved inside and the second the DL slants inside and he doesn't wash him back an inch.  He goes inside with him and he gets buckled on a pile where the ball was going.

I have no problem with the kid.  He did far better than a true freshman should ever be expected to do, but it is bullcrap that he is being needed to play when we have older, stronger, more experienced players that have been in the system multiple years sitting on the bench.  That is not a reflection on the young player but a reflection on the coach that didn't get the stronger, experienced players ready to play or at least have a substitute package to get them in when it was needed to move the LOS.

Kid is good.  Did an admirable job!  SHOULDN'T be in the game when he isn't physically ready five years into a system, which he isn't physically ready the way he gets manhandled on some plays.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #109 on: September 19, 2017, 11:05:42 pm »

He missed two kicks in 2016. Why would he lose his job?
How many were over 30 yards?

Tell me a meaningful kick that he made from 2015-17. Either won a game...sealed a game...or was from any meaningful distance. Any of the above.

He lost me by having kicks blocked that would have potentially won the Ole Miss game and the 29-yarder from the Miss St game that year. Forget somebody not being blocked, the fact remains his kicks have always been too low. All of that was obvious in 2015.

I'm glad you had confidence in him, because I sure didn't. I think anyone would look at Arkansas's kicking situation and see some real limitations there. At least McFain last year, he wasn't deadly accurate, but I had confidence that it was NOT going to be blocked. And I had reasonable confidence he would make it. I never had any of that with Hedlund.
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factchecker

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #110 on: September 19, 2017, 11:15:41 pm »

How many were over 30 yards?

He made a 38 yard field goal vs. TCU and Virginia Tech last season.

Hedlund made a 45 yard field goal vs. Ole Miss in 2015 - in hindsight that was pretty darn important.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #111 on: September 20, 2017, 12:23:27 am »

How many were over 30 yards?

Tell me a meaningful kick that he made from 2015-17. Either won a game...sealed a game...or was from any meaningful distance. Any of the above.

He lost me by having kicks blocked that would have potentially won the Ole Miss game and the 29-yarder from the Miss St game that year. Forget somebody not being blocked, the fact remains his kicks have always been too low. All of that was obvious in 2015.

I'm glad you had confidence in him, because I sure didn't. I think anyone would look at Arkansas's kicking situation and see some real limitations there. At least McFain last year, he wasn't deadly accurate, but I had confidence that it was NOT going to be blocked. And I had reasonable confidence he would make it. I never had any of that with Hedlund.

He missed two kicks last season and was 95% in camp. I'm just wondering what you thought would be the reason for him losing his job. Just a gut feeling or what? Because it wasn't his performance evidently.
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Youngsta71701

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #112 on: September 20, 2017, 07:52:49 am »

What has caused the OL issues?  Personnel management.
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hogz11

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #113 on: September 20, 2017, 09:59:39 am »

Biddy thought McFain was the better kicker this season?

That's weird because McFain isn't on the team.  He graduated last year.

You know good and well I was talking about last season. Stop trolling.
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hogz11

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #114 on: September 20, 2017, 10:01:45 am »

He missed two kicks last season and was 95% in camp. I'm just wondering what you thought would be the reason for him losing his job. Just a gut feeling or what? Because it wasn't his performance evidently.

I’m sure you will fire back, but I seriously wonder if Hedlund’s struggles are tied to the apparent lack of special teams emphasis under CBB.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #115 on: September 20, 2017, 10:02:26 am »

I’m sure you will fire back, but I seriously wonder if Hedlund’s struggles are tied to the apparent lack of special teams emphasis under CBB.

I feel like he's a head case.  Any high school field goal kicker could have made at least one of those kicks last game.

*edit
To be clear I don't mean personally, I mean kicking wise.
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Dominicanhog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #116 on: September 20, 2017, 10:04:51 am »

I feel like he's a head case.  Any high school field goal kicker could have made at least one of those kicks last game.

*edit
To be clear I don't mean personally, I mean kicking wise.

how many PAT's has he missed.. almost amazing to see.. sad also...
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #117 on: September 20, 2017, 10:10:04 am »

What has caused the OL issues?  This is an easy one: No Sam Pittman, mediocre OL execution. Pretty much sums it up.
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hogz11

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #118 on: September 20, 2017, 10:16:49 am »

I feel like he's a head case.  Any high school field goal kicker could have made at least one of those kicks last game.

*edit
To be clear I don't mean personally, I mean kicking wise.

Just so weird. Kickers seem to have that though.

They either have it come game time or they don’t.
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PorkRyan

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #119 on: September 20, 2017, 10:28:26 am »

He missed two kicks in 2016. Why would he lose his job?

You do realize that he did lose the job in 2016, right?  After he missed a 25 yarder and then a 40 yarder that he kicked into the line.   
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PorkRyan

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #120 on: September 20, 2017, 10:31:53 am »

He made a 38 yard field goal vs. TCU and Virginia Tech last season.

Hedlund made a 45 yard field goal vs. Ole Miss in 2015 - in hindsight that was pretty darn important.

He also missed a 27 yarder against TCU.  That 45 yarder was the only kick from 40+ that he made in his career at Arkansas. 
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forrest city joe

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #121 on: September 20, 2017, 10:35:34 am »

I think that's right.  I really don't even care that much.  I just remember reading reports throughout camp that McFain looked better.  He got a lot more air under his kicks, whereas Cole hit those line drives.
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justmakeit2thebcs

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #122 on: September 20, 2017, 10:38:51 am »

coach likes to play his favorites and you are the seeing the result
Yeah he doesn't care about winning or putting the best player on the field, he plays the guys that kiss his ass.  He should be playing the guys were rated four stars that don't don't put forth the effort required to be great.  If only we had Georgia's running game.
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forrest city joe

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #123 on: September 20, 2017, 11:31:59 am »

Yeah he doesn't care about winning or putting the best player on the field, he plays the guys that kiss his ass.  He should be playing the guys were rated four stars that don't don't put forth the effort required to be great.  If only we had Georgia's running game.
How do you know those 4 stars are not putting in the effort? all 5 are not good enough or putting in the effort and the walk on are. i will put it this way. the OL of walk-on and Defensive Linemen,is not working. they look bad these first 2 games.
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hogz11

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #124 on: September 20, 2017, 11:46:41 am »

Yeah he doesn't care about winning or putting the best player on the field, he plays the guys that kiss his ass.  He should be playing the guys were rated four stars that don't don't put forth the effort required to be great.  If only we had Georgia's running game.

You’re assuming the 4* guys aren’t putting forth the effort based on your belief the coach is playing the guys that work the hardest and look the best in practice. Many fans have lost that faith in CBB. My take is deeper on the roster decisions and I’ve already posted it multiple times.
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HoginMemphis

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #125 on: September 20, 2017, 12:55:37 pm »

I just watched the 9 min video of highlights of the 2010 LSU vs Arkansas in LR game. LSU was #5 and Ark was #12.

That Ark team's defense swarmed LSU. LSU couldn't run against the Hogs that game. Their QB was constantly harassed. Many sacks and hurries of LSU QB.

Mallet had years to throw. Great protection. Knile Davis had holes a truck could have driven through. WR's got separation from LSU defenders, and not just a little.

All in all, the current Razorback team looks like a FCS team on both sides of ball compared to the 2010 team. How has this program fallen so far in only a few years?
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Youngsta71701

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #126 on: September 20, 2017, 12:57:13 pm »

Instead of being called RBU or TEU we should be labeled WOOLU.
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GuvHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #127 on: September 20, 2017, 01:08:15 pm »

He missed two kicks last season and was 95% in camp. I'm just wondering what you thought would be the reason for him losing his job. Just a gut feeling or what? Because it wasn't his performance evidently.

Bielema is really feeling the pressure so he has a quicker hook than usual this season and Cole's removal from the Kickers depth chart is evidence of that.
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justmakeit2thebcs

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #128 on: September 20, 2017, 02:06:16 pm »

You’re assuming the 4* guys aren’t putting forth the effort based on your belief the coach is playing the guys that work the hardest and look the best in practice. Many fans have lost that faith in CBB. My take is deeper on the roster decisions and I’ve already posted it multiple times.
You are assuming that I am assuming? LOL.  You have no way of knowing who my contacts are and what I know and don't know.  And I could care less about the "many fans that have lost faith in CBB".  We and every other fan base have many, many idiots.  You quoted Trey Biddy about roster decisions?  Laughable.  Hitch your wagon to Brian Wallace and Biddy if you want.  Why people would rather gripe than support is beyond me.   Do you really think you can start a grass roots movement to get CBB removed?  Carry on.
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justmakeit2thebcs

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #129 on: September 20, 2017, 02:11:26 pm »

How do you know those 4 stars are not putting in the effort? all 5 are not good enough or putting in the effort and the walk on are. i will put it this way. the OL of walk-on and Defensive Linemen,is not working. they look bad these first 2 games.
You need to look at the tape.  Those two have not been the main issue.  Where do you get "they look bad" ?
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IronHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #130 on: September 20, 2017, 02:39:49 pm »

You need to look at the tape.  Those two have not been the main issue.  Where do you get "they look bad" ?


So who looks bad then?
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GuvHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #131 on: September 20, 2017, 02:43:21 pm »


So who looks bad then?

When there are 8 defensive players coming after the QB but only 5 linemen their to block them, the whole play looks bad.
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IronHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #132 on: September 20, 2017, 05:20:26 pm »

When there are 8 defensive players coming after the QB but only 5 linemen their to block them, the whole play looks bad.


He's saying the two chosen ones aren't they problem.....

Guess it's the All American and the "other two"
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #133 on: September 20, 2017, 07:28:59 pm »

Well Pittman not signing one legit OT is a good start.  Choosing a 4* Hawaiian that never played a down in 4 years over Stockton Mallett who has become an All-American at UCA also points to the staff not being as astute in talent evals as we were led to believe they are.

Another issue is the Strength & Conditioning program may the biggest fraud that Bielema has committed against the citizens of Arkansas and their tax dollars.  Look up Jared Cornelius' 247 profile, look at his face from his Sr. year to his Jr. year here photos. He has put on 40 lbs.  That's not what you want w/ your skill players. Herb fattens up the players like they're cattle at a finishing lot. He's making them bulky and slow. There are way too many players with double chins, fat faces and smooth arms.  Look at rosters around the league, our opponents rosters are full of big guys that look how elite athletes should look. It's a reasonable explanation why we always gas out and wilt away in the 2nd half.

There's also not enough nastiness and desire to win/be the best.  Too much hero worship for just being a Razorback and not enough that are out there willing to put in the extra work to earn it.  They simply do not work hard enough and if you want some great technical analysis research Geoff Schwartz and read up on some of his articles. There are issues w/ the stances and first steps out of the stance with our OL and everything snowballs badly from there.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #134 on: September 20, 2017, 07:38:46 pm »

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #135 on: September 20, 2017, 07:53:30 pm »

Bad evals? Bad coaching? Bad luck? All 3?

Boiler plate BB blaming will accomplish nothing in this thread, I'm truly wondering what has led to these problems.

Pittman leaving may have contributed, and perhaps Anderson needs to go. Also, bad luck in that a guy like Brian Wallace can't crack this starting lineup, despite being an army all american?


Bad coaching bad recruiting..:: hogville hated Pittman at the end. Well reap it
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What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #136 on: October 01, 2017, 08:53:53 am »

As you all saw yesterday, guys were slicing and dicing our OL.  Is it talent, scheme, competition throwing relenting blitzes, or coaching?  On replays, I see O-Linemen not even seeing the defender run right past them. 
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b501

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #137 on: October 01, 2017, 08:55:05 am »

free kurt anderson
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Hogs run wild

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #138 on: October 01, 2017, 08:55:52 am »

i'm sure Benny will be in quickly to defend the Oline.
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Hoggish1

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #139 on: October 01, 2017, 09:01:06 am »

As you all saw yesterday, guys were slicing and dicing our OL.  Is it talent, scheme, competition throwing relenting blitzes, or coaching?  On replays, I see O-Linemen not even seeing the defender run right past them. 

Passing: 19 for 26 / 264 yrds = 13.9 yrds per pass
Rushing: 228 yrds on 51 carries = 4.5 yrds per rush
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #140 on: October 01, 2017, 09:02:29 am »

Passing: 19 for 26 / 264 yrds = 13.9 yrds per pass
Rushing: 228 yrds on 51 carries = 4.5 yrds per rush

That, I’m sure you realize, doesn’t tell the whole story.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #141 on: October 01, 2017, 09:02:46 am »

I’ll stand in for Benny.  497 yards, ZERO sacks, and 42 points and there’s a crappy OL thread.  Brilliant.
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IronMountainHog

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #142 on: October 01, 2017, 09:05:16 am »

I’ll stand in for Benny.  497 yards, ZERO sacks, and 42 points and there’s a crappy OL thread.  Brilliant.
Feel free to also include all the holding penalties and yards we lost because of them.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #143 on: October 01, 2017, 09:06:15 am »

Probably food poisoning. They had a bad breakfast buffet Saturday am.
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jkstock04

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #144 on: October 01, 2017, 09:12:31 am »

I seriously worry about Austin Allen getting badly injured when we get into the meat of our SEC schedule. And I'm not even talking or thinking about losing our starting qb...I'm just worried about his well being, and no I'm not being facetious or sarcastic.

Our pass plays take too long to develop, O-line can't hold the blocks and he is gonna get absolutely hammered, planted, and beaten when we play the likes of Alabama or Auburn.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #145 on: October 01, 2017, 09:15:38 am »

Feel free to also include all the holding penalties and yards we lost because of them.
Two.  For a total of 20yds. Three penalties in the game for a total of 35yds. Hold on Ragnow. Hold on Ramirez.  Roughing passer on Greenlaw. 
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Hoggish1

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #146 on: October 01, 2017, 09:17:35 am »

That, I’m sure you realize, doesn’t tell the whole story.

Neither does it tell a lie.
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Swestwill66

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #147 on: October 01, 2017, 09:24:21 am »

O-lines are puzzling this year. There's lots of griping on here about a couple of 4 stars on the bench. Watching F.S.U yesterday, their o-line is awful! Against Wake forest. I would think that 4 and 5 stars make up most of their line . Their recruiting is close to Bama.
   Last night, L.S.U against Troy, L.S.U was getting pushed around by TROY!! Troy was putting pressure on the L.S.U  Qb. L.S.U recruits similar to bama.
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Hoggish1

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #148 on: October 01, 2017, 09:25:19 am »

I seriously worry about Austin Allen getting badly injured when we get into the meat of our SEC schedule. And I'm not even talking or thinking about losing our starting qb...I'm just worried about his well being, and no I'm not being facetious or sarcastic.

Our pass plays take too long to develop, O-line can't hold the blocks and he is gonna get absolutely hammered, planted, and beaten when we play the likes of Alabama or Auburn.

I'm curious; is this a wish or a fear? 

Likes...? As for Alabama/Auburn are you saying there others like them on our schedule?  Because if that's what you mean by likes, I can assure you there are none like them among Miss, MSU, USCe, LSU and UM.

I have observed you like the worse case scenario about Arkansas.  My question is:  Why are you are "fan?"
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #149 on: October 01, 2017, 09:27:45 am »

Neither does it tell a lie.

It tells the NMSU-Arkansas story.

Back to conference play next weekend. That will change.
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