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Author Topic: recruiting bigs for women's BB  (Read 1279 times)

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flippinhogmana

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recruiting bigs for women's BB
« on: May 31, 2017, 10:02:40 am »

At present we have a lot of three/four types and have more coming.  It also looks like we are in good position for our number two instate player for next year, who also falls in that category (but who is nationally ranked as the 59 best overall player).

All that is good, but we need two bigs (6-4/5) in next years class.
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flippinhogmana

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 10:24:42 am »

Here are the best prospects out there that are unsigned.

Nat Rank  Name                 Espn Score Pos     Ht.             School
3   Olivia Nelson-Ododa    98        P    6-4      Winder-Barrow H.S. (GA) (five star)
42   Stephanie Soares         92            P    6-6      Home School (TX)  (four star)
41   Valencia Myers            92             P    6-3      Solon H.S. (OH) (four star)
48   Semaj Smith            92             P    6-5      St. Anthony H.S. (CA) (four star)
14   Queen Egbo            96             p    6-2             Travis H.S. (TX) (five star)
58   Olivia Owens            91             P    6-4      Niskayuna H.S. (NY) (four star)

I dont think we have much of a shot with the girl from New York, but we might have a better shot with the rest of them.  Egbo, despite her height would be a good fit also.

In amending this I should point out that Myers, Semaj Smith and Queen Egbo are rated higher on Prospects Nation than they are on Espn HoopGurlz.  Egbo is also listed at 6-3 instead of 6-3.


« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 01:55:12 pm by flippinhogmana »
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psycHOGlogist

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 11:49:01 am »

We are not in Nelson-Ododa's final group of 12 schools, which should come as no surprise. She has been ranked as high at the #1 player in the nation at various times.

https://twitter.com/OliviaKNelson/status/856630244777885697

Prospectsnation has Nalyssa Smith (6'3 F, TX) as their #4 player overall, just to add a name to this good list. (And interestiongly, PN doesn't rank Soares in its top 100 - has her all the way down at 134! Wonder if that's a visibility/AAU/home-school thing?) However, PN says that Nalyssa Smith has three favorites, TTU (!), Texas, and Ohio St.

However, I think that it will take something of a miracle for us to get in on one of these elite bigs for 2018. They've been looking around for a while and likely narrowed their focus before this spring. 

Myers, Smith, Egbo, and Owens don't report any favorites on PN (fwiw). ESPN says that Myers is considering Kentucky, Louisville, and Ohio State.

To flippin's list I would add three names --

Kassidy DeLapp, a 6'4" kid from California. Probably will stay west coast, but was looking at UW when Mike was there.

Jessika Carter, a 6'4" kid from western Georgia

and

Elizabeth Dixon, the 6'4" post from TN who is currently committed to GA Tech and plays AAU with the Arkansas Banshees. I think Neighbors would be crazy not to try to poach this kid. One down side is that her family is of Nigerian descent, and they have talked about how cool it will be for Liz to have contact with the sizeble Nigerian community in Atlanta.

Just throwing names out there.
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flippinhogmana

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 12:06:02 pm »

I like more names!  Thanks Psych!  At first blush I would give us zero chance with any of them, but then, coaches make a difference; particularly if a coach has had prior contact with some of these players.  Ordinarily I would also give us zero chance at California girls too.  I am hoping that Golden has contacts in the upper midwest and midwest, maybe with some of them like the girl from Ohio.

But then two things, Neighbors possible previous contact with them, and the fact that our softball coaching staff has ties there reshapes that dynamic.  Its also good to have a 'homie' at your new school, even if she plays a different sport. 
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hawg1221

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 12:13:36 pm »

I see a lot of nice highly ranked players on that list.  But do we really know how good of a recruiter CMN is? I know he did well with the transfers this year in a short period of time. I'm still curious.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 12:14:53 pm »

Thanks for the recruiting scoop.  Curious to know if we have any ties to these ladies?  Unless we do I suspect our coaches might have to go JUCO, transfers or a under the radar HS BIG who is more of a project.

I maybe wrong but in ladies BB I just do not think there are many 6'3+ ladies that are really good coming out of HS.  So evaluation will be very critical. 
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hawg1221

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 12:53:13 pm »

I agree. You get a good 6'3" player that's athletic and can shoot, you're probably ranked.
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psycHOGlogist

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 01:04:17 pm »

I agree. Neighbors had great success at UW with an undersized, wide-body post player in Chantel Osahor (listed at 6'2", but probably closer to 6').

One 2019 kid that I know Neighbors is looking at -- and whose video really reminds me Osahor's -- is Destinee Oberg, a 6'3"-ish kid (prolly still growing) out of Minnesota. Not sure whether she's interested in the Hogs, but she was looking at UW.

Not sure we want to wait until 2019 to get a big, though. ;-)
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nwahogfan1

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 01:46:44 pm »

I have always said it is not how tall you are but how tall you play so if we can sign a wide body lady over 6'+ who knows how to use her frame and be physical with the attitude that she wants every rebound then I really think it will work.  Maybe will not get too many block shots but  I think the right 6"+ can play well down low.
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flippinhogmana

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 02:01:53 pm »

I have always said it is not how tall you are but how tall you play so if we can sign a wide body lady over 6'+ who knows how to use her frame and be physical with the attitude that she wants every rebound then I really think it will work.  Maybe will not get too many block shots but  I think the right 6"+ can play well down low.

UW also had a 6-3 player who was pretty good (Collier, also a senior).
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LadybackBBFan

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 06:18:42 pm »

UW also had a 6-3 player who was pretty good (Collier, also a senior).

But Osahor was the leading rebounder in the country if I am not mistaken.  Arkansas has had only a few players taller than 6'3" and none of them have panned out.  Give me desire and athletic ability over 6' and you can compete - especially if you got more than one of them.
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psycHOGlogist

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2017, 06:23:29 pm »

I agree with that, LBBBF, but where I think the lack of size hurts is defending big posts down low. Even Osahor struggled mightily with that, notably against McGowan in the Sweet 16 game against Mississippi St. McGowan basically had her way down low because UW had no one who could keep her away from the basket or trouble her shot.

But when it comes to rebounding, yes - all about heart and effort.
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flippinhogmana

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2017, 07:10:48 pm »

But Osahor was the leading rebounder in the country if I am not mistaken.  Arkansas has had only a few players taller than 6'3" and none of them have panned out.  Give me desire and athletic ability over 6' and you can compete - especially if you got more than one of them.

psycHOGlogist
I agree with that, LBBBF, but where I think the lack of size hurts is defending big posts down low. Even Osahor struggled mightily with that, notably against McGowan in the Sweet 16 game against Mississippi St. McGowan basically had her way down low because UW had no one who could keep her away from the basket or trouble her shot.

I agree with both posts, but I don want to remember one exception to the point that LBBF made- Former Kodak All-American Delmonica DeHorney, a 6-4 player that was pretty darn good and I believe still has several Arkansas records.

As far as Psych's point about Osahor and McGowan-she publicly said that not keeping McGowan in check was her fault.  I have to disagree with her taking responsibility for that.  She gave it her whole heart, soul and will, but she also was giving up five inches.  You can only ask so much of the valiant before its no longer their fault when they fail.  Collier who was 6-3 couldn't handle McGowan either even when they were both in the game.  I believe if memory serves me right Collier got in foul trouble quickly even with the both of them in the game. 

And with respect to rebounders, most often the leading rebounders are power forwards, not centers (which was essentially Osahor's position most of the time).  I could think of quite a few examples of that.   
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flippinhogmana

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2017, 07:55:28 pm »

another honorable mention is Sarah Watkins-who was 6-3 and recruited as a forward-was pretty good.  She wound up playing center most of her career because we never got the center to go with her.  Still she had a good career here even if I think it would have been better if Tom had been able to get a bookend for her and turn her loose at power forward.  Most of the time she was outmatched at the five spot on defense, and she wouldn't have been so much if she had been playing the four.
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flippinhogmana

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2017, 03:16:05 am »

Whether we wish it or not next year we will have Thomas (6-1-2 and long armed, agile and active but a freshman), Williams (also 6-1ish, and active and a sophomore that was too foul prone last year) and Weaver (6-3 but who has not played against the level of competition that Thomas and Williams have) at the 4/5 positions.  To that mix you can add Swenson (6-1 and long with an outside shot) and maybe Stout (6-0 but with very little game time experience).

For the most part I think that those five will man the four and five spots.  I wouldn't be surprised to have Williams and Thomas starting at 4 and five respectively or vice versa, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see Swenson get the nod the majority of the time at the four.  I think Weaver will work her way into the rotation, especially if one or both of them is ineffective, off, or in foul trouble. 

If MM and DC can manage the 1 and 2 effectively most of the time (with relieve from Mason) then that leaves the 3 to account for and man (well woman in this case) effectively, and productively.  Those three MM, CD and Mason may all play a majority of the time with CD at the 3, but look for Zimmer and the new JC transfer guard to fill in (the 5-7 guard hopefully backing up the 5-5 Monk effectively) and Zimmer filling in at both the 2 and 3 as needed. 

I think they will be scrappy, and I think that if they can shoot lights out, they will give all but the best, tallest teams a fight most every night.  Guard play will be essential even more importantly on defense, since the 6-1 post players can't take on bigger players toe to toe on every play all game long.  Denying the interior passes, and steals by the guards, but overplaying by the forwards, too, will probably be the order of the day, I think a lot of match up zones will be seen a lot too.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of pressing as a full court defensive strategy before getting down to half court defense.  Either way I will be rooting them on every game.

How about it Coach, Psych, and you others, how do you guys see it shaping up?
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LadybackBBFan

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2017, 10:20:07 am »

Flippin, not a bad analysis.  As you indicate Weaver is an unknow.  I expect Williams and Swenson to start at the 4 & 5 initially.  However, they will need plenty of substitutions..  Stout will be used as a 3 point specialist in relief of Swenson.  As the freshmen develop who knows.  I expect Monk and Mason at the 1 & 2 - with major improvement from Mason with good coaching.  I expect Cosper to bounce back this year and start at the three with Zimmerman pushing her.  If the new JC transfer can work her way into the lineup - she will play at the 1 &/or 2 as a sub, if not Zimmerman will play more at the 3 with Cosper dropping down there when Monk and Mason need substitutions.
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flippinhogmana

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2017, 11:22:09 am »

Flippin, not a bad analysis.  As you indicate Weaver is an unknow.  I expect Williams and Swenson to start at the 4 & 5 initially.  However, they will need plenty of substitutions..  Stout will be used as a 3 point specialist in relief of Swenson.  As the freshmen develop who knows.  I expect Monk and Mason at the 1 & 2 - with major improvement from Mason with good coaching.  I expect Cosper to bounce back this year and start at the three with Zimmerman pushing her.  If the new JC transfer can work her way into the lineup - she will play at the 1 &/or 2 as a sub, if not Zimmerman will play more at the 3 with Cosper dropping down there when Monk and Mason need substitutions.

you are probably right about mason and monk at one and two (I included that as an option) with Cosper at the 3, but Lordy that puts us short! Maybe in size, but still tall in heart?  It would put our best players on the court though.  Zimmermann probably improved most of all the players last year, or maybe she just didnt let the distractions get to her as much as some of the rest did.  Hopefully she will push whoever seems to be our best 3 baller wing.  But I think Swenson that shoot the three pretty good and I think Cosper can too.  Zimmer might also be a defensive specialist on some players.  As I recall she didnt back down too much last year in that role. 

As I recall Kiara got better at staying out of foul trouble as the year went on, I hope the same is even more true this year. 
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psycHOGlogist

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2017, 03:57:32 pm »

Whether we wish it or not next year we will have Thomas (6-1-2 and long armed, agile and active but a freshman), Williams (also 6-1ish, and active and a sophomore that was too foul prone last year) and Weaver (6-3 but who has not played against the level of competition that Thomas and Williams have) at the 4/5 positions.  To that mix you can add Swenson (6-1 and long with an outside shot) and maybe Stout (6-0 but with very little game time experience).

For the most part I think that those five will man the four and five spots.  I wouldn't be surprised to have Williams and Thomas starting at 4 and five respectively or vice versa, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see Swenson get the nod the majority of the time at the four.  I think Weaver will work her way into the rotation, especially if one or both of them is ineffective, off, or in foul trouble. 

If MM and DC can manage the 1 and 2 effectively most of the time (with relieve from Mason) then that leaves the 3 to account for and man (well woman in this case) effectively, and productively.  Those three MM, CD and Mason may all play a majority of the time with CD at the 3, but look for Zimmer and the new JC transfer guard to fill in (the 5-7 guard hopefully backing up the 5-5 Monk effectively) and Zimmer filling in at both the 2 and 3 as needed. 

I think they will be scrappy, and I think that if they can shoot lights out, they will give all but the best, tallest teams a fight most every night.  Guard play will be essential even more importantly on defense, since the 6-1 post players can't take on bigger players toe to toe on every play all game long.  Denying the interior passes, and steals by the guards, but overplaying by the forwards, too, will probably be the order of the day, I think a lot of match up zones will be seen a lot too.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of pressing as a full court defensive strategy before getting down to half court defense.  Either way I will be rooting them on every game.

How about it Coach, Psych, and you others, how do you guys see it shaping up?


I'm not especially good at player evaluation or strategy, so I don't have nearly the amount to contribute that you and LBBBF do. But here are my quick thoughts:

Monk and Mason are both good. Monk needs to spend a lot of time working on the consistency of her shot/finishing, and Mason needs to up her defense considerably. Cosper, too, needs to find consistency with her shot.

If we rely on Zimmerman to do anything besides catch and shoot and scrap for boards, we'll be in trouble. She doesn't have the handles to bring the ball up or the athleticism to play SEC defense, but I would put her "want to" on the defensive boards up against anyone. And she is a good shooter when she doesn't have to put the ball on the floor.

Swenson is sort of an X-factor to me. At times last year she couldn't miss, but other times she looked frustrated and a bit lost. I think we need to decide on a role for her and let her focus on it, whatever it is. She is going to be a defensive liability, too, I think, in any defense that's not a zone.

Williams will be a great test case for how well Neighbors can coach. She has good athleticism and potential but needs to develop some strategies for playing defense that don't include fouling. Jhas Bowen should be her role model, imo.

I honestly don't expect much of anything from the newcomers. Ideally Weaver would redshirt and put on some bulk, but that won't be possible, I'm guessing. Whatever minutes/spare fouls we can get out of her would be fantastic. Don't expect Spangler to contribute much except minutes of hustle on defense.

Can the staff create ways for us to score? That's my biggest question.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2017, 11:16:04 am »

At present we have a lot of three/four types and have more coming.  It also looks like we are in good position for our number two instate player for next year, who also falls in that category (but who is nationally ranked as the 59 best overall player).

All that is good, but we need two bigs (6-4/5) in next years class.

I keep hoping to hear about a 6'3+ low post graduate transfer who can now.   I would even like a wide body 6 footer.  Even if only a good off the bench role player.   I guess that isn't happening?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 12:34:31 pm by nwahogfan1 »
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brs_hogfan

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2017, 12:53:22 pm »

At present we have a lot of three/four types and have more coming.  It also looks like we are in good position for our number two instate player for next year, who also falls in that category (but who is nationally ranked as the 59 best overall player).

All that is good, but we need two bigs (6-4/5) in next years class.

I hope you are right about being in good position for recruiting Yo'myris Morris.  I was impressed with her last  high school season.  She is a heck of a rebounder and a very good athlete.  But what provides you that optimism i.e. that we are in good position?  I have not seen any indication good or bad.
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flippinhogmana

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2017, 01:59:20 pm »

I hope you are right about being in good position for recruiting Yo'myris Morris.  I was impressed with her last  high school season.  She is a heck of a rebounder and a very good athlete.  But what provides you that optimism i.e. that we are in good position?  I have not seen any indication good or bad.

Morris has had the hogs listed as one of her schools of interest for some time and I have always felt different about her interest than I did about Williams.  I read a lot about especially Williams a long time ago and in reading the tenor of her comments I always felt her interests were out of state.  I dont feel the same applies to Morris.  I think she comes here.

I did the same research on Danberry, Jackson and the other highly ranked player that went to Rutgers (Tyler Scaife).  I never felt the Rutgers player was coming here (I rated our chances with her at no better than 25 per cent), I felt we had about a fifty fifty chance with Jackson, and I felt we had about a 75 per cent or better chance with Danberry.  It all comes down to their sentiments on how attached they are to their state and their sentiments expressed about it. 

You can build as big a fence as you want, or work as hard as you want, but if a player sees themselves as operating on a bigger stage than they perceive that you can offer them, then you dont have much of a shot with them.  The Rutgers player had the additional challenge of already having formed a personal relationship with the Rutgers coach that we weren't likely to be able to overcome.  I think even if Scaife had come here, she would have transferred out even before Danberry (who I always said I thought would transfer out the end of her freshman year, why she waited until later has also puzzled me because she was truly disillusioned and feed up by the end of the first semester).
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 03:13:25 pm by flippinhogmana »
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brs_hogfan

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2017, 02:57:12 pm »

Morris has had the hogs listed as one of her schools of interest for some time and I have always felt different about her interest than I did about Williams.  I read a lot about especially Williams a long time ago and in reading the tenor of her comments I always felt her interests were out of state.  I dont feel the same applies to Morris.  I think she comes here.

I did the same research on Danberry, Jackson and the other highly ranked player that went to Rutgers Tyler Scaife).  I never felt the Rutgers player was coming here (I rated out chances with her at no better than 25 per cent), I felt we had about a fifty fifty chance with Jackson, and I felt we had about a 75 per cent or better chance with Danberry.  It all comes down to their sentiments on how attached they are to their state and their sentiments expressed about it. 

You can build as big a fence as you want, or work as hard as you want, but if a player sees themselves as operating on a bigger stage than you perceive that you can offer them, then you dont have much of a shot with them.  The Rutgers player had the additional challenge of already having formed a personal relationship with the Rutgers coach that we weren't likely to be able to overcome.  I think even if Scaife had come here, she would have transferred out even before Danberry (who I always said I thought would transfer out the end of her freshman year, why she waited until later has also puzzled me because she was truly disillusioned and feed up by the end of the first semester).

Thanks for filling in some details on your thinking.  Coincidentally, I just stumbled on this article published today talking about our interest in Morris and other NLR players ... http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2017/jun/08/neighbors-and-others-expected-spend-considerable-t/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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flippinhogmana

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Re: recruiting bigs for women's BB
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2017, 03:09:58 pm »

Thanks for filling in some details on your thinking.  Coincidentally, I just stumbled on this article published today talking about our interest in Morris and other NLR players ... http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2017/jun/08/neighbors-and-others-expected-spend-considerable-t/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

As you might expect I draw special attention to the fact that they both (Morris and the guard, Tucker) cited their home state interest!  I would say we have an excellent chance (better than 50 per cent with her as well).  I was also interested in the 6-4 girl as you might expect!  Thanks for sharing.
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