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Author Topic: And then what?????  (Read 3568 times)

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BigE_23

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #300 on: September 14, 2017, 08:26:44 pm »

Then reverse it:

1. LSU
2. Alabama
3. Arkansas

My point still stands. A Hog win over LSU would have moved the Hogs into a 3 way tie for the SEC West title with LSU and Bama plus the Hogs would have moved up to at least #2 in the nation putting them in the national title game.

Also not likely true...

In the build up for the LSU matchup, the analyst and prognosticators all said that even if Arkansas beat LSU, they would likely have stayed at 3rd.

LSU's average was so high that the projections showed even a loss wouldn't have dropped them past 2nd

If LSU had somehow dropped down below us, even for a week, Alabama would have played in the SEC championship game and ended up #1 and we would have likely been overtaken by either Oklahoma State or Stanford.

The only reason that didn't happen to Alabama is because they're, well...Alabama.

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OneTuskOverTheLine™

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #301 on: September 14, 2017, 08:41:57 pm »

Also not likely true...

In the build up for the LSU matchup, the analyst and prognosticators all said that even if Arkansas beat LSU, they would likely have stayed at 3rd.

LSU's average was so high that the projections showed even a loss wouldn't have dropped them past 2nd

If LSU had somehow dropped down below us, even for a week, Alabama would have played in the SEC championship game and ended up #1 and we would have likely been overtaken by either Oklahoma State or Stanford.

The only reason that didn't happen to Alabama is because they're, well...Alabama.

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HiggiePiggy

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #302 on: September 14, 2017, 09:20:28 pm »

Also not likely true...

In the build up for the LSU matchup, the analyst and prognosticators all said that even if Arkansas beat LSU, they would likely have stayed at 3rd.

LSU's average was so high that the projections showed even a loss wouldn't have dropped them past 2nd

If LSU had somehow dropped down below us, even for a week, Alabama would have played in the SEC championship game and ended up #1 and we would have likely been overtaken by either Oklahoma State or Stanford.

The only reason that didn't happen to Alabama is because they're, well...Alabama.



So who would have gone to the SEC championship game?  If Arkansas did then they would probably have beaten the team from the east that year and either played Alabama or LSU in the NC game.
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Piggfoot

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #303 on: September 14, 2017, 09:27:15 pm »

Nice dodge.  Here is what you said yesterday:

"Nutt managed, either through luck or other means, to get game changers. I think it was luck more than anything that MJ and Dmac & Hillis and Monk and a few others were born in AR and wanted to be Hogs regardless. Your point is valid though, for whatever reason, no one since has brought those kind of players here."

How do you explain 1959, 1960, 1961,1962, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1975, 1978, 1982, 1985, 1986, 1995, 1999, 2002? 

Where was Lance Alworth from?  Freddie Marshall?  Ronnie Caveness? Lloyd Phillips?  Bill Montgomery?  Chuck Dicus?  Joe Ferguson?  Ron Calcagni?  Greg Koch?  R.C Thielmann? Greg Kolenda?  Steve Korte? Dickey Morton? Ike Forte?  Kevin Scanlon?  Quin Grovey?  Clint Stoerner?  Ken Hamlin? Steve Little?  Jim Mabry?  Travis Swanson?  Cobi Hamilton?  I could go on.  During their best years Arkansas has inevitably relied upon out-of-state talent, mostly from Texas. 

I'll agree with you that Arkansas's success has in general risen and fallen with the crop of Arkansas players, but that is not always the case.  It also rises and falls with the quality of out-of-state talent, especially at QB, playing at the All-Conference and All-American level. 

You are simply going to stick to your schtick and we get that, but some of us will counter with the truth for the benefit of those who might buy in to it.
I am confused about this post. Lance Alworth was from Mississippi who came to Arkansas because Vaught would not allow married players on the Ole Miss team. Many of the others were from Texas except Forte and Hamilton. Also most listed played in the SWC. The recruiting of these players can't be used as a comparison to today's  recruiting.
In the SWC days before integration Arkansas could have been considered as much a part of. Texas as Texas Tech both being away from central Texas.  Arkansas played half of their confrence games in Texas allowing the parents of Texas players to see their sons often. It's not the same as today.
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BigE_23

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #304 on: September 14, 2017, 10:55:28 pm »

So who would have gone to the SEC championship game?  If Arkansas did then they would probably have beaten the team from the east that year and either played Alabama or LSU in the NC game.

In the event of a three way tie in which each of the teams had beaten each other, BCS standings would have determined that...which is why the prognosticators said our game vs LSU was essentially meaningless.

We could have beaten them and they still wouldn't have dropped below us in the BCS, and they or Bama would have still gotten into the SEC championship ahead of us. 

The tie-breaker has since changed because there's no more BcS.
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Cavtastic Voyage

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #305 on: September 14, 2017, 11:52:29 pm »

BB is gone at the end of the season, and then what, hire another coach and in 5 years when the results are an average of 7-8 wins a year ( which is our average since joining the sec, 25+ seasons ) I guess we will want that guy gone and try someone else?

Oh, and don't forget the new guy will probably be very different in offensive philosophy and will have to try to do that with the ball control type players on campus.

And no, this is not a keep BB thread. It is a why do you expect different results, over time, than any of the other coaches since joining the sec have provided.

Because most fans don't feel like average losers and don't want our football program to be average losers. I don't know how old you are but thats a pathetic defeatist attitude. That you accept mediocrity. I doesn't matter if we had the same record for 100 years, you keep trying. You try forever. Life is never good enough, and neither is our football program. If you feel any other way your not a real fan. The reason i comment on your age is because that sounds like some millennial acceptance attitude BS.
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razorbackinva

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #306 on: September 15, 2017, 12:05:10 am »

BB is gone at the end of the season, and then what, hire another coach and in 5 years when the results are an average of 7-8 wins a year ( which is our average since joining the sec, 25+ seasons ) I guess we will want that guy gone and try someone else?

Oh, and don't forget the new guy will probably be very different in offensive philosophy and will have to try to do that with the ball control type players on campus.

And no, this is not a keep BB thread. It is a why do you expect different results, over time, than any of the other coaches since joining the sec have provided.

Let's go for Chuck Pagano... He knows how to build an amazing defense and can recruit well.
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bphi11ips

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #307 on: September 15, 2017, 08:19:25 am »

I am confused about this post. Lance Alworth was from Mississippi who came to Arkansas because Vaught would not allow married players on the Ole Miss team. Many of the others were from Texas except Forte and Hamilton. Also most listed played in the SWC. The recruiting of these players can't be used as a comparison to today's  recruiting.
In the SWC days before integration Arkansas could have been considered as much a part of. Texas as Texas Tech both being away from central Texas.  Arkansas played half of their confrence games in Texas allowing the parents of Texas players to see their sons often. It's not the same as today.

Okay, but whether things are the same as they are today is not the issue.  Read the post I am replying to and consider HS' s long-standing assertion that Arkansas is only good when Arkansas produces a once-in-a-generation crop of football players.  If you remember or are familiar with the teams of the '59-'89 era then you know this is a crock.

I don't believe Texas is any less important or attainable as a recruiting territory than it ever was.  If it's not because we don't play as often therecas we once did, that is the best reason I can offer for switching to the Big 12.
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Hogwild

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #308 on: September 15, 2017, 08:25:20 am »

In the event of a three way tie in which each of the teams had beaten each other, BCS standings would have determined that...which is why the prognosticators said our game vs LSU was essentially meaningless.

We could have beaten them and they still wouldn't have dropped below us in the BCS, and they or Bama would have still gotten into the SEC championship ahead of us. 

The tie-breaker has since changed because there's no more BcS.


Correct, living in New Orleans, the sportscasters were saying that LSU need to win one more game to make it to the BCS championship game.  Either beat Arkansas or beat UGA in the SEC Championship game and they get a berth in the BCS title game.
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GuvHog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #309 on: September 15, 2017, 09:31:46 am »

In the event of a three way tie in which each of the teams had beaten each other, BCS standings would have determined that...which is why the prognosticators said our game vs LSU was essentially meaningless.

We could have beaten them and they still wouldn't have dropped below us in the BCS, and they or Bama would have still gotten into the SEC championship ahead of us. 

The tie-breaker has since changed because there's no more BcS.

Alabama was #2 and their loss at home to LSU occurred later in the year so a Hog win over LSU in Baton Rouge would have hurt the Crimson Tide. They would have dropped to #3 and the Hogs would have moved up to #2 putting them in the national title game. When a team travels to the home of the #1 ranked team in the nation and beats them, the polls reward them for it.

By the way, the BCS standings would not have determined which of the 3 teams went to the SEC Title game in Atlanta. The SEC has  a built in tie breaker for that. I believe the Hogs would have gone to Atlanta had they beaten LSU.
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BigE_23

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #310 on: September 15, 2017, 10:30:59 am »

Alabama was #2 and their loss at home to LSU occurred later in the year so a Hog win over LSU in Baton Rouge would have hurt the Crimson Tide. They would have dropped to #3 and the Hogs would have moved up to #2 putting them in the national title game. When a team travels to the home of the #1 ranked team in the nation and beats them, the polls reward them for it.

By the way, the BCS standings would not have determined which of the 3 teams went to the SEC Title game in Atlanta. The SEC has a built in tie breaker for that. I believe the Hogs would have gone to Atlanta had they beaten LSU.

That's a cool story bro...too bad none of it's true.
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HotlantaHog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #311 on: September 15, 2017, 10:42:56 am »

BB is gone at the end of the season, and then what, hire another coach and in 5 years when the results are an average of 7-8 wins a year ( which is our average since joining the sec, 25+ seasons ) I guess we will want that guy gone and try someone else?

Oh, and don't forget the new guy will probably be very different in offensive philosophy and will have to try to do that with the ball control type players on campus.

And no, this is not a keep BB thread. It is a why do you expect different results, over time, than any of the other coaches since joining the sec have provided.

After giving BB a chance, if he fails you move on to the next best contender:
1) Hire the best available head coach and maybe he will do well;
2) Hire a highly ranked successful coordinator and maybe he will do well;
3) Hire a great, under-the-radar assistant coach and maybe he will do well;
4) Hire a head coach or successful assistant from the NFL and maybe he will do well;
5) Hire the best young high school coach in the U.S. who is destined to be a college coach someday, and maybe he will do well.

Maybe none of those things will work. Or maybe you will discover the next Saban or Pete Carroll. If after 5 years there seems little likelihood that year six will be a lot different that the first five, you give somebody else a chance. Roll the dice. If it doesn't work, try again in another five years. What's the alternative?
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IronHog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #312 on: September 15, 2017, 10:54:34 am »

After giving BB a chance, if he fails you move on to the next best contender:
1) Hire the best available head coach and maybe he will do well;
2) Hire a highly ranked successful coordinator and maybe he will do well;
3) Hire a great, under-the-radar assistant coach and maybe he will do well;
4) Hire a head coach or successful assistant from the NFL and maybe he will do well;
5) Hire the best young high school coach in the U.S. who is destined to be a college coach someday, and maybe he will do well.

Maybe none of those things will work. Or maybe you will discover the next Saban or Pete Carroll. If after 5 years there seems little likelihood that year six will be a lot different that the first five, you give somebody else a chance. Roll the dice. If it doesn't work, try again in another five years. What's the alternative?


No alternative.  Leadership is everything


Fit is key.  Best coach is situation specific
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311Hog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #313 on: September 15, 2017, 10:58:52 am »

After giving BB a chance, if he fails you move on to the next best contender:
1) Hire the best available head coach and maybe he will do well;
2) Hire a highly ranked successful coordinator and maybe he will do well;
3) Hire a great, under-the-radar assistant coach and maybe he will do well;
4) Hire a head coach or successful assistant from the NFL and maybe he will do well;
5) Hire the best young high school coach in the U.S. who is destined to be a college coach someday, and maybe he will do well.

Maybe none of those things will work. Or maybe you will discover the next Saban or Pete Carroll. If after 5 years there seems little likelihood that year six will be a lot different that the first five, you give somebody else a chance. Roll the dice. If it doesn't work, try again in another five years. What's the alternative?
I believe the point is that everyone keeps focusing on the coach, and you just described that process. When maybe something or things else are the problem.

Its just a short sighted way of washing your problems away. 

WR didn't catch the ball - coach
Kicker bricked from the 20 - coach
OL being out physicalled  - coach

etc. etc. etc. People say that the "talent on this team" would win 9 games with some other "coach" which is pulled directly from the 6 hole because no one knows that.

Also i feel like i should preface every post i make with "i am not saying CBB should or shouldn't be fired" i am saying that for years, decades even it is all the coach, hire this coach replace this coach and as you said it is a roll of the dice, a very very very long shot roll don't we want to focus on something that either improves the odds ? or gives us more rolls ?
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Dominicanhog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #314 on: September 15, 2017, 12:07:23 pm »



WR didn't catch the ball - coach
Kicker bricked from the 20 - coach
OL being out physicalled  - coach





So who recruited those players and made the personnel decisions about the OL or those receivers or that kicker?  Who watches and teaches everyday.. who gets paid to make sure those problems are mitigated and put a product on the field worthy of their salary?
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hogsanity

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #315 on: September 15, 2017, 12:30:28 pm »


Also i feel like i should preface every post i make with "i am not saying CBB should or shouldn't be fired" i am saying that for years, decades even it is all the coach, hire this coach replace this coach and as you said it is a roll of the dice, a very very very long shot roll don't we want to focus on something that either improves the odds ? or gives us more rolls ?


Exactly the point I was making. At some point, when coach after coach produces about the same results, it become clear that the problems are not with the coach.

Alabama has had 3 different HC's win nc's. Miami has had 3 as well, iirc. Oklahoma, yep, 3. USC, again I believe the # is 3. Texas 2 for sure, not sure if Akers won a nc. You can't tell me that all of those were just schools who kept throwing out coaches every 5 years and got lucky 3 times each.
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IronHog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #316 on: September 15, 2017, 12:38:47 pm »

Exactly the point I was making. At some point, when coach after coach produces about the same results, it become clear that the problems are not with the coach.

Alabama has had 3 different HC's win nc's. Miami has had 3 as well, iirc. Oklahoma, yep, 3. USC, again I believe the # is 3. Texas 2 for sure, not sure if Akers won a nc. You can't tell me that all of those were just schools who kept throwing out coaches every 5 years and got lucky 3 times each.


And?


College NC is mostly mythical

No reason Arkansas can't have things like a functioning offensive line and fundamental tackling
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tzthib

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #317 on: September 15, 2017, 12:43:32 pm »

Okay, but whether things are the same as they are today is not the issue.  Read the post I am replying to and consider HS' s long-standing assertion that Arkansas is only good when Arkansas produces a once-in-a-generation crop of football players.  If you remember or are familiar with the teams of the '59-'89 era then you know this is a crock.

I don't believe Texas is any less important or attainable as a recruiting territory than it ever was.  If it's not because we don't play as often therecas we once did, that is the best reason I can offer for switching to the Big 12.

Being located in Texas hasn't really helped the University of Texas field a competitive football team in the past 5 years or so. If recruiting was the be-all and end-all of college football schools like UT would be contenders every year and Texas A&M should always been a tier 1 SEC team regardless of who their coaches or AD's are.
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hogsanity

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #318 on: September 15, 2017, 12:49:23 pm »


And?


College NC is mostly mythical

No reason Arkansas can't have things like a functioning offensive line and fundamental tackling

So now winning isn't the standard, since we've never come up with a hard definition of winning I am not surprised, but now it's how the teams plays.

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IronHog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #319 on: September 15, 2017, 12:52:40 pm »

So now winning isn't the standard, since we've never come up with a hard definition of winning I am not surprised, but now it's how the teams plays.




The only way UA can be a consistent top 5 program is to catch lightening in a bottle with the perfect coach.......UT and Nebraska are pretty average without legends at the helm.


However Arkansas can be a top 25 type program with just good coaching.  Thats 8-9 wins on average.  Sometimes more, sometimes less.
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IronHog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #320 on: September 15, 2017, 12:54:25 pm »

Being located in Texas hasn't really helped the University of Texas field a competitive football team in the past 5 years or so. If recruiting was the be-all and end-all of college football schools like UT would be contenders every year and Texas A&M should always been a tier 1 SEC team regardless of who their coaches or AD's are.


Texas based teams are off overall nationally compared to schools that mostly recruit Ca and the southeast


Too much spread
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hoglady

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #321 on: September 15, 2017, 01:01:27 pm »

A fresh start and hope that the next guy up can do a better job.

It sure beats what's happening right now.
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hogsanity

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #322 on: September 15, 2017, 01:03:16 pm »

A fresh start and hope that the next guy up can do a better job.

It sure beats what's happening right now.

hope and change? Think I head that somewhere before.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #323 on: September 15, 2017, 01:08:36 pm »

A fresh start and hope that the next guy up can do a better job.

It sure beats what's happening right now.

Recent history suggests that this program can do better.
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majp51

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #324 on: September 15, 2017, 01:27:15 pm »

BB is gone at the end of the season, and then what, hire another coach and in 5 years when the results are an average of 7-8 wins a year ( which is our average since joining the sec, 25+ seasons ) I guess we will want that guy gone and try someone else?

Oh, and don't forget the new guy will probably be very different in offensive philosophy and will have to try to do that with the ball control type players on campus.

And no, this is not a keep BB thread. It is a why do you expect different results, over time, than any of the other coaches since joining the sec have provided.

Hi Hogsanity, I would say the teams have to be exciting. The last exciting or electric team for Arkansas would have been CBP's last two season. Nothing is worse for a fan base than being truly average. Finishing 5-7 with either a dynamic offense , or a dynamic Defense is better for the fans than 7-5, even if 5-7 doesn't allow you to slip into a bowl game (Hello Mississippi State in 2016). The reason is that real dynamic D, or O, leaves you thinking not that you are a long way from contending but are only missing a couple of pieces for real greatness.

CBP could have had some middling seasons after that super recruiting class that included Mallett, Wilson and our trio of great WR's, because he had a dynamic Offense, and had caught lightning in a bottle 2 times.

So it's not so much the win rate that needs to change, but hope. You need a coach who has pedigree with an electric offense or dominating Defense. Shoot at this point, even though SMU has been < meh > , someone like Chad Morris would be a significant improvement. Yes a vocal minority would still complain, thanks to the internet you will always have someone who would complain even if Arkansas won the.Playoff under new coach (x).

But having something that gives you hope is what this is all about. Now in order to keep hope alive that coach has to catch lightning in a bottle by year 5 (which based on CBP doesn't even mean winning the SEC), and you have to keep winning on average at least that 7.5 wins per season.

So if you have systems like CBB, you need to average probably 9 wins. If you generate something consistently exciting on the field, then 7-7.5 would probably be ok.
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311Hog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #325 on: September 15, 2017, 01:34:55 pm »

So who recruited those players and made the personnel decisions about the OL or those receivers or that kicker?  Who watches and teaches everyday.. who gets paid to make sure those problems are mitigated and put a product on the field worthy of their salary?

Sorry man but you cannot force a kid to eat right, sleep right, lift right, play right.  You can't force a kid to be better than they want to be themselves or give them more talent than they have.  Sure someone would say that is the very definition of a coach and to an extent i agree, but as has been said the treadmill of Players coaches, disciplinarian coaches, CEO coaches, defensive offensive etc. i believe Arkansas has tried them all and yet consistent as the north star we are basically the same give or take a win here a loss there.

I mean how many OL coaches has CBB had? Defensive? i mean do we haven't we changed them every 2 years ? product on the field still relatively the same strange how that works.

Lots of things go into this that the coach has nothing to do with, but they are the face and the big pay check and as we have all seen the fall guy for failure.
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bphi11ips

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #326 on: September 15, 2017, 01:43:26 pm »

Exactly the point I was making. At some point, when coach after coach produces about the same results, it become clear that the problems are not with the coach.

Alabama has had 3 different HC's win nc's. Miami has had 3 as well, iirc. Oklahoma, yep, 3. USC, again I believe the # is 3. Texas 2 for sure, not sure if Akers won a nc. You can't tell me that all of those were just schools who kept throwing out coaches every 5 years and got lucky 3 times each.

Either you don't know college football history or you are ignoring it.  Miami is a perfect example of a school that never did diddly squat until the right coach came along and branded it as a hot commodity.  So is Florida.  Is that due to changing demographics?  Maybe to some extent, but it was also due to Howard Schnellenberger and Jimmy Johnson at Miami and Steve Spurrier at Florida. 

Once Johnson established "The U" brand in the 80's, it carried Miami forward through three more coaches until it fizzled out with Larry Coker.  "The U" hasn't won 10 games or been to a "major" bowl in thirteen years.  Miami's success since it began football in 1927 has been almost entirely confined to the twenty years between 1983 and 2003.

Florida is a similar example.  It was an SEC also-ran until Spurrier ignited the program in 1990.  Florida had no where near the tradition at that time that Arkansas had.  Even with the success that Spurrier had from 1990 to 2001 and Urban Meyer had from 2005 to 2010, Florida comes in only one slot ahead of Arkansas in AP's 2017 list of the top college football programs of all time.  Ron Zook went 8-5, 8-5, and 7-5 in three seasons between Spurrier and Meyer, and Muschamp went 7-6, 11-2, 4-8, and 7-5 after Meyer.  It remains to be seen whether McElwain is Meyer or Muschamp, but Florida fans aren't too happy after the butt whipping Michigan delivered a couple of weeks ago. 

Alabama won one national championship between 1979 and 2009 (Gene Stallings in 1992).  It finished 12 of those seasons unranked and finished outside the top 10 twenty times.  The Crimson Tide went through 6 coaches between Bear Bryant and Nick Saban - an average of one every 5 years.

John McKay, John Robinson and Pete Carroll were uber successful at USC.  McKay and Robinson also had some so-so teams.  Ever hear of Ted Tollner?  Larry Smith?  Paul Hackett?  If not it's probably because those guys coached a bunch of mediocre USC teams between or around McKay, Robinson and Carroll.  Kiffin, Sarkisian and Helton haven't exactly lit up the Top 10, the BSC or the playoffs. 

Barry Switzer won 3 Nattys at OU before retiring in 1988.  OU then went through three coaches before hiring Bob Stoops and didn't win more than 9 games for 13 years.  It had 3 losing seasons and 2 .500 seasons during that stretch.  It finished in the Top 20 only 3 times - two 16s and a 17.

See how this works?         
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 05:00:26 pm by bphi11ips »
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311Hog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #327 on: September 15, 2017, 01:51:40 pm »

so approx 10 programs about 20 men and 40 years. compared to everyone else do you see the statistical issue here?

So your sayin theres a chance....
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bphi11ips

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #328 on: September 15, 2017, 01:53:59 pm »

Being located in Texas hasn't really helped the University of Texas field a competitive football team in the past 5 years or so. If recruiting was the be-all and end-all of college football schools like UT would be contenders every year and Texas A&M should always been a tier 1 SEC team regardless of who their coaches or AD's are.

Being located in Texas doesn't help Texas Southern much either, apparently.

You're right, though, recruiting is just part of it, albeit a big part.  Regardless, Arkansas has relied upon Texas recruits as long as I've been following the Razorbacks.  Because of its physical location, the population of the Dallas metroplex, the immense popularity of high school football in that area, and the sheer number of students attending the University of Arkansas from Texas, it will always be a critical key to the Hogs' success. 
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Dominicanhog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #329 on: September 15, 2017, 02:53:35 pm »

Sorry man but you cannot force a kid to eat right, sleep right, lift right, play right.  You can't force a kid to be better than they want to be themselves or give them more talent than they have.  Sure someone would say that is the very definition of a coach and to an extent i agree, but as has been said the treadmill of Players coaches, disciplinarian coaches, CEO coaches, defensive offensive etc. i believe Arkansas has tried them all and yet consistent as the north star we are basically the same give or take a win here a loss there.

I mean how many OL coaches has CBB had? Defensive? i mean do we haven't we changed them every 2 years ? product on the field still relatively the same strange how that works.

Lots of things go into this that the coach has nothing to do with, but they are the face and the big pay check and as we have all seen the fall guy for failure.

I'll have to use your words.. that is the very definition coaching.. in my book... blaming players is easier than blaming coaches because they are the ones at the point of attack and easily seen.... but the selection, grooming and putting them in position to succeed is the very essence of coaching...

Somebody posted a list of NFL players, or close to it, that have been at Arkansas since CBB arrived.. the number of good players doesn't equate to the victory total.. in my opinion...
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jst01

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #330 on: September 15, 2017, 04:02:16 pm »

don't we want to focus on something that either improves the odds ? or gives us more rolls ?

Sure. What is your idea?  What can be changed that will have a real effect on the program? What do you suggest the focus be?  And it needs to be something that is practical and possible. Not having the U of A revamp the entire AR high school budget issues, etc.

Changing a coach lets you put in a new philosophy, maybe new culture, hopefully upgrades recruiting (always the goal at least), new leadership, etc.  You can get the most results from one single change when you put a new coach in charge, if its the right coach. 
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GuvHog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #331 on: September 15, 2017, 04:57:31 pm »

That's a cool story bro...too bad none of it's true.

It's all true. You've been proven wrong. Just accept it and move on.
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majp51

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #332 on: September 15, 2017, 06:09:27 pm »

Sure. What is your idea?  What can be changed that will have a real effect on the program? What do you suggest the focus be?  And it needs to be something that is practical and possible. Not having the U of A revamp the entire AR high school budget issues, etc.

Changing a coach lets you put in a new philosophy, maybe new culture, hopefully upgrades recruiting (always the goal at least), new leadership, etc.  You can get the most results from one single change when you put a new coach in charge, if its the right coach. 

Chad Morris Springs to mind. I mean he's done fairly decent at SMU, considering that it is SMU. And he would bring an understanding of needing to get Texas recruits, and a High Octane Offense. The best part is, that unlike an established coach we don't have to sign him up to what is an effectively fire-proof contract for 5 years.

Or How about at least seeing if Brent Venables is interested in being a head coach?

Those a both decent possibilities and one brings a high octane offense, the other brings a history of nasty Defenses.
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hoglady

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #333 on: September 15, 2017, 06:26:00 pm »

hope and change? Think I head that somewhere before.

That's what you've got with any new coach.
 
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WorfHog

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #334 on: September 15, 2017, 08:41:16 pm »

BB is gone at the end of the season, and then what, hire another coach and in 5 years when the results are an average of 7-8 wins a year ( which is our average since joining the sec, 25+ seasons ) I guess we will want that guy gone and try someone else?

Oh, and don't forget the new guy will probably be very different in offensive philosophy and will have to try to do that with the ball control type players on campus.

And no, this is not a keep BB thread. It is a why do you expect different results, over time, than any of the other coaches since joining the sec have provided.

Please stop posting you giant hypocrite.

You'll spend all of basketball season railing against CMA (arguably the most successful coach on campus last year). You can say the exact thing about CMA in Jump Ball.

AD's fire coaches for poor performance/behavior and then you evaluate the new coach on his merits. It's not rocket science. I swear half of you guys must work for the government and have a job for life.
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hogsanity

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Re: And then what?????
« Reply #335 on: September 17, 2017, 07:13:13 pm »

Please stop posting you giant hypocrite.

You'll spend all of basketball season railing against CMA (arguably the most successful coach on campus last year). You can say the exact thing about CMA in Jump Ball.

AD's fire coaches for poor performance/behavior and then you evaluate the new coach on his merits. It's not rocket science. I swear half of you guys must work for the government and have a job for life.

If that's true, at least this half has a job.

CMA was not as successful as DVH, who was in a league tougher in his sport than was either CMA or BB in their's.
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