What is BB's real problem?

[LZH]

Let's get this straight - this isn't a hate Bret/screw Bret/fire Bret thread. No, I wasn't too fond of him at first but have since changed my mind. I want him to succeed. And not just "I want our coach/team to succeed". I want HIM to succeed. He seems like a "one of us" type man...sit down, have a cold one, and shoot the bull. I would love to see us become a big boy version of what he's trying to do.

But it's obviously not working. So....why not? Is it whiffs on hiring an assistant or two? Is it a recruiting evaluation problem? Do we not recruit well enough? Is it scheme/play calling? I know there isn't just one problem, but it's not like he's a novice and doesn't have a clue what is happening here.

Personally, I feel we play the way we've played because we're hiding how bad it would be if we didn't keep it as is. Now you guys know me, and I am being very calm and understanding here. I'm just interested in hearing the different ideas on what kept him up all night last night.

[Prestworthy]

No one can win the SEC with 3* players making up 80% of the roster. That's the biggest weakness.

[SavoySeamster]

IMHO,

The main difference last night was truly a talent gap. Bama is miles ahead of most other schools just on personnel. That makes a huge difference.

I also believe that as a team, we're slow. Watch A&M, Clemson, Washington, Ohio St., etc. The elite programs are blazing fast on both sides of the ball. An example last night, AA gets picked 3 yds deep in the end zone and the db runs all the way back for a td. In 103 yds, no one on our offense could catch him?

Does BB need to change some of his philosophy, maybe. I think Enos is a good OC. Smith may not be the best DC at this point. His group doesn't show signs of improvement.

It's been beat into the ground, but our biggest problem isn't coaching, but truly a talent gap. How do you overcome that is the $64,000 question. And it's going to take three deep talent, not just talent in certain spots if the Hogs are ever gonna get to the upper level and stay there.

[go hogues]

Let's remember this question in February when everyone is gushing over our near last place SEC recruiting class.
This is where our recruiting disadvantages really show up.

[hogcard1964]

Recruiting is an obvious problem, but they (the team as a whole) always seem to come out completely lost or unprepared.  Bama came out in the first quarter and ran the ball around end for huge gains.   So you have to think Bret was really outclassed and out coached because it seems as though Saban and Kiffin said to themselves, "A & M scorched them up the middle, so they're working on that, instead let's hit them hard on the edges."  At the beginning of the game yesterday we literally looked like a high school football team.

[DeltaBoy]

He can't get the needed talent on the Hill.

[Lanny]

Recruiting!!!!!!

Can't win a Kentucky Derby with Clydesdales

[NaturalStateReb]

I think it's two problems, both of which have impacted the other:  assistant turnover and recruiting.

Not everything has been a whiff:  the offensive skill positions are in reasonable shape. The OL problems are hard to figure in year 4, but it's not like the Pittman/Chaney duo is setting the woods on fire over at UGA. Defense has just struggled for several years now. The last really great Arkansas defenses were back in the Nutt era.

Arkansas has to get a Cracker Jack recruiter on campus. If LSU doesn't hire Orgeron, and they probably won't, Arkansas should throw big money at him to get him as a DC/Recruiting Coordinator.

[Lanny]

Arkansas better teams are when the Arkansas high school talent is better. 

[Danny J]

Definitely recruiting and as far as the D goes it's recruiting and bad coaching which includes lack of adjustments. Our D is just bad.

[Pig Worshipper]

Let's remember this question in February when everyone is gushing over our near last place SEC recruiting class.
This is where our recruiting disadvantages really show up.

That's it in a nutshell and almost everyone knows it. But none of our coaches, since joining the SEC, has been able to recruit the talent needed to be special. Oh, we've lucked out and had a few good years of home-grown high school talent, but mostly we're always trying to do more with less. There is no secret recipe for success - recruiting is the most important aspect of the game. It's not the only aspect, though, and Hugh Freeze is Exhibit A - a coach who can recruit but can't seem to put together a championship-caliber team.

I believe Coach B can put together a team but he needs some big help on recruiting.

[LZH]

Arkansas has to get a Cracker Jack recruiter on campus. If LSU doesn't hire Orgeron, and they probably won't, Arkansas should throw big money at him to get him as a DC/Recruiting Coordinator.

Now I'd pony up for that! Hell fire..... Absolutely.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Recruiting!!!!!!

Can't win a Kentucky Derby with Clydesdales

Well there it is gents.

[code red]

Recruiting. Period.  It eventually showed up. Recruiting character gets you a date in Memphis in Jan.  Recruiting athletes  Brett....it's not the big 10.

[Soooie21]

Speed, speed, speed...

[LZH]

Recruiting!!!!!!

Can't win a Kentucky Derby with Clydesdales

Well, the Auburn/Can Newton model is working pretty well for Ole Miss......

[Großer Kriegschwein]

I think it's two problems, both of which have impacted the other:  assistant turnover and recruiting.

Not everything has been a whiff:  the offensive skill positions are in reasonable shape. The OL problems are hard to figure in year 4, but it's not like the Pittman/Chaney duo is setting the woods on fire over at UGA. Defense has just struggled for several years now. The last really great Arkansas defenses were back in the Nutt era.

Arkansas has to get a Cracker Jack recruiter on campus. If LSU doesn't hire Orgeron, and they probably won't, Arkansas should throw big money at him to get him as a DC/Recruiting Coordinator.

That would put Robb Smith from hero to zero in two seasons. We need a defensive coach that can own a living room anywhere in the country. We need some speed on defense in the absolute worst way. Period.

Secondary is slow and lacks the discipline shown in other teams. We can't seem to find a serviceable linebacker since Spaight. Greenlaw should probably be playing safety, and yes, I know he had a good season last year but we need help at safety so it's "pick your poison".

[DeltaBoy]

Recruiting hire Ed O.

[Razorback de Nosferatu]

There is something wrong on the defensive side of the ball that goes well beyond recruiting. 

"Lesser"'talented teams beat "superior" teams all the time. 

If all our three star guys were truly as woeful as suggested, they'd never beat the likes of Auburn or LSU or nowadays Ole Miss.  On paper, A&M has recruited circles around Arkansas, and yet Arkansas was perhaps a couple of goal line situations away from that game being a whole lot different.

Alabama did whatever they wanted last night.  They gashed AR for practically ten yards a play.  It started on the first drive and never really got better until the writing was on the wall.

Lord knows Arkansas's defense was never going to shut them down, but there has to be a scheme issue for it to have looked as bad as it did.

Kentucky kept those dudes in check for at least a half.  Are THEIR "jimmies and joes" that much better and faster than Arkansas's?

[ZERO]

Recruiting!!!!!!

Can't win a Kentucky Derby with Clydesdales

For two days after a brutal loss, the fan base can get on the same page and discuss the weaknesses of the teams rationally. BB is a good enough game day coach. Sure, he makes his mistakes and he can always improve. But he's succeeded in a major conference by being a good coach. But this isn't Wisconsin. He needs to bring in better classes than the 25-30th ranked every year.

Not one HC out of the three we've had since the rise of highly scrutinized recruiting has been able to do this on a consistent basis. It's not necessarily any of their faults; we have a notoriously low pool of blue chip high school talent in this state. The question on my mind is can ANYONE do it consistently at this point without rolling the dice and doing it like Ole Miss?

I just hate how we can't rationally discuss any of this except on the heels of a brutal loss. Go have a look at the recruiting forum. We have a nice crop of hard-working dudes coming in eager to prove themselves at an SEC school. But they're mostly 2 and 3-star talent. You can't go in there and exclaim that this is, in fact, not something worth being excited about without being lambasted and ran off. Pointing out our recruiting weaknesses isn't going to hurt anything. I think the real question is what are the chances of high school football in Arkansas being taken as seriously as HS football in Texas, Louisiana, and Florida during our lifetime? Because that's the only sure way out of this mess.

[upperdeck_hawg]

No one can win the SEC with 3* players making up 80% of the roster. That's the biggest weakness.

So much this. Stars dont matter is what we've been telling ourselves but if you're just an average x's and o's coach, they do matter.

[italian9005]

4 years into in and we have this talent at oline. thats one of the biggest issues

[Razorback de Nosferatu]

4 years into in and we have this talent at oline. thats one of the biggest issues

At least that unit has a BIT of an excuse.

New coach. And unless you're Bama, you don't just replace guys like Smothers, Tretola, and Kirkland.  The defense is the most concerning issue IMO. 

I at least expected the defense to look C+ or B- in quality this year.

[ZERO]

There is something wrong on the defensive side of the ball that goes well beyond recruiting. 

"Lesser"'talented teams beat "superior" teams all the time. 

If all our three star guys were truly as woeful as suggested, they'd never beat the likes of Auburn or LSU or nowadays Ole Miss.  On paper, A&M has recruited circles around Arkansas, and yet Arkansas was perhaps a couple of goal line situations away from that game being a whole lot different.

Alabama did whatever they wanted last night.  They hashed AR for practically ten yards a play.  It started on the first drive and never really got better until the writing was on the wall.

Lord knows Arkansas's defense was never going to shut them down, but there has to be a scheme issue for it to have looked as bad as it did.

Kentucky kept those dudes in check for at least a half.  Are THEIR "jimmies and joes" that much better and faster than Arkansas's?

Recruiting is a very imperfect science. Even at its most accurate, the question is how much better is a low 4* than a mid 3*? Or a high 3* vs. a mid 4*? We can win with our guys. We've done it countless times against teams far better on paper. Despite that, there's a very distinct correlation between the guys constantly at the top of the year-end polls and the guys at the top of the recruiting rankings. These stats aren't lying to us. We're talking consistency here, and I don't think we're going to be consistently good without the numbers to back it up. I don't ever expect to get top 10 classes year-in and year-out, but is that really needed to have a shot at the game in Atlanta every fourth and fifth year? If we could, instead of ending 22ish-30ish every year, end 15ish-20ish every year, could we start winning 8-10 games on average, rather than 6-8 games on average?

Teams like LSU and Georgia don't know how good they honestly have it with their built-in advantages in recruiting. Both of those teams have made horrible hiring errors in the past and have suffered for it. Miles and Richt are good, competent coaches. Winning 10+ games a year and at least being in the championship talk for most of the year is a luxury the majority of fan bases don't have and is something to look forward to from January to August. That sort of entitled restlessness has been the downfall of the likes of Nebraska, Texas, and Tennessee, among others.

[colbs]

Defense

[Hawghiggs]

    We have two problems. Assistant coaches, and recruiting.  Recruiting needs to be more focused. That's on CBB. We seem to be trying to go all over the map to get recruits. When we really just need to go to Louisiana, and Texas.  The coaches should only be focusing on the four areas closes to the University.( Arkansas/Tulsa , Missouri/Kansas, Louisiana, and Texas.)  The more recruits we get from a region. The easier it gets to recruit that area in the future.

[Wild Bill Hog]

BB and his philosophy (whatever it is) will not work at the SEC level.  Plain and simple.

He has to make major changes, and I am not sure he is capable of doing it.

[ZERO]

4 years into in and we have this talent at oline. thats one of the biggest issues

Agreed. It's perplexing how we don't seem to have any identity. All of Bielema's known strengths now seem to be liabilities. Yet we have this tough as nails slinger at QB with a surprisingly above average crop of WRs. If only we had one of his signature built Ford tough lines, maybe we would be 5-1 or 6-0 right now. We probably would have made it to Atlanta last year and won 9 or 10 the year before that. We have all of these revolving pieces each year as points of strength, and none of them are matching up.

Bielema's window is about to be up. If we fail to reach a Bowl (no matter what, I think we should be clear favorites against Missouri and MSU, so I doubt this happens. A disappointing 6-7/7-6 is very possible, however) this year or if he doesn't make something big happen next year, I'm afraid he's gone. And he's just the most likeable guy we've had in my lifetime, I don't want to see him go. I like what he generally stands for. I don't want to start this BS all over again and pin my hopes on some up-and-comer.

[colbs]

BB and his philosophy (whatever it is) will not work at the SEC level.  Plain and simple.

He has to make major changes, and I am not sure he is capable of doing it.

Offensive philosophy?  They threw it 48 times and put up 400 passing yards.  The last two years offense hasn't been the problem, It's the defense. 

[Wild Bill Hog]

Could be an up-and-comer would be better than a down-and-outer.

[AFWarrior83]

We act like BAMA only beats up on Arkansas, but the fact is that they beat up on every team they play. How many games has Alabama lost in the last 4 years? Maybe 3? Alabama is a monster... The only way Arkansas can beat them is by playing a perfect game, but they are really good at forcing mistakes. We just have to bounce back and prepare for Ole Miss.

[LZH]

The only guy I can remember ever running DMac down from behind was that kid from Wisconsin in the CapOne Bowl. BB knows speed kills. Why don't we have any?

[Razorback de Nosferatu]

Recruiting is a very imperfect science. Even at its most accurate, the question is how much better is a low 4* than a mid 3*? Or a high 3* vs. a mid 4*? We can win with our guys. We've done it countless times against teams far better on paper. Despite that, there's a very distinct correlation between the guys constantly at the top of the year-end polls and the guys at the top of the recruiting rankings. These stats aren't lying to us. We're talking consistency here, and I don't think we're going to be consistently good without the numbers to back it up. I don't ever expect to get top 10 classes year-in and year-out, but is that really needed to have a shot at the game in Atlanta every fourth and fifth year? If we could, instead of ending 22ish-30ish every year, end 15ish-20ish every year, could we start winning 8-10 games on average, rather than 6-8 games on average?

Teams like LSU and Georgia don't know how good they honestly have it with their built-in advantages in recruiting. Both of those teams have made horrible hiring errors in the past and have suffered for it. Miles and Richt are good, competent coaches. Winning 10+ games a year and at least being in the championship talk for most of the year is a luxury the majority of fan bases don't have and is something to look forward to from January to August. That sort of entitled restlessness has been the downfall of the likes of Nebraska, Texas, and Tennessee, among others.

I don't think I'm being a cynic for saying that Arkansa realistically can only hope for top 25 classes every year, not top ten or fifteen.  And that should be good enough.  Not good enough to reload and compete for the west every year, but good enough to be GOOD and win bowls and take care of business when we have veterans in key places.

It-- heck, what they have now--should also be good enough, even on defense, to, say, last year, maybe force Texas Tech to punt occasionally, and this year, not look like they did last night, even though it was Bama.

I agree with most of what you said, but I do not agree a bit with anybody who writes off this defense's consistent inability to stop anybody remotely decent on offense as a "RECRUITING!" problem.  I want more 4* guys too, but this problem is severe enough it's obviously also a scheme issue.  Bama has at least been slowed down by lesser teams than AR, and AR has been exploited by lesser teams than Arkansas.

[AFWarrior83]

The only guy I can remember ever running DMac down from behind was that kid from Wisconsin in the CapOne Bowl. BB knows speed kills. Why don't we have any?

Guys like DMAC are once in a generation. And DMAC was also not 100% in that game you referenced. Felix actually looked better that day.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

The only guy I can remember ever running DMac down from behind was that kid from Wisconsin in the CapOne Bowl. BB knows speed kills. Why don't we have any?

It just seems like when we play Alabama, aTm that they are in fast forward and we are in rewind.

[Danny J]

Offensive philosophy?  They threw it 48 times and put up 400 passing yards.  The last two years offense hasn't been the problem, It's the defense.

Beat me to it AND last year in SEC games we led the SEC in scoring offense. Our D is the problem. That's where we need to get better both recruiting and coaching and that pertains especially to the back 7.

[Laughing Hog]

Play the off field game like the rest of the world............. more bagmen!

JK......... kinda, well maybe, oh hell, who am I kidding.............

[Dark Helmet Hog]

We act like BAMA only beats up on Arkansas, but the fact is that they beat up on every team they play. How many games has Alabama lost in the last 4 years? Maybe 3? Alabama is a monster... The only way Arkansas can beat them is by playing a perfect game, but they are really good at forcing mistakes. We just have to bounce back and prepare for Ole Miss.

You make a great point.

Very few teams can win a game after committing 5 turnovers and giving up 28 points off those turnovers. We needed to win the turnover battle to even have a chance in this game, and we didn't do it.

There is no question that we got owned on both sides of the line last night. I see it as a lack of speed. I don't think it's caused by poor recruiting as much as our guys are too heavy and lack mobility. I really question the direction of our strength and conditioning program.

Defensively, combine the affects of being to slow with poor schemes and you have what we've got. I am not a fan of anything about our defense, and I think most of it is the result if the system.

[colbs]

Beat me to it AND last year in SEC games we led the SEC in scoring offense. Our D is the problem. That's where we need to get better both recruiting and coaching and that pertains especially to the back 7.

Felt really good about the direction of the defense after 2014.  Since then not so much.  Going to have to make some changes in the defensive side of the ball at the end of the year.  If Mason gets fired I would love for BB to go after him.  He has built a pretty good defense at Vandy and not near the talent as any other team in the conference. 

[ZERO]

I don't think I'm being a cynic for saying that Arkansa realistically can only hope for top 25 classes every year, not top ten or fifteen.  And that should be good enough.  Not good enough to reload and compete for the west every year, but good enough to be GOOD and win bowls and take care of business when we have veterans in key places.

I don't think you're being cynical. I'm inclined to disagree slightly because 25-30 is where we've been settling, and it's never seemed to be the answer. I don't think top ten is even achievable, but top 20 seems to be both a reasonable and immediate goal. If we did that in '13 and '14, that could have been the difference between our 8-5 last year being a respectable 10-3. We should be able to win 11+ games every four or five years with an experienced and senior laden team, and take care of the lesser teams every other year. And I won't discount what you said about scheme being a problem, I just think recruiting is definitely the most glaring problem.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

No one can win the SEC with 3* players making up 80% of the roster. That's the biggest weakness.

Petrino did.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Recruiting and scheme,

Recruiting, we are recruiting the same as always maybe a little better but our best can't match elite schools like Bama.  However the deeper problem with our recruiting is recruiting to a scheme that gives us a chance to have great seasons even if we can't match Bama.

Scheme? Simple and I blame Jeff Long for this not CBB.  We will never out Bama Bama as long as Saban is there.  I don't see getting our panties in a wad over it.  However we did have a scheme that gave us a chance to be next tier great.  Long and the powers behind him choose the direction of the program.  They are the ones responsible for the culture surrounding Razorback athletics. 

I'll support CBB as long as he is here, this is not a Nutt situation but I may not have the hope in me to be as excited about our seasons as I was under Petrino.  That's just the facts of my world, if it's not you or you that's fine. 

[colbs]

Petrino did.

I must have missed the year BP won the SEC.

[Razorback de Nosferatu]

I don't think you're being cynical. I'm inclined to disagree slightly because 25-30 is where we've been settling, and it's never seemed to be the answer. I don't think top ten is even achievable, but top 20 seems to be both a reasonable and immediate goal. If we did that in '13 and '14, that could have been the difference between our 8-5 last year being a respectable 10-3. We should be able to win 11+ games every four or five years with an experienced and senior laden team, and take care of the lesser teams every other year. And I won't discount what you said about scheme being a problem, I just think recruiting is definitely the most glaring problem.

Defense is primarily what we are discussing here.

I simply think the defense is better, in terms of talent, than what we are seeing.

It's okay to struggle against Bama.  It's not okay to let them practically average ten yards a play.  And like I said, this defense has been embarrassed by teams that recruit much worse than Arkansas.

I love the Hogs and 110% support CBB. But I'm thinking, even with the exact guys AR has now, the defense should be much further along than it is now.

[The real Hogules]

Fickle fans, who jump on and off the bandwagon, like fleas on a dog.
A better crack recruiter on the staff would help, but we are who we are and unless we're willing to pay Bama type money to attract better coaches/recruiters, we really don't have the right to expect Bama type results.

[colbs]

Defense is primarily what we are discussing here.

I simply think the defense is better, in terms of talent, than what we are seeing.

It's okay to struggle against Bama.  It's not okay to let them practically average ten yards a play.  And like I said, this defense has been embarrassed by teams that recruit much worse than Arkansas.

I love the Hogs and 110% support CBB. But I'm thinking, even with the exact guys AR has now, the defense should be much further along than it is now.

I'm with you, very disappointed in the defense.  The pass defense seems to have gotten better but the run defense has taken a step back or two.

[ZERO]

Petrino did.

Petrino didn't win the freaking SEC, Jesus Christ. He didn't even come close when you look at how badly he got bent over by the actual best team each year. And his success came from a #16 ranked recruiting class that was, quite honestly, an anomaly within our state.

I was beyond happy with Petrino and would have loved to keep him. But looking back on him as the best coach we've ever had (he didn't even have time to safely distance himself from Hatfield, in all honesty) is really not healthy for anyone.

[Razorback de Nosferatu]

Fickle fans, who jump on and off the bandwagon, like fleas on a dog.
A better crack recruiter on the staff would help, but we are who we are and unless we're willing to pay Bama type money to attract better coaches/recruiters, we really don't have the right to expect Bama type results.

I don't agree with everybody in this thread but I don't see many folks jumping off the bandwagon.

And only speaking for myself and the reasonable folks I've been talking to, I don't think wanting to be competent on defense is an unrealistic Bama-esq. expectation.

[Razorback de Nosferatu]

Petrino didn't win the freaking SEC, Jesus Christ. He didn't even come close when you look at how badly he got bent over by the actual best team each year. And his success came from a #16 ranked recruiting class that was, quite honestly, an anomaly within our state.

I was beyond happy with Petrino and would have loved to keep him. But looking back on him as the best coach we've ever had (he didn't even have time to safely distance himself from Hatfield, in all honesty) is really not healthy for anyone.

A-men

[hobhog]

Petrino did.

Hilarious. I expect more posts like this.

To answer OP,  it's ALABAMA we just played. Look how hey have destroyed everyone this year. Can we let the season play out before completely doing an autopsy?

I'm concerned too but just calm down for a week and let's see what happens.