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Author Topic: What has caused the OL issues?  (Read 8006 times)

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Wildhog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2017, 01:18:00 pm »

Hedlund was the better practice kicker.

Not according to a lot of reports. 
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2017, 01:26:11 pm »

Not according to a lot of reports.

Which ones?
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redleg

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2017, 01:28:26 pm »

Sam Pittman left.
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Wildhog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2017, 01:29:23 pm »

Which ones?

Biddy and West both thought McFain looked better.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if CBB gave the scholarship player the benefit of the doubt.
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Bebop

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2017, 01:34:17 pm »

AWESOME, now get this list to the equipment guy so he can have the stars put on the back of their practice uniforms. That has to be where the problem is, the coaches can't tell the star ratings when they are watching them practice.

Once you get this done I'm sure they will get the depth chart corrected.

Don't act like they weren't evaluated prior to being offered a scholarship. Sure, ratings can be off, but recruits  are  rated with certain indicators in mind, especially when coaches from other schools are evaluating  them.

It is one thing to overrate a recruit in a particular position and it is quite another to have several highly ranked recruits being outplayed by a walk-on. Either they weren't as good as we and other schools thought or something else is going on.

Either way, it goes back to coaching.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2017, 01:34:36 pm »

Biddy and West both thought McFain looked better.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if CBB gave the scholarship player the benefit of the doubt.
Lord knows a walk on over a scholarship player is unpopular these days! I don't put much faith in biddy or West. The way I remember it there wasn't any separation between them and Hedlund seemed to have the better ceiling. That and McFain ended up being the kick off guy, right?
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hogfanboy2

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2017, 01:35:53 pm »

It is the blocking scheme the CBB brought in.    I see so many times the OL first do a hand block or brush off block (finesse block) and then go after their primary blocking assignment, and too many times the brush block is the one making the tackle.  I think their view is you just need to give that first guy a little nudge and the RB will be past him by then and thus cannot make the tackle.  So they are asking the OL to do more than they should.   I’m sitting firmly in the armchair on this one, but it looks like to me in the zone read offenses  they have the OL  go after you primary assignment none of this finesse blocking and let the QB and RB  make the read. 
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forrest city joe

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2017, 01:36:56 pm »

AWESOME, now get this list to the equipment guy so he can have the stars put on the back of their practice uniforms. That has to be where the problem is, the coaches can't tell the star ratings when they are watching them practice.

Once you get this done I'm sure they will get the depth chart corrected.
Stars matter no matter if we want to believe it or not. that OL they put out there against TCU was one of the worst i have seen at Arkansas.sorry but it was.
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Kevin

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2017, 01:39:13 pm »

Stars matter no matter if we want to believe it or not. that OL they put out there against TCU was one of the worst i have seen at Arkansas.sorry but it was.

preach
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swinemaster

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2017, 01:43:35 pm »

It's not the coaching, something is wrong with Merrick and Wallace but you can't seem to figure that out.

Wallace and Merrick were recruited as Road graders for CBB's run first offense he ran in 2014 but now that Enos wants O-linemen that are quicker and can pull for the passing game, they are like ducks out of water.

Wrong again Guv.  Wallace and Merrick were evaluated and recruited by about 30+ different programs.  They could have gone anywhere.  And most places would probably have them succeeding.
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Wildhog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2017, 01:48:24 pm »

Lord knows a walk on over a scholarship player is unpopular these days! I don't put much faith in biddy or West. The way I remember it there wasn't any separation between them and Hedlund seemed to have the better ceiling. That and McFain ended up being the kick off guy, right?

I think that's right.  I really don't even care that much.  I just remember reading reports throughout camp that McFain looked better.  He got a lot more air under his kicks, whereas Cole hit those line drives.
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Been10Hog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #61 on: September 18, 2017, 01:52:38 pm »

Rankings don't matter unless the high ranked high school guy can beat out everyone else at the position. The coaches will play the best players. Hatfield recruited the #1 center in the country out of Texas, Dwayne Spann. When he got to campus I could bench press more than him as a 170# walkon DB. See Otis Kirk comment on that

http://nep.247sports.com/Gallery/Arkansas-Razorback-Recruiting-Luke-Jones-Noah-Gatlin-Will-Burges-53075076/Replies
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PorkRyan

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #62 on: September 18, 2017, 02:43:55 pm »

Lord knows a walk on over a scholarship player is unpopular these days! I don't put much faith in biddy or West. The way I remember it there wasn't any separation between them and Hedlund seemed to have the better ceiling. That and McFain ended up being the kick off guy, right?

No, McFain beat him out two different times and they still went back to Hedlund and then McFain beat him out for a 3rd time.  From all reports McFain was always better than Hedlund in practice and scrimmages.  Hedlund made one FG in his career at Arkansas over 30 yards.  McFain made 11 of 30+.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2017, 03:14:37 pm »

No, McFain beat him out two different times and they still went back to Hedlund and then McFain beat him out for a 3rd time.  From all reports McFain was always better than Hedlund in practice and scrimmages.  Hedlund made one FG in his career at Arkansas over 30 yards.  McFain made 11 of 30+.

All reports huh? Except the ones that matter evidently.
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oldhog63

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2017, 03:59:43 pm »

I think the main issue is that we don't have a well defined philosophy and system. It changes with coordinators and position coaches. Thus, you see inconsistent play. And, since the line has to work as a unit, inconsistency is more amplified.

If we had a well defined system, then you could recruit and develop to that system. In year five we should have for the most part a stocked pipeline and starting upperclassmen who are comfortable with what they are doing. Instead we see constant changing of players and positions and the predictable results of that.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2017, 04:01:57 pm »

I think the main issue is that we don't have a well defined philosophy and system. It changes with coordinators and position coaches. Thus, you see inconsistent play. And, since the line has to work as a unit, inconsistency is more amplified.

If we had a well defined system, then you could recruit and develop to that system. In year five we should have for the most part a stocked pipeline and starting upperclassmen who are comfortable with what they are doing. Instead we see constant changing of players and positions and the predictable results of that.

Hard to disagree with that.
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rickfahr

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2017, 04:06:21 pm »

Numbers in recruiting.  Development. 

Oline is probably the hardest position to evaluate in recruiting.  When you try and have a sophisticated blocking scheme which requires both firing off the ball in run blocking and then finesse backing up pass blocking it takes time to develop those players. Limited practice time in college hinders it too. Said the same thing back when Petrino was here.   Tough to do in college.  Takes numbers, athletic talent, player intellect and time to develop.

Should have recruited more OL earlier but we did have an entire program to overhaul.

As for shrinking practice time ... other people seem to have figured it out.
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zebradynasty

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #67 on: September 18, 2017, 04:13:53 pm »

Here are the list of 4 stars who can't get on the field for Arkansas.
Brian Wallace
Jalen Merrick
Zack Rodgers
Jake Heinrich
Jake Raulerson
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All beat out by blue shirts and Walk on's.

Someone need to explain this. I know stars don't mean much to some...but how did we miss on 5 players? Especially since we OL is suppose to our strongest focus.
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hawgfan4life

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OL
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2017, 05:46:39 pm »

I might be a conspiracy theorist with this question, but how many of Pittman's recruits are getting two deep versus walk-on and Anderson's recruits? Pretty suspicious that highly rated recruits can't beat out walk-on players.  I watched our RG get blown up too many plays to believe he was our best option.  OL stunk last year, has been unimpressive this year and Pittman's recruits are riding the pine.
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onebadrubi

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Re: OL
« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2017, 05:47:27 pm »

It would take you less than 5 minutes to do your own research and answer your question that has probably 5 topics on this posted on the front page of MMQB. 
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Bacons Rebellion

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Re: OL
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2017, 05:59:26 pm »

I feel one thing we can all agree on is that the best way to evaluate college football upperclassmen is based on their performance in their junior year of high school, as judge by journalists at recruiting services. What they do on the field and in practice is really irrelevant. Their bodies don't really change enough to make a difference in a few years, and they all have the same drive and motivation level. All of them can understand concepts that are a lot more advanced than in high school. The only thing that keeps a highly rated recruit on the bench is favoritism from a coach. It's well proven and obvious.
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247Hog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #71 on: September 18, 2017, 06:08:24 pm »

You guys are crazy....OL play is CBB strength remember?
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IronHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2017, 06:11:08 pm »

coach likes to play his favorites and you are the seeing the result


This mostly.


I predict the team quits and you see a massive influx of underclassmen playing by mid season.
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IronHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #73 on: September 18, 2017, 06:12:55 pm »


Remember 4 starters returned from this OL.
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lakecityhog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #74 on: September 18, 2017, 07:24:45 pm »

So we "missed" on 5 different 4* players and got "lucky" with 2 walk-ons???

I keep hearing that the reason a couple of these 4* guys cannot see the field is that we recruited "road graders" and now the OC wants to change the system, right? Yet, when we get a first-and-goal situation we call plays that require those same "road grader" blockers, please explain that for me?

Who sets the recruiting parameters for the O'Line? Who calls the plays? Shouldn't those 2 guys talk a little and maybe work something out???

Guys, you can blame the players all you want to, but if the questions above don't make you go "hmmm" then I don't know what to tell you.

One last question--- Why do SO MANY of you always seem to preach that stars do matter except when it comes to our own O'Line?????
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hawgfan4life

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #75 on: September 18, 2017, 07:47:56 pm »

It would take you less than 5 minutes to do your own research and answer your question that has probably 5 topics on this posted on the front page of MMQB. 
Rhetorical question, but it would take less than five minutes for 10 experts on here to post the answer.
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onebadrubi

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #76 on: September 18, 2017, 07:55:52 pm »

Rhetorical question, but it would take less than five minutes for 10 experts on here to post the answer.

I think it's funny that you are the only one that has seen the RG get blown up. 
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Nosboar Accubond

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2017, 08:14:14 pm »

The O line graded out pretty well against TCU... you should look directly to the QB and WRs for the reason we got drilled... and Enos bone headed coaching.

TCU stacked the box and dared us to beat them in the air. We couldn't beat 1-1 coverage, and they stuffed the run.

But please, keep worrying about the OL and Hedlund, which should be about numbers 4 & 5 of the "why this season will suck" list.

I'm done with CBB
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Big Daddy

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2017, 08:34:31 pm »

Here are the list of 4 stars who can't get on the field for Arkansas.
Brian Wallace
Jalen Merrick
Zack Rodgers
Jake Heinrich
Jake Raulerson
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All beat out by blue shirts and Walk on's.
This is all you need to know. It's not a mystery. Can't evaluate, can't recruit, can't develop. Bad combination.
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hawgfan4life

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #79 on: September 18, 2017, 09:09:29 pm »

I think it's funny that you are the only one that has seen the RG get blown up. 

May be my interpretation of blown up.  Go to the red zone plays.  I can't tell you which one because I already deleted the game.  It was one of the times inside the five yard line.  We ran the ball and Clary got driven backward.  He stayed in the way of his man and his man didn't make the play.  However, it was a perfect indicator of his inability to physically push his man and move the LOS which we needed to do inside the five.  Instead, he was moved backward.  Go watch those series and you will see.  There were other plays he was getting physically beat, but he stayed in the way of his man and managed to not let his guy make the tackle or the sack.  That is awesome that he has that kind of heart and knows what to do.  However, that won't win the LOS battle and other DC's will see this and start bull rushing him.  His many might not make the sack, but Clary's backside getting driven deep into the pocket is going to impact stepping up into the pocket and what the QB does.  It will also impact the short yardage plays and goalline offense.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #80 on: September 18, 2017, 09:30:54 pm »

May be my interpretation of blown up.  Go to the red zone plays.  I can't tell you which one because I already deleted the game.  It was one of the times inside the five yard line.  We ran the ball and Clary got driven backward.  He stayed in the way of his man and his man didn't make the play.  However, it was a perfect indicator of his inability to physically push his man and move the LOS which we needed to do inside the five.  Instead, he was moved backward.  Go watch those series and you will see.  There were other plays he was getting physically beat, but he stayed in the way of his man and managed to not let his guy make the tackle or the sack.  That is awesome that he has that kind of heart and knows what to do.  However, that won't win the LOS battle and other DC's will see this and start bull rushing him.  His many might not make the sack, but Clary's backside getting driven deep into the pocket is going to impact stepping up into the pocket and what the QB does.  It will also impact the short yardage plays and goalline offense.
The games on YouTube. Condensed into a few minutes. Find us the plays.
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Dominicanhog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2017, 09:44:44 pm »


Remember 4 starters returned from this OL.

Boy that was fun to watch.. AA looked a lot better there..that's for sure..
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onebadrubi

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #82 on: September 18, 2017, 09:48:31 pm »

Someone need to explain this. I know stars don't mean much to some...but how did we miss on 5 players? Especially since we OL is suppose to our strongest focus.

Rogers is playing behind what is considered to be one of if not the best center in college, so there is that.  Now you coudl question why does he not play guard, but I think that is playing with fire since he is your definite back up center shoudl an injury occur. 

Heinrich is MIA, no clue where he is.  I've asked on here and got nothing by goofy SA answers.  He was redshirted last year because of injury so who knows.

We saw Raulerson get blown up last year as a transfer. 

So you that leaves Wallace and Merrick, which all of this board would love to know what is going on, but as this point all we know is two less rated guys are playing over them. 
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zebradynasty

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #83 on: September 18, 2017, 10:05:26 pm »

The O line graded out pretty well against TCU... you should look directly to the QB and WRs for the reason we got drilled... and Enos bone headed coaching.

TCU stacked the box and dared us to beat them in the air. We couldn't beat 1-1 coverage, and they stuffed the run.

But please, keep worrying about the OL and Hedlund, which should be about numbers 4 & 5 of the "why this season will suck" list.

I'm done with CBB

I find that hard to believe. After the first series, we pretty much didn't get squat on the ground. When we did pass they put pressure on Allen. Maybe he held the ball a little longer than he should but TCU DL was beating our OL pretty easy.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #84 on: September 18, 2017, 10:17:46 pm »

The O-line has been a cluster since Pittman left.
I was willing to attribute poor play last year to turnover of personnel, but now in Year 2 I'm looking at the coaching.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #85 on: September 18, 2017, 10:32:59 pm »

You seriously offer nothing to an argument do you?

The same senseless banter of replies.

Guys give comprehensive arguments about the offensive line and kicker and your responses are, "Reports don't matter." and "Show me video."

You're borderline trolling with this non stop apologist crap.

It's true. It's unfair of me to ask people to back up thwir claims with actual examples from the game. It's easy to say anything. I'm interested to see if Clary was blown off the ball as people claim. I've watched the game twice and didn't see it. I don't ask anyone to do anything I wouldn't. FCJ asked me to prove him wrong with video in the last few days. Guess what I did. Showed him the video and he admitted he was wrong.  That's how this works.
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RedRazorHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2017, 12:05:19 am »

coach likes to play his favorites and you are the seeing the result

I agree.   He doesn't play the best players, nor the best athletes.   There are some physically-easy-to-see differences in what our o-line guys look like and what you see when you look at Alabama, LSU, MSU, Georgia and Florida's lines and ours.... take a look, it's really easy to spot.
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factchecker

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2017, 04:00:02 am »

I find that hard to believe. After the first series, we pretty much didn't get squat on the ground. When we did pass they put pressure on Allen. Maybe he held the ball a little longer than he should but TCU DL was beating our OL pretty easy.

You realize that we ran for 3 yards in the first series.  We ran better in the second series and also at the end of the 3rd quarter.
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factchecker

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #88 on: September 19, 2017, 04:03:04 am »

Here is a gif I found of Clary blocking in the 3rd qtr.

Toss right to David Williams.

Clary chips the one technique (or shade - it's hard to tell from the angle) and works to the linebacker.

Cantrell and Clary get pancakes.

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buldozer

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #89 on: September 19, 2017, 04:46:27 am »

It is hard to go out of state and get big time recruits. And when you do, you need them to pan out. Think about the effort it took to get Merrick and Wallace. There is no reason Ty Clary should be playing over them, or even the 3 freshmen that came in the Spring. Something is wrong with the coaching.
Ding Ding Ding! ^^^We have a winner!^^^
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buldozer

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2017, 04:52:27 am »

coach likes to play his favorites and you are the seeing the result
This is exactly correct. Many of the best players never see the field during games due to favoritism of others regardless of ability to play. This is why Keon Hatcher had to get injured before Drew Morgan ever got a chance to play.... if the hatcher injury never occurred, Drew Morgan would have sat on the bench right through his senior year never getting a chance to play. I have heard exactly the same is going on currently in the case of Will Gragg. He is not on the coach's favorites list and has rarely seen the field. In the last game I only seen him come in a couple times and made a good play when he got the chance.
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onebadrubi

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #91 on: September 19, 2017, 07:04:03 am »

This is exactly correct. Many of the best players never see the field during games due to favoritism of others regardless of ability to play. This is why Keon Hatcher had to get injured before Drew Morgan ever got a chance to play.... if the hatcher injury never occurred, Drew Morgan would have sat on the bench right through his senior year never getting a chance to play. I have heard exactly the same is going on currently in the case of Will Gragg. He is not on the coach's favorites list and has rarely seen the field. In the last game I only seen him come in a couple times and made a good play when he got the chance.

Thank you for proving you don't know anything.  Gragg had a non football related injury and has not practiced up until the tcu game.  He's supposedly back full 100% after tcu game and fighting for reps. 
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #92 on: September 19, 2017, 07:39:14 am »

This is exactly correct. Many of the best players never see the field during games due to favoritism of others regardless of ability to play. This is why Keon Hatcher had to get injured before Drew Morgan ever got a chance to play.... if the hatcher injury never occurred, Drew Morgan would have sat on the bench right through his senior year never getting a chance to play. I have heard exactly the same is going on currently in the case of Will Gragg. He is not on the coach's favorites list and has rarely seen the field. In the last game I only seen him come in a couple times and made a good play when he got the chance.
Yeah, Gragg has been hurt so....
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HoginMemphis

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #93 on: September 19, 2017, 07:55:48 am »

Bad evals? Bad coaching? Bad luck? All 3?

Boiler plate BB blaming will accomplish nothing in this thread, I'm truly wondering what has led to these problems.

Pittman leaving may have contributed, and perhaps Anderson needs to go. Also, bad luck in that a guy like Brian Wallace can't crack this starting lineup, despite being an army all american?
Mostly a fall off in successfully recruiting (which means getting them to sign a scholie and attend) of O linemen over the last 2 or 3 recruiting classes. Bielema did better with signing 4 star O linemen his first two recruiting classes. Fans either do not understand or do not want to understand the high correlation between signing 4 and 5 star O linemen and having a great O line and signing 3 star and below O-linemen and having many problems in run blocking and pass protection.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 09:14:36 am by HoginMemphis »
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zebradynasty

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #94 on: September 19, 2017, 08:48:59 am »

You realize that we ran for 3 yards in the first series.  We ran better in the second series and also at the end of the 3rd quarter.

Thank you for correcting me about the first series but my point is that I don't see how an OL graded out 80%+ with only 250 total yards of offense!
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IronHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #95 on: September 19, 2017, 08:51:07 am »

Mostly a fall off in successfully recruiting (which means getting them to sign a scholia and attend) of O linemen over the last 2 or 3 recruiting classes. Bielema did better with signing 4 star O linemen his first two recruiting classes. Fans either do not understand or do not want to understand the high correlation between signing 4 and 5 star O linemen and having a great O line and signing 3 star and below O-linemen and having many problems in run blocking and pass protection.


Yes and no.


You need those type players for a NC quality line....you can have a decent line with less.


BB took a functioning line and moved it around to play new undersized players.....again.
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IronHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #96 on: September 19, 2017, 08:53:23 am »

Thank you for correcting me about the first series but my point is that I don't see how an OL graded out 80%+ with only 250 total yards of offense!
All grading means is a player hit his assignment....not a reflection of an OL as a unit.


You can have a play blown up in the back field and 5/6 linemen do their jobs.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #97 on: September 19, 2017, 09:13:26 am »

Not according to a lot of reports.
There's an entire thread talking about the worries over the kicking game---last summer.
Two people in the whole thread expressed concern about the kicker. TWO. The others trotted out the usual excuses 'he's been doing great in practice...yada yada'

Me, I had already moved on from Hedlund in 2015. I had seen enough game action to make me highly doubt he would ever be a good kicker in game action.
I have no doubts that he kicked well in practice, but he had a poor 2015 season. It's one thing to give a guy another shot in 2016, that's fair. But NOT again in 2017.
These guys are either stubborn or just dumb.

I'm going to find that thread again...
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woodrow hog call

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #98 on: September 19, 2017, 09:41:44 am »

All grading means is a player hit his assignment....not a reflection of an OL as a unit.


You can have a play blown up in the back field and 5/6 linemen do their jobs.


This is one of the things most don't get, or if they seven and all we have are the five O linemen with no back or TE, we don't get it blocked.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #99 on: September 19, 2017, 12:18:17 pm »

You hear guys like Trey Biddy.........who evaluates recruits and covers the Hogs for a living and gets inside looks at the team, questioning the roster decisions at multiple positions. Asking questions of why certain players are given every chance possible and then some and why other players seem to have a much shorter leash. Heck, Biddy called McFain the better kicker way before the start of the season and Hedlund was still trotted out there only to lose the job.
Yea, you read things in the paper from scrimmages like 'Hedlund was 5-5 in the scrimmage, from 48 yards, 43 yards, 36, etc etc'
I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of that information. I'm sure it's true.
I just know from watching real live game action that it's just not there, and lost confidence in him in 2015. The kicks have always been too low, and then you factor 'game lights', heavy rush, pressure, etc. It's just not there.
At some point the coaches' knowledge of what happens in games has to be weighed against what happens in practice, and one side will win. In this case, as I said, I don't blame the coach for giving him another chance as the 'starter' in 2016...but to trot out the same player in 2017 was an epic fail.
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