Arkansas and their 2, 5 man rotation....

[azhog10]

I bring this up as something to light heartedly discuss. Not that I truly believe we can, but there has been a lot of talk of Kentucky throwing out two 5 man rotations with all their talent and the need to try to give their "studs" playing time. After reading the evals from everyone. What would be your two 5 man rotations? I am not saying I think we are talented or deep enough to do that. But, if we are, what would they be?

I will start, now remember I am not saying that my first 5 would be the best 5. I'm trying to somewhat equal out what I think would be equally competitive 5 man rotations.

1st group
PG Durham
SG Bell/Madden(Couldn't decide)
SF Qualls
PF Harris
P  Portis

2nd group
PG Madden/Beard (Couldn't decide)
SG Beard/Bell (Couldn't decide)
SF Miles
PF Williams
P Kingsley

[intelligence]

1st group

G Madden
G Qualls
F Miles
F Portis
C Kingsley

2nd group

G Durham
G Bell
F Williams
F Harris
C Thompson

My reasoning on this:

The first group of guys have plenty of people who can create their own shot. The second group i added in Durham to help the second team score on par with the first team. Both lineups provide adequate size and offense. Bell would have a green, green, money green light haha

[Big Nasty 34]

I would go with:

1st:
Durham
Madden
Qualls
Williams
Portis

2nd:
Beard
Bell
Miles
Harris
Kingsley

First group has good scoring, size, and lots of athleticism to press and play as fast as coach wants

Second group has good scoring still with Bell and Harris, with solid D with Miles and Kingsley

Both have a nice mixture of young guys and veterans too.
Would like to see this actually.

[opineonswine]

Definitely Madden.

[mbgrulz]

I agree that Madden will be in the lineup and I say he averages the most minutes of any guard we have.

I think we still will see him a lot at the 1. I'm hoping Durham and Beard are the answers at PG, but Madden is a proven PG on a 22 win team.

[-Blu]

After last night I would say this is the 10 man rotation.

Group 1
Durham
Madden
Qualls
Harris
Portis

Group 2
Beard
Bell
Miles/Babb
Williams
Kingsley

[-Blu]

I would go with:
1st:
Durham
Madden
Qualls
Williams
Portis

TBH, I would go with that group as well, really liked what I saw from Williams last night, he was the most impressive between him, Harris, and Miles.  Still think Harris gets the start because of his experience last year.

[bjl]

After last night I would say this is the 10 man rotation.

Group 1
Durham
Madden
Qualls
Harris
Portis

Group 2
Beard
Bell
Miles/Babb
Williams
Kingsley

beat me to it.  I believe this is what we will primarily see also.

If we ever needed a "big" lineup, we could go with
Madden
Qualls
Miles
Portis
Kingsley   
would provide a lot of length and strength.  This would need to be a feed the stud down low to work, letting everything run through Bobby, who can pass when double teamed.  I know it won't happen much, if any, but I sure would like to see it.  If a team is able to dictate the flow of the game, and slow us down...this counters quite well.

[WarPig88]

After last night I would say this is the 10 man rotation.

Group 1
Durham
Madden
Qualls
Harris
Portis

Group 2
Beard
Bell
Miles/Babb
Williams
Kingsley

Your second group probably needs a scorer added to it. Otherwise, it looks pretty good.

[opineonswine]

What I like is there doesn't look like much drop off between group one and group two.  It will wear the competition completely ragged.

[Scott7703]

My first group would be

Durham
Madden
Qualls
Portis
Kingsley

Beat them around in the rim on both ends.

[-Blu]

Your second group probably needs a scorer added to it. Otherwise, it looks pretty good.

If they look anything like they did last night... Beard, Bell, Williams, and Kingsley can all score the ball.  Kingsley is much improved on the offensive end, his numbers and minutes will double this year.

[WarPig88]

If they look anything like they did last night... Beard, Bell, Williams, and Kingsley can all score the ball.  Kingsley is much improved on the offensive end, his numbers and minutes will double this year.

How did the overall team speed look to you last night?

I remember going to the red/white game in Barnhill in 93 with my brother and within the first couple of minutes we looked at each other and said this team is going to win it all. It was insane how fast they had become even compared to the season before.

[HF#1]

Durham
Madden
Qualls
Harris
Portis

Beard
Bell
Williams
Miles
Kingsley

Babb and Thompson spell guys off the bench.

[HF#1]

I will say that I love this 5 though....  This should be our go to imo...

Durham
Madden
Qualls
Kingsley/Harris
Portis

[Biggus Piggus]

I bring this up as something to light heartedly discuss. Not that I truly believe we can, but there has been a lot of talk of Kentucky throwing out two 5 man rotations with all their talent and the need to try to give their "studs" playing time. After reading the evals from everyone. What would be your two 5 man rotations? I am not saying I think we are talented or deep enough to do that. But, if we are, what would they be?

I will start, now remember I am not saying that my first 5 would be the best 5. I'm trying to somewhat equal out what I think would be equally competitive 5 man rotations.

1st group
PG Durham
SG Bell/Madden(Couldn't decide)
SF Qualls
PF Harris
P  Portis

2nd group
PG Madden/Beard (Couldn't decide)
SG Beard/Bell (Couldn't decide)
SF Miles
PF Williams
P Kingsley

Madden is going to be in the first group. Is in the first group. Locked up.

The either/on for Portis and Kingsley is just wrong. Well, for some opponents it is. Portis really needs to play the four. Kingsley needs to play the five. Don't expect to see that often, but that's the best way to use them.

Yes, you'll see Williams and Harris duke it out for PT at the four. No assurance that Harris wins out either. It's really close. First one that blinks and plays defense gets the starting job.

Qualls last year was a 3-4 who thought he was a 2-3. Last night, Qualls had no blocks or steals -- disappointing -- but at least he had eight rebounds to go with his 18 field goal attempts.

Qualls went to the free throw line one time in a game with 36 fouls called on both teams. He believes he is a finesse player. Where's the defense? Where's the banging inside? Qualls views himself as a shooter. GFL. But let's have a flashing red light: Qualls was whistled for three fouls. THIS IS A BIG DEAL. Qualls averaged one personal foul per game last season. That was too finesse.

The only players who have a chance to start at point guard are Madden and Jabril Durham. Madden had 11 assists last night. Second best was Watkins with six. Watkins also had five fouls, so I love him.

Of course MA is going to rotate through all sorts of lineups, so starter does not mean the same for every position. Portis and Qualls are starters. Literally everybody else is malleable.

Did you know the leader in steals last night was Moses Kingsley? The only other Red player with a steal was Beard. Only other one.

Offense-first, hate playing defense: Madden, Bell, Qualls, Williams

Loves playing defense: Kingsley, Miles, Babb

Somewhere in between: Harris (a new recruit to this category), Portis, Beard, Durham

See any problem?

The nice part last night was you could see Williams has bought into the notion that if you hate to play defense, you'd better be able to rebound. Same with Portis. The two combined for 24 rebounds. And Harris added eight.

Guys not afraid of contact: Madden, Kingsley, Miles, Thompson, Beard, Durham, Watkins, Williams.

Played good defense without fouling: Babb.

One foul in 38 minutes playing inside: Portis.

No fouls, no excuses: Bell, Harris.

This team still is a weird mix of skills, preferences and aversions. I very much doubt we're going to see this Razorback team set any defensive records. It is well equipped to score and rebound (well enough). I still believe this is a roster designed for a more conventional basketball philosophy. You do not have any natural ballhawks, and the likely starters include absolutely zero defensive aces.

This style is designed to allow some easy stuff, so you'll never get a great defensive rebounding percentage. You're supposed to compensate with turnover margin. This lineup is not going to force gobs of turnovers, don't believe.

Look at Arkansas vs. Cal last season. Cal dominated the boards and took the Hogs out of their style. Also scored way too often on second chances. It was demoralizing. Because of style limitations, the Hogs will never be a 70% defensive rebounding team. They have to compensate with a combination of good FG% defense and forced turnovers.

Last night you saw some hope that the Hogs will defend the perimeter. Inside the arc, either they laid off the D, or the team has some great scorers, or the D is a problem. Maybe more than one answer. The pressure aspect was almost nonexistent, but that could be Red-White syndrome.

For being a game with seven-man rosters, it wasn't slow. More than 80 possessions. That part was nice.

I'm thinking the offense is going to be pretty effective and flexible. A lot of guys can be "fix it" players MA can put in when a certain matchup is causing problems. But we're not going to get everybody off the court who's a chronic defensive liability. We're not going to play a matchup zone or something that would compensate. Arkansas will lose to opponents who can score efficiently and also play a strong combo of shot-denial and defensive rebounding emphasis.

My call.

[PigWig]

Obviously last night was a small sample size, but Beard was an absolute baller accumulating 18 points (on 70% shooting), 3 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 steal, and 0 turnovers in his 24 minutes of play.  Personally I'd go:

PG- Beard
SG- Madden
SF- Qualls
PF- Kingsley
PF- Portis

I'd then have Durham, Bell, Harris, Williams, and Miles as my first 5 off the bench.  If anyone thinks Madden, Qualls, or Portis won't be starting, you either didn't pay attention last season, didn't follow anything this offseason, or didn't watch the game last night.  Those 3 are far and away the best 3 players on the team with Portis leading the way as a legit NBA talent.

[Atlhogfan1]

I bring this up as something to light heartedly discuss. Not that I truly believe we can, but there has been a lot of talk of Kentucky throwing out two 5 man rotations with all their talent and the need to try to give their "studs" playing time. After reading the evals from everyone. What would be your two 5 man rotations? I am not saying I think we are talented or deep enough to do that. But, if we are, what would they be?

I will start, now remember I am not saying that my first 5 would be the best 5. I'm trying to somewhat equal out what I think would be equally competitive 5 man rotations.

1st group
PG Durham
SG Bell/Madden(Couldn't decide)
SF Qualls
PF Harris
P  Portis

2nd group
PG Madden/Beard (Couldn't decide)
SG Beard/Bell (Couldn't decide)
SF Miles
PF Williams
P Kingsley

I think some missed the intent of your post. 


Concerning post Biggus regarding your defensive comments. 

[Atlhogfan1]

How did the overall team speed look to you last night?

I remember going to the red/white game in Barnhill in 93 with my brother and within the first couple of minutes we looked at each other and said this team is going to win it all. It was insane how fast they had become even compared to the season before.

I don't believe we have had any team faster than 92-93.  93-94 played fast because they had developed the instincts necessary to play Nolan's defenses to go along with great offensive skill and a PG who understood pace.   As it relates to our current team, I don't know if the returnees have developed those instincts yet even with their athleticism.

[azhog10]

I think some missed the intent of your post. 


Concerning post Biggus regarding your defensive comments.

Yes he did. But that's fine. Brings out some different thoughts and concerns of folks. It was meant to spark conversation even if it took off in a different direction.

[WarPig88]

I don't believe we have had any team faster than 92-93.  93-94 played fast because they had developed the instincts necessary to play Nolan's defenses to go along with great offensive skill and a PG who understood pace.   As it relates to our current team, I don't know if the returnees have developed those instincts yet even with their athleticism.

Been going to games since 78. The 93-94 team was the fastest I can ever remember.

What separated them from previous teams was the ability of the big guys to run. Lee Wilson was incredibly fast before he hurt his knee and Robinson was not a plodder either at that point because he wouldn't suffer his foot injury until early in the season the next year.

But even the smaller guys were faster in transition, I am talking sprinting, than they were the year before.

I will never forget it. The contrast was stark.

[Biggus Piggus]

I think some missed the intent of your post. 


Concerning post Biggus regarding your defensive comments. 

My post pretty much had nothing to do with his. Just an excuse to comment on MA's plans vs. my insidious and evil machinations.

[Big Nasty 34]

Obviously last night was a small sample size, but Beard was an absolute baller accumulating 18 points (on 70% shooting), 3 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 steal, and 0 turnovers in his 24 minutes of play.  Personally I'd go:

PG- Beard
SG- Madden
SF- Qualls
PF- Kingsley
PF- Portis

I'd then have Durham, Bell, Harris, Williams, and Miles as my first 5 off the bench.  If anyone thinks Madden, Qualls, or Portis won't be starting, you either didn't pay attention last season, didn't follow anything this offseason, or didn't watch the game last night.  Those 3 are far and away the best 3 players on the team with Portis leading the way as a legit NBA talent.

I will say that I love this 5 though....  This should be our go to imo...

Durham
Madden
Qualls
Kingsley/Harris
Portis

Leaving Williams, a 6-8 wing, to defend opponents big men?

[PigWig]

Leaving Williams, a 6-8 wing, to defend opponents big men?

Or you take Kingsley out at the first 4 minute time out and bring him back in when Portis sits at a later timeout. There are plenty of ways to get those two on the court together sometimes without having both of them on the bench together. Or you go small and press like crazy against the opponent's reserves while your starters rest. Lots of options with the depth we have.

[Big Nasty 34]

I think the point of the thread, and OP, was if we subbed 5 men at a time having 2 separate units. This isn't a thread about starters, we have that.

In real life I agree. BP and MK should get significant time together!

[azhog10]

I think the point of the thread, and OP, was if we subbed 5 men at a time having 2 separate units. This isn't a thread about starters, we have that.

In real life I agree. BP and MK should get significant time together!

Thays correct. That's also why I went with Madden on the 2nd unit. I agree no way in real life does he not start. But I don't think Beard is a PG yet, so to give the 2nd group a legit PG I went with Madden. I wouldn't start Portis and Kingsley together if we are doing seperate 5 man rotations for obvious reasons.