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Author Topic: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited  (Read 1130 times)

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hogman64

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Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« on: October 08, 2017, 09:46:31 am »

What is with the trend under BB for our most highly rated players to not play????  Not in all
cases but in an alarming number of cases the most prized recruits don't come to the front ...

Froholdt was probably our most highly recruited D lineman except for Sosa  and he cant play there.

Gragg and Patton at tight end, neither really a factor.

Raulerson, Wallace , Rodgers  and Merrick, cant see the field at Oline.

We get Martin the highly recruited WR and Nance the little recruited WR and which one
comes to the top?

Cant remember all the names but  there were a  few WR more highly recruited than Morgan
and Hollister , who never saw the field.

I am sure there are other cases  but above is enough to make me wonder what the hell happens
to the more highly ranked guys on our team , it seems crazy the way walk ons or very lightly
recruited players beat them out, they don't get beat out by other highly rated players

Ty Clary is the classic case, why does he get such a golden opportunity for playing time right out of
high school? 

It is like we want to punish highly rated players in many instances. do we just constantly make mistakes
or recruit guys that don't want to work for it... that is hard to believe.
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Frontrowhog

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 09:56:33 am »

Eric Bolin from SEC Country wrote a piece about this. Pretty incredible that most of our high recruits from the last few years haven't panned out.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/heres-proof-the-numbers-say-arkansas-4-star-recruits-have-been-bad-under-bielema
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PygmalionEffect2

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 09:58:26 am »

You can add Jake Heinrich to that list of highly rated offensive linemen being passed up by freshmen walk-ons.
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Danny J

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 10:04:26 am »

That is what is frustrating the most...we have been told because they don't "understand the system" or "don't practice well" or whatever the excuse du jour...
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Danny J

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 10:05:40 am »

Matt Jones would have never played a down under this coach
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Vantage 8 dude

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 10:16:59 am »

What is with the trend under BB for our most highly rated players to not play????  Not in all
cases but in an alarming number of cases the most prized recruits don't come to the front ...

Froholdt was probably our most highly recruited D lineman except for Sosa  and he cant play there.

Gragg and Patton at tight end, neither really a factor.

Raulerson, Wallace , Rodgers  and Merrick, cant see the field at Oline.

We get Martin the highly recruited WR and Nance the little recruited WR and which one
comes to the top?

Cant remember all the names but  there were a  few WR more highly recruited than Morgan
and Hollister , who never saw the field.

I am sure there are other cases  but above is enough to make me wonder what the hell happens
to the more highly ranked guys on our team , it seems crazy the way walk ons or very lightly
recruited players beat them out, they don't get beat out by other highly rated players

Ty Clary is the classic case, why does he get such a golden opportunity for playing time right out of
high school? 

It is like we want to punish highly rated players in many instances. do we just constantly make mistakes
or recruit guys that don't want to work for it... that is hard to believe.
Makes one wonder whether it's an issue with either evaluating/recruiting the talent to begin with or the development (or lack thereof) once they get on campus. However, I suspect the problem is actually a combination of both. Usually is....
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WorfHog

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 10:30:10 am »

That is what is frustrating the most...we have been told because they don't "understand the system" or "don't practice well" or whatever the excuse du jour...

If your best players can't understand the system. Then it's time for a new system.
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ballinhog

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2017, 10:49:17 am »

One of the more obvious ones and the one that drives me most insane is TJ Hammonds. Can't remember off the top of my head how highly rated he was but he looks like our best guy with the ball in his hands. It's like he gets punished for gaining too many yards. I don't think it's even particularly close as far as anyone else on the team being as dangerous as him with the ball. I know this one has been beaten to death on here and social media but it's literally driving me crazy. Yesterday, 2 carries, 11 yards per carry, then vanished. It's just weird.

I'm sorry to say this and I'm sure he's gonna be a good player one day and not doing just flat terrible right now but you can not convince me that Clary can go out there and move people around more effectively than Merrick or B Wallace, he just can't, not right now.

Every time I see a WR drop a pass all I can think is "I bet B Martin woulda caught that"


Idk I could go all day talking about things this staff just doesn't seem to get, the things that are so obvious, to folks who don't even know anything about football. Even my sister yesterday made a comment "why don't they give it to #6 more he's better than all of them" I mean damn even she see it. And she knows so little about the game she gets mad when their guy catches our punts, she's like what the hell it went right to him that was stupid" lol seriously. And even she sees TJ Hammonds talent.

Fire Bret
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hogman64

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 01:30:57 pm »

Makes one wonder whether it's an issue with either evaluating/recruiting the talent to begin with or the development (or lack thereof) once they get on campus. However, I suspect the problem is actually a combination of both. Usually is....

it is endless frustration trying to figure it out, but the evaluation part, I mean every one of these guys had big time schools after them, in some cases Alabama even......and those schools were  evaluating them the same as we were.....so there are to many instances of that for me to think we are just getting faked out by their "stars" and offering  to many over rated kids... it seems the culture, atmosphere, system put in by our coach allows non recruited/lightly recruited guys to maybe  over achieve and highly rated guys to under achieve..unrecruited guys over achieving generally is not going to win SEC championships or even compete very well..

Maybe by striking gold with a guy like J J Watt B B has gotten out of balance  in his thinking...maybe in the north/slower culture this works out better...IT ISNT WORKING HERE.
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presidenthog

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 02:21:09 pm »

Matt Jones would have never played a down under this coach

This x1000. This coach does not care about your athletic ability, only if you are 45 min early to a 3:35 am meeting.

When we fire this fraud and get a new coach. You will see huge roster changes in sure.
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hawgmasta

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2017, 03:10:40 pm »

This x1000. This coach does not care about your athletic ability, only if you are 45 min early to a 3:35 am meeting.

When we fire this fraud and get a new coach. You will see huge roster changes in sure.

Yep. ANd 9/10 talent will beat you regardless of coaching UNLESS you have somebody who is a master at X's and O's. Even if you do though, I would guess talent still wins 7/10 times.
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Tejano Jawg

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2017, 03:49:01 pm »

Makes one wonder whether it's an issue with either evaluating/recruiting the talent to begin with or the development (or lack thereof) once they get on campus. However, I suspect the problem is actually a combination of both. Usually is....

Yo Hogman64…don't think you and all your people haven't crossed my mind since yesterday afternoon. Just horrible.

The question your post poses—what happens?—and what Vantage 8 follows with—I think it has to be a combination. You gotta get a solid player, then you make him better. Do you know how many times in the past couple years I've thought about starting a thread with the words "RECRUITING" and "DEVELOPMENT" (especially Development) in the title?

Ever hear Saban talk about his program? He doesn't need to talk about the first part, that's easy enough to follow. He stresses how they develop players. Not all his guys are 5-star recruits. But do you think for a second those guys get there and not get attention? Same for Gary Patterson at TCU. Heck, he doesn't even get 5-star guys to begin with…but look at what he does with them.

Every year I read about our recruiting class, I think it sounds good enough (I don't get bent out of shape when we don't finish top 5.) But what happens when they get on campus is the story. The skill guys develop for the most part, but why don't we see consistent improvement on D (as a unit)? Right now, why don't we have the best offensive line in football?…with a mix of seniors and juniors?
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2017, 04:18:42 pm »

Eventually this narrative that high rated recruits don't get playing time at Arkansas will hurt recruiting. Other teams will use aby advantage to sway a recruit to come play for their school. It's going to hurt recruiting.
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hogman64

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2017, 04:41:44 pm »

Yo Hogman64…don't think you and all your people haven't crossed my mind since yesterday afternoon. Just horrible.

The question your post poses—what happens?—and what Vantage 8 follows with—I think it has to be a combination. You gotta get a solid player, then you make him better. Do you know how many times in the past couple years I've thought about starting a thread with the words "RECRUITING" and "DEVELOPMENT" (especially Development) in the title?

Ever hear Saban talk about his program? He doesn't need to talk about the first part, that's easy enough to follow. He stresses how they develop players. Not all his guys are 5-star recruits. But do you think for a second those guys get there and not get attention? Same for Gary Patterson at TCU. Heck, he doesn't even get 5-star guys to begin with…but look at what he does with them.

Every year I read about our recruiting class, I think it sounds good enough (I don't get bent out of shape when we don't finish top 5.) But what happens when they get on campus is the story. The skill guys develop for the most part, but why don't we see consistent improvement on D (as a unit)? Right now, why don't we have the best offensive line in football?…with a mix of seniors and juniors?

I feel like our Hogs have been taken away from us the last couple of years.. not even sure I am going up for Auburn...like another guy said if it isn't already this trend of higher rated guys sitting the bench for whatever reason, is going to hurt recruiting of the few really highly rated guys we do actually  have a chance for.  there is to much of this to believe we just happen to get talented guys who are over rated or refuse to work hard.. I call BS on that..   there is some sort of disconnect between this staff and highly rated guys.. message to BB , every walk on isn't going to be a J J Watt.
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PossumFan

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2017, 08:41:34 pm »

I think a lot of teams have highly rated recruits that don't pan out for some reason. The other team I follow closely, Virginia, has had a number of those in recent years: a Parade All-America running back who did virtually nothing, another running back who was practically a Virginia HS legend who only had modest success in his final year, a big and strong-armed 4-star QB (No. 4 pro-style in country by Rivals) who was absolutely awful ... I could go on and on. It just seems worse for our teams because we're not really paying close attention to the others.
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Mo_Better_Hogs

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2017, 09:18:43 pm »

Interesting thread. and the true root of our problem, even though it's not a 'singular' problem.

Good points in here--we recruit guys that sound great, with a long list of offers. When they don't deliver as expected by their junior season, was it just a miscalculation? And yes, that happens. Or did we not develop the player?

The Saban reference is true. Some of their best players during his time there were 3-star guys. Things happen at Alabama, and other top schools, that don't happen at Arkansas.
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hogman64

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Re: Our Most Highly Rated Players When Recruited
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2017, 11:01:06 pm »

I think a lot of teams have highly rated recruits that don't pan out for some reason. The other team I follow closely, Virginia, has had a number of those in recent years: a Parade All-America running back who did virtually nothing, another running back who was practically a Virginia HS legend who only had modest success in his final year, a big and strong-armed 4-star QB (No. 4 pro-style in country by Rivals) who was absolutely awful ... I could go on and on. It just seems worse for our teams because we're not really paying close attention to the others.

yes there are busts at every school to some extent of course at most schools those busts are beat out by similarly rated guys not guys who  are walk ons or had  no offers from any other school in the same conference..... I bet you cant find another school that you can look at the offers of the first team o line and compare them to the offers of the second team oline and it will be anything close to  what ark is... throw out Ragnow and realize all Froholdts offers were for defense and it is unbelievable....
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