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Author Topic: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips  (Read 2494 times)

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Dr. Starcs

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2016, 10:27:17 pm »

I understand. And I don't think high school is the place for any of that and probably not even college, even though you see it at times there.

As Tim Kurkjian said, baseball players have the longest memories of any athletes.
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hoghappy

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2016, 10:40:58 pm »

How would you discipline a pitcher who drills an opposing player, Clutch? I've worked with several young players with a bit of a temper, and even a couple whose dads encourage their boys to throw at certain ones. I work with 12-15 year olds. I'm not a coach, but work with an athletic Association.
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clutch

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2016, 12:48:02 am »

How would you discipline a pitcher who drills an opposing player, Clutch? I've worked with several young players with a bit of a temper, and even a couple whose dads encourage their boys to throw at certain ones. I work with 12-15 year olds. I'm not a coach, but work with an athletic Association.

On purpose? First thing I'd do was sit them down. It'd really depend on the situation for how long, but they'd miss playing time for sure, starting for the rest of that game and extending through at least one more game. I've found that nothing speaks louder to them than when they are on the bench and you aren't speaking to them. When they see someone else starting in their place it gets to them. Plus, even the most selfish players hate the feeling of letting their team down, and that's exactly what they'll feel, and what they are doing when they are sitting on the bench.

There would also be other punishment as well. Could be anything from extra conditioning to having to carry more equipment. I prefer not to run players for punishment, but sometimes it works if it is just a little extra added to some bigger punishment.

Lastly, we'd have a talk. I'd make sure they understood the reason they were being punished and why no player on any team of mine is going to play that way. Always do the talk away from the other players. Either after everyone has left or before the next game when you can pull them to the side for a while. They will feel bad enough already, so there's no reason to embarrass them more. You let them know that this was their warning, there won't be another.

Hope this helps. One thing I've learned is that yelling at a player is rarely the right way to handle a situation. There's times when you yell, but it's usually for small things just to get their attention. The big things need to be handled in a calmer manner.

It's definitely tougher when you have the player that is being encouraged to act like that by a parent. If they are, a lot of the times you have to have a conversation with the parent too. I'd let the parent know that as badly as I wanted their kid on my team, I'm willing to cut ties with them before allowing behavior like that to continue. If the other players see you allowing it then it all spirals out of control. They lose respect for you, start acting out on their own, and the team comes apart. Sometimes the best thing for a team is to cut a cancerous player loose, no matter how good they are. One bad apple really can spoil the whole bunch.

I had a starting middle infielder this season that had a terrible temper. He was a heckuva ballplayer, but would just unravel if he screwed up. High school players are going to screw up regardless or how good they are, so even though he was really good there were multiple instances early in the season where he got heated. He'd start lashing out at other players, fans, beating himself up to the point that he just compounded his problems and started screwing up more. It cost us a game or two. I warned him that I'd had enough. The warning didn't take. The next instance he had I pulled him. Never said a word to him other than you're out right now and so and so is taking your place. He sat on the bench steaming, but you could see that he was really just mad at himself for putting himself in that situation. I never said a word to him for the rest of the game. Never raised my voice or anything. He sent me a text that night, as well as a text to the whole team apologizing for his actions. I told him to come see me the next day and we'd talk. I told him that I liked that he'd realized that he screwed up and was big enough to apologize for it, but that I had to sit him for a few games because he'd been warned and it was a message to the whole team and not just him. He had to sit there and watch a freshman play his spot for 2 games. When he came back from his suspension he was a different kid. He kept his emotions in check the rest of the season and the team went on a run because of it. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 12:59:14 am by clutch »
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southarkhog06

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2016, 08:22:33 am »

In the grand scheme of things it was an insignificant series. At the time of that homerun, it wasn't. Homeruns don't get much bigger than that.
exactly, this whole thing started because the Rangers knew as soon as he hit that homerun their season was over and they got their feelings hurt. Holding a grudge for 7 months over that is what 2 types of people do; crazy women and Rangers fans.

You are all right ALDS; I earned that ridicule I will own it.
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southarkhog06

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2016, 08:25:44 am »

On purpose? First thing I'd do was sit them down. It'd really depend on the situation for how long, but they'd miss playing time for sure, starting for the rest of that game and extending through at least one more game. I've found that nothing speaks louder to them than when they are on the bench and you aren't speaking to them. When they see someone else starting in their place it gets to them. Plus, even the most selfish players hate the feeling of letting their team down, and that's exactly what they'll feel, and what they are doing when they are sitting on the bench.

There would also be other punishment as well. Could be anything from extra conditioning to having to carry more equipment. I prefer not to run players for punishment, but sometimes it works if it is just a little extra added to some bigger punishment.

Lastly, we'd have a talk. I'd make sure they understood the reason they were being punished and why no player on any team of mine is going to play that way. Always do the talk away from the other players. Either after everyone has left or before the next game when you can pull them to the side for a while. They will feel bad enough already, so there's no reason to embarrass them more. You let them know that this was their warning, there won't be another.

Hope this helps. One thing I've learned is that yelling at a player is rarely the right way to handle a situation. There's times when you yell, but it's usually for small things just to get their attention. The big things need to be handled in a calmer manner.

It's definitely tougher when you have the player that is being encouraged to act like that by a parent. If they are, a lot of the times you have to have a conversation with the parent too. I'd let the parent know that as badly as I wanted their kid on my team, I'm willing to cut ties with them before allowing behavior like that to continue. If the other players see you allowing it then it all spirals out of control. They lose respect for you, start acting out on their own, and the team comes apart. Sometimes the best thing for a team is to cut a cancerous player loose, no matter how good they are. One bad apple really can spoil the whole bunch.

I had a starting middle infielder this season that had a terrible temper. He was a heckuva ballplayer, but would just unravel if he screwed up. High school players are going to screw up regardless or how good they are, so even though he was really good there were multiple instances early in the season where he got heated. He'd start lashing out at other players, fans, beating himself up to the point that he just compounded his problems and started screwing up more. It cost us a game or two. I warned him that I'd had enough. The warning didn't take. The next instance he had I pulled him. Never said a word to him other than you're out right now and so and so is taking your place. He sat on the bench steaming, but you could see that he was really just mad at himself for putting himself in that situation. I never said a word to him for the rest of the game. Never raised my voice or anything. He sent me a text that night, as well as a text to the whole team apologizing for his actions. I told him to come see me the next day and we'd talk. I told him that I liked that he'd realized that he screwed up and was big enough to apologize for it, but that I had to sit him for a few games because he'd been warned and it was a message to the whole team and not just him. He had to sit there and watch a freshman play his spot for 2 games. When he came back from his suspension he was a different kid. He kept his emotions in check the rest of the season and the team went on a run because of it.
excellent post clutch.
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GolfNut57

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2016, 03:50:29 pm »

exactly, this whole thing started because the Rangers knew as soon as he hit that homerun their season was over and they got their feelings hurt. Holding a grudge for 7 months over that is what 2 types of people do; crazy women and Rangers fans.

You are all right ALDS; I earned that ridicule I will own it.

Going to disagree with the bold part. It wasn't the Rangers fan base that hit Bautista with the pitch. And I am equally sure that a LOT of teams would have been pissed at Bautista had he done the bat flip and stare down at them after hitting it. Not just the Rangers. As was said on the MLB channel yesterday. Baseball players hold some of the longest grudges in sports.
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pigture perfect

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2016, 04:37:17 pm »

Baseball players are known for superstitions and grudges.
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GolfNut57

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2016, 05:24:07 pm »

Word is in.

Odor 8 games, Chavez 3 games, Andrus 1 game, Bautista 1 game, Gibbons 3 games, Bush fined, Donaldson fined

Really surprised that Kevin Pillar escaped any punishment at all since he came onto the field throwing punches. Bautista is not appealing as I understand it but Odor is. Obviously he would. Appeal might get three games knocked off of the eight but that will likely take a couple weeks before it is settled.
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GolfNut57

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2016, 05:47:23 pm »

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/178630394/rougned-odor-jose-bautista-suspended

Ok....so Pillar DID get fined. The MLB channel left that part out.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2016, 08:05:00 pm »

Bautista lost his manhood.

1 game suspension was just salt in the wound.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2016, 08:19:25 am »

Bautista lost his manhood.

1 game suspension was just salt in the wound.

Agree and I wish Odor had gotten another solid punch in and knocked him on his 6.
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southarkhog06

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2016, 09:42:19 am »

Going to disagree with the bold part. It wasn't the Rangers fan base that hit Bautista with the pitch. And I am equally sure that a LOT of teams would have been pissed at Bautista had he done the bat flip and stare down at them after hitting it. Not just the Rangers. As was said on the MLB channel yesterday. Baseball players hold some of the longest grudges in sports.
so let me get this straight, in your baseball world its not ok to pitch around a teams best hitter, but is is ok to hit someone with a 98 mph fastball after holding a grudge for 7 months then punch him in the face after he makes a tough but legal slide?
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2016, 11:20:21 am »

That's the way baseball go.

Bautista knew retaliation was coming, he just didnt react near quick enough.
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southarkhog06

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2016, 01:59:17 pm »

That's the way baseball go.

Bautista knew retaliation was coming, he just didnt react near quick enough.
Yea, well in the real world its not ok to try and injure someone unless you or your family is threatened.

The commissioner obviously lives in the real world thus the suspensions.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2016, 04:06:39 pm »

The pitcher wasn't even suspended.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 04:17:08 pm by Dr. Starcs »
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clutch

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2016, 05:09:18 pm »

The pitcher wasn't even suspended.

He was for 1 game, that's the real problem here though. Pitchers are walking away from this without any consequence. Josh Donaldson went on a good twitter rant about this last night and I fully agree with everything he said.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2016, 06:46:45 pm »

Actually, I don't think Matt Bush was suspended at all.
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clutch

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2016, 08:30:21 am »

Actually, I don't think Matt Bush was suspended at all.

You're right. Just looked it up. I can't figure out why they wouldn't suspend him. That's just stupid.
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southarkhog06

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2016, 08:55:16 am »

He was for 1 game, that's the real problem here though. Pitchers are walking away from this without any consequence. Josh Donaldson went on a good twitter rant about this last night and I fully agree with everything he said.
That's what I don't get either, lets run the numbers the league average BA is around .280 so pitchers already succeed against the batter 2/3 of the time then lets say that 1 of every 10 hits is a homer that brings us to .028, then lets just say that 1 in every 20 homers is of the magnitude of a tiebreaker in game 5 of an LDS. That means the Rangers are holding a grudge that's worth hurting a guy over for 7 months because said guy celebrated something that happens in around .0014% of MLB ABs. That may be what has always been done but it doesn't make it any less stupid.
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pigture perfect

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #69 on: May 24, 2016, 09:48:31 am »

It makes it difficult to suspend a pitcher, if the penalty is for just a game. When you don't pitch but every other day or so, just take the suspension on the day you planned on sitting out anyway. For a starter 5 day suspensions mean your start is moved back a day. To me he only way to govern a pitcher is to put a bat in their hand and make them stand in front of another pitcher.
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southarkhog06

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Re: The Bat Flip to end all Bat Flips
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2016, 09:54:40 am »

It makes it difficult to suspend a pitcher, if the penalty is for just a game. When you don't pitch but every other day or so, just take the suspension on the day you planned on sitting out anyway. For a starter 5 day suspensions mean your start is moved back a day. To me he only way to govern a pitcher is to put a bat in their hand and make them stand in front of another pitcher.
I think MLB suspensions should be for series, for a position player that limits a teams bench options and for a reliever it thins your bullpen. For a starter they may get lucky and have their start miss the series they are suspended for, but surely you can suspend them for their next start or 6 games to make the team shuffle the rotation.
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