I can Stomach Losses

[hogcard1964]

So you lied... You said you weren't watching the game and only going to go back and watch it if we won.  GO figure you lied and are hear to pile on.

I came home when we were up 24-0 and the refs were haggling over the fumble possession that was given to the Hogs.

...but yea, make this about the posters here and not your dead man walking coach.

[hawgon]

I get what you're saying, but Bielema is the one who brought that up in his post game comments.
About letting players get away with being late to meetings and the like - that he needed to be harder on them. I was confused when he made that statement, because I know we've seen quite a few players he's been exceptionally hard on.

An example of exactly the sort of thing that leads to team dissension.  A couple of years ago he cut loose a highly rated recruit because the kid didn't go to a class that his professor said wasn't mandatory.  Yet, last night he talks about kids being late for meetings regularly?  That is Nuttish.  You can't run any organization like that. 

[WilsonHog]

Have you changed your mind about 7 wins and keeping the program clean?

Not necessarily, no, although I think what I said was 7-8 wins a year, and then I later agreed with a poster who suggested 9 wins every few years. Hard to see that as unreasonable, and I don't think our ceiling is going to consistently be much more than that in the SEC West.

That being said, all losses are not the same. If I hadn't watched the game last night and just saw the 35-24 final score on the ticker, my reaction would have been, "Well, that's about what I thought. Least we put up a fight." Far different reaction than watching us blow a 24-0 lead, a collapse the like Razorback fans haven't seen in 50 years.   

Kind of sobering, no?

[hawgon]

You can't really argue that a team good enough to get up 24-0 was outmatched, untalented, or incapable.

[lutherheggs]

Bielema is mentally weak. He needs to lose 150+ lbs and obviously cannot do it. His teams are OBVIOUSLY mentally weak/fragile. Is Bielema a player's coach and too friendly with his players? These kinds of coaches generally do not do well. You do not have to be a horrible person in order to be a successful college head coach but you do have to demand and earn respect and cannot be any player's "friend".

I know 4 years is not a long time in the scheme of things but it is a long time relative to the average length of service by a head coach at one school. I bet in power 5 conferences, the average head coach tenure is around 7 or 8 yrs max. Given that, Bielema has had enough time to show us what he can and cannot do. If at this point any fan or observer thinks this program under Bielema is going to suddenly become a regular 8-4 or 9-3 team, that fan or observer is either delusional or optimistic to a point of stupidity.

Bielema is going to give us a lot more 6-6's, 7-5's and worse than anything above that for however long he is allowed to remain. This is all he is capable of at Arkansas.

As for paying him what he gets, that is how it works. It could be me they hire for the head coaching position and would pay me $3 million a yr. At this program, that is what the head coach gets. Prior and current records do not materially matter. The salary is sort of a bet on the come more than anything else. It sets expectations.

[tzthib]

You can't really argue that a team good enough to get up 24-0 was outmatched, untalented, or incapable.

Exactly.

[streitenberger]

Our players have a buddy and enabler, not a coach.

Name any championship coach that's the type you just want to sit and have a beer with at a concert. That's not Saban, Urban Meyer, Phil Jackson, Belichick, Popovich, et al. No, you play for Bielema and fail and he's more likely to only give you half a glass of milk with your cookies instead of a full one. Weak on play related discipline. Poor attention to detail. Inability to focus or regain any focus that's been lost. We are so lucky to have this guy!

Pete Carroll, Joe Maddon, Dick Vermeil, maybe Marv Levy although he never got over the hump. But I agree with your point. The four that I mentioned all have qualities such as tremendous attention to detail, or are upper echelon in game strategists, or pick top notch assistants, or have the ability to keep the locker room loose but focused.  Not sure CBB has any of that.

[PonderinHog]

Pete Carroll, Joe Maddon, Dick Vermeil, maybe Marv Levy although he never got over the hump. But I agree with your point. The four that I mentioned all have qualities such as tremendous attention to detail, or are upper echelon in game strategists, or pick top notch assistants, or have the ability to keep the locker room loose but focused.  Not sure CBB has any of that.

No rocket surgeon here, but he may be more of a "do as I say, not as I do" kinda guy.

[hogcard1964]

Not necessarily, no, although I think what I said was 7-8 wins a year, and then I later agreed with a poster who suggested 9 wins every few years. Hard to see that as unreasonable, and I don't think our ceiling is going to consistently be much more than that in the SEC West.

That being said, all losses are not the same. If I hadn't watched the game last night and just saw the 35-24 final score on the ticker, my reaction would have been, "Well, that's about what I thought. Least we put up a fight." Far different reaction than watching us blow a 24-0 lead, a collapse the like Razorback fans haven't seen in 50 years.   

Kind of sobering, no?

Same carp next year.

[Redhogs]

You can't really argue that a team good enough to get up 24-0 was outmatched, untalented, or incapable.

Exactly right, being lead by a first year coach no less.

[ricepig]

Exactly right, being lead by a first year coach no less.

That was Fuentes first year to coach, did they not count the years at Memphis?

[Redhogs]

That was Fuentes first year to coach, did they not count the years at Memphis?

Like the way we count Bert's years at Whisky?

[DCHogger]

Albeit players have to make choices and they must be held accountable for their mistakes, the players do reflect the coaches mentorship and leadership for a team.  Understand that these players spend 9 months out of the year with these coaches, thus the coaches are like "fathers" and "mothers" to them.  If the players are getting caught shoplifting and spitting in opponent's faces, it is a reflection of the "lack of fear" or healthy respect the players have for their leadership or coaches, and they do not fear the accountability the players have for each other despite the consequences or apparent punishment they receive.  And, these are the incidents that we hear about.  What about the ones that we don't hear anything about that the coaches or players keep hush hush?  I get that a certain level of privacy must be maintained in college sports, however, when you got a player who actually breaks the law in open public view, that is a huge problem and symptom of bigger problems under the surface.  After which, transparency must then take over and be made to the school leadership, the players, and the public.  If that discipline has not been established now after four years of coaching, there is no way that can be instituted now. It must be started on the first day of coaching.  One cannot implement strict standards once those have been compromised or lax. Therefore, I think it would be in the best interest of the school to let Coach B go.  Leadership always starts at the top, standards flow downhill, actions reflect those standards being implemented by the sub-leaders or assistant coaches. With no standards, no respect, or no discipline being enforced, the players cannot mentally pull together as a team to combat the opponent when things get rough in the trenches.  The players are only doing what the coaches are doing, which is not working together to ensure they maintain and sustain mental toughness, focus, and discipline.  The second half of the game was a reflection of total mental breakdown by the players and coaches when they were challenged by VT.  It was apparent we had the physicality to hang with these guys which showed in the first half.  I would even go as far as to say our physicality overmatched VT in the first half.  But what happened in the second half can only be attributed to mental failure or collapse, and that   was evident in the players' eyes, the coaches, and especially the head coach.  The head coach lost control of his team, his players, and the overall mental posture that probably started not during the second half, but probably the first day of practice in the fall.                           

[hoglady]

Bielema is mentally weak. He needs to lose 150+ lbs and obviously cannot do it. His teams are OBVIOUSLY mentally weak/fragile. Is Bielema a player's coach and too friendly with his players? These kinds of coaches generally do not do well. You do not have to be a horrible person in order to be a successful college head coach but you do have to demand and earn respect and cannot be any player's "friend".

I know 4 years is not a long time in the scheme of things but it is a long time relative to the average length of service by a head coach at one school. I bet in power 5 conferences, the average head coach tenure is around 7 or 8 yrs max. Given that, Bielema has had enough time to show us what he can and cannot do. If at this point any fan or observer thinks this program under Bielema is going to suddenly become a regular 8-4 or 9-3 team, that fan or observer is either delusional or optimistic to a point of stupidity.

Bielema is going to give us a lot more 6-6's, 7-5's and worse than anything above that for however long he is allowed to remain. This is all he is capable of at Arkansas.

As for paying him what he gets, that is how it works. It could be me they hire for the head coaching position and would pay me $3 million a yr. At this program, that is what the head coach gets. Prior and current records do not materially matter. The salary is sort of a bet on the come more than anything else. It sets expectations.

You know which teams of Bielema's weren't weak - his first 2 years here.
Those teams would get beat, but by God they left everything they had on the field every week.
They'd lose heartbreaker, after heartbreaker and come back giving 110% the next week.
I'll take that any day over the crap we've seen this year.

[hawgon]

You know which teams of Bielema's weren't weak - his first 2 years here.
Those teams would get beat, but by God they left everything they had on the field every week.
They'd lose heartbreaker, after heartbreaker and come back giving 110% the next week.
I'll take that any day over the crap we've seen this year.

They were still mentally weak in that even though they played hard, they still found ways to lose.  This year is just what happens when you find ways to lose long enough.  Eventually you figure out that you're going to lose no matter what so that it doesn't make sense to leave your guts out there on the field.

[lutherheggs]

You know which teams of Bielema's weren't weak - his first 2 years here.
Those teams would get beat, but by God they left everything they had on the field every week.
They'd lose heartbreaker, after heartbreaker and come back giving 110% the next week.
I'll take that any day over the crap we've seen this year.

The players in his first two seasons at Arkansas were not his recruits.

[PonderinHog]

The players in his first two seasons at Arkansas were not his recruits.

She knows, trust me on this.

[ricepig]

The players in his first two seasons at Arkansas were not his recruits.

He didn't recruit any of them?

[lutherheggs]

He didn't recruit any of them?

Not on the 2 deep. When I use the term "players", i refer to those who played.

[Mo_Better_Hogs]

Per the subject of "losses"---

I've never thought about losing games like I have this year. We've had worse seasons---like Bielema's first, Crowe's first, most of Ford's. And while Nutt had some losing seasons, what I remember were the frustrating games during the McFadden/Felix/Hillis era, where we had no business blowing them.

This year, those first 4 big losses were the kind of thing you'd see when there was a total change in the football staff (again, like Crowe's first year). You don't expect blowouts on that magnitude now. I'll even make an exception for the Bama game, because we actually played them fairly well, and for 60 minutes. But for this team to just get pounded...unthinkable.

Which brings me to the last 2---Missouri and yesterday. I've never had the wind taken out of my Razorback red sails like this before, ever. To think about how stunned I was after the Missouri meltdown, only to REPEAT IT and UP IT. No, giving up 28 just wasn't dramatic enough, so let's give up 35! And, let's not muster up even a field goal.

In the Belk Bowl, the points given up, the lack of points we scored, and any of the actual game details are irrelevant to me now. What's still sticking with me is the lack of heart, the lack of determination, the lack of fortitude we showed yesterday. There are lesser teams, smaller teams, that put up more of a fight than we did. It doesn't take studying the game too closely to see that.

[ricepig]

Not on the 2 deep. When I use the term "players", i refer to those who played.

Collins, Skipper, Kirkland, Henry, Ellis, and probably some others might disagree.

[lutherheggs]

Collins, Skipper, Kirkland, Henry, Ellis, and probably some others might disagree.

Henry wasn't recruited by Bielema.

[ricepig]

Henry wasn't recruited by Bielema.

Sure he was. Anyone in that class was his recruit. He said he also recruited him at Wisconsin.

[Jim Harris]

Not on the 2 deep. When I use the term "players", i refer to those who played.

Spaight, Collins, Skipper, Kirkland, Hunter Henry, et al. His recruits.

[julie]

It is obvious to me from on field body language, etc. that there is no one in charge on the field or on the sidelines.  No leader.  Zero accountability.

[onebadrubi]

I came home when we were up 24-0 and the refs were haggling over the fumble possession that was given to the Hogs.

...but yea, make this about the posters here and not your dead man walking coach.

Ya ya ya, you specifically said here you wouldn't be watching the game and going to wait till the end to see if it wasworth watching.  YOu said this multiple times because of your agenda of hatred for this staff, decisions mades, and maybe even some of the players. 

He's not my coach, he's the Arkansas Razorback coach, you know the sole intention of discussion for this forum which you live on 23.5 hours a day.

[hoglady]

She knows, trust me on this.

Yes I do.
Those players had been through so much with the Petrino and John L Smith debacle - I was impressed that Bielema got those guys to leave it on the field every down of every game.
That's why the mental weakness of this team is shocking and so disappointing.
I had my doubts about Bielema making it work here - but I never doubted he would field tough, physical teams. I was wrong.

[DeltaBoy]

This Staff needs some major salary cuts with an incentive plan put in place we 8+ the bowl you get 5 grand , lose the bowl lose 5 grand. BLOW a halftime lead like last night lose 5 more grand of top of it.

[Kevin]

So cbb came in with basically a no tolerance policy, suspending guys, for every little thing, now what I am hearing, he took his foot off the petal.

Bad move, has cost him.

Let's see if he goes back to how things were run year one. That team was not any good, but they were disciplined

[hawgon]

So cbb came in with basically a no tolerance policy, suspending guys, for every little thing, now what I am hearing, he took his foot off the petal.

Bad move, has cost him.

Let's see if he goes back to how things were run year one. That team was not any good, but they were disciplined

Can't ever go back to being hard after being soft.

[12247]

Remember how BB preached about penalties.  You cause penalties, you sit, period.  All that is out the window.  Remember the one a day practices he went to in his 3rd year.  I suspect that was more to keep himself out of the heat more than considering the players best interest.  That group started the season totally out of condition, especially the o-line.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Henry wasn't recruited by Bielema.

Wait, what?

[PorkRinds]

Guarantee that wouldn't have happened under Saban. He has a high level of accountability

He let a guy play after being arrested for gun possession.

[ricepig]

Remember how BB preached about penalties.  You cause penalties, you sit, period.  All that is out the window.  Remember the one a day practices he went to in his 3rd year.  I suspect that was more to keep himself out of the heat more than considering the players best interest.  That group started the season totally out of condition, especially the o-line.

Good Lord, the bit on the practices again, did you completely forget we used every practice allowed by the NCAA? I really think you have CRS.

[PorkRinds]

This Staff needs some major salary cuts with an incentive plan put in place we 8+ the bowl you get 5 grand , lose the bowl lose 5 grand. BLOW a halftime lead like last night lose 5 more grand of top of it.

Lol.

[jgphillips3]

Can't ever go back to being hard after being soft.

Yeah you can.  You just have to wait about 10-15 minutes and then have her...ummmm...never mind...

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Bama, Auburn, LSU, Missouri and then Last Night.

It's one thing to be beaten.  It's another to be embarrassed by a team's performance.

I was disappointed with the season going into the Bowl Game. 

Right now I'm very concerned with the direction of the program for the first off season since Bielema arrived. 

This is me.
I was opposed to BB when he got here.
I came around and became a believer in him and the direction of the program.
Now I'm very concerned about the program, and another embarrassment will probably tip me back to being opposed to BB being the guy in charge.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

So cbb came in with basically a no tolerance policy, suspending guys, for every little thing, now what I am hearing, he took his foot off the petal.

Bad move, has cost him.

Let's see if he goes back to how things were run year one. That team was not any good, but they were disciplined

Yes.

Things are definitely not coming up roses.

[Pigsknuckles]

There are 18 million rea$on$ to believe it. 

In before me. Some folks just don't understand the incentive concept of a convenience buyout. CBB could still be going to Rose Bowls regularly. Whoever we had hired, there had to be some long term security offered to attract someone to take over the dumpster fire wewere under Smith.

[ballz2thewall]

Our players have a buddy and enabler, not a coach.

Name any championship coach that's the type you just want to sit and have a beer with at a concert. That's not Saban, Urban Meyer, Phil Jackson, Belichick, Popovich, et al. No, you play for Bielema and fail and he's more likely to only give you half a glass of milk with your cookies instead of a full one. Weak on play related discipline. Poor attention to detail. Inability to focus or regain any focus that's been lost. We are so lucky to have this guy!

yep. get this poster a goat and let him have his way.

dead on.

a group leader at a summer retreat.

[BallHog1]

I would never have believed it was possible to bring so many damn crybabies together in one place before I found Hogville. Thanks to HV I now know it's not only possible but it's been done.
Hope all you crybabies got pink hankies for Christmas.

[Ex-Trumpet]

I would never have believed it was possible to bring so many damn crybabies together in one place before I found Hogville. Thanks to HV I now know it's not only possible but it's been done.
Hope all you crybabies got pink hankies for Christmas.

You have enough posts to have figured this out long ago!! 

[hoglady]

In before me. Some folks just don't understand the incentive concept of a convenience buyout. CBB could still be going to Rose Bowls regularly. Whoever we had hired, there had to be some long term security offered to attract someone to take over the dumpster fire wewere under Smith.

Honestly, with the return of dominance of Ohio St, Penn St and Michigan Bielema's days of sniffing Rose Bowls were coming to an abrupt end.

[razorsharptusk]

He seems to talk a good game about what he wants to build here. But lacks the skills to do it. There seems to be a disconnect between Coach and players. But we will never know.

[lakecityhog]

And who hired Smith??

[TheRazorback500]

I can stomach losses to a better team that outplays us, but the way we gave the damn thing away really chaps my butt.

:razorback:

[reddogjcss]

Piss poor coaching and players playing up to the leadership of the coaching staff. There is problems on the hill that we don't know about yet but when kids start acting and playing like ours there's problems with the leadership, kids are results of there environment and we got problems.
Great parents 97% time have great kids. Bad parents 97% time have very bad kids.