Is the Spread offense losing it's shine?

[hobhog]

As we were smashing the black bears yesterday I kept looking down to their sideline and watching them throw up those cute little signs. You know, the ones with shooting rockets, Bart Simpson, smiley faces, Obama's head, and other odd things. Their players would look over, bob up and down, then snap the ball only to be run over by the smash mouth Hog defense.

It made me smile.

Gus and Hugh don't appear to be near as smart this year...

[phadedhawg]

I think defenses have adjusted their schemes and are more effective at disrupting the offense

[Calling All Hogs]

As I recall, Freeze admitted when they played Bama that he backed off the HUNH part some because it was resulting in too many negative plays.

[cowboy_hawg]

More game film is out on each team and each coach.  The more film to break down gives a better indication on tendencies with down and distance and field position, not to mention personell packages. 

[Nosboar Accubond]

Everything cycles. As defenses adapt other schemes become more successful. I like our direction

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Yes.  Yes it has.  It was neither innovative nor effective.  Nothing but smoke and mirrors.  Only lucky bounces, bad calls and mafia threats to head coaches ever allowed that offense to win a single game.
A Pox on the spread and all that run it (mainly orphanage arsonists and Devil Worshipers) to their eternal shame.

[TMc]

You have to be able to run the football to make that scheme excel. If you can't.., it's a mickey mouse offense.  I personally like the way BB is building the trenches and playing physical football.  When you get the lines built - you can darn near play and beat anyone.

[hobhog]

By looking at the Black Bears boards, I think Hugh's honeymoon is definitely over. Brutal stuff. Hope their players haven't quit like the fans have.

[MojaveJoe]

By looking at the Black Bears boards, I think Hugh's honeymoon is definitely over. Brutal stuff. Hope their players haven't quit like the fans have.

It's strange too. They can still have a great season.

Spreads are good as an enhancement (run-first pro-teams like the Cowboys use the spread all the time), but like was mentioned earlier if you have the lines you can pretty much choose what offense/defense to run and it will work.

[reddogjcss]

Defense has adjusted to the spread, figured out what works against it.

[coastalrazorback]

It does seem that it is beginning to be figured out. The only team that still runs it with great success from week to week aren't in the SEC, and I think that this has more to do with the defenses than anything else.

[Exit Pursued by a Boar]

I think we have to differentiate between HUNH and spread. Also, there are different kinds of spreads in terms of how the coaches get their speedsters in space.  Auburn's game is different from TCU's or Baylor's or Oregon's.  That said, I would agree that some DCs are catching up to it.  They're adjusting in terms of recruiting and adjusting in terms of scheme.  It will be interesting to see some of the SEC's better defenses against TCU or Baylor or Oregon.  Before that we'll see Bama against Auburn (I think that will be ugly as Saban puts an A&M type beat down on them, and K-State against Baylor.  I think Baylor will come out on top, but will it be 52-35 or 21-17?

EFBAB

[redeye]

I think this happens every few years and then more traditional offenses return again.  When Alabama won the 2009 NC, there weren't many teams playing smash mouth football anymore and they benefited from it.  Since then, even Alabama plays with the spread and throws a lot of passes, to the chagrin of their fans, and Arkansas has benefited from SEC teams going to the spread.

The most important point is probably that when spread offenses are popular, defenses are all geared toward them.  When pro-style offenses are popular, defenses are geared to them and so on.  So the idea is to do something others aren't doing and are not prepared to defend.

[passinghog]

The thing about a spread, HUNH offense is that it kills your defense. It's one thing to make it to the national title game, but there still hasn't been a team with that offense with a strong defense. I love offense, but it's physically impossible to have both a strong D and run the spread HUNH. You end up having a game that you should dominate or at least win handily against an average opponent and your defense gets exhausted because your offense can't control the clock.

Sal Paoloantonio even said the same about the Philadelphia Eagles this week; their defense is exhausted...and that's on the pro level.

[Mike_e]

A Mike, 2 DEs and at least one safety that know what they're doing will blow up any offensive scheme there is.

Players make plays and teams make players.

[HF#1]

It's just like anything else in football.  Good coaches make adjustments.  Whether is scheme or in recruiting. 

Bottom line is, there isn't much in football that will beat the traditional running game and pro style passing game along with physical defense.

[RockyMtnHog]

Mizzou's spread offense reminds me of TTU's and we know how that game ended.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Mizzou's spread offense reminds me of TTU's and we know how that game ended.

Except Mizzou's offense is better and their defense is light years ahead of TTU's.  Still, if BA is healthy, then we match up well with Mizzou.

[HF#1]

Except Mizzou's offense is better and their defense is light years ahead of TTU's.  Still, if BA is healthy, then we match up well with Mizzou.

Mauk is better.  The offense as a whole is probably about the same.  Their defense doesn't scare me what so ever.  If we can run the ball with any effectiveness at all, I think we win the game convincingly.

I just can't muster any fear of Mizzou after what we did to Ole Miss.  I promise our players don't fear Mizzou.  I'm sure after a little film study, they are chomping at the bit to get back on the field.

[HSVhogfan2]

A Mike, 2 DEs and at least one safety that know what they're doing will blow up any offensive scheme there is.

Players make plays and teams make players.

Exactly. And spread teams with a really good QB, (Newton, Tebow, Prescott) will always move the ball. The big knock with me on spreads was always red zone offense. I actually love watching good spread teams, but seeing a team in the shotgun on 3rd or 4th and a yard makes me as physically ill as Jeff Long makes FCJ.

[Pig in the Pokey]

As I recall, Freeze admitted when they played Bama that he backed off the HUNH part some because it was resulting in too many negative plays.

it would be hilarious if nuttbag was right about highschool all along.

[HSVhogfan2]

it would be hilarious if nuttbag was right about highschool all along.

Especially for all of the (barely) hidden Nutt worshiper on this board.

[regi]

It all goes in cycles, at one time the wishbone was considered unstoppable, than the chuck and duck. Young guys BB, Smart, Smith, Pruitt and others are pouring over film and coming up with answers. It always happens. Number one thing to do in defending the spread, just like any other offense? Tackle

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Mauk is better.  The offense as a whole is probably about the same.  Their defense doesn't scare me what so ever.  If we can run the ball with any effectiveness at all, I think we win the game convincingly.

I just can't muster any fear of Mizzou after what we did to Ole Miss.  I promise our players don't fear Mizzou.  I'm sure after a little film study, they are chomping at the bit to get back on the field.

I don't fear them.  I'm saying they're measurably better than TTU.  saying the offense is better because of Mauk is redundant.  Those offenses are about the QB.  They make it go.   If you don't have a QB, you don't have the offense...ala TTU.

As I said, we match up well against them.  All bets off if BA doesn't play, though.

[passinghog]

Controlling the ball with your offense is the #1 defense against the spread.

[hawgfan4life]

Secret to success is win LOS on both sides of ball.  Doesn't matter what offense you run, if you own the LOS, you will be successful.  Doesn't matter what offense is being ran, if the defense owns the LOS, the offense will struggle.

BB is recruiting and building his program on both lines.  Takes a while to build and develop dominating lines.  We are clearly moving in the right direction.

[KennyForAD]

The hurry Up No Huddle and the Spread are two different things.   Spread just refers to how far apart the lineman's gaps are between each other, if I'm not mistaken. In a 'spread' offensive alignment they take bigger gaps.  The two are independent of each other.  For example,  I think Petrino runs a spread offense, but not HUNH. 

[redeye]

The thing about a spread, HUNH offense is that it kills your defense. It's one thing to make it to the national title game, but there still hasn't been a team with that offense with a strong defense. I love offense, but it's physically impossible to have both a strong D and run the spread HUNH. You end up having a game that you should dominate or at least win handily against an average opponent and your defense gets exhausted because your offense can't control the clock.

Yea, I agree and would rather have a great defense any day.  I didn't always agree that defense was better, but just look at what Alabama and LSU have been able to accomplish over the years and with offenses that were often quite poor (Alabama's 2009 offense was very overrated, imo.)  Auburn's been the only team that's replaced them, but 2010 was a weak year for both and I don't think either of their defenses were as good last year.

Just look at our game yesterday against #8.  How many points came off turnovers or were scored by the defense?  I haven't totaled it yet, but I'll guess half.  That reminds me of some good LSU teams, where most of their points came from their defense or special teams.

Having said that, I believe in having a good offense, but just not at the expense of defense.  And the right offense can make the defense better, so they have a reciprocal relationship where they help each other out.

[KennyForAD]

Yea, I agree and would rather have a great defense any day.  I didn't always agree that defense was better, but just look at what Alabama and LSU have been able to accomplish over the years and with offenses that were often quite poor (Alabama's 2009 offense was very overrated, imo.)  Auburn's been the only team that's replaced them, but 2010 was a weak year for both and I don't think either of their defenses were as good last year.

Just look at our game yesterday against #8.  How many points came off turnovers or were scored by the defense?  I haven't totaled it yet, but I'll guess half.  That reminds me of some good LSU teams, where most of their points came from their defense or special teams.

Having said that, I believe in having a good offense, but just not at the expense of defense.  And the right offense can make the defense better, so they have a reciprocal relationship where they help each other out.

Why is that?   Is it because practicing HUNH affects the defenses ability to practice?

[ricepig]

Mizzou's spread offense reminds me of TTU's and we know how that game ended.

Mizzou has a running game, not anywhere the same.

[WilsonHog]

At one time, the wishbone was considered unstoppable.

[Hoggish1]

As we were smashing the black bears yesterday I kept looking down to their sideline and watching them throw up those cute little signs. You know, the ones with shooting rockets, Bart Simpson, smiley faces, Obama's head, and other odd things. Their players would look over, bob up and down, then snap the ball only to be run over by the smash mouth Hog defense.

It made me smile.

Gus and Hugh don't appear to be near as smart this year...

The game of football, no matter how much they want to "keep it safe" is still about tackling and blocking...

[Hoggish1]

Yes.  Yes it has.  It was neither innovative nor effective.  Nothing but smoke and mirrors.  Only lucky bounces, bad calls and mafia threats to head coaches ever allowed that offense to win a single game.
A Pox on the spread and all that run it (mainly orphanage arsonists and Devil Worshipers) to their eternal shame.

Love it... Two former Arkansas State coaches!  Perfect.

[DeltaBoy]

It all goes in cycles, at one time the wishbone was considered unstoppable, than the chuck and duck. Young guys BB, Smart, Smith, Pruitt and others are pouring over film and coming up with answers. It always happens. Number one thing to do in defending the spread, just like any other offense? Tackle

Rule changes on how the O line could block killed the Wishbone.

[Quickdraw]

Teams who have balance on offense and defense has always come out better in the long run. If you look at the most successful people, business etc, they have always had balance.

[tigerinhogtown]

Mizzou's spread offense reminds me of TTU's and we know how that game ended.

you need to look again.  MIZZOU is a run 1st offense, 420 rushes vs 320 passes, 2000 yards passing, 2000 yards rushing, 180 yds/game passing and 180 yds/game rushing.  we don't try to run 90 plays a game either, we keep our def off the field by rushing to the line and running the play clock down to 2-3 sec, as a result we have way too many false start & delay of game penalties.

its our defense that sets us apart - ""I'd definitely say that's the best defense we've played (against)," Tennessee running back Jalen Hurd said." - yes, they played alabama and fl & GA.

Our run defense has held teams well below their season yds per rush attempt (by over 30%) and no team rushed for their season ave yds per game against us.

[jacobp]

I don't fear them.  I'm saying they're measurably better than TTU.  saying the offense is better because of Mauk is redundant.  Those offenses are about the QB.  They make it go.   If you don't have a QB, you don't have the offense...ala TTU.

As I said, we match up well against them.  All bets off if BA doesn't play, though

Texas Tech is #19 in total offense.
Mizzou is  104 and 13th in the SEC

[Pig In The City]

Mauk is better.  The offense as a whole is probably about the same.  Their defense doesn't scare me what so ever.  If we can run the ball with any effectiveness at all, I think we win the game convincingly.

I just can't muster any fear of Mizzou after what we did to Ole Miss.  I promise our players don't fear Mizzou.  I'm sure after a little film study, they are chomping at the bit to get back on the field.

There DEs have put up serious numbers this year.  If we can control these two, we will be in good shape.

[redeye]

Why is that?   Is it because practicing HUNH affects the defenses ability to practice?

I'm not sure what you're asking?  If you're asking how an offense can help it's defense, the answer is by giving the defense a chance to rest and recuperate.  Under Petrino, for example, our defense might spend 8 minutes on the field and then go back out there after our offense scored within a couple of minutes.

I don't know the specifics with the HUNH, but I do find Auburn interesting.  They're not known for having great defenses stats wise, but their defense has long had a remarkable ability to play better in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line.  The stats are likely a result of running a no-huddle offense and I'm sure that also hurts the defensive level of play, while playing better in the 4th may be a result of having great defensive players, which they do have.  But all the talk of Auburn stealing signs is very interesting for this reason.

Plus, when your offense struggles to get on the field, they often get out of sync.  If you're running the HUNH and your offense only has a few possessions, then you have to make each of them count to win the game.  Also, 80-yard TD's are exciting, but it's easier to just gain 10 yards and make your opponents defense spend more time defending.

[sage_dragoon]

I believe the rule allowing defense time to sub if the offense does really kills the HUNH.

[The Hogfather]

Shhhhh....

Spreads are our friend!  Make them sound unstoppable!

[redeye]

Rule changes on how the O line could block killed the Wishbone.

I grew up watching the wishbone and it seemed like everyone ran it, but the only team I remember winning with it was Oklahoma.  I know Oklahoma wasn't the only team to win with it, but it seemed like coaches figured out how to defend against it.  Oklahoma continued winning with it because they had the talent to do it.  Meanwhile, all the other great teams of the era were winning with something else.

This is why I wasn't crazy about Hatfield as our coach.  Our offense varied little from everyone else at the time and we didn't have Oklahoma's talent.  It's also the reason why I like Bielema's offense, since few SEC teams run anything like it nowadays.

[Danny J]

I think we have to differentiate between HUNH and spread. Also, there are different kinds of spreads in terms of how the coaches get their speedsters in space.  Auburn's game is different from TCU's or Baylor's or Oregon's.  That said, I would agree that some DCs are catching up to it.  They're adjusting in terms of recruiting and adjusting in terms of scheme.  It will be interesting to see some of the SEC's better defenses against TCU or Baylor or Oregon.  Before that we'll see Bama against Auburn (I think that will be ugly as Saban puts an A&M type beat down on them, and K-State against Baylor.  I think Baylor will come out on top, but will it be 52-35 or 21-17?

EFBAB

Just about to post the same thing and figured I would read every post first to save me the time. You can spread the field and still run the ball. You can spread the field with big wideouts and TE's. You can spread the field with a big line and back.

You can also have a power running game running a HUNH like Auburn does. As a matter of fact we could run our exact offense we run currently with a HUNH.

[Danny J]

Mauk is better.  The offense as a whole is probably about the same.  Their defense doesn't scare me what so ever.  If we can run the ball with any effectiveness at all, I think we win the game convincingly.

I just can't muster any fear of Mizzou after what we did to Ole Miss.  I promise our players don't fear Mizzou.  I'm sure after a little film study, they are chomping at the bit to get back on the field.

Mike might be the second or at worst third best QB we have faced this year. He can run, is good at it running a 4.5, and can also make difficult throws. He has a couple of really good receivers and makes good decisions for the most part. It will be a test no doubt.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

you need to look again.  MIZZOU is a run 1st offense, 420 rushes vs 320 passes, 2000 yards passing, 2000 yards rushing, 180 yds/game passing and 180 yds/game rushing.  we don't try to run 90 plays a game either, we keep our def off the field by rushing to the line and running the play clock down to 2-3 sec, as a result we have way too many false start & delay of game penalties.

its our defense that sets us apart - ""I'd definitely say that's the best defense we've played (against)," Tennessee running back Jalen Hurd said." - yes, they played alabama and fl & GA.

Our run defense has held teams well below their season yds per rush attempt (by over 30%) and no team rushed for their season ave yds per game against us.

Indiana

[razorbackkid]

you need to look again.  MIZZOU is a run 1st offense, 420 rushes vs 320 passes, 2000 yards passing, 2000 yards rushing, 180 yds/game passing and 180 yds/game rushing.  we don't try to run 90 plays a game either, we keep our def off the field by rushing to the line and running the play clock down to 2-3 sec, as a result we have way too many false start & delay of game penalties.

its our defense that sets us apart - ""I'd definitely say that's the best defense we've played (against)," Tennessee running back Jalen Hurd said." - yes, they played alabama and fl & GA.

Our run defense has held teams well below their season yds per rush attempt (by over 30%) and no team rushed for their season ave yds per game against us.

Indiana

[redeye]

Here are our scoring drives and where they started with field position:

Starting Field Position                                Result

AR 48 after MSU punt                                TD
MS 29 after fumble                                    FG
MS 49 after punt                                      TD
AR 45 on downs                                        FG
AR endzone after interception                     TD
MS 1 after fumble                                     FG

So we scored 3 times for 17 points after starting on the MS side of the field.  On the 2 times we started on our side of the field, we began on our 45 and 48 yard line.  The final TD was Gaines interception in our endzone, which he ran back 100 yards.

This shows how important our defense was to our offense in yesterday's game.  Our best field position when we didn't score was on our last drive of the game, when we took over at the MS 41 and punted.  The 2nd best was at the AR 38, which happened twice.  In summary, we scored on every down except one, after receiving the ball on the AR 45 or better.  On the other side, the only time we scored when receiving possession on less then the AR 45 was Gaines 100-yard interception return.

So, not only did our defense outscore Ole Miss, but it also greatly helped our offensive possessions.

[upperdeck_hawg]

If you have the atheletes, you can run any scheme and be successful. Oregon is still running the spread. TCU runs the spread. That is possibly 2 out of the  4 playoff teams.

[Augustus]

By looking at the Black Bears boards, I think Hugh's honeymoon is definitely over. Brutal stuff. Hope their players haven't quit like the fans have.

Yeah, I spent quite a while looking at Ole Miss boards today, to see what their fans were saying...

I think if they win the Egg Bowl and ruin Miss State's chances at a SEC-W title (and/or a playoff), their fans will be right back on board.

They weren't expecting this one at all (honestly, I wasn't either), so I'm sure there's a little bit of Chicken Little at play in Oxford today.

[1highhog]

Well, tell me this, wasn't Auburn supposed to even be better this year than last year?  Uhh, what happened there Saint Gus, you've already dropped 3 games buddy.