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Author Topic: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )  (Read 1036 times)

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Hawghiggs

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Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« on: December 05, 2016, 10:15:44 pm »


  The Big12 is a conference built on very little talent. Every program that is not in the states of Oklahoma and Texas has awful recruiting rankings. Only WVU has been anywhere near competitive. If Arkansas and Houston where in the Big 12. We would have the 2nd best recruiting class currently, and Houston would have the 4th. Now that won't last now that Texas has a new coach. But it does go to show how competitive the Razorbacks try to be, or could be. Considering that we have around the 9th best recruiting class in the SEC.

  Now I don't want the UofA to join the Big 12. But could there be something better for Arkansas? Could a modern day version of the SWC actually work?

 

 
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longpig

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2016, 07:19:40 am »

Nothing involving the Longhorns can work.  Nothing. 
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SardisHog

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2016, 07:26:08 am »

It's funny but when we came into the SEC I remember Coach Broyles saying how much better it was for everyone that the conference supported everyone equally and that was so different from the SWC we had just left.  He also stated he would never consider going back to something like that.
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jgphillips3

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2016, 07:44:01 am »

It's funny but when we came into the SEC I remember Coach Broyles saying how much better it was for everyone that the conference supported everyone equally and that was so different from the SWC we had just left.  He also stated he would never consider going back to something like that.

That's the main reason I would never go back.  Just look at our equal sharing of revenue and their tiered way that destroyed the conference.  I am much more content with Birmingham being a de facto leader than Austin being our de jure leader. People think who think we get screwed worse now are probably below 35-40 and don't have any real memories of what being the red headed, non-Texan member of the SWC was like.
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Hoggie17

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2016, 07:59:50 am »

Nothing involving the Longhorns can work.  Nothing.
100% correct, We are good enough to win with the right coach in the SEC.  Ala is the only elephant in the room. The money is to too good to walk away.
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Torqued pork

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2016, 11:45:27 am »

After being informed by the finest football minds on Hogville that not even Saban could bring us a SEC title, I believe CUSA would be a better fit for us than the Big XII.
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Hawghiggs

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2016, 03:18:29 pm »

That's the main reason I would never go back.  Just look at our equal sharing of revenue and their tiered way that destroyed the conference.  I am much more content with Birmingham being a de facto leader than Austin being our de jure leader. People think who think we get screwed worse now are probably below 35-40 and don't have any real memories of what being the red headed, non-Texan member of the SWC was like.

 This is a little unfair to Texas. Nebraska and Texas A&M also voted for unequal revenue sharing. And it was Texas that tried to get the Big 12 to create a network. But Nebraska and Texas A&M didn't want it.
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Hogarusa

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2016, 04:15:55 pm »

You dont get to take your SEC recruiting into the Big 12. If Hogs were in the Big 12, their recruiting rankings would fall.
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Hawghiggs

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2016, 04:23:51 pm »

You dont get to take your SEC recruiting into the Big 12. If Hogs were in the Big 12, their recruiting rankings would fall.

 This is a false statement. Arkansas actually recruited Texas better when we where in the SWC. Also plenty of Louisiana recruits go to Big 12 schools currently. So it can be surmised that we would still get talent from Louisiana.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2016, 04:50:00 pm »

This is a little unfair to Texas. Nebraska and Texas A&M also voted for unequal revenue sharing. And it was Texas that tried to get the Big 12 to create a network. But Nebraska and Texas A&M didn't want it.

Maybe they wanted a different type than what the horns offered them. They left for reasons that all came done to Texas and its arrogance. Funny you failed to mention they weren't the only schools that left.
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Hawghiggs

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2016, 05:34:58 pm »

Maybe they wanted a different type than what the horns offered them. They left for reasons that all came done to Texas and its arrogance. Funny you failed to mention they weren't the only schools that left.

 I'm not saying Delose Dodd couldn't be an arrogant SOB. But so can Tom Osborne. Neither is in charge anymore. As far as not mentioning Colorado and Missouri. I don't know how they voted. But majority ruled. So there is a good chance that they voted for it. Besides Colorado had been trying to get into the PAC 10 for years.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2016, 05:37:38 pm »

I'm not saying Delose Dodd couldn't be an arrogant SOB. But so can Tom Osborne. Neither is in charge anymore. As far as not mentioning Colorado and Missouri. I don't know how they voted. But majority ruled. So there is a good chance that they voted for it. Besides Colorado had been trying to get into the PAC 10 for years.

Texas arrogance precedes Dodd and it will always be there.
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Hawghiggs

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2016, 05:39:54 pm »

Maybe they wanted a different type than what the horns offered them. They left for reasons that all came done to Texas and its arrogance. Funny you failed to mention they weren't the only schools that left.

 Texas only had one vote, and I am unaware if anyone else even brought up a different type of revenue sharing. But isn't it their own fault if they didn't have a well thought out revenue plan?
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jkstock04

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2016, 05:55:27 pm »

What I take notice in is Oklahoma st...Stillwater, OK mind you...Probably 2.5-3 hours from our campus...in the Big 12 is constantly in the top 20. Sometimes in the top 10. They always win a fair share of games & get recognition.

Supposedly Fayetteville AR is an impossible place to recruit to in the SEC. But I guess in the Big 12 recruiting to Stillwater (lol) OK. is no problem as far as winning 8+ wins/year. I bet they average 9+ wins/ year there. Must be nice.
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12247

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2016, 06:40:08 pm »

If we actually went back to the SWC/Big12, you would be surprised how little it would help right out the gate.  We would be looking at 65-60 scores every week.  Our big slow defense couldn't stop anyone and our slow down offense couldn't score fast enough to keep up.

But after a year or two, we could, on average, do better in the win column over there.

As for Okie State, heard rumors that Mike Gundy was looking at Baylor.  They are about the same as us when it comes to recruiting.  Remember when we used to play them annually and they always came to our place to absorb a beating.  Now, they are annually better than us.  So sad.
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longpig

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2016, 06:47:17 pm »

This is a little unfair to Texas. Nebraska and Texas A&M also voted for unequal revenue sharing. And it was Texas that tried to get the Big 12 to create a network. But Nebraska and Texas A&M didn't want it.

No such thing as unfair to Texas.
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longpig

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2016, 06:50:21 pm »

That's the main reason I would never go back.  Just look at our equal sharing of revenue and their tiered way that destroyed the conference.  I am much more content with Birmingham being a de facto leader than Austin being our de jure leader. People think who think we get screwed worse now are probably below 35-40 and don't have any real memories of what being the red headed, non-Texan member of the SWC was like.

I went to the Arkansas game in Columbia with some Mizzou fans.  Without the history Arkansas has with Texas they had as much disdain for the Longhorns as we do  from recent experience in the Big 12.
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Hawghiggs

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2016, 07:14:41 pm »

What I take notice in is Oklahoma st...Stillwater, OK mind you...Probably 2.5-3 hours from our campus...in the Big 12 is constantly in the top 20. Sometimes in the top 10. They always win a fair share of games & get recognition.

Supposedly Fayetteville AR is an impossible place to recruit to in the SEC. But I guess in the Big 12 recruiting to Stillwater (lol) OK. is no problem as far as winning 8+ wins/year. I bet they average 9+ wins/ year there. Must be nice.

 Constant Texas recruiting?

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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2016, 07:39:18 pm »

What I take notice in is Oklahoma st...Stillwater, OK mind you...Probably 2.5-3 hours from our campus...in the Big 12 is constantly in the top 20. Sometimes in the top 10. They always win a fair share of games & get recognition.

Supposedly Fayetteville AR is an impossible place to recruit to in the SEC. But I guess in the Big 12 recruiting to Stillwater (lol) OK. is no problem as far as winning 8+ wins/year. I bet they average 9+ wins/ year there. Must be nice.

Stillwater is far from anything special, though to hear OSU fans talk, it is a little slice of Nirvana. To me, it is just another small town that wouldn't be crap without OSU being in town. Some might say the same for Fayetteville, except for some large corporations being located there, but Fayetteville truly does have a lot more to offer than most realize and the northwest Arkansas area is a great place to live. Stillwater can't come close to this.

The difference between Arkansas and Oklahoma State right now (in terms of recruiting) is what they are willing to tolerate in terms of a lack of character, replaced by greater athletic ability, as opposed to our primary consideration, with immediate athleticism for the most part being secondary to a program geared toward long term development.

The war is on between T. Boone Pickens and Mike Gundy, again. A lot of their fans grow weary of this childish infighting between one really grown man (billionaire) and the other who has been a very successful football coach. T. Boone wants to be worshipped, Gundy wants to be respected for his achievements and not treated like a kid. Neither wants to budge.

Stillwater doesn't have anything on Arkansas except lower standards.
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Hawghiggs

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2016, 08:24:33 pm »

 They do have a better record.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2016, 07:00:50 am »

Texas only had one vote, and I am unaware if anyone else even brought up a different type of revenue sharing. But isn't it their own fault if they didn't have a well thought out revenue plan?

However they can dictate how the others are going to vote simply by saying "Do what we want" and others besides OU and a couple more have no good options but to comply. Keep asking yourself WHY has FOUR teams ran away. At some point maybe you'll get a good answer. When you do there will be that word  "texas' in it.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2016, 07:31:19 am »

They do have a better record.

How long has Gundy had to entrench his system at OSU against lesser competition? 13 years.

His first 4 years there? 4-7, 7-6, 7-6 and 9-4.
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jkstock04

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2016, 07:54:07 am »

Stillwater is far from anything special, though to hear OSU fans talk, it is a little slice of Nirvana. To me, it is just another small town that wouldn't be crap without OSU being in town. Some might say the same for Fayetteville, except for some large corporations being located there, but Fayetteville truly does have a lot more to offer than most realize and the northwest Arkansas area is a great place to live. Stillwater can't come close to this.

The difference between Arkansas and Oklahoma State right now (in terms of recruiting) is what they are willing to tolerate in terms of a lack of character, replaced by greater athletic ability, as opposed to our primary consideration, with immediate athleticism for the most part being secondary to a program geared toward long term development.

The war is on between T. Boone Pickens and Mike Gundy, again. A lot of their fans grow weary of this childish infighting between one really grown man (billionaire) and the other who has been a very successful football coach. T. Boone wants to be worshipped, Gundy wants to be respected for his achievements and not treated like a kid. Neither wants to budge.

Stillwater doesn't have anything on Arkansas except lower standards.
Stillwater is about 10 times more redneck than Fville as well. Whatever the case, they are in a much better situation than we are when it comes to succeeding on the football field.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2016, 07:58:01 am »

Stillwater is about 10 times more redneck than Fville as well. Whatever the case, they are in a much better situation than we are when it comes to succeeding on the football field.

How long has Gundy had to entrench his system at OSU against lesser competition? 13 years.

His first 4 years there? 4-7, 7-6, 7-6 and 9-4.
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Hogarusa

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2016, 08:37:19 am »

This is a false statement. Arkansas actually recruited Texas better when we where in the SWC. Also plenty of Louisiana recruits go to Big 12 schools currently. So it can be surmised that we would still get talent from Louisiana.

Naturally, since Arkansas were playing all Texas schools. And in this hypothetical move, Arkansas would again make Texas a #1 prioirty when playing TCU, Texas, Baylor, and Texas Tech. The Hogs recruiting would suffer though. Instead of losing top targets to LSU and Bama, it would be OU and Texas. Texas will rebound and OU is always in the top 10. For 2017, after OU, OSU is next at 28, Iowa St at 32, and Texas Tech at 49. Not an easy conference to recruit in currently
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Hogtimes

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2016, 09:28:24 am »

Stillwater is about 10 times more redneck than Fville as well. 

Some would consider that a positive thing.   Fayeteville is a very liberal place.
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woodhog14

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2016, 10:43:27 am »

Stillwater is far from anything special, though to hear OSU fans talk, it is a little slice of Nirvana. To me, it is just another small town that wouldn't be crap without OSU being in town. Some might say the same for Fayetteville, except for some large corporations being located there, but Fayetteville truly does have a lot more to offer than most realize and the northwest Arkansas area is a great place to live. Stillwater can't come close to this.

The difference between Arkansas and Oklahoma State right now (in terms of recruiting) is what they are willing to tolerate in terms of a lack of character, replaced by greater athletic ability, as opposed to our primary consideration, with immediate athleticism for the most part being secondary to a program geared toward long term development.

The war is on between T. Boone Pickens and Mike Gundy, again. A lot of their fans grow weary of this childish infighting between one really grown man (billionaire) and the other who has been a very successful football coach. T. Boone wants to be worshipped, Gundy wants to be respected for his achievements and not treated like a kid. Neither wants to budge.

Stillwater doesn't have anything on Arkansas except lower standards.

Another reason why Okie State gets a bunch of Texas recruits is because they play 2-3 games a year in Texas so it's easier for their families see them play.
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Hawghiggs

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2016, 03:51:29 pm »

Naturally, since Arkansas were playing all Texas schools. And in this hypothetical move, Arkansas would again make Texas a #1 prioirty when playing TCU, Texas, Baylor, and Texas Tech. The Hogs recruiting would suffer though. Instead of losing top targets to LSU and Bama, it would be OU and Texas. Texas will rebound and OU is always in the top 10. For 2017, after OU, OSU is next at 28, Iowa St at 32, and Texas Tech at 49. Not an easy conference to recruit in currently

 This hypothetical conference would be more SWC like and wouldn't have Iowa state, Kansas, Kansas state, or West Virginia.  The example that I would give is below.

   ( New SWC )

1, Arkansas
2, Baylor
3, Houston
4, Oklahoma
5, Oklahoma state
6, TCU
7, Texas
8, Texas Tech
9, Tulane

 
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S.A.D.C

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2016, 04:27:48 pm »

This hypothetical conference would be more SWC like and wouldn't have Iowa state, Kansas, Kansas state, or West Virginia.  The example that I would give is below.

   ( New SWC )

1, Arkansas
2, Baylor
3, Houston
4, Oklahoma
5, Oklahoma state
6, TCU
7, Texas
8, Texas Tech
9, Tulane

This illustrates why it would never work today.  College Football conferences are driven by TV markets.  This league would essentially capture Dallas and Houston in terms of MAJOR markets.  That ain't enough. 

It also is why the Big12 schools went along with Texas and voted for unfair revenue sharing.  Because if they didn't TEXAS would have left. And if Texas left then the Big12 would essentially be CUSA.  The Iowa St AD actually said that almost word for word.  Those schools decided that unfair revenue in the Big12 with Texas was their best option.  Better than fair revenue without them. 

Here is an interesting oral history of Mizzou's exit:  https://missouri.rivals.com/news/zero-trust-inside-mizzou-s-move-to-the-southeastern-conference
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Hawghiggs

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Re: Offseason topic ( The Big12/ SWC )
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2016, 07:44:38 pm »

This illustrates why it would never work today.  College Football conferences are driven by TV markets.  This league would essentially capture Dallas and Houston in terms of MAJOR markets.  That ain't enough. 

It also is why the Big12 schools went along with Texas and voted for unfair revenue sharing.  Because if they didn't TEXAS would have left. And if Texas left then the Big12 would essentially be CUSA.  The Iowa St AD actually said that almost word for word.  Those schools decided that unfair revenue in the Big12 with Texas was their best option.  Better than fair revenue without them. 

Here is an interesting oral history of Mizzou's exit:  https://missouri.rivals.com/news/zero-trust-inside-mizzou-s-move-to-the-southeastern-conference

 I don't know that it wouldn't work. It currently works for the Big 12, and the only market outside of Oklahoma and Texas is Kansas City.  This supposed SWC would have less mouths to feed. But it would still retain its status as a P5 conference. Having Tulane would help keep the New Orleans market plus the recruiting area.
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