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Author Topic: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock  (Read 3824 times)

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NWAHog479

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Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« on: March 28, 2017, 10:32:52 am »

Where do you all see Moses going in the NBA Draft, if he even gets drafted? I see him being a late second-rounder or a guy that doesn't get drafted, but plays in the summer league and makes a roster for a cup of coffee before going down to the D-League. Still think he's an elite defender and decent rebounder which translates to the NBA.
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2017, 10:49:54 am »

Where do you all see Moses going in the NBA Draft, if he even gets drafted? I see him being a late second-rounder or a guy that doesn't get drafted, but plays in the summer league and makes a roster for a cup of coffee before going down to the D-League. Still think he's an elite defender and decent rebounder which translates to the NBA.

Depending on teams' needs, I think he gets drafted anywhere from early second round to late second round.  There are quite a few teams that could use a rim protector off the bench.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2017, 11:39:48 am »

I've never felt like he had enough "game" to get drafted but what do I know.  I do know he will be playing pro ball somewhere and making good money.  Also even if he doesn't get drafted that doesn't mean his NBA possibilities are gone.
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ErieHog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2017, 12:22:31 pm »

Its a very rough market for Moses, at the moment;  most of the teams that will be drafting in the back half of the second round, do not philosophically embrace rim protection as a priority.   On the upside, he has a few tools that translate very well.

Right now, most places have him in that 40-45 range on their boards--  I tend to think he goes more in the 50-60 range, where there are multiple bad teams with picks that do tend to put more weight on rim protection than better teams (Knicks, Nets, and Suns all pick between 53 and 58)
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Hawg Red

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2017, 01:14:56 pm »

There are some things to consider about the NBA draft that I don't think many do. We saw last year that several potential second round picks (namely Fred VanVleet and Jarod Uthoff) requested teams NOT draft them. Players and agents would rather have the freedom to pick their spot than be stuck with a team that wants to stash them in the D-League or overseas, or even locked them up to a four-year deal for bare minimum money (Robert Covington comes to mind). Also, it's important note how much teams buy and trade second round picks. It's almost pointless to look at teams drafting in the second round and start trying to determine where a player might or might not go because a lot of those picks will be traded on draft night.

If teams look to Moses after being told by other players that they don't want to be drafted, he may get selected if he agrees to their terms. Or he could go undrafted (more likely) and still make some money going to training camp with someone with a guarantee of 25-75k so they can hold his D-League rights. I think that's a very possible outcome for Moses. I do think he'll be in the D-League next year. If he finds a team that wants him on their D-League team, he could make as much as 100k to play basketball in the D-League next season (guaranteed money to sign and cut + D-League salary).

I think everyone would be shocked if he went in the first round, and I'd be mildly surprised if he was drafted at all. But if he is, it won't be too big of a shock because of all the factors already mentioned. There will be guys go undrafted that are much better than guys drafted because they will play hard-ball for control of their destiny.
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HamSammich

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2017, 02:31:42 pm »

Its a very rough market for Moses, at the moment;  most of the teams that will be drafting in the back half of the second round, do not philosophically embrace rim protection as a priority.   On the upside, he has a few tools that translate very well.

Right now, most places have him in that 40-45 range on their boards--  I tend to think he goes more in the 50-60 range, where there are multiple bad teams with picks that do tend to put more weight on rim protection than better teams (Knicks, Nets, and Suns all pick between 53 and 58)

Disagree whole heartedly... there are maybe 5 NBA teams that run a true half court offense .... the rest are fun a gun. Nearly every team needs a big man that can rim protect and get up and down the floor at a nasty fast pace.
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BigoBoys

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 03:10:04 pm »

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

Here is a link to a mock draft.  Has him going #40 to Philly
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 08:52:21 pm by BigoBoys »
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311Hog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 03:19:27 pm »

he can face up a bit, can run and can block shots.  I would say he has a pretty good chance at a NBA career.
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GoHogzzGo

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 03:20:30 pm »

Defense is the line of separation. Most bigs in the NBA these days stink at offense. The biggest difference players will tell you from college to pros is the D. Moses is a great defender and I think that will but him high second round or higher. Has the height and D skills, different system will increase his rebounding as well.
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 03:26:41 pm »

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

Here is a link to a mock draft.  Has him going $40 to Philly

I knew rookie contracts weren't that lucrative, but jeez...   
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upperdeck_hawg

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 04:50:40 pm »

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

Here is a link to a mock draft.  Has him going $40 to Philly

I cant believe D'Aron Fox is only 6'3
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311Hog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 04:51:24 pm »

lol Monk to suckramento if only
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ErieHog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2017, 05:25:26 pm »

Disagree whole heartedly... there are maybe 5 NBA teams that run a true half court offense .... the rest are fun a gun. Nearly every team needs a big man that can rim protect and get up and down the floor at a nasty fast pace.

Rim protection is a half-court asset, not a full court one.    The league runs incredibly complex half court offenses,  but that's not really material to what I said--  they'll love his mobility, but they won't value his offensive limitations.   
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ErieHog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2017, 05:26:20 pm »

lol Monk to suckramento if only

I'm pretty sure that they haven't updated that part since the Kings picked up Buddy Hield;  I doubt the Kings try to overload at that position in this draft, when they have so many needs.
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HamSammich

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2017, 10:47:49 am »

Rim protection is a half-court asset, not a full court one.    The league runs incredibly complex half court offenses,  but that's not really material to what I said--  they'll love his mobility, but they won't value his offensive limitations.   

Incorrect again. Rim protection isn't only a half court asset. Getting your ass back in transition and protecting the rim as the other team comes down passes twice and shoots or drives is an absolute must. News flash.... big men don't score that much anymore other than a few. And when they do it's clean up and getting easy dunks from great passes. Moses kingly is no better and no worse than one Clint Capela who is a starter in the NBA. They have exact similar games.... except Moses might be better on defense.
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The_Iceman

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2017, 10:50:03 am »

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

Here is a link to a mock draft.  Has him going #40 to Philly

Josh Jackson is not going #1 overall.
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FraggleHog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2017, 11:55:08 am »

I think his postseason performance this year definitely improved his stock.
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ErieHog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2017, 01:38:12 pm »

Incorrect again. Rim protection isn't only a half court asset. Getting your ass back in transition and protecting the rim as the other team comes down passes twice and shoots or drives is an absolute must. News flash.... big men don't score that much anymore other than a few. And when they do it's clean up and getting easy dunks from great passes. Moses kingly is no better and no worse than one Clint Capela who is a starter in the NBA. They have exact similar games.... except Moses might be better on defense.

No matter how much you assert a falsehood, it will not make it so.  Rim protection is a halfcourt asset, not a transition one--  you can't block or change a ton of transition shots, or really effect them, because you are typically either trailing our outnumbered on a break.

Bigs don't score in the NBA?   The versatility of efficient big men scoring the basketball, particularly with range, has been driving the development of the league for the last half decade.   

Tyson Chandler wasn't a valuable asset because he ran the floor to block shots;  Rudy Gobert isn't valued because he runs down breaks for backside blocks.     Hassan Whiteside, Brook Lopez, and Myles Turner aren't making their defensive presence felt in transition with rim protection.   They're stopping halfcourt offenses at and near the rim.

The real hope for Moses is that his jump shot becomes more reliable, and you can afford to play him as a defensively minded 4,  or perhaps a D and 3 guy, if he develops just a smidge more range.
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Corkscrew Johnson

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2017, 02:31:37 pm »

He's got better touch, shooting form, and coordination than most big men in the "rim protector" mold.   He can have a nice career as a substitute playing 6-10 minutes/game game by being able to hit 2-3 of those mid-range jumpers/game.  That's a valued skillset in the NBA.
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logic

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2017, 02:47:39 pm »

I hope Moses gets drafted in the first round.  Otherwise, I believe playing in the European league for a while would be his best option.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2017, 03:39:02 pm »

I hope Moses gets drafted in the first round.  Otherwise, I believe playing in the European league for a while would be his best option.

Which one?
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2017, 06:29:43 pm »

Which one?

The one that pays the best, 😉
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daprospecta

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2017, 06:35:45 pm »

If Festis Ezili can have a job in the league, no way Moses does not have a job waiting on him.
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HamSammich

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2017, 08:32:13 pm »

No matter how much you assert a falsehood, it will not make it so.  Rim protection is a halfcourt asset, not a transition one--  you can't block or change a ton of transition shots, or really effect them, because you are typically either trailing our outnumbered on a break.

Bigs don't score in the NBA?   The versatility of efficient big men scoring the basketball, particularly with range, has been driving the development of the league for the last half decade.   

Tyson Chandler wasn't a valuable asset because he ran the floor to block shots;  Rudy Gobert isn't valued because he runs down breaks for backside blocks.     Hassan Whiteside, Brook Lopez, and Myles Turner aren't making their defensive presence felt in transition with rim protection.   They're stopping halfcourt offenses at and near the rim.

The real hope for Moses is that his jump shot becomes more reliable, and you can afford to play him as a defensively minded 4,  or perhaps a D and 3 guy, if he develops just a smidge more range.

No matter how much repeat this you are wrong.


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Razorback_Mack

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2017, 09:00:25 pm »

Rim protection is a half-court asset, not a full court one.    The league runs incredibly complex half court offenses,  but that's not really material to what I said--  they'll love his mobility, but they won't value his offensive limitations.   
The league runs incredibly complex half court offenses? Are you serious?

The NBA is a key of three league. Almost everything is based off PNR or PNP. Curls off rubs. Double and triples to get it to an open shooter. It's all about screening and cutting. Or just flat out ISO's or pushing the ball up the floor and filling lanes. Nothing complex about it.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 09:17:39 pm by Razorback_Mack »
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WoodyHog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2017, 09:12:54 am »

I think Moses will be a mid- to late-second round pick.  He could potentially have a nice NBA career if he can extend his range to the NBA 3 point line.  He already has a nice long jump shot, so I think he has flashed that potential.
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razorbackfanatic

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2017, 09:33:38 am »

Moses is about 2" short of being a possible lottery pick. If he was 6'11" or 7'0" with his athleticism he could be a force in the NBA. I know we list him at 6'10", but I think he's closer to 6'9". I just Moses Kingsley during the spring game when he was a freshman and I would have thought he was 6'7" or 6'8" tops then. I know we listed him at 6'9" as a freshman, but 6'10" ever since so he probably grew another inch. NBA uses heights of guys with their shoes on for their official measurements. So if he's really 6'9" barefoot, they'll list him 6'10", just like MJ was 6'4.75" but listed 6'6".  In recent past only Ben Wallace(6'9") has been a dominating defender at that height playing the 5. He guarded Shaq as good as anyone.

I think he'll go mid to late second round bc of his motor and his reported 7'2" or 7'3" wing span. He started to show more offensive moves specifically with his back to the basket the last couple weeks of the season. He has some potential to evolve his offensive game and he's always had good touch.

It would not surprise me to see him say 3 or 4 years down the road playing for a team and averaging like 8pts, 10-rebounds, 1.5blks a game as a role player and plus defender. We also have to remember Kingsley Moses has not been playing basketball but for about 8 years now. He can come a long ways and surprise us even more.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2017, 10:12:09 am »

For the record, Moses was measured at 6'9 in shoes with a 7'2.5'' wingspan at the Nike Basketball Academy last summer.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Moses-Kingsley-7080/
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razorbackfanatic

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2017, 04:54:18 am »

For the record, Moses was measured at 6'9 in shoes with a 7'2.5'' wingspan at the Nike Basketball Academy last summer.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Moses-Kingsley-7080/

Thanks. So he's probably only 6'8" max without shoes on. His athleticism and 7'2.5" wingspan help him a lot. His game is more online with a 5 in the NBA, but he's built like a 4. He has potential to be a defensive minded role player one day.
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Boss Hog in the Arkansas

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2017, 07:53:36 am »

According to NBADraft.com Moses is currently projected as #51 to OKC
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DEVIL DOG HOG

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2017, 08:43:13 am »

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

Here is a link to a mock draft.  Has him going #40 to Philly

Now # 51 to OKC.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2017, 08:55:09 am »

Don't get caught up in where Kingsley is projected in mock drafts unless it's in the 30s. The real crap shoot starts at around pick 40. There are not a lot of guys you can solidly project as sure second round picks. Those players will likely go in the 31-40 range. After that, it's become "will you play for our D-League team or go overseas and we can hang onto your rights?" and then players asking that teams not draft them so they can avoid that situation. Big time crap shoot. Kingsley has a shot to get drafted but he's in a big, big glut of players. I would be surprised if he didn't get some kind of NBA interest. Even if it's just playing summer league ball or playing next year in the D-League. I don't think he's a player that will have to go overseas right away. He won't make much money playing in the D-League unless he gets signed by a team that is willing to give him some guaranteed money (25-75k) to sign and release him so they can hold his D-League rights, but he'll be right under the league's nose in the D-League. A lot of guys give it 2 years in the D-League before they move on to overseas (Fortson did this).
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ErieHog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2017, 12:27:01 pm »

Don't get caught up in where Kingsley is projected in mock drafts unless it's in the 30s. The real crap shoot starts at around pick 40. There are not a lot of guys you can solidly project as sure second round picks. Those players will likely go in the 31-40 range. After that, it's become "will you play for our D-League team or go overseas and we can hang onto your rights?" and then players asking that teams not draft them so they can avoid that situation. Big time crap shoot. Kingsley has a shot to get drafted but he's in a big, big glut of players. I would be surprised if he didn't get some kind of NBA interest. Even if it's just playing summer league ball or playing next year in the D-League. I don't think he's a player that will have to go overseas right away. He won't make much money playing in the D-League unless he gets signed by a team that is willing to give him some guaranteed money (25-75k) to sign and release him so they can hold his D-League rights, but he'll be right under the league's nose in the D-League. A lot of guys give it 2 years in the D-League before they move on to overseas (Fortson did this).

The D-League is not bad money, especially under the new bridge payment agreements in the new collective bargaining agreement for transitioning between the NBA and back again.      Its a tiny bit convoluted,because the teams either use an A/B tiered pay system, or an ABC tiered system, depending on their affiliation

Instead of the Contract B/C $19k/ Contract A $26K  guarantees, the new B/C number will be 50K, and the new A 75K,  with time and money spent on NBA roster spots prorated out of the guarantee--  that is to say, if you spend half the season in the NBA earning the NBA minimum, it won't count against your D-League contract number in the other half of the year-- you can still earn $25K  on a Contract B, for the half season you play in the NBADL, plus the NBA league minimum for the half year you are on an NBA roster,  instead of your NBA pay 'capping out' your D-League earnings.

Its going to make playing in the D League a lot more viable, in the short and intermediate term.
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Pigsknuckles

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2017, 12:42:27 pm »

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

Here is a link to a mock draft.  Has him going #40 to Philly

Mock been updated with Moses #51 to OKC. Would like to have him there, if only because the Thunder are just down the road from me.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2017, 12:52:53 pm »

The D-League is not bad money, especially under the new bridge payment agreements in the new collective bargaining agreement for transitioning between the NBA and back again.      Its a tiny bit convoluted,because the teams either use an A/B tiered pay system, or an ABC tiered system, depending on their affiliation

Instead of the Contract B/C $19k/ Contract A $26K  guarantees, the new B/C number will be 50K, and the new A 75K,  with time and money spent on NBA roster spots prorated out of the guarantee--  that is to say, if you spend half the season in the NBA earning the NBA minimum, it won't count against your D-League contract number in the other half of the year-- you can still earn $25K  on a Contract B, for the half season you play in the NBADL, plus the NBA league minimum for the half year you are on an NBA roster,  instead of your NBA pay 'capping out' your D-League earnings.

Its going to make playing in the D League a lot more viable, in the short and intermediate term.

IF the player gets called up to the NBA. There is no increased money for players that do not get called up. That's where the key is signing that undrafted contract with a guarantee to hold the D-League rights. A player could make close to 100k or more without ever actually making an NBA roster. The new structure is better, but there needed to be a league-wide raise in pay and there wasn't.
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zeke_in_kc

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2017, 01:28:16 pm »

He's got better touch, shooting form, and coordination than most big men in the "rim protector" mold.   He can have a nice career as a substitute playing 6-10 minutes/game game by being able to hit 2-3 of those mid-range jumpers/game.  That's a valued skillset in the NBA.

If he can do that he's Antoine Carr and will play for ten years but he'll need to become reliable from at least fifteen feet (Carr went to eighteen).

There are much worse NBA possibilities.
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Temprees

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2017, 10:47:05 pm »

I like Kingsley more than Festus Ezeli.
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HotlantaHog

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2017, 11:37:13 am »

Kingsley was a very good player for the Hogs but underperformed expectations -- maybe the expectations were way too elevated as preseason SEC player of the year.

Can he make a big impact on the NBA? That might be too much to ask.
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Pancetta

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2017, 01:42:00 pm »

There aren't many guys that are Moses size that can run for as long as he can without getting tired.  He plays almost 30 mpg in a running style offense.  He's really a freak of nature when it comes to his endurance.  He's the type of guy that and NBA team could leave on the floor for an entire quarter and he could still crank it up and run full speed to block a trailer on a fast break. 
NBA drafts on size, athleticism, and potential, not on how good you are right now.  Which is why I'm seeing him going mid second round ahead of the likes of SC's Thornwell on the 5 or 6 mock drafts that I've looked at since the tourney began. 
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MountieDawg

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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2017, 04:33:17 pm »

That site does not list any non college basketball players and there are usually 5 to 10 international guys that get picked.
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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2017, 05:03:28 pm »

While I don't think MK will ever be a huge asset in the NBA, he can be a good role player. He's tall, athletic and still has a lot to learn in the game of basketball, especially offensively. Plus, he's a helluva a defender and rim protector, especially on the right team. Things always take a bit of luck to workout. No telling how drastically different the history of the NBA would be if the lottery had gone a different way here, or a player signed there, etc. It will take the right fit, but MK will get great coaching and develop no matter. Hopefully he sticks around in the league for a long time!
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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2017, 07:28:02 pm »

I like Kingsley more than Festus Ezeli.
Good for you but Ezeli is just under 7' with shoes, weighs 265 and has a 7'.75" wingspan. Mo isn't a 5 in the NBA and that is what hurts him the most.
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Re: Moses Kingsley NBA Draft Stock
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2017, 05:03:13 am »

Moses is about 2" short of being a possible lottery pick. If he was 6'11" or 7'0" with his athleticism he could be a force in the NBA. I know we list him at 6'10", but I think he's closer to 6'9". I just Moses Kingsley during the spring game when he was a freshman and I would have thought he was 6'7" or 6'8" tops then. I know we listed him at 6'9" as a freshman, but 6'10" ever since so he probably grew another inch. NBA uses heights of guys with their shoes on for their official measurements. So if he's really 6'9" barefoot, they'll list him 6'10", just like MJ was 6'4.75" but listed 6'6".  In recent past only Ben Wallace(6'9") has been a dominating defender at that height playing the 5. He guarded Shaq as good as anyone.

I think he'll go mid to late second round bc of his motor and his reported 7'2" or 7'3" wing span. He started to show more offensive moves specifically with his back to the basket the last couple weeks of the season. He has some potential to evolve his offensive game and he's always had good touch.

It would not surprise me to see him say 3 or 4 years down the road playing for a team and averaging like 8pts, 10-rebounds, 1.5blks a game as a role player and plus defender. We also have to remember Kingsley Moses has not been playing basketball but for about 8 years now. He can come a long ways and surprise us even more.

He's about the same height as Hakeem Olajuwon, who they always used to say was 7' but was 6'9".  I wish that Kingsley each offseason could have trained under Hakeem, who to me was one of the best centers I've seen in the NBA since I've been watching and that covers a very long time. 
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