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Author Topic: 2019 in-state class  (Read 16948 times)

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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2017, 12:56:05 am »

Simple answer. Throwing ball is the most important thing a qb does. A qb can throw the ball downfield faster than he can run it himself, so even when they are mobile, running the ball themselves is about the least efficient use of them having the ball.

We've had 2 starting qb's ignoring injury. Brandon Allen was plenty mobile. Check out his combine/pro day numbers. Austin has shown plenty mobility as well.  Look at what CBB did with Russell Wilson. Wilson had about half the number of carries he had the previous year at NCState (and college includes sacks and such as carries). His efficiency numbers skyrocketed that year though.

I mean, CBB hasn't had a single pocket passer his time here. All of our qb's have been mobile. We've signed running qb's like Peavey, but he wasn't able to do the primary function of passing the ball as well as Austin (who is rated as the 8th best returning player in the SEC by PFF, so not beating him out in a competition doesn't mean Peavey was bad).

Check out the qb's who have won the national championship.

Watson: Mobile qb, but who stopped running as much his junior year and became a better passer
Coker: not mobile.
C. Jones: mobile-ish, about the same athleticism as BA, didn't run much
Winston: Not mobile
McCarron x2: Not mobile
Newton: mobile
McElroy: not mobile
Tebow: mobile
Flynn: not mobile
Leak: not mobile
Young: mobile
Leinart x2: not mobile
Mauck: not mobile

Meh. Sorry but I disagree with some of this. What I do agree with is that the #1 objective of a QB is to throw the ball. Now lets get to the disagreements.

What separates the good from the elite college QBs is being DUAL THREAT. Not just mobile. DUAL THREAT. Maybe Brandon Allen was mobile (compared to Peyton Manning maybe) but he sure as heck wasnt dual threat. Same with Austin. Mobile (more so than say a Ryan Mallett) but certainly not dual threat.

Your list also leaves off several dual threat QBs that, while they didnt win the NC, did play in the NC game (which is much closer than we have gotten in the last several years) and several of these were seconds away from winning:

Marcus Marriotta -- Dual Threat
Nick Marshall -- Dual Threat
Jalen Hurts -- Dual Threat
Troy Smith -- Dual Threat

These did not win the NC but came very very close. Let me pose you this question: If you had your choice between having Matt Jones in his prime and Austin Allen taking snaps in 3 weeks, who would you chose? What about Lamar Jackson? Or Tebow in his prime? Cam Newton? I would take any or all of these over AA because they are true DUAL THREAT, meaning the defense has to plan for an entire different dimension of offense from the threat of the running QB. With BA and AA, the defense can focus on the prototypical run play and pass play. No need to consider the QB, cause he aint going anywhere.

I have no ill will toward AA. I just wish we could see this team and offense led by an explosive player that can make things happen in crunch time. It seems every other team in the SEC has had one lately that we cannot stop (Manziel, Knight, Newton, Tebow, Dak, etc). Just ready for it to be our turn with Bohannon.
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Pork Twain

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2017, 06:02:45 am »

So tired of the dual threat talk.  Other than RM, all of our qbs could scramble and make plays with their feet if needed, but they should always look to pass first.  Give me your top 10 scramblers and I will give you my top 10 pocket qbs and the pocket guys would crush the scramblers.  In a pro style offense, either type will get the job done.  Why continue to complain about what we don't have, when we have done very well at the qb position?  It just doesn't make any sense at all.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2017, 06:41:11 am »

Why continue to complain about what we don't have, when we have done very well at the qb position?  It just doesn't make any sense at all.

This is a great point.  We've been pretty good at offensive skill positions in recent history.  We have done great at recruiting QBs, runningbacks, and wide receivers.  What we need to focus on is defensive players.  I wish our state could find a way to develop linebackers.  Outside of Spaight we really haven't had a great linebacker recruit.  Ellis was good but not at the level of Spaight.
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redleg

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2017, 11:53:40 am »

Nice to see the state finally having a good, and deep, recruiting class. But I have a bad feeling that guys like Thomas and Burks will end up at Alabama or Auburn. They would both do great at Arkansas, but I think they will go with the hype.  :-[
Maybe I'm wrong, and Bielema signs every 2019 in-state player he offers...but I kinda doubt it.
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presidenthog

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2017, 01:07:30 pm »

Meh. Sorry but I disagree with some of this. What I do agree with is that the #1 objective of a QB is to throw the ball. Now lets get to the disagreements.

What separates the good from the elite college QBs is being DUAL THREAT. Not just mobile. DUAL THREAT. Maybe Brandon Allen was mobile (compared to Peyton Manning maybe) but he sure as heck wasnt dual threat. Same with Austin. Mobile (more so than say a Ryan Mallett) but certainly not dual threat.

Your list also leaves off several dual threat QBs that, while they didnt win the NC, did play in the NC game (which is much closer than we have gotten in the last several years) and several of these were seconds away from winning:

Marcus Marriotta -- Dual Threat
Nick Marshall -- Dual Threat
Jalen Hurts -- Dual Threat
Troy Smith -- Dual Threat

These did not win the NC but came very very close. Let me pose you this question: If you had your choice between having Matt Jones in his prime and Austin Allen taking snaps in 3 weeks, who would you chose? What about Lamar Jackson? Or Tebow in his prime? Cam Newton? I would take any or all of these over AA because they are true DUAL THREAT, meaning the defense has to plan for an entire different dimension of offense from the threat of the running QB. With BA and AA, the defense can focus on the prototypical run play and pass play. No need to consider the QB, cause he aint going anywhere.

I have no ill will toward AA. I just wish we could see this team and offense led by an explosive player that can make things happen in crunch time. It seems every other team in the SEC has had one lately that we cannot stop (Manziel, Knight, Newton, Tebow, Dak, etc). Just ready for it to be our turn with Bohannon.

The last 4 (5 if you count derby) qb's to have started here have been drafted. I'm sorry but this is just stupid. We are literally maybe 1 of 10 schools with this kind of success at the qb position and you want to complain because they don't run.
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2017, 01:11:56 pm »

Meh. Sorry but I disagree with some of this. What I do agree with is that the #1 objective of a QB is to throw the ball. Now lets get to the disagreements.

What separates the good from the elite college QBs is being DUAL THREAT. Not just mobile. DUAL THREAT. Maybe Brandon Allen was mobile (compared to Peyton Manning maybe) but he sure as heck wasnt dual threat. Same with Austin. Mobile (more so than say a Ryan Mallett) but certainly not dual threat.

Your list also leaves off several dual threat QBs that, while they didnt win the NC, did play in the NC game (which is much closer than we have gotten in the last several years) and several of these were seconds away from winning:

Marcus Marriotta -- Dual Threat
Nick Marshall -- Dual Threat
Jalen Hurts -- Dual Threat
Troy Smith -- Dual Threat

These did not win the NC but came very very close. Let me pose you this question: If you had your choice between having Matt Jones in his prime and Austin Allen taking snaps in 3 weeks, who would you chose? What about Lamar Jackson? Or Tebow in his prime? Cam Newton? I would take any or all of these over AA because they are true DUAL THREAT, meaning the defense has to plan for an entire different dimension of offense from the threat of the running QB. With BA and AA, the defense can focus on the prototypical run play and pass play. No need to consider the QB, cause he aint going anywhere.

I have no ill will toward AA. I just wish we could see this team and offense led by an explosive player that can make things happen in crunch time. It seems every other team in the SEC has had one lately that we cannot stop (Manziel, Knight, Newton, Tebow, Dak, etc). Just ready for it to be our turn with Bohannon.

Really don't care about the rest of it, but I'll pick at the Hurts example.  He's far from a dual threat at this point.  He's a runner with poor passing skills to this point.  He's THE reason Bama lost the NCG.  Because he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn in that game.  Way too many 3 and outs giving Clemson too many offensive snap opportunities.  And it finally caught up with them.  The D was gased.
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2017, 01:16:21 pm »

If Bohannon is a true pocket passer with real wheels like say the Clemson QB, then yes, Bohannon is a must.  For any program. 
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trphog

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2017, 02:48:35 pm »

Tom Brady is the best dual-threat QB of all time
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bennyl08

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #58 on: August 09, 2017, 08:03:32 pm »

Meh. Sorry but I disagree with some of this. What I do agree with is that the #1 objective of a QB is to throw the ball. Now lets get to the disagreements.

What separates the good from the elite college QBs is being DUAL THREAT. Not just mobile. DUAL THREAT. Maybe Brandon Allen was mobile (compared to Peyton Manning maybe) but he sure as heck wasnt dual threat. Same with Austin. Mobile (more so than say a Ryan Mallett) but certainly not dual threat.

Your list also leaves off several dual threat QBs that, while they didnt win the NC, did play in the NC game (which is much closer than we have gotten in the last several years) and several of these were seconds away from winning:

Marcus Marriotta -- Dual Threat
Nick Marshall -- Dual Threat
Jalen Hurts -- Dual Threat
Troy Smith -- Dual Threat

These did not win the NC but came very very close. Let me pose you this question: If you had your choice between having Matt Jones in his prime and Austin Allen taking snaps in 3 weeks, who would you chose? What about Lamar Jackson? Or Tebow in his prime? Cam Newton? I would take any or all of these over AA because they are true DUAL THREAT, meaning the defense has to plan for an entire different dimension of offense from the threat of the running QB. With BA and AA, the defense can focus on the prototypical run play and pass play. No need to consider the QB, cause he aint going anywhere.

I have no ill will toward AA. I just wish we could see this team and offense led by an explosive player that can make things happen in crunch time. It seems every other team in the SEC has had one lately that we cannot stop (Manziel, Knight, Newton, Tebow, Dak, etc). Just ready for it to be our turn with Bohannon.

The only qb on your list that I'd take over Austin Allen would be Cam Newton who was truly a dual threat. Matt Jones was a very exciting quarterback for us and I have many fond memories watching him play. However, he never hit 60% passing in a season, barely hit 2k yards his senior year and just wasn't that much of a passing threat. Lamar Jackson barring some dramatic development will never sniff playing qb in the NFL and will convert to WR because he is an athlete playing qb. Tebow, in his defense, did put up good passing stats, but was absolutely surrounded by talent. Mallett has had a better pro career than Tebow and he was a statue relatively speaking. Tebow wasn't an improvisational dual threat. He had to have a specific offense that catered to his limited skill set. Allen's release, accuracy, and ability to run a pro-style offense are what set him apart from Tebow for me.

Defenses didn't worry about our qb's running because our qb's don't need to run. A qb who can pass the ball is much scarier than one who can't because a qb who can dissect the defense throwing the ball is going to eat up yards quicker than one who will run.

Somebody you haven't mentioned here is Dak Prescott. True dual threat QB. He became more dangerous when he stopped running the ball as much. Speaking of his dual threatness, he was no more dangerous a runner than BA. Both were in 5 hundredths of a second of each other in the forty.
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2017, 12:57:20 am »

The last 4 (5 if you count derby) qb's to have started here have been drafted. I'm sorry but this is just stupid. We are literally maybe 1 of 10 schools with this kind of success at the qb position and you want to complain because they don't run.

First of all, BA and AA fell into our lap because they were Bobby Allen's sons. Besides that, BA was not that successful of a QB. His senior season was his best year by far and we went 7-6 if I remember correctly. AA has been better, and the jury is out until we will see what his senior season holds. Mallett was Petrino, so he doesn't count. Tyler Wilson did not get drafted, and was also Petrino. AJ Derby was a Tight End. Not even in the converstion.

How in the world do you not think there have not been better QBs in college football in CBBs era than we have? Again, AA is good, but not on the level of the many, many that I listed earlier in the thread. Remember his stats last year: 25 TDs and 15 INTs. You think that's the best in all of college football?

Im not saying QB is why we are losing games. Im just tired of getting our asses whipped by dual threat QBs every year, yet we cant seem to recruit one that lives right down the road. Its very tiresome.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 01:50:39 am by CFB_Fanatic »
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2017, 01:03:32 am »

Really don't care about the rest of it, but I'll pick at the Hurts example.  He's far from a dual threat at this point.  He's a runner with poor passing skills to this point.  He's THE reason Bama lost the NCG.  Because he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn in that game.  Way too many 3 and outs giving Clemson too many offensive snap opportunities.  And it finally caught up with them.  The D was gased.

He was A reason Bama lost the game, but not THE reason. I mean, the guy scored (BY RUNNING NO LESS) the go ahead touchdown with 5 minutes left in the game. He did have a bad game passing that game, but play-calling could also be blamed because it was horrid. They also lost their ability to run the ball when Henry got hurt. That affects the passing game.

But regardless, lets look at his season as a whole and tell me he wasn't a successful SEC QB. Also don't fail to mention the guy is a True Freshman.
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2017, 01:13:28 am »

Tom Brady is the best dual-threat QB of all time

I didn't know we were trying to win in the NFL.......I thought the Hogs were a college team.
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2017, 01:45:36 am »

The only qb on your list that I'd take over Austin Allen would be Cam Newton who was truly a dual threat. Matt Jones was a very exciting quarterback for us and I have many fond memories watching him play. However, he never hit 60% passing in a season, barely hit 2k yards his senior year and just wasn't that much of a passing threat. Lamar Jackson barring some dramatic development will never sniff playing qb in the NFL and will convert to WR because he is an athlete playing qb. Tebow, in his defense, did put up good passing stats, but was absolutely surrounded by talent. Mallett has had a better pro career than Tebow and he was a statue relatively speaking. Tebow wasn't an improvisational dual threat. He had to have a specific offense that catered to his limited skill set. Allen's release, accuracy, and ability to run a pro-style offense are what set him apart from Tebow for me.

Defenses didn't worry about our qb's running because our qb's don't need to run. A qb who can pass the ball is much scarier than one who can't because a qb who can dissect the defense throwing the ball is going to eat up yards quicker than one who will run.

Somebody you haven't mentioned here is Dak Prescott. True dual threat QB. He became more dangerous when he stopped running the ball as much. Speaking of his dual threatness, he was no more dangerous a runner than BA. Both were in 5 hundredths of a second of each other in the forty.

Lol. Another guy talking about the NFL. WHO CARES ABOUT THE NFL! Newsflash: Arkansas is not in the NFL. We do not need players that will be successful in the NFL. We need players that will be successful in college. They are not always the same thing.

"Defenses didn't worry about our qb's running because our qb's don't need to run. A qb who can pass the ball is much scarier than one who can't because a qb who can dissect the defense throwing the ball is going to eat up yards quicker than one who will run."

Totally disagree with this statement. Im not talking about a QB that can ONLY run. Im talking about DUAL THREAT. That means they can pass AND run, no? So a QB who can pass and do all you mentioned above isn't going to be a better weapon if he can also run the ball like a running back? That's asinine. It creates an entire new threat the defense has to scheme for (like spies, loading the box, DBs having to check in the backfield for a running QB, etc)

Also, I mentioned Dak already, but youre saying our offense would be less effective with him or any of the guys that Ive mentioned than with Brandon or Austin Allen? I bet Dan Enos would disagree.
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presidenthog

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2017, 02:23:49 am »

He was A reason Bama lost the game, but not THE reason. I mean, the guy scored (BY RUNNING NO LESS) the go ahead touchdown with 5 minutes left in the game. He did have a bad game passing that game, but play-calling could also be blamed because it was horrid. They also lost their ability to run the ball when Henry got hurt. That affects the passing game.

But regardless, lets look at his season as a whole and tell me he wasn't a successful SEC QB. Also don't fail to mention the guy is a True Freshman.

Brandon Allen was a good qb. The team sucked. His sr year was the best season of any razorback ever and is still a top 10 all time CFB QBR. Will probably take 30 years to remove him from that list. You are a bafoon.
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presidenthog

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2017, 02:25:29 am »

Lol. Another guy talking about the NFL. WHO CARES ABOUT THE NFL! Newsflash: Arkansas is not in the NFL. We do not need players that will be successful in the NFL. We need players that will be successful in college. They are not always the same thing.

"Defenses didn't worry about our qb's running because our qb's don't need to run. A qb who can pass the ball is much scarier than one who can't because a qb who can dissect the defense throwing the ball is going to eat up yards quicker than one who will run."

Totally disagree with this statement. Im not talking about a QB that can ONLY run. Im talking about DUAL THREAT. That means they can pass AND run, no? So a QB who can pass and do all you mentioned above isn't going to be a better weapon if he can also run the ball like a running back? That's asinine. It creates an entire new threat the defense has to scheme for (like spies, loading the box, DBs having to check in the backfield for a running QB, etc)

Also, I mentioned Dak already, but youre saying our offense would be less effective with him or any of the guys that Ive mentioned than with Brandon or Austin Allen? I bet Dan Enos would disagree.

You are an idiot if you can't see how the NFL doesn't relate to college. You get drafted from being good on college. You sir have shown you have no football knowledge and you are talking out of your butt.

We absolutely need players who will be good in the NFL. Losing trey flowers and how we have played on defense since is all you need to see that. I hope you get your wish. We just get college dual threats who never sniff the NFL. You will be begging for a dude who can' complete a pass.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2017, 03:14:49 am »

Insomnia... sucks...  but, was just looking on Twitter where  some of our instate guys were ranked really high on rivals.  Hudson Henry came in as #1TE  in America.  Treylon burks as #5 WR in America. Darius thomas #6 OL in america. Jadon Jackson was a top 40 WR in america. And the QB we have committed  Th Evans, was #7 QB.  Dang, that is a lot of talent!  Now if we can secure all the Arkansas kids! And add some out of state guys.  Stuff to look forward too!
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2017, 10:19:21 am »

He was A reason Bama lost the game, but not THE reason. I mean, the guy scored (BY RUNNING NO LESS) the go ahead touchdown with 5 minutes left in the game. He did have a bad game passing that game, but play-calling could also be blamed because it was horrid. They also lost their ability to run the ball when Henry got hurt. That affects the passing game.

But regardless, lets look at his season as a whole and tell me he wasn't a successful SEC QB. Also don't fail to mention the guy is a True Freshman.

He was successful with the most talented players around him.  He struggled all season passing the ball.  It was obvious all season that Kiffin was trying to mask it. Clemson was the best team they'd played all year.  Good enough to force Bama's passing game to have to be effective to win.  It wasn't, they lost. 

His inability to complete passes was definitely the main reason they lost.  Not the only factor, but certainly the most glaring one.  The kid is not a dual threat.  He's a runner.  At least he is at this stage of this career.
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PintailKiller

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2017, 10:54:50 am »

First of all, BA and AA fell into our lap because they were Bobby Allen's sons. Besides that, BA was not that successful of a QB. His senior season was his best year by far and we went 7-6 if I remember correctly. AA has been better, and the jury is out until we will see what his senior season holds. Mallett was Petrino, so he doesn't count. Tyler Wilson did not get drafted, and was also Petrino. AJ Derby was a Tight End. Not even in the converstion.

How in the world do you not think there have not been better QBs in college football in CBBs era than we have? Again, AA is good, but not on the level of the many, many that I listed earlier in the thread. Remember his stats last year: 25 TDs and 15 INTs. You think that's the best in all of college football?

Im not saying QB is why we are losing games. Im just tired of getting our asses whipped by dual threat QBs every year, yet we cant seem to recruit one that lives right down the road. Its very tiresome.


Um Tyler Wilson was a 4th round pick by the Raiders.
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Hog Pharm

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2017, 12:52:49 pm »

First of all, BA and AA fell into our lap because they were Bobby Allen's sons. Besides that, BA was not that successful of a QB. His senior season was his best year by far and we went 7-6 if I remember correctly. AA has been better, and the jury is out until we will see what his senior season holds. Mallett was Petrino, so he doesn't count. Tyler Wilson did not get drafted, and was also Petrino. AJ Derby was a Tight End. Not even in the converstion.

How in the world do you not think there have not been better QBs in college football in CBBs era than we have? Again, AA is good, but not on the level of the many, many that I listed earlier in the thread. Remember his stats last year: 25 TDs and 15 INTs. You think that's the best in all of college football?

Im not saying QB is why we are losing games. Im just tired of getting our asses whipped by dual threat QBs every year, yet we cant seem to recruit one that lives right down the road. Its very tiresome.


Please tell me how it was BAs fault we went 7-6? He had 7 TDs against Ms st and we still lost. QB can only do so much. A decent defense would do wonders.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2017, 02:31:04 pm »

He was A reason Bama lost the game, but not THE reason. I mean, the guy scored (BY RUNNING NO LESS) the go ahead touchdown with 5 minutes left in the game. He did have a bad game passing that game, but play-calling could also be blamed because it was horrid. They also lost their ability to run the ball when Henry got hurt. That affects the passing game.

But regardless, lets look at his season as a whole and tell me he wasn't a successful SEC QB. Also don't fail to mention the guy is a True Freshman.
Henry? What are you talking about? Are you referring to Bo?
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gmarv

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2017, 02:33:56 pm »

Please tell me how it was BAs fault we went 7-6? He had 7 TDs against Ms st and we still lost. QB can only do so much. A decent defense would do wonders.
We went 8-5 that year not 7-6.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2017, 04:07:34 pm »

First of all, BA and AA fell into our lap because they were Bobby Allen's sons. Besides that, BA was not that successful of a QB. His senior season was his best year by far and we went 7-6 if I remember correctly. AA has been better, and the jury is out until we will see what his senior season holds. Mallett was Petrino, so he doesn't count. Tyler Wilson did not get drafted, and was also Petrino. AJ Derby was a Tight End. Not even in the converstion.

How in the world do you not think there have not been better QBs in college football in CBBs era than we have? Again, AA is good, but not on the level of the many, many that I listed earlier in the thread. Remember his stats last year: 25 TDs and 15 INTs. You think that's the best in all of college football?

Im not saying QB is why we are losing games. Im just tired of getting our asses whipped by dual threat QBs every year, yet we cant seem to recruit one that lives right down the road. Its very tiresome.

First, Tyler Wilson absolutely was drafted.

What does being under Petrino have to do with anything? Might as well say running qb's under Meyer or Gus don't count.

There absolutely have been better qb's in the college era than we have had. Most of them have been pass first guys.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2017, 04:20:54 pm »

Lol. Another guy talking about the NFL. WHO CARES ABOUT THE NFL! Newsflash: Arkansas is not in the NFL. We do not need players that will be successful in the NFL. We need players that will be successful in college. They are not always the same thing.

No they aren't always the same thing, you are correct. Colt Brennan comes to mind. However, Colt played at Hawaii against sub par competition. We play in the SEC against some near NFL competition. You look at the most successful players in the SEC, and they've been ones that were thought of highly in the NFL draft as well.

Further, comparing to the NFL, particularly the draft, allows us to focus solely on the skills of the individual. For example, Auburn went to a national championship game with Nick Marshall as their qb. However, Marshall was the same quarterback who literally completed more passes to OUR defense than his own offense in the first half of a game against us. The team was successful and had success with Marshall at QB, but Marshall was not the reason for their success. They probably would have gone to the natty that year with AJ Derby as their starting qb.

Quote
"Defenses didn't worry about our qb's running because our qb's don't need to run. A qb who can pass the ball is much scarier than one who can't because a qb who can dissect the defense throwing the ball is going to eat up yards quicker than one who will run."

Totally disagree with this statement. Im not talking about a QB that can ONLY run. Im talking about DUAL THREAT. That means they can pass AND run, no? So a QB who can pass and do all you mentioned above isn't going to be a better weapon if he can also run the ball like a running back? That's asinine. It creates an entire new threat the defense has to scheme for (like spies, loading the box, DBs having to check in the backfield for a running QB, etc)

You say you are talking about a truly dual threat guy, but you mention a whole host of college players who were athletes playing qb and not qb's who were athletic. Guys like Lamar Jackson, Matt Jones, Nick Marshall, and so on.

I've already mentioned that a guy who is truly a dual threat is obviously going to be a superior option. No if's, and's, or but's about it. However, if I have a guy who's a 9/10 passer and a 5/10 runner and another who's a 7/10 passer and an 8/10 runner, I'm going to start the 9/10 passer, as would most any coach running a pro-style offense.

Quote
Also, I mentioned Dak already, but youre saying our offense would be less effective with him or any of the guys that Ive mentioned than with Brandon or Austin Allen? I bet Dan Enos would disagree.

You barely mentioned him at the end of your post. He an afterthought in your post and I forgot that you mentioned him at all. Apologies for saying you didn't mention him.

Having said that, re-read my post and see if you misread what I said.
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factchecker

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #73 on: August 10, 2017, 04:35:55 pm »

Besides that, BA was not that successful of a QB. His senior season was his best year by far and we went 7-6 if I remember correctly.

You don't remember darn correctly - which is normal for you.

Brandon Allen was one of the best (top 3) in the SEC his final year here.

Allen threw for 3440 yards 30 TDs and 8 INTs on the way to a 8-5 (5-3 in the SEC) record his senior season.

How the Frank can anyone say they are a Hog fan when they don't even remember how many games we won or lost?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 05:02:02 pm by factchecker »
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #74 on: August 10, 2017, 04:39:24 pm »

Please tell me how it was BAs fault we went 7-6? He had 7 TDs against Ms st and we still lost. QB can only do so much. A decent defense would do wonders.

We went 8-5 that year not 7-6.

We went 8-5 but it's par for the course for CFB_Fanatic (notice how he isn't a Hog fan but a generic fan of college football) to give the Hogs more losses than the actually had.  This is the "fan" who thinks we went 1-11 last season with a lucky win to Alcorn.  He hates moral victories but believes in moral losses.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2017, 05:17:18 pm »

You are an idiot if you can't see how the NFL doesn't relate to college. You get drafted from being good on college. You sir have shown you have no football knowledge and you are talking out of your butt.

We absolutely need players who will be good in the NFL. Losing trey flowers and how we have played on defense since is all you need to see that. I hope you get your wish. We just get college dual threats who never sniff the NFL. You will be begging for a dude who can' complete a pass.

Not entirely true. Plenty of guys get drafted ahead of more productive college players because they have more athleticism and the hope is that the NFL team will be able to motivate the player where the college team did not.
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presidenthog

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2017, 08:23:24 pm »

Not entirely true. Plenty of guys get drafted ahead of more productive college players because they have more athleticism and the hope is that the NFL team will be able to motivate the player where the college team did not.

I am aware they also draft on measurable and potential alone sometimes.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2017, 09:56:05 pm »

 SEC Country Arkansas‏ @SECCountryHogs 7h7 hours ago

Arkansas recruiting mailbag: Dual-threat QBs and 2019 in-state prospects  #WPS http://sec.news/2hPcLzP

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2017, 10:50:44 pm »

I didn't know we were trying to win in the NFL.......I thought the Hogs were a college team.

You've forgotten a lot of things apparently. Do we not run a Pro-Style offense?
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2017, 11:39:58 pm »

Don't get mobile QBs, athletic QB, and running QBs confused.  They are not the same.  A mobile QB can move around in the pocket to create time if needed.  On a 3 and 4, he might roll out after the pocket breaks down, pump fake, and get run the five yards.  It's about being able to move in the pocket.  Think Brady, Eli Manning, and Roethlisberger.  An athletic QB acts like a mobile QB.  He can move in the pocket well.  He has all the reads of a "pocket passer" and understands that his job is to move the ball through the air.  However, if everything breaks down, he can readily reel off a 35-yard scramble.  Think Steve Young or Steve McNair.  A running QB has fewer reads and takes off running quickly when things break down, or he is simply running the option or veer.  Think Quinn Grovey or Tommy Frazier.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2017, 03:15:08 am »

We went 8-5 but it's par for the course for CFB_Fanatic (notice how he isn't a Hog fan but a generic fan of college football) to give the Hogs more losses than the actually had.  This is the "fan" who thinks we went 1-11 last season with a lucky win to Alcorn.  He hates moral victories but believes in moral losses.

Shows you have no idea who I am. A loss is a loss is a loss. No moral victories or losses. Trust me Im a Razorback fan so Im familiar with losses
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2017, 03:16:13 am »

Henry? What are you talking about? Are you referring to Bo?

Yeah Scarborough. They've had so many similar bruiser-type backs its hard to keep up
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2017, 03:19:20 am »

Brandon Allen was a good qb. The team sucked. His sr year was the best season of any razorback ever and is still a top 10 all time CFB QBR. Will probably take 30 years to remove him from that list. You are a bafoon.

I was talking about Jalen Hurts in that post.....what does Brandon Allen have to do with anything? He was decent but yeah the team sucked. Im talking in relation to wins and losses on the field. Don't care about BAs personal stats
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2017, 03:32:46 am »

Not entirely true. Plenty of guys get drafted ahead of more productive college players because they have more athleticism and the hope is that the NFL team will be able to motivate the player where the college team did not.

Hes like like half of these other idiots in here that think NFL and college are the same. Even though I can name dozens upon dozens of players that were successful in the NFL that weren't in college, and vice versa (for you dopes that don't know that means players can be VERY successful in CFB and not in the NFL)

Again, I don't give a damn about the NFL. Has nothing to do with us. Win in college. Win at Arkansas. Our goal isn't to make successful NFL players. Our goal is to win games. The best COLLEGE players/coaches will win the most COLLEGE games.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #84 on: August 11, 2017, 03:39:04 am »

First, Tyler Wilson absolutely was drafted.

What does being under Petrino have to do with anything? Might as well say running qb's under Meyer or Gus don't count.

There absolutely have been better qb's in the college era than we have had. Most of them have been pass first guys.

We dont run Petrino's offense anymore, that's why. I bet if we asked BP if he'd rather have Lamar Jackson or Ryan Mallett he'd take Jackson every day and twice on Sunday. But I digress

And those better QBs may have been pass FIRST guys. But they weren't pass ONLY guys. Im not advocating for a run only QB. I want one that can run well enough to be a threat to the defense. It is obvious that a QB needs to be a good passer (although Nick Marshall wasn't and they played in the Natty, but I digress).

But its like some of you guys, given the choice between two guys who are equally good at passing would purposefully take the guy that cant run over a guy that can. That's just stupid. Football is a running and throwing game, not just throwing.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #85 on: August 11, 2017, 03:41:32 am »

You've forgotten a lot of things apparently. Do we not run a Pro-Style offense?

Explain to me why you want successful NFL players. How do HOF, Super Bowl winning NFL players help Arkansas win?

They dont, because they dont play for us when they are doing all those great things in the NFL. Do those great things in college, then it will matter for Arkansas
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2017, 04:36:40 am »

You are an idiot if you can't see how the NFL doesn't relate to college. You get drafted from being good on college. You sir have shown you have no football knowledge and you are talking out of your butt.

We absolutely need players who will be good in the NFL. Losing trey flowers and how we have played on defense since is all you need to see that. I hope you get your wish. We just get college dual threats who never sniff the NFL. You will be begging for a dude who can' complete a pass.

Yes, because all of the players I have listed as examples couldn't complete passes.

Dak
Manzeil
Cam
Lamar
Mariotta

Good call. Its like in your mind no one can pass AND throw. That's unheard of (Even though it happens all the time, except here).

I guess your opinion is only slow, white gunslingers need apply for the Arkansas QB position.
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Peter Porker

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #87 on: August 11, 2017, 06:26:30 am »

We dont run Petrino's offense anymore, that's why. I bet if we asked BP if he'd rather have Lamar Jackson or Ryan Mallett he'd take Jackson every day and twice on Sunday. But I digress

And those better QBs may have been pass FIRST guys. But they weren't pass ONLY guys. Im not advocating for a run only QB. I want one that can run well enough to be a threat to the defense. It is obvious that a QB needs to be a good passer (although Nick Marshall wasn't and they played in the Natty, but I digress).

But its like some of you guys, given the choice between two guys who are equally good at passing would purposefully take the guy that cant run over a guy that can. That's just stupid. Football is a running and throwing game, not just throwing.

Ryan Mallett beat LSU....
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #88 on: August 11, 2017, 06:31:26 am »

Ryan Mallett beat LSU....

And sure as hell wouldn't have lost to Kentucky.
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bennyl08

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #89 on: August 11, 2017, 12:25:32 pm »

We dont run Petrino's offense anymore, that's why. I bet if we asked BP if he'd rather have Lamar Jackson or Ryan Mallett he'd take Jackson every day and twice on Sunday. But I digress

And those better QBs may have been pass FIRST guys. But they weren't pass ONLY guys. Im not advocating for a run only QB. I want one that can run well enough to be a threat to the defense. It is obvious that a QB needs to be a good passer (although Nick Marshall wasn't and they played in the Natty, but I digress).

But its like some of you guys, given the choice between two guys who are equally good at passing would purposefully take the guy that cant run over a guy that can. That's just stupid. Football is a running and throwing game, not just throwing.

Because the better the quarterback, the less they need to run. Do you think it is a coincidence that truly dual threat quarterbacks run less and less and they improve? Watson had his best season when he stopped running so much and became better at passing first. Russell Wilson's best season was when he went to Wisconsin and cut his running in half.

See the posts above mine about which qb Petrino would rather have...

Given the success of our qb's over the past nearly a decade, there's been barely any qb's in the country that have been better passer's than ours. 10 tops and maybe in a given year, 2-3 of those 10 better passers than our starting qb have been significant running threats. All of our starting quarterbacks have been drafted to the NFL since the 2009 season which dramatically decreases the pool of candidates out there that would be significant running threats that could actually compete with our starters at throwing the ball.

For example, take Dak Prescott. Prescott ran a lot more than BA, but Brandon was no less athletic than Prescott. Brandon rushes for the first down in the preseason game last night. He demonstrated the ability to pull off 20+ runs against SEC teams during his time here. He was just good enough to get the job done passing first that he didn't need to run. Also, he wasn't 6'5 240 pounds so he becomes more susceptible to injury and the most important ability is availability.
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trphog

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #90 on: August 11, 2017, 12:31:52 pm »

We dont run Petrino's offense anymore, that's why. I bet if we asked BP if he'd rather have Lamar Jackson or Ryan Mallett he'd take Jackson every day and twice on Sunday. But I digress

And those better QBs may have been pass FIRST guys. But they weren't pass ONLY guys. Im not advocating for a run only QB. I want one that can run well enough to be a threat to the defense. It is obvious that a QB needs to be a good passer (although Nick Marshall wasn't and they played in the Natty, but I digress).

But its like some of you guys, given the choice between two guys who are equally good at passing would purposefully take the guy that cant run over a guy that can. That's just stupid. Football is a running and throwing game, not just throwing.

How many times can one "digress?" I wouldn't get to trigger happy with that stupid word if I were you. That gun has clearly already found it's mark in you. The NFL example is a valid one for College football because it shows that the best of the best QB's aren't dual-threat, they're pocket passers. The pining for a dual-threat QB just for the sake of having one doesn't make sense in this system. We run a Pro-Style system. It also doesn't make sense when you study the history of the game. Sure, there have been some great players who have been dual-threat guys but there are more all-time greats who were pure passers. But....... I digress
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 05:30:17 pm by trphog »
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presidenthog

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #91 on: August 11, 2017, 01:43:50 pm »

I was talking about Jalen Hurts in that post.....what does Brandon Allen have to do with anything? He was decent but yeah the team sucked. Im talking in relation to wins and losses on the field. Don't care about BAs personal stats

Clearly meant to copy the one before where you call him a 1 year decent qb.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2017, 06:34:25 am »

Barry Lunney: Hogs off to really good start with 2019 class

Quote
There are three in-state 4-star prospects — wide receiver Treylon Burks (Warren), tight end Hudson Henry (Pulaski Academy) and tackle Darius Thomas (Jonesboro). Arkansas has already offered all three, as well as 3-star wide receiver Jadon Jackson (Bentonville West).

“The bottom line is there’s a really good number this year and we’re off to a really good start for the following year as far as guys that we’ve early identified,” Lunney said. “There’s going to be more [in 2019]. There’s no doubt there’s going to be a few more.

“We’re very excited where we’re at. We had a good group last year, another group in Arkansas this year that we hope to sign and then the next year is off to really good start.”
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2017, 08:08:52 am »

The folks wanting dual threat QBs seem to me to really be wishing for a QB that can 'win the game' no matter how good or bad the team is.

I get the nostalgia for a Matt Jones (for instance), you always thought we had a chance with him in there.  Truth is though that we as a team weren't all that good and our records proved it.  Everybody talked about Cam Newton but the fact of the matter is that auburn had a great team around him to win that NC.

Coaches will tell you, and a few have told me, that they don't coach schemes but that they coach players.  They may be more comfortable with a certain scheme or player type but they aren't married to either -however- a large part of the look of a team is happenstance in just which players they happened to get.

All of this to say that we should be focusing on the team as a whole, the recruiting class as a whole rather than hoping for somebody to come along and save us.
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jbcarol

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #94 on: August 15, 2017, 05:28:42 am »

 Hudson Henry‏ @hudsonhenry84 9h9 hours ago

I am excited to announce that I have been invited to the 2019 Under Armour All-America Game! @HamiltonESPN



https://twitter.com/hudsonhenry84/status/897274005429858304
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RazorPiggie

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #95 on: August 15, 2017, 02:04:00 pm »

Hudson Henry‏ @hudsonhenry84 9h9 hours ago

I am excited to announce that I have been invited to the 2019 Under Armour All-America Game! @HamiltonESPN



https://twitter.com/hudsonhenry84/status/897274005429858304

Good for him. Hopefully by that time he will already be a Hog and will be out there recruiting for us.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #96 on: August 15, 2017, 07:21:18 pm »

Methinks many on here are living in the past of just 10-12 years ago, the most recent successful teams most have D/T QB's. Reason #1 the top tier talented QB's, play 7 on 7 year round so they continuously develop their passing skills. There aren't any more Tommy Fraziers, or Vince Youngs who are great athletes and barely adequate passers. They can all now run like RB's and pass like QB's instead of passing like a RB and run like a RB. The best % of teams going forward will have the Watsons and Lamars of the world and not the Mannings and the like especially in college.
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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #97 on: August 15, 2017, 10:45:39 pm »

Methinks many on here are living in the past of just 10-12 years ago, the most recent successful teams most have D/T QB's. Reason #1 the top tier talented QB's, play 7 on 7 year round so they continuously develop their passing skills. There aren't any more Tommy Fraziers, or Vince Youngs who are great athletes and barely adequate passers. They can all now run like RB's and pass like QB's instead of passing like a RB and run like a RB. The best % of teams going forward will have the Watsons and Lamars of the world and not the Mannings and the like especially in college.

Lamar is likely going to be a WR in the NFL and not a qb.

Show me the number of qb's in the past 5 years taken in the NFL draft who have been true dual threat qb's. First, let's set up some ground rules here on what constitutes a dual threat. When we are talking about running, I want to see 400+ yards from the qb per season. If they're running for 250 or the like, then they aren't doing much more than we've seen from BA or AA. As for passing, if they are passing like a qb and not passing like a RB, then I want to see bare minimum over 60% completion percentage, ideally over 63. They need to not even be close to a 2:1 TD:INT ratio but instead better be close to 3:1 or better. If BA, AA, and RW are passing for over 3k yards on a CBB team as NFL caliber qb's, then I want to see 30k+ or at least really close. If they are passing for 2600 yards and the such, then their passing volume is going to be lower and thus they better be extra impressive in their efficiency. Lastly, they need to have 8+ yards per attempt. Most any qb can be efficient when their offense is make this pass that is just 7 yards from your body and let the receiver do the work, and if that one read isn't open, then run.

Going back through the qb's taken over the past 5 years, I see Watson, Wentz, Mariota, Prescott, Manziel and that's it. Maybe there was somebody who was a 6th or 7th round pick who qualifies, but chances are, if they fit the above criteria as a dual threat qb, they were taken pretty high.

That's one qb in the country in any given year that is actually a dual threat qb who was actually a dual threat in college and not just an average passer and a good runner, or a good passer but average running skills. Manziel we all knew would be a bust. Prescott has had one solid season. RG3 and Bortles have better season's on their resume and nobody is heralding them as top qb's anytime soon. Wentz is seem similar to a young Bortles so it remains to be seen if he'll improve over time or if this is about as good as it gets. Watson showed pretty much what was to be expected in his first preseason game. He has a strong arm and good athleticism but he isn't terribly accurate. With little defensive pressure and while having big leads in most games, he threw more interceptions than Austin did last year in college. So, you could say he's a triple threat to run, pass, or turn the ball over.

What the game has been strongly favoring is the Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck mold of qb. Somebody with a strong arm and good athleticism who if need be can run, but will 10/10 choose to pass the ball if at all possible. For example, look at Luck. If I gave his size and combine numbers next to Cam Newton's, I doubt most anybody could tell the two apart. Virtually identical athleticism. Cam is known as a runner while Luck is not. There's nothing Cam can do that Luck can't, it's just that Luck will pass the ball rather than run, which Cam is adopting as well. Among this category is a whole host of qb's such as Trubisky, Mahomes, Goff, Lynch, Hackenberg, Winston, Bridgewater, Carr, EJ Manuel, Luck, Tannehill.

In the NFL, you have about 16 starting qb's are primarily statue qb's. You have about 4-5 who are threats to run it on the NFL. And the other 11-12 are mobile but will very rarely actually take off and run.

That's the NFL, we are talking about college though. Well, the qb's who are good in college are almost always good in the NFL. Key word that I'm using here is good and not necessarily productive. Manziel had a phenomenal OL and one of the top 10 receivers in the NFL such that he had big holes to run through and a top notch guy who would bail him out of his desperation scramble throws. Put him on Vandy's team and he won't do so hot. Same with a lot of the USC qb's and Tebow. Ton's of talent around them hiding their weaknesses and making them look better.
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hawginbigd1

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #98 on: August 16, 2017, 02:37:33 pm »

Benny we are having different arguments i don't care about the nfl. I am focused on college. Lamar is a much better passer than you seem to be giving him credit for.  The Nfl has changed also just not as fast as college.
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bennyl08

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Re: 2019 in-state class
« Reply #99 on: August 16, 2017, 03:10:20 pm »

Benny we are having different arguments i don't care about the nfl. I am focused on college. Lamar is a much better passer than you seem to be giving him credit for.  The Nfl has changed also just not as fast as college.

Name a college qb that would have been just as good at Vandy as they were their school that didn't have some success in the NFL.

Lamar's 2nd season as a starter, his completion percentrage improved from 54.7 to 56.2%. He isn't even threatening to hit 60% completion. Look at the game log for the past season. Padded stats against bad teams, did poorly against good teams. He has a very strong arm for sure. However, a strong arm doesn't make somebody a good passer. You need consistency and accuracy which is something that Jackson still doesn't have after 25 starts.
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