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Author Topic: What has caused the OL issues?  (Read 7715 times)

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What's Shakin' Macon

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What has caused the OL issues?
« on: September 16, 2017, 01:08:01 am »

Bad evals? Bad coaching? Bad luck? All 3?

Boiler plate BB blaming will accomplish nothing in this thread, I'm truly wondering what has led to these problems.

Pittman leaving may have contributed, and perhaps Anderson needs to go. Also, bad luck in that a guy like Brian Wallace can't crack this starting lineup, despite being an army all american?
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b501

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2017, 01:27:39 am »

coach likes to play his favorites and you are the seeing the result
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radar

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2017, 02:18:49 am »

When I hear our coaches say that the defensive front was doing something they hadn't seen before, and were unable to adjust to, makes it pretty clear where the problem is.
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presidenthog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2017, 02:24:37 am »

coach likes to play his favorites and you are the seeing the result

It's a mixture of this and poor recruiting.

He cares more about guys being 5 min early to meetings and thier GPA than he does talent.

He is HDN, but instead of his favorites being the most talented guys, it's the guys who have his favorite personality and highest GPA.
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Qadi999

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2017, 05:19:22 am »

The problem with the Oline is when BB came here he gave Pittman marching orders on the kind of Olinemen he wanted (road graders) and that what Pittman went out and got. All this worked well for the most part as long as the linemen had to just push straight forward Without a lot of lateral movement. When Enos came in and wanted to change things with a lot of pulling guards and lateral movement, Pittman saw that the changes were not something that his guys could do and said as much in a few interviews. In my opinion, this was the major factor in why Pittman left. Pittman saw the writing on the wall and knew that he would catch the blame for it. The same problem has been ongoing since Pittman left.  The linemen they got are not good at what they are being asked to do, and the young guys they have in now are better at what they want to do but don't have the talent or the experience to do it consistently. ALL of this comes from the fact that the head coach has lost his identity in what he wants his football team to be and its reflected most in his Oline.
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Dominicanhog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2017, 06:57:25 am »

The problem with the Oline is when BB came here he gave Pittman marching orders on the kind of Olinemen he wanted (road graders) and that what Pittman went out and got. All this worked well for the most part as long as the linemen had to just push straight forward Without a lot of lateral movement. When Enos came in and wanted to change things with a lot of pulling guards and lateral movement, Pittman saw that the changes were not something that his guys could do and said as much in a few interviews. In my opinion, this was the major factor in why Pittman left. Pittman saw the writing on the wall and knew that he would catch the blame for it. The same problem has been ongoing since Pittman left.  The linemen they got are not good at what they are being asked to do, and the young guys they have in now are better at what they want to do but don't have the talent or the experience to do it consistently. ALL of this comes from the fact that the head coach has lost his identity in what he wants his football team to be and its reflected most in his Oline.

I agree about offensive philosophy changing... from Road graders to more mobility,,, wouldn't doubt before this year is over, we change again due to lack of production... lets hope not
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doc53

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 12:42:32 am »

less talent and a lack of coaching ability.
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ShadowHawg

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 06:44:24 am »

It is CBB and his love of underdogs.

We can let Froholdt and Clary get whipped without threat of losing starter status because they need to learn the position but we won't do that for any of the three four star rated linemen on the bench.

That's why the line play is bad.
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The_Iceman

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 06:49:40 am »

It is hard to go out of state and get big time recruits. And when you do, you need them to pan out. Think about the effort it took to get Merrick and Wallace. There is no reason Ty Clary should be playing over them, or even the 3 freshmen that came in the Spring. Something is wrong with the coaching.
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Been10Hog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 06:58:52 am »

It is hard to go out of state and get big time recruits. And when you do, you need them to pan out. Think about the effort it took to get Merrick and Wallace. There is no reason Ty Clary should be playing over them, or even the 3 freshmen that came in the Spring. Something is wrong with the coaching.
I really think the coaches do not have an agenda to play favorites. They are playing the players who win the job in practice. I hate it that we signed players ranked as high as Merrick and Wallace and then they don't pan out! But, we are going to play the best. I was a walkon in 80s for coach Hatfield. We signed the #1 center in country out of Texas. He mauled his high school opponents. When he got on campus he was big, but weak. I could bench press more than him as a 170# DB. You don't always get what is advertised by 5* and 4* rankings. I wish Wallace and Merrick would get a fire in their belly and take a position away!!
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Rudy Baylor

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 09:43:49 am »

I miss Big Dan the bar room brawler

he played nasty and I liked it
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Junkyard Hog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2017, 10:03:56 am »

I can't believe we're having as many OL issues as we do.

When Petrino was here, I never worried about qbs.

I thought when Beliema got here I'd never have to worry about the OL.  I was wrong.
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GoHogs1091

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 10:15:31 am »

Several things.

Bielema has yet to get the Left Tackle position figured out since he has been here.  Surprising since Bielema is regarded as being an OL "guru."

The Left Guard, Froholdt, is just in his 2nd season of playing the position.  While he has become better, he is still relatively inexperienced playing the position.  Experience matters for an Offensive Lineman.

Gibson, is being played out of position.  He is a Guard, not a Tackle.  Playing Gibson at Right Guard should be a basic fundamental decision by the Head Coach, but I presume it is a decision that is too difficult for Bielema to get correct.

Kurt Anderson is regarded as a technician teacher.  Anderson probably has saturated them with technique principles to the point that they are simply thinking too much in order to try to get technique correct.  Pittman just taught them to be physical, and to push the defensive players down the field.  Physicality a lot of times is more important than technique.
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hoglady

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 10:16:10 am »

I can't imagine they wouldn't play the best players.
I also can't imagine the 4* OL recruits sitting the bench aren't better than a freshman walkon.
It's just a strange situation.
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Razorback de Nosferatu

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 10:16:30 am »

The problem with the Oline is when BB came here he gave Pittman marching orders on the kind of Olinemen he wanted (road graders) and that what Pittman went out and got. All this worked well for the most part as long as the linemen had to just push straight forward Without a lot of lateral movement. When Enos came in and wanted to change things with a lot of pulling guards and lateral movement, Pittman saw that the changes were not something that his guys could do and said as much in a few interviews. In my opinion, this was the major factor in why Pittman left. Pittman saw the writing on the wall and knew that he would catch the blame for it. The same problem has been ongoing since Pittman left.  The linemen they got are not good at what they are being asked to do, and the young guys they have in now are better at what they want to do but don't have the talent or the experience to do it consistently. ALL of this comes from the fact that the head coach has lost his identity in what he wants his football team to be and its reflected most in his Oline.

I'm appreciative of Enos coming in here and improving both Brandon Allen and the passing game generally. 

But it's true that Arkansas has lost that tough, physical mentality they had during the Pittman/Chaney years.  It's fine to be a pass-first team when you've got the tools for that--Hatcher and Morgan bailed them out of a lot of tough situations last year.

Now, though, they're gone, and the majority of our offensive talent seems to be in the running game.

I was really hoping we could Lubbock (verb) TCU, and moving forward, get back to a run-first mentality that plays to the team's strength.  But the offense just has no identity right now.  Arkansas became a pass-first operation last year.  And with huge turnover in the receiving corp., now what?
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Piggfoot

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2017, 10:27:12 am »

Recruiting.
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KlubhouseKonnected

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2017, 10:32:15 am »

Who was it that quoted a retired college coach as Atari g our offensive line tries to do too much "NFL crap" that the majority of college players are not going to be able to do.
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ThisTeetsTaken

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2017, 10:33:22 am »

Pittman left.   Hasn't been replaced. 
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 10:35:25 am »

Numbers in recruiting.  Development. 

Oline is probably the hardest position to evaluate in recruiting.  When you try and have a sophisticated blocking scheme which requires both firing off the ball in run blocking and then finesse backing up pass blocking it takes time to develop those players. Limited practice time in college hinders it too. Said the same thing back when Petrino was here.   Tough to do in college.  Takes numbers, athletic talent, player intellect and time to develop.

Should have recruited more OL earlier but we did have an entire program to overhaul. 
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2017, 10:36:43 am »

Who was it that quoted a retired college coach as Atari g our offensive line tries to do too much "NFL crap" that the majority of college players are not going to be able to do.

And coaches have far less time to teach.
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Little Lady Back

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2017, 10:43:25 am »

I miss Big Dan the bar room brawler

he played nasty and I liked it

Skipper caught some flack on here during his time on the hill, but I liked his mean play and what he brought to the team. He did however make some knucklehead mistakes sometimes, but we could use that grit and meanness he had on the line now.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2017, 11:06:30 am »

Recruiting Failures and lack of fire .
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OneTuskOverTheLine™

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2017, 11:10:29 am »

coach likes to play his favorites and you are the seeing the result

 If you mean position coach, I believe you may be right. Some kids may be buying in more than others...
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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2017, 11:15:27 am »

I miss Big Dan the bar room brawler

he played nasty and I liked it
Yup...Big Skip brought a level of tenancious and nastiness that seems to be lacking with current OL...sure he got penalized and some were costly but you gotta love big guys that are just mean and ornery...
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DoctorSusscrofa

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2017, 11:25:47 am »

I can't imagine they wouldn't play the best players.
I also can't imagine the 4* OL recruits sitting the bench aren't better than a freshman walkon.
It's just a strange situation.

Coaches are probably not imagining.
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GuvHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2017, 11:25:51 am »

It is hard to go out of state and get big time recruits. And when you do, you need them to pan out. Think about the effort it took to get Merrick and Wallace. There is no reason Ty Clary should be playing over them, or even the 3 freshmen that came in the Spring. Something is wrong with the coaching.

It's not the coaching, something is wrong with Merrick and Wallace but you can't seem to figure that out.

Wallace and Merrick were recruited as Road graders for CBB's run first offense he ran in 2014 but now that Enos wants O-linemen that are quicker and can pull for the passing game, they are like ducks out of water.
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12247

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2017, 11:45:55 am »

If you know whats wrong with Merrick and Wallace, why don't you tell us.  And if you are in the know, why not tell us whats wrong with the 5th year senior QB, the huge bunch of WRs and nary a one that can do his job, the special teams that are pitiful at best, the D linemen that can be pushed around by TCU and some by FAM.  If its not coaching is the entire team smoking Mary Jane by the ton.  So far as I know our team and staff has the same NCAA rules as to practice time that all the other teams do, or maybe the NCAA has handicapped us on allotted time to practice and I am the only one who didn't get the message.  Hep us out here if you know.
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jgphillips3

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2017, 11:50:23 am »

It's not the coaching, something is wrong with Merrick and Wallace but you can't seem to figure that out.

Wallace and Merrick were recruited as Road graders for CBB's run first offense he ran in 2014 but now that Enos wants O-linemen that are quicker and can pull for the passing game, they are like ducks out of water.

That would be the simplistic, coach approved view.  It may even be the correct view.  However, we have an all-American center and the rest of the line continues to be either poor or average.  Is that talent (or lack thereof), talented players with the wrong skill set, players who aren't intelligent enough or coachable enough, bad work ethic, bad coaches, bad coaching by good coaches, bad system...who knows.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2017, 11:54:07 am »

Im wondering if some of it may be that some of the studs that Pittman recruited aren't buying in to Anderson's system or coaching.  Maybe they're still not happy about Pittman's departure. Could be a number of things.
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forrest city joe

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2017, 11:58:20 am »

coach likes to play his favorites and you are the seeing the result
You may be on to something here.i hate to think it's true.but some of the decisions on who plays on this OL is Mindboggling.we have 5 or four star OL who can't get on the field. and we have a converted DL,a walk on,and a Blue shirt starting on this team.something is very wrong here.i can not explain it.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2017, 12:03:17 pm »

It's hilarious and sad that so many of you think these coaches would put their livelihoods on the line to "play favorites". They put the guys out there who do the best in practice. If you have an issue with that talk to Merrick and Wallace and see if they will improve their performance in practice. That's the only way they're going to see the field.
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jgphillips3

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2017, 12:12:27 pm »

It's hilarious and sad that so many of you think these coaches would put their livelihoods on the line to "play favorites". They put the guys out there who do the best in practice. If you have an issue with that talk to Merrick and Wallace and see if they will improve their performance in practice. That's the only way they're going to see the field.

To be fair, HDN did just that so we do have recent history to suggest it.  If they have been playing favorites with less talented players, the heat currently on the staff will result in those more talented players hitting the field, sooner, rather than later.  If we lose to A&M looking anemic again, I suspect we will see several bench players at least get game time.  If the "more talented" players really just aren't that good, this lineup will stay the whole year.  So, either way, the playing favorites theory will either be confirmed or refuted soon enough.
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forrest city joe

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2017, 12:15:00 pm »

It's hilarious and sad that so many of you think these coaches would put their livelihoods on the line to "play favorites". They put the guys out there who do the best in practice. If you have an issue with that talk to Merrick and Wallace and see if they will improve their performance in practice. That's the only way they're going to see the field.
It's called being stubborn. he feels he can win with the guys who do good in practice.but what if those guys are not getting it done under game pressure? the games are what counts.the nobody tells me who to play stuff is fine if that's what you want to say.but don't be shocked if being stubborn gets you fired. and do not act like a coach has never played favorites.it happens.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2017, 12:15:22 pm »

To be fair, HDN did just that so we do have recent history to suggest it.  If they have been playing favorites with less talented players, the heat currently on the staff will result in those more talented players hitting the field, sooner, rather than later.  If we lose to A&M looking anemic again, I suspect we will see several bench players at least get game time.  If the "more talented" players really just aren't that good, this lineup will stay the whole year.  So, either way, the playing favorites theory will either be confirmed or refuted soon enough.

So you're saying all these folks are suffering from battered women's syndrome?  Just because a moron like HDN would do that 20 years ago doesn't mean it's happening now. Peoplenlove using this excuse but it's almost always an idiotic claim to make.
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GuvHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2017, 12:19:48 pm »

That would be the simplistic, coach approved view.  It may even be the correct view.  However, we have an all-American center and the rest of the line continues to be either poor or average.  Is that talent (or lack thereof), talented players with the wrong skill set, players who aren't intelligent enough or coachable enough, bad work ethic, bad coaches, bad coaching by good coaches, bad system...who knows.

It's the correct view. The Oline actually graded out well against TCU. 3 of the O-Linemen grade out at 90+.
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forrest city joe

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2017, 12:21:25 pm »

Here are the list of 4 stars who can't get on the field for Arkansas.
Brian Wallace
Jalen Merrick
Zack Rodgers
Jake Heinrich
Jake Raulerson
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All beat out by blue shirts and Walk on's.
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Kevin

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2017, 12:21:30 pm »

It's hilarious and sad that so many of you think these coaches would put their livelihoods on the line to "play favorites". They put the guys out there who do the best in practice. If you have an issue with that talk to Merrick and Wallace and see if they will improve their performance in practice. That's the only way they're going to see the field.

I don't know about playing favorites, but froholdt played almost every meaningful snap last year, and he was awful at times.
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GuvHog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2017, 12:24:27 pm »

Here are the list of 4 stars who can't get on the field for Arkansas.
Brian Wallace
Jalen Merrick
Zack Rodgers
Jake Heinrich
Jake Raulerson
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All beat out by blue shirts and Walk on's.

I believe all of those had some playing time against TCU but they didn't start.

By the way, the starting O-Line is made up of 4 scholarship players and a Blue Shirt.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2017, 12:33:09 pm »

I don't know about playing favorites, but froholdt played almost every meaningful snap last year, and he was awful at times.

But still evidently better than the option behind him.
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Kevin

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2017, 12:34:53 pm »

But still evidently better than the option behind him.

I believe it was more of : we are going to play him no matter what, to get him experience, because they have gone all in on how good he could be.

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Wildhog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2017, 12:37:12 pm »

I believe all of those had some playing time against TCU but they didn't start.

By the way, the starting O-Line is made up of 4 scholarship players and a Blue Shirt.

No such thing as a "blue shirt" except in recruiting discussion.  If you're on the team and not on scholarship, you are a walk-on.  When you get a scholarship, you're no longer a walk-on.  It's pretty simple.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2017, 12:47:03 pm »

No such thing as a "blue shirt" except in recruiting discussion.  If you're on the team and not on scholarship, you are a walk-on.  When you get a scholarship, you're no longer a walk-on.  It's pretty simple.

I believe there's a distinction that a blue shirt is guaranteed a scholarship and a walk on is not. I could be wrong about that.
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Wildhog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2017, 12:48:42 pm »

I believe there's a distinction that a blue shirt is guaranteed a scholarship and a walk on is not. I could be wrong about that.

It's a distinction when discussing scholarship numbers and recruiting.  But during the season, if you're playing without a scholarship, you are a walk-on.  There's just not any wiggle room there.  It is what it is.
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forrest city joe

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2017, 12:57:45 pm »

It is hard to go out of state and get big time recruits. And when you do, you need them to pan out. Think about the effort it took to get Merrick and Wallace. There is no reason Ty Clary should be playing over them, or even the 3 freshmen that came in the Spring. Something is wrong with the coaching.
+1000. we often disagree. but not on this.
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Been10Hog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2017, 01:03:19 pm »

No such thing as a "blue shirt" except in recruiting discussion.  If you're on the team and not on scholarship, you are a walk-on.  When you get a scholarship, you're no longer a walk-on.  It's pretty simple.
When you are the said walkon who was promised a scholarship and don't get one it is called the BULL-shirt
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Kevin

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2017, 01:04:00 pm »

When you are the said walkon who was promised a scholarship and don't get one it is called the BULL-shirt

or you have been sabaned
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woodrow hog call

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2017, 01:05:53 pm »

Here are the list of 4 stars who can't get on the field for Arkansas.
Brian Wallace
Jalen Merrick
Zack Rodgers
Jake Heinrich
Jake Raulerson
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All beat out by blue shirts and Walk on's.

AWESOME, now get this list to the equipment guy so he can have the stars put on the back of their practice uniforms. That has to be where the problem is, the coaches can't tell the star ratings when they are watching them practice.

Once you get this done I'm sure they will get the depth chart corrected.
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PorkRyan

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2017, 01:09:22 pm »

It's hilarious and sad that so many of you think these coaches would put their livelihoods on the line to "play favorites". They put the guys out there who do the best in practice. If you have an issue with that talk to Merrick and Wallace and see if they will improve their performance in practice. That's the only way they're going to see the field.

Cole Hedlund vs Adam McFain explain that one. 
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Wildhog

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2017, 01:13:36 pm »

Cole Hedlund vs Adam McFain explain that one. 

Actually, I have to agree with you on this one.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What has caused the OL issues?
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2017, 01:17:15 pm »

Cole Hedlund vs Adam McFain explain that one.

Hedlund was the better practice kicker.
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