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Game Changers: A Look at A History of Razorback Return Men

Started by eusebius, November 04, 2014, 08:56:21 pm

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eusebius

Arkansas has historically been marked by good, to very good, and in some cases great special teams play.  The kicking game boasts a history that is parallel with any other team in college football history, and the return game can certainly hold its own. So let's look at some of the best to play for the Hogs and their performances in the return game.

(Note: Stats prior to 1966 are incomplete for kick and punt returns tds. If you have more stats on these guys prior to '70, send them my way)

1950- Johnny Cole, 8th in the nation in punt return yards, 16 returns for 293 yards, 18.3 ypr.

1953- Lamar McHan, 6th in the nation in punt return yards, 21 ret, 233 yds, 11.1 ypr

1960- Lance Alworth: 1st in the nation in punt return yards, 18 ret, 307 yds, 17.1 ypr; 9th in the nation in kickoff return yardage, 14 returns for 328 yds, 21.9 ypr. 

1961 Alworth: 1st in nation in punt return yardage, 28 ret, 336 yds, 12.0 ypr

1962: Ken Hatfield: 2nd in nation in punt return yardage, 18 ret, 267, 14.8 ypr

1963: Hatfield: 1st in nation in punt return yards, 21 ret, 350 yds, 16.7 ypr

1964: Hatfield: 1st in nation in punt return yards, 31 ret, 518 yds, 16.7 ypr

1966: Martine Bercher: 5th in the nation in punt return yards, 24 ret, 375 yds, 15.6 ypr, 3 TD's

Return stats 1970-present
Player        PR      PRY            PRTD   KR     KRY       KRTD        TRY
Anderson        115      1004               2            22     457         0                1461      
Edmonds        93      959               0             2      42         0          1001      
Waters        64      447               2             19     431         0           878      
Jackson        53      594               2             7     121         0           715      
McFadden          0          0               0            38     926         1           926      
Jones           1        11                   0            62    1749         4                1760      
Johnson          0          0               0           119    2784      3        2748      
Adams         36       570               5             7     124       0         694      
Holloway          4        44               0            45     902       2         946      
Birmingham    52       546               0            61   1321       0        1867      
Foster           0          0               0            51   1008          0        1008      
                           
                           

  Kick returners' effectiveness are measured two ways: volume and intensity. Volume indicates that the player gets many chances and accumulates yardage over time but is not necessarily a breakaway threat and may never score a return TD. Intensity speaks to the player's big play ability and the likelihood of a TD return. A dominant returner has both, volume and intensity. This is what separates the return in men in my rankings. Some of these players churned up yardage over seasons, but never scored a TD. Others struck pay dirt multiple times but never accumulated successive seasons of significant yardage.

Here's my Baker's Dozen

13. Marvin Jackson: Jackson returned punts for the Hogs in 2001 and 2003. In that time he took two returns for TD's. Jackson is a good example of high intensity but low volume. He totaled 715 yards on just 60 combined returns. Had Jackson returned more kicks he is likely higher on the list.

12. Bobby Joe Edmonds: BJ was the perfect follow on to Gary Anderson in the return game. Edmonds went on to have a nice NFL career as a special teamer. He never cashed in for a TD on returns, but he did crack the 1000 yard mark on total return yards, 959 of those coming on punt returns.

11. Orlando Waters: 447 and 431 yards respectively in punts and kickoffs. Waters was equally effective in both phases of the return game. He scored on two punt returns, the most notable being a momentum changing score in the 4th qtr of the upset of Tennessee in 1992.

10. Derek Holloway: Holloway formed a lethal return combo with Gary Anderson on the late 70's early 80's Lou Holtz led teams. As the primary kick returner, Holloway accumulated  945 yards on 42 returns, scoring twice on kickoffs.

9. Martine Bercher: Bercher's 1966 season continued the return tradition of Alworth and Hatfield. Bercher was 5th in the nation in returns that season, 24 ret, 375 yds, 15.6 avg and a college football leading 3 TDs on punt returns.

8. Decori Brimingham: Birmingham is the textbook example of high volume return yardage. He never scored on return but he totaled 1867 return yards: 52 ret, 546 on punts, and 51 ret, 1321 on kickoffs. He benefited from four years as the primary return man in both these facets of the return game, and he performed with consistency and efficiency.

7. Gary Anderson: Like Alworth, he was a do everything back, but he also excelled in the return game. Totaling 1461 return yards, Anderson took two punts back for scores, one of those in his show stopping performance in the 1980 Hall of Fame Classic vs Tulane. Equally versatile on punts and kickoffs, he and Derek Holloway presented a potent one two punch in the return game.

6. Lance Alworth: Mr. Everything for the Hogs in the early 60's led the nation in punt return yardage in '60 and '61. Alworth ran, caught, returned kicks, and threw an occasional pass in the Hog offense. He found his niche in the AFL's wide open offenses, but flashes of that open field game were evidenced in the Hogs' return game.   He was also 9th in the nation in kickoff returns in '60. Alworth was named All American in '61

5. Darren McFadden: McFadden only returned kickoffs, and he only did that in a part time role. In just 38 returns he tallied 926 yards and a game changing TD return vs Mississippi State in 2006.  He along with Felix Jones formed the most dangerous kickoff tandem in Hog history, and one of the most lethal in SEC and NCAA history. Both were consensus All Americans and garnered multiple accolades.

4. Ken Hatfield: Hatfield possesses the most significant return in Hog history, the game changer over Texas in 1964 to lift the Razorbacks to a 14-13 win. For three straight years, Kenny led or was the 2nd best punt returner in the land. He averaged from 62-64: 14.8; 16.7, and 16.7 ypr. In  those years he totaled 1125 punt return yards.     

3. Dennis Johnson: The "Bulldozer" is the Razorbacks career leader in return yardage accumulating it all on kickoffs. From 2008-2012, in spite of injuries and coaching changes, Johnson steadily piled up yards. Johnson's return style was unique for a returner, rather than glide past defenders like the graceful Gary Anderson, or blow past them like the swift Felix Jones, Johnson ran over would be tacklers. He opted to take charging defenders head on en route to 2784 yards on 119 returns and 3TDS. Johnson is over 900 yards ahead of the next closest returner in total return yardage , Décori Birmingham.         

2. Joe Adams: Electric, is the word to describe Adams. He returned kickoffs sparingly in his career and was not always the Hogs' primary punt returner, but when the lights were on and his number was called, Adams shined. 36 returns totaled 570 yards and 5 TDs, including 4 in 2011. Adams' most noted return came against Tennessee in 2011. While Hatfield's '64 return was the most important, Adams' is the most unbelievable. For good measure Adam's topped off his college career with a punt return TD vs Kansas State in Cotton Bowl. Adams was named a 2011 consensus All American.       

1. Felix Jones: Imagine the opposition's dilemma in 2006-07 on kickoffs: kick to the best RB in the land, or kick to the best kickoff return man in the land? Their opponents tried to keep the ball out of their hands with shorter kicks or kicks through the end zone. But when mistakes were made, Jones made them pay. On 62 kickoff returns, Jones totaled 1749 yards and 4 scores. Jones was selected a consensus All American in 2007.   

Some observations:
For all the talk of the '60's defense and the '10's air attack, the return game made the difference. In close games and in a tough league, one play makes the difference. Hatfield's punt return in '64 opened the door for the national championship. Adam's return in the '11 Cotton Bowl set the tone for the Razorback victory over K-State.

Kick returners can make up for other deficiencies. Case in point was '06-'07, with Jones and McFadden. Arkansas could overcome internal play calling frustrations with the Nutt/Mustian/Malzahn fiasco with one play, a return by Jones or McFadden.

Kick returners give the underdog the chance for an upset. 1992 with Hogs trailing Tennessee, Orlando Waters returned a punt for a TD to give the Hog's a chance. Then two more big plays by the special teams:  an onside kick was recovered and Todd Wright's field goal with a just a few seconds left. All of that was not possible unless Waters returns the kick for a TD.     

Arkansas' best teams featured their best collection of special teams players: the 1960's teams; Holtz' and Hatfield's parade of kickers (Little, Ordonez, Cox, Lahay, Horne, Trainor, Wright) and Nutt's return men (McFadden and Jones) and Petrino's returners ( Johnson and Adams).

Razorback fans have been treated to exceptional special teams play, thus why there is so much frustration when it is less than stellar.  I ranked BJ Edmonds as the 12th best return man but he went on to make the Pro Bowl in 1986. Pretty good for the next to last guy on the list.  He joined the 7th guy on the list, Gary Anderson, on that roster. Alworth, Jones, and Adams all made All American as returners.  Alworth and Hatfield each led the NCAA in return yardage.
 
We need to appeal to this rich history of special teams play and hope that the next guy to put his name on this list is on the roster now or will soon be wearing Razorback red.
                               
   



These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

bphi11ips

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

 

pigbacon

This was excellent and put together very well. How nice would it be to have another freshman kickoff/punt returner to hang on to the job for four years?


poloprince

$PoLoPrInCe$

eusebius

Quote from: pigbacon on November 04, 2014, 09:25:30 pm
This was excellent and put together very well. How nice would it be to have another freshman kickoff/punt returner to hang on to the job for four years?

It would be nice. Marshall showed flashes on kickoffs and Dean's ypr is good but there's more to returning punts than just the run. I see a systemic problem around cfb regarding how to field and return punts. It's akin to flaws in other sports like not being able to shoot free throws in basketball or the inability to bunt or hit and run in baseball. It's fundamentals. I know when I played we spent a great deal of time on special teams because they made the difference in close games.     
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

elksnort

Great list.  I'll go back and read it all later.  It's been a long day. Drive across Arkansas to work then drive home.

Back to the hogs. We need explosive plays.  It's often difficult to succeed in to many methodical drives.  Some of the names us on the list, like Orlando Waters or Bobbie Joe Edmonds. Very good  Punt returning can change the game or at least keep you in it. 
This Razorback team needs all the explosive place that they can get. 

BigPapaHawg

WOO PIG

pigbacon

Quote from: eusebius on November 04, 2014, 09:40:58 pm
It would be nice. Marshall showed flashes on kickoffs and Dean's ypr is good but there's more to returning punts than just the run. I see a systemic problem around cfb regarding how to field and return punts. It's akin to flaws in other sports like not being able to shoot free throws in basketball or the inability to bunt or hit and run in baseball. It's fundamentals. I know when I played we spent a great deal of time on special teams because they made the difference in close games.     

Yes. It bothers me to see the return team at the Jr. High and High school levels sprint to the sideline once the ball is kicked. I've actually witnessed this, and it must be more common than I've realized as I've seen others post about this.

It's a huge diservice to the players and the game.

elksnort

Quote from: eusebius on November 04, 2014, 09:40:58 pm
It would be nice. Marshall showed flashes on kickoffs and Dean's ypr is good but there's more to returning punts than just the run. I see a systemic problem around cfb regarding how to field and return punts. It's akin to flaws in other sports like not being able to shoot free throws in basketball or the inability to bunt or hit and run in baseball. It's fundamentals. I know when I played we spent a great deal of time on special teams because they made the difference in close games.     
Very good point. My father coached special teams.  He was detail oriented also.  KM needs to help win an SEC game for the Hogs. 

David Barrett help when I game for Arkansas.

choppedporkextrasauce

Nice job but I think you have sold Derek Holloway somewhat short. :razorback:. I saw both Derek and Gary play in person and the Holloway/Anderson tandem was among the best in the nation and was easily one of the best we've had at one time.

elksnort

Having very good special-teams can compensate for not being that great of a team overall.  Or, make up for deficiencies.   

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: elksnort on November 04, 2014, 09:53:15 pm
Having very good special-teams can compensate for not being that great of a team overall.  Or, make up for deficiencies.   

If you don't have decent special teams play it may not matter how good you are in one of the other two phases.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

 

eusebius

Quote from: choppedporkextrasauce on November 04, 2014, 09:52:12 pm
Nice job but I think you have sold Derek Holloway somewhat short. :razorback:. I saw both Derek and Gary play in person and the Holloway/Anderson tandem was among the best in the nation and was easily one of the best we've had at one time.

Yes, I think that just points out how good our return game has been. Where would you put Holloway? Top five?     
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

downsouthhawg72

I would put Joe Adams 1st because what he did was against better competition than it was back in the day, you have bigger & faster players than you had back then. I also would put him before any kickoff returner because a kickoff returner has a running start & most of the time can see what they want to do before a punt returner can. A punt returner is the hardest job to do.
DownSouthHawg

lumphog


A_R_K_A_N_S_A_S


redeye

Quote from: eusebius on November 04, 2014, 08:56:21 pm
Razorback fans have been treated to exceptional special teams play, thus why there is so much frustration when it is less than stellar. 

That may very well be true, because I used to expect our special teams to be solid all around.  I didn't expect them to always be spectacular, but at least be dependable.  You only mentioned returns, but I'm referring to everything.

Around 20 years ago, all that changed.  Ever since, I've wondered how we could have so many problems and find myself constantly frustrated at problems we used not to have.  I suspect some are due to rule changes, which have been plentifully along the years (I'll also note that I don't like most of them), but I still question why we have so much trouble.  I realize other teams also have struggles with special teams, but it seems like we have more.

redeye

Quote from: EASYBONE1 on November 04, 2014, 10:15:43 pm
I would put Joe Adams 1st because what he did was against better competition than it was back in the day, you have bigger & faster players than you had back then. I also would put him before any kickoff returner because a kickoff returner has a running start & most of the time can see what they want to do before a punt returner can. A punt returner is the hardest job to do.

I've been watching since the mid-seventies and I'd put Adams first regardless of all that.  In my opinion, Adams was a really special player who has never been appreciated as much as he should be.  Had he played at Notre Dame, Alabama or Michigan, he probably would have a been a Heisman candidate.  No need for anyone to tell me they disagree, because I understand why, but few players have the acceleration and escapability of Adams.

Jackrabbit Hog

Adams may deserve to be first but he benefits from being so fresh on our minds.  His great returns were all spectacular, which also helps.  However, he did fumble and/or muff several, which may take away a little from his overall grade.

Bercher is the first one I actually remember; wish I could say the same about Alworth and Hatfield but I was just too young to have any memory of them.  I will say this:  statistically speaking, we OWNED the '60s and part of the '70s as Return University.  Something to have been very proud of during that era.

Personally, I would have had Anderson a lot higher.  Maybe not no. 1, but probably at no. 2.  He was electric, much like Adams, and I recall that he was pretty sure-handed as well.  He may have been the most elusive player to have ever been a Hog.  He was extremely versatile, but I always felt that Holtz wasn't quite sure how to use him, so I think he was underutilized over the course of his career.  But you can tell from the number of his returns that he was fearless and rarely let a ball hit the ground.  That's a huge plus in my book.
Quote from: JIMMY BOARFFETT on June 29, 2018, 03:47:07 pm
I'm sure it's nothing that a $500 retainer can't fix.  Contact JackRabbit Hog for payment instructions.

eusebius

Quote from: EASYBONE1 on November 04, 2014, 10:15:43 pm
I would put Joe Adams 1st because what he did was against better competition than it was back in the day, you have bigger & faster players than you had back then. I also would put him before any kickoff returner because a kickoff returner has a running start & most of the time can see what they want to do before a punt returner can. A punt returner is the hardest job to do.

I almost put Joe first. Returning punts and returning kickoffs take a different set of skills and that is why I give such credit to guys like Anderson and Birmingham who could do both. Adams had to share returns with DJ, so if DJ is not on the team, maybe Adams gets more KO returns. 
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

eusebius

Quote from: redeye on November 04, 2014, 11:02:10 pm
That may very well be true, because I used to expect our special teams to be solid all around.  I didn't expect them to always be spectacular, but at least be dependable.  You only mentioned returns, but I'm referring to everything.
Around 20 years ago, all that changed.  Ever since, I've wondered how we could have so many problems and find myself constantly frustrated at problems we used not to have.  I suspect some are due to rule changes, which have been plentifully along the years (I'll also note that I don't like most of them), but I still question why we have so much trouble.  I realize other teams also have struggles with special teams, but it seems like we have more.

I'm working on some stats and a post on the kickers and punters in our team history
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

eusebius

Quote from: redeye on November 04, 2014, 11:12:02 pm
I've been watching since the mid-seventies and I'd put Adams first regardless of all that.  In my opinion, Adams was a really special player who has never been appreciated as much as he should be.  Had he played at Notre Dame, Alabama or Michigan, he probably would have a been a Heisman candidate.  No need for anyone to tell me they disagree, because I understand why, but few players have the acceleration and escapability of Adams.

I agree with you. He was headed to USC, but then flipped to stay home with the Hogs. He certainly would have gotten more pre-season hype and there would have been more focus on his accomplishments. His return vs Tenn would have been his Heisman moment.
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

eusebius

Quote from: Jackrabbit Hog on November 05, 2014, 08:35:24 am
Adams may deserve to be first but he benefits from being so fresh on our minds.  His great returns were all spectacular, which also helps.  However, he did fumble and/or muff several, which may take away a little from his overall grade.

Bercher is the first one I actually remember; wish I could say the same about Alworth and Hatfield but I was just too young to have any memory of them.  I will say this:  statistically speaking, we OWNED the '60s and part of the '70s as Return University.  Something to have been very proud of during that era.

Personally, I would have had Anderson a lot higher.  Maybe not no. 1, but probably at no. 2.  He was electric, much like Adams, and I recall that he was pretty sure-handed as well.  He may have been the most elusive player to have ever been a Hog.  He was extremely versatile, but I always felt that Holtz wasn't quite sure how to use him, so I think he was underutilized over the course of his career.  But you can tell from the number of his returns that he was fearless and rarely let a ball hit the ground.  That's a huge plus in my book.

Gary Anderson is one of my favorite Hogs of all time so I was actually cautioning against my own bias in the rankings. He led the Hogs at different times in receiving, rushing, and punt returns. I agree that he was a player ahead of his time, but also a player that came along after his time. What I mean is that had he been in the 60's, his versatility would have been viewed as a plus, like Alworth. But in the 70's and 80's college football was moving toward that dominant tailback or power back: Griffin, Dorsett, Campbell, White, Rogers, Allen, Walker, Rozier. In the late 80's and 90's it started to swing back the other way: Tim Brown, Rocket Ismail, Cordell Stewart, Antwan Randall El guys that could play multiple offensive positions, and then in the 2000's guys like Reggie Bush, a do it all back, who got the publicity. I think if Anderson played in today's style of spread offenses, we would really see what he could do on WR screens and jet sweeps.

And just for the sheer enjoyment here's some Anderson highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anVdXq60J6c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gL_bJQEO_s
     
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

 

ICEman

"College football is a sport that bears the same relation to education that bullfighting does to agriculture."

pignparadise

Martine Bercher made All American in 1966. He is listed as a Defensive Back. They did not list return men so a big part of him making it was his return yardage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_College_Football_All-America_Team
"The race is long.. and in the end it's only with yourself.....", Baz Luhrman "Sunscreen"

eusebius

Quote from: pignparadise on November 05, 2014, 02:17:09 pm
Martine Bercher made All American in 1966. He is listed as a Defensive Back. They did not list return men so a big part of him making it was his return yardage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_College_Football_All-America_Team

Thanks for the info.

I think the FWAA started recognizing return men in 1973, Steve Odom of Utah was the first that I see listed. 
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

eusebius

Per the 2014 Arkansas media guide:

Longest punt TD returns are as follows:

PUNT RETURNS (YARDS)
97 Joe Adams vs. Ole Miss........................................................2010
95 Ken Hatfield vs. Tulsa...........................................................1963
90 Terry Stewart vs. Wichita State..............................................1969
87 Orlando Watters vs. South Carolina.........................................1992
81 Ken Hatfield vs. Texas..........................................................1964
80 Gary Anderson vs. Tulane.....................................................1980
80 Ken Hatfield vs. Texas Tech...................................................1963
79 Gary Adams vs. Baylor.........................................................1968
78 Ken Hatfield vs. Texas Tech...................................................1964
75 Michael James vs. Texas Tech................................................1991
75 Aubrey Fowler vs. North Texas...............................................1947
74 Marvin Jackson vs. Georgia...................................................2001
73 Marvin Jackson vs. New Mexico State.....................................2003
73 George Walker vs. Rice.........................................................1954
71 Orlando Watters vs. Tennessee..............................................1992
71 Ken Hatfield vs. TCU............................................................1962
70 Johnny Cole vs. Texas..........................................................1950

By my count Hatfield and Adams each have five career punt return TD's

The media guide is missing some return stats that ESPN's Encyclopedia of College Football has, namely Bercher's 3 TD's in '66.   
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

elksnort


BigSexyHog

Lebron raised money for kids... Rotnei stole crap from the equipment room

EastexHawg

Ken Hatfield is the most accomplished return man in our history.  He was eligible three years and finished 2nd, 1st, and 1st in the nation in punt returns.  He holds the career yards per return average record by a mile.

He also made the most important return, maybe the biggest play of any kind, in Arkansas history when he took a punt 81 yards for a TD against #1 Texas in Austin in 1964.  That play was instrumental in the Hogs winning a national championship.

I was in the stands when Joe Adams made his famous return against Tennessee.  It was a great and memorable play, but Tennessee was a 5-7 team that was already 0-5 in conference the night we played them.  The final score was 49-7, so even without Joe's return we would have blown out a poor team anyway.

eusebius

Quote from: EastexHawg on November 06, 2014, 09:50:08 am
Ken Hatfield is the most accomplished return man in our history.  He was eligible three years and finished 2nd, 1st, and 1st in the nation in punt returns.  He holds the career yards per return average record by a mile.

He also made the most important return, maybe the biggest play of any kind, in Arkansas history when he took a punt 81 yards for a TD against #1 Texas in Austin in 1964.  That play was instrumental in the Hogs winning a national championship.

I was in the stands when Joe Adams made his famous return against Tennessee.  It was a great and memorable play, but Tennessee was a 5-7 team that was already 0-5 in conference the night we played them.  The final score was 49-7, so even without Joe's return we would have blown out a poor team anyway.

EastTex maybe you can help clarify a stat deficiency. In the ESPN college football records, in 1962, it has Hatfield as averaging 14.8 ypr (18 ret for 257 yds). In the Razorback media guide it has him with 28.3 ypr (7 ret for 198 yds). That's a big discrepancy. If it is true that Hatfield averaged 28.3, then that would effect my rankings, and I would move him up.

I wouldn't want to kick to either Adams of Hatfield, but I think I would fear Adams slightly more because of his straightline speed. I also wondered why Felix Jones never returned punts (Hillis and Fish and Norton returned them from 05-07)? He was a good receiver, judged balls well on kickoffs, not sure why he didn't . . 

   
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

Mike_e

Quote from: eusebius on November 06, 2014, 10:56:55 am
EastTex maybe you can help clarify a stat deficiency. In the ESPN college football records, in 1962, it has Hatfield as averaging 14.8 ypr (18 ret for 257 yds). In the Razorback media guide it has him with 28.3 ypr (7 ret for 198 yds). That's a big discrepancy. If it is true that Hatfield averaged 28.3, then that would effect my rankings, and I would move him up.

I wouldn't want to kick to either Adams of Hatfield, but I think I would fear Adams slightly more because of his straightline speed. I also wondered why Felix Jones never returned punts (Hillis and Fish and Norton returned them from 05-07)? He was a good receiver, judged balls well on kickoffs, not sure why he didn't . . 



Just a guess but he was the smaller of the three backs and it also took him just a tiny bit to get going (as compared to DMac anyway) so why risk injuring him on a punt return where he might get hit immediately without being able to defend himself?  Usually you get a 10 to 15 yard start on KOs.
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eusebius

Quote from: Mike_e on November 06, 2014, 11:03:41 am
Just a guess but he was the smaller of the three backs and it also took him just a tiny bit to get going (as compared to DMac anyway) so why risk injuring him on a punt return where he might get hit immediately without being able to defend himself?  Usually you get a 10 to 15 yard start on KOs.

Mike_e that's a possibility but most punt returners are not big backs: Anderson was about 185, Hatfield was 175 or so, Adams 185-190. But Jones was a solid 205-210 at Arkansas so  I don't know if wear and tear and durability was the issue. He also got half the carries McFadden got (785 to 386) so he should have been fresh. My philosophy would be have him on the field for as many touches as possible including punts. There was also the whole Nutt comment about "Hillis being a good punt catcher." But we know that in 2006 special teams hurt us in the SEC championship vs Florida on Fish's muffed punt. 
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

Virgil

It's not what you push but what pushes you!!

eusebius

These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

demonHOG1013

Very good post.  If our kick coverages where as good as our return teams we might have more than one NC.  Definately an SEC championship or two

EastexHawg

Quote from: eusebius on November 06, 2014, 10:56:55 am
EastTex maybe you can help clarify a stat deficiency. In the ESPN college football records, in 1962, it has Hatfield as averaging 14.8 ypr (18 ret for 257 yds). In the Razorback media guide it has him with 28.3 ypr (7 ret for 198 yds). That's a big discrepancy. If it is true that Hatfield averaged 28.3, then that would effect my rankings, and I would move him up.

I think that's a misprint in the media guide.  I don't think he or anyone else ever averaged over 28 yards per return for a season. 

If you add up the number in your list for Hatfield from 1962-64, you get 70 returns for 1,135 yards.  That's an average of 16.21 per return.  This website if far from official, but it says Kenny averaged 16.01 for his career. 

(Okay, apparently that website is censored/not allowed on Hogville)

I don't have my media guide handy so I don't know if he averaged 16.01 or 16.21, but if he had gained 198 yards on 7 returns in 1962 his totals for three years would be:

Returns: 7+21+31=59
Yards: 198+350+518=1,066
Average: 1,066/59=18.06

eusebius

Quote from: EastexHawg on November 06, 2014, 12:59:25 pm
I think that's a misprint in the media guide.  I don't think he or anyone else ever averaged over 28 yards per return for a season. 

If you add up the number in your list for Hatfield from 1962-64, you get 70 returns for 1,135 yards.  That's an average of 16.21 per return.  This website if far from official, but it says Kenny averaged 16.01 for his career. 

(Okay, apparently that website is censored/not allowed on Hogville)

I don't have my media guide handy so I don't know if he averaged 16.01 or 16.21, but if he had gained 198 yards on 7 returns in 1962 his totals for three years would be:

Returns: 7+21+31=59
Yards: 198+350+518=1,066
Average: 1,066/59=18.06

Per the Razorback media guide: Hatfield's career totals were 1153 yds on 72 returns.
Hatfield's career avg was 16.01 and Adam's was 15.83

The highest for a season was Johnny Cole, 18.31 in 1947.

The media guide is online at  http://www.nwahomepage.com/fulltextsports/d/story/2014-arkansas-razorbacks-media-guide/21077/Ibbb7XvSMEC72UJjtdXI7A



 

These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

hogsanity

These guys were all exceptional players that contributed as kick returners because of that. I think this just points out the lack of true play makers on the active roster right now.
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Jackrabbit Hog

Quote from: hogsanity on November 06, 2014, 03:06:01 pm
These guys were all exceptional players that contributed as kick returners because of that. I think this just points out the lack of true play makers on the active roster right now.

I think you may be onto something there.
Quote from: JIMMY BOARFFETT on June 29, 2018, 03:47:07 pm
I'm sure it's nothing that a $500 retainer can't fix.  Contact JackRabbit Hog for payment instructions.

EastexHawg

I still have the 1963 or 1964 (don't remember which now) Texas Football magazine with a full page picture of Ken Hatfield and the title "A Sizzler At Safety".

The fact that I remember it means an article and picture like that obviously had a huge effect on a kid like me, living 320 miles away in East Texas.

Kenny was one of my dad's two or three all-time favorite Hogs, and he had seen almost all of them going back to Herman Bagby in the early to mid 1920s.

wupigsuey

A Hogville member since July 24, 2004<br /><br />The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes, <br />the response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

eusebius

Quote from: EastexHawg on November 06, 2014, 03:23:39 pm
I still have the 1963 or 1964 (don't remember which now) Texas Football magazine with a full page picture of Ken Hatfield and the title "A Sizzler At Safety".

The fact that I remember it means an article and picture like that obviously had a huge effect on a kid like me, living 320 miles away in East Texas.

Kenny was one of my dad's two or three all-time favorite Hogs, and he had seen almost all of them going back to Herman Bagby in the early to mid 1920s.

So do you think as far as Hog history goes, Hatfield gets proper recognition as being one of the best ever? He was left off the All American teams in 63 and 64. Looking at his punt returns, I don't know of anyone in college football who has ever had five punt return TD's of 71 yds plus. Pretty remarkable no matter what era. I don't know maybe I should have had him #1 :) , but DJ is the all time yds leader and Adams and Jones were consensus AA. Can't go wrong with any of them.       
These things I know: There's no doubt Gary Anderson was very underrated . . Ike Forte had the best number ever for a running back and the best thing about the option was that last second pitch right before the DE hits the quarterback.

EastexHawg

Quote from: eusebius on November 06, 2014, 04:11:28 pm
So do you think as far as Hog history goes, Hatfield gets proper recognition as being one of the best ever? He was left off the All American teams in 63 and 64. Looking at his punt returns, I don't know of anyone in college football who has ever had five punt return TD's of 71 yds plus. Pretty remarkable no matter what era. I don't know maybe I should have had him #1 :) , but DJ is the all time yds leader and Adams and Jones were consensus AA. Can't go wrong with any of them.     

No, I don't think Hatfield gets enough recognition for his playing career.  During a decade when Arkansas was Punt Return U (Alworth, Bercher, Hatfield, Gary Adams, Terry Stewart) Hatfield stood above the rest.

But, as you said, you can't go wrong with the guys you named.