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Author Topic: PGA says no more armchair rules officials. About time but too late for Lexi..  (Read 384 times)

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Boarcephus

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majestic

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Good.
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GolfNut57

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Great move.
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joeyself

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I didn't have a problem so much with the calls from viewers as I did how the signing of the "wrong" scorecard was handled.

But then, I don't have a problem with this new policy, either.

JcS
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Boarcephus

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I didn't have a problem so much with the calls from viewers as I did how the signing of the "wrong" scorecard was handled.

But then, I don't have a problem with this new policy, either.

JcS

I've got a problem with call in rules officials.  You don't see it in any other sport.  Not one time has a football, baseball or bb game been over turned by some jerk watching tv and saw something the officials missed. Add to the fact if you're not in the hunt you get no air time so they don't know if you cheated or not and that's not fair to the leaders.  I'd wager  this jerk who called in on Lexi doesn't have a lot of friends because he's a nitpicking prick.  I'll step down off my soapbox now.  ;) 
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GolfNut57

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I've got a problem with call in rules officials.  You don't see it in any other sport.  Not one time has a football, baseball or bb game been over turned by some jerk watching tv and saw something the officials missed. Add to the fact if you're not in the hunt you get no air time so they don't know if you cheated or not and that's not fair to the leaders.  I'd wager  this jerk who called in on Lexi doesn't have a lot of friends because he's a nitpicking prick.

Bazinga!
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Jackrabbit Hog

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I've got a problem with call in rules officials.  You don't see it in any other sport.  Not one time has a football, baseball or bb game been over turned by some jerk watching tv and saw something the officials missed. Add to the fact if you're not in the hunt you get no air time so they don't know if you cheated or not and that's not fair to the leaders.  I'd wager  this jerk who called in on Lexi doesn't have a lot of friends because he's a nitpicking prick.  I'll step down off my soapbox now.  ;)

If Lexi is still upset about it, I'll offer my shoulder for her to cry on.  And my other body parts too.
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Boarcephus

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If Lexi is still upset about it, I'll offer my shoulder for her to cry on.  And my other body parts too.

LOL and you would not be alone to offer her similar services!    What happened to her was just flat out wrong and the same thing almost happened to DJ.  I guess there has been such an outcry over these viewers calling in they put a stop to it. 
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GolfNut57

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Michael Collins comments on this starting at the 52 second mark are hilarious.

http://www.espn.com/golf/
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hog of steele

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Comparing golf call officiating to baseball, basketball or just about anything else is silly. These aren't judgement calls. And this isn't a fast paced game played team against team. Golf is just different. If they don't take the calls, that is fine too. They should probably just employ more officials to let the players know if they are cheating.
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joeyself

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Comparing golf call officiating to baseball, basketball or just about anything else is silly. These aren't judgement calls. And this isn't a fast paced game played team against team. Golf is just different. If they don't take the calls, that is fine too. They should probably just employ more officials to let the players know if they are cheating.

True, to a point.  There are rule violations in the other sports that aren't judgment calls, but the difference is the score can't be adjusted after the fact as it can be in golf. 

But as I said, I'm fine with whatever they do, so long as everyone is playing by the same rules.

JcS
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kingofdequeen

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EastTex wept.
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kingofdequeen

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Comparing golf call officiating to baseball, basketball or just about anything else is silly. These aren't judgement calls. And this isn't a fast paced game played team against team. Golf is just different. If they don't take the calls, that is fine too. They should probably just employ more officials to let the players know if they are cheating.

that's what the other players are for.   play golf much?

Players police themselves like crazy....google "Billy Playfair".   
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hog of steele

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that's what the other players are for.   play golf much?

Players police themselves like crazy....google "Billy Playfair".

I get that this is how it works as a gentlman's game. But when you are playing for millions maybe we should use some real officials to make some official calls. Maybe trusting in the character of tiger woods isn't the best bet.
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kingofdequeen

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I get that this is how it works as a gentlman's game. But when you are playing for millions maybe we should use some real officials to make some official calls. Maybe trusting in the character of tiger woods isn't the best bet.

gentleman's game my ass.   They're ruthless and basically ostracize anyone that they think cheat.   Patrick Reed, Vijay, Billy Mayfair, etc.....  pretty much gets them zero friends overnight.
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kingofdequeen

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also, please don't misinterpret my inclusion of Reed's name as a sign of disdain.   He's my guy.    but it doesn't wipe away his history.
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hog of steele

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gentleman's game my ass.   They're ruthless and basically ostracize anyone that they think cheat.   Patrick Reed, Vijay, Billy Mayfair, etc.....  pretty much gets them zero friends overnight.

So no golfers will hang out with them, but they win lots of tournaments and have hundreds of millions of dollars. I am not sure that the punishment is enough. And its super easy to stick some actual officials out there.
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Boarcephus

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gentleman's game my ass.   They're ruthless and basically ostracize anyone that they think cheat.   Patrick Reed, Vijay, Billy Mayfair, etc.....  pretty much gets them zero friends overnight.

I had heard that said about Vijay but not Reed.
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Jackrabbit Hog

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I had heard that said about Vijay but not Reed.

Reed does have a history.  And he cares not whether anyone likes him or not. 

That's what makes him such a great Ryder Cupper.
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hog of steele

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That's what makes him such a great Ryder Cupper.

Willingness to cheat?
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Willingness to cheat?

Duh.  No.  Caring not what others think of him.
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hog of steele

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Duh.  No.  Caring not what others think of him.

That's to bad. Based on my playing of put-put I would say that cheating is my best golf technique.
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Boarcephus

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That's what makes him such a great Ryder Cupper.

That he is. 
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GolfNut57

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So no golfers will hang out with them, but they win lots of tournaments and have hundreds of millions of dollars. I am not sure that the punishment is enough. And its super easy to stick some actual officials out there.

So if they started using "actual" officials would the penalty flag thrown for violations be red.....yellow......or GREEN?  ;)
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GolfNut57

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That's to bad. Based on my playing of put-put I would say that cheating is my best golf technique.

I'll bite...how do you cheat at putt putt? Skip the windmill hole and call it a par?
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hog of steele

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I'll bite...how do you cheat at putt putt? Skip the windmill hole and call it a par?

LOL. Mostly you don't count the kicks as strokes. There might be some occasional sabotage as well. What is the stroke penalty for maliciously moving an opponent's ball?
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Boarcephus

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I'll bite...how do you cheat at putt putt? Skip the windmill hole and call it a par?

LOL!!!  +1!  :)  I needed a laugh today and this provided it. 
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hog of steele

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So if they started using "actual" officials would the penalty flag thrown for violations be red.....yellow......or GREEN?  ;)

:)
I readily admit that I don't know much about golf. I really only watched when tiger was playing. That dude made golf exciting.

I do seem to remember that there were people on the course you could ask about the rules, drop zones and what not. I think its just a question of empowering them to step in and tell a guy when he is about to do the wrong thing. That seems simple to me but maybe its more complex than that.
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kingofdequeen

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:)
I readily admit that I don't know much about golf. I really only watched when tiger was playing. That dude made golf exciting.

I do seem to remember that there were people on the course you could ask about the rules, drop zones and what not. I think its just a question of empowering them to step in and tell a guy when he is about to do the wrong thing. That seems simple to me but maybe its more complex than that.


well, just so you know, every one of those players know the rules inside and out.  when you see them involve a rules official, it's basically so they can stretch the rules as far as humanly possible without breaking them.

Couple of examples - leaving the headcover on your driver when you take a clublength....totally legal.   Bernhard Langer and Billy Playfair "not anchoring" while appearing to anchor and claiming that any touching is not intentional and thusly not against the rules.   

You can't be a higher level amateur and not know the rules simply by exposure to them.   PGA dudes would be like that times eleventy threve billion.
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hog of steele

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well, just so you know, every one of those players know the rules inside and out.  when you see them involve a rules official, it's basically so they can stretch the rules as far as humanly possible without breaking them.

Couple of examples - leaving the headcover on your driver when you take a clublength....totally legal.   Bernhard Langer and Billy Playfair "not anchoring" while appearing to anchor and claiming that any touching is not intentional and thusly not against the rules.   

You can't be a higher level amateur and not know the rules simply by exposure to them.   PGA dudes would be like that times eleventy threve billion.

In my mind that is why they need those rules officials. Just tell them, "don't do that." Then we don't get to a weird situation where they are finished at 18 but we find out that the score on 7 was wrong because they used the wrong dropzone.

Equipment violations are a different kind of cheating. Kick a few guys out and you will clear that up pretty quickly IMO.
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hawgon

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Iíve heard it both ways about what Lexi allegedly did.  Iíve heard that it is more or less a given  that players will move a ball slightly when there is a ball mark in the way as long as no advantage is gained rather than call an official in, get a ruling, repair it, and so on and so forth.  Iíve heard others say ďno wayĒ.

I donít know what the actual convention is as that Iím not on tour.  I would be pretty pissed if I got called for a no advantage rules violation that everyone else in the field did, but they werenít on camera when they did it.  On the other hand, in the final group of a major .... Iím sure there was a rules official actually with their group.  Take the time and do it right if youíre being honest about it.
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hawgon

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In my mind that is why they need those rules officials. Just tell them, "don't do that." Then we don't get to a weird situation where they are finished at 18 but we find out that the score on 7 was wrong because they used the wrong dropzone.

Equipment violations are a different kind of cheating. Kick a few guys out and you will clear that up pretty quickly IMO.

It isnít practical to have a rules official with every group in a 72 hole tournament and many of the rules are subjective in lots of ways anyway, so the rulings wouldnít necessarily be the same.
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hog of steele

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It isnít practical to have a rules official with every group in a 72 hole tournament and many of the rules are subjective in lots of ways anyway, so the rulings wouldnít necessarily be the same.

Are they subjective in a different way than hand checks and holding calls? Can that be trained?

72 holes but only 18 played at a time. So could we just have 18 guys who sit with the various holes?
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kingofdequeen

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Are they subjective in a different way than hand checks and holding calls? Can that be trained?

72 holes but only 18 played at a time. So could we just have 18 guys who sit with the various holes?

it's subjective to the point of "did it go in the water here?  or 3' that way?  or 3' the other way?   is this on line of flight?

that's where your playing partners come in handy - you work with them to come to a consensus as to where to drop and then roll on from there.   no need to call out old straw hat man.   
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hawgon

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Are they subjective in a different way than hand checks and holding calls? Can that be trained?

72 holes but only 18 played at a time. So could we just have 18 guys who sit with the various holes?

Most rules violations in golf are not viewable by an official anyway.  Did the ball move a fraction after address and so on and so forth?  They only become an issue if a playing partner calls someone out on it or if some guy watching on a high definition TV thinks he saw something.

But no official is going to jump in and tell a player that his ball moved a frog hair if the player doesnít call it on himself.  As KOD states, the players are pretty ruthless with each other.  They might not call someone out on the course, but word gets around. Of course, some guys donít care.  Not much you can do about that.
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ricepig

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My youngest plays in a lot of ASGA Jr events and USJGT events, some kids are terrible, lol. He'll come up to me and say "Jimmy said he had a 5", I'll reply, that's correct if you don't add in the penalties for going in the water and OB.....
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Jimmy said he had a 5"

Wouldn't that be more appropriate for the Tavern?? 
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EastexHawg

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EastTex wept.

Eh, I don't really care much about it.  I will say we can't compare golf to other sports because of the size of the playing field.  Football, baseball, and basketball arenas aren't 7,800 yards long and 100 yards wide.  Officials can't be in most of the area, much less see everything.
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Boarcephus

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it's subjective to the point of "did it go in the water here?  or 3' that way?  or 3' the other way?   is this on line of flight?

that's where your playing partners come in handy - you work with them to come to a consensus as to where to drop and then roll on from there.   no need to call out old straw hat man.   

I saws DJ do that in a tournament earlier in the year.  I think it even stunned the announcers.  He took a drop that looked 30 yards up from where it should have been, got up over it and played it in a hurry as if he were a football team trying to get the next play off before the ref could stop it and review the previous play. 
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hawgon

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Itís most subjective in that in football or basketball or something like that the officials see the entire game.  In golf, even if there is an official with every group, so much of what might or might not be a rules violation cannot be seen by any official.
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Just curious, but when was the last time you saw Eldrick call a penalty on himself?  (As opposed to the plethora of times he's committed rules violations and disagreed with it afterward when told of it.)
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