A fact. And a case for stability.

[Vantage 8 dude]

You are insulting anyone with a brain by insinuating that it was Petrino's fault that players weren't tailored to run Bielema's scheme.

That's just idiocy.

I'm not going to fault any player that might still be with us, especially on offense, that were recruited by CBP and yet are still playing in CBB's system. Duh, it don't take a rocket scientist of even a football brain (which you definitely AREN'T) to realize that Petrino used more of a spread (not in the truest sense) system utilizing more wideouts and edge speed and such as opposed to Bielema's more physical approach to the game. While both have sought to establish some sense of balance, the truth of the matter is that CBB tends to advocate a much more "old school" "pound it first" to set up the pass style. Interesting that while we've certainly had much better success than last year in establishing the pass, in the UGA game it was in part our going away from the run first approach-I suspect primarily due to our falling behind as much as we did so early-that got us very much out of our game plan. 

Again, I'll not take the viewpoint that a significant change in the offensive mindset between the two HCs is in anyway the fault of our players. However, the fact is that at times they have struggled fully implementing the more physical style of Bret's plan of attack. Under the circumstances it shouldn't be surprising in the least.

[Atlhogfan1]

  I'm really tired of arguing this, but:

1.  Petrino left behind Tyler Wilson, Cobi Hamilton, Chris Gragg, Knile Davis, Dennis Johnson, Jonathan Williams, Kiero Small, Kody Walker, Keon Hatcher, Brey Cook, Mitch Smothers, Travis Swanson, Alvin Bailey, Luke Charpentier, and others on offense.  He left players like Mekale McKay who left because they didn't want to play in the new system.  He also left the starting QB of the last two years, Brandon Allen.  Petrino never had the chance to develop Allen and play him in his totally different system, so it's pretty hard to say how Allen's career may have been been altered if Bobby had remained our coach.

2.  Petrino didn't recruit defensive players to replace the talent that left after the 2012 Cotton Bowl?  Have you told Trey Flowers, Chris Smith (who played two years after Petrino left), Darius Philon, and Taiwan Johnson how untalented they are?  He also left Tevin Mitchel, Will Hines, Rohan Gaines, and Jared Collins...three of whom have started games this season in year three after Petrino left...along with the four leading tacklers from last year and Otha Peters, who was a blue chip "get" at linebacker before Bielema tried to convert him to fullback and he moved on.


He also left Zach Hocker.  Wouldn't it be nice to have him right about now?

As I said, I get tired of arguing these points...but people keep bringing them up as if they think they'll slide them into the conversation without anyone noticing.

I'm tired of it too.  Not sliding darn in. 

1.  Your first several players finished their eligibility in 2012. 

He may have left two starting qb's in Mitchell and BA had he not gotten himself fired.  Although, he never did seem to make Mitchell the likely successor to Wilson.

2.  Flowers and Smith are/were good college defensive players.  Philon is turning into one as well.  There was a dropoff in defensive depth and talent from 2011.  Perhaps this season, the depth and talent would have returned to where it needed to be to have a competent defense. 

Good post and I also agree with another poster above when it comes to our AD hiring a coach with almost a total 180 in philosophy and style. I think hiring CBB was a good decision and Long had to know it would take 2-3 years before we started to see results. We have yet to see the results as far as wins and losses and we may or may not. Time will tell.

The style wasn't a 180 degrees.  Some of you think if we would have brought in someone to install an offense like Baylor's, Ok St's, Clemson's, TT's, Wash St's, Cal's, Oregon's etc that it would have been an easy transition as if those offenses are like Bobby's. 

[Vantage 8 dude]

http://divorceandrenewal.com/how-to-stop-blaming-your-ex-and-why-it-will-help/

If I'm not terribly mistaken you previously posted this same link (or one very similar to it). Point is it didn't work then and I seriously doubt it will now so please let it go.

[WarPig88]

Does that look like I'm bashing Brandon Allen to you?

Do you get frustrated and just start throwing out random crap about board names and posters you didn't like in the past? 
I'm more of a brunette, sorry to disappoint you.

He's hoping to get us banned or something because we don't share his opinions all the time.

I am a live and let live type. I really don't understand the level of disdain some Hog fans have for their fellow Hog fans.

[EastexHawg]

1.  Your first several players finished their eligibility in 2012. 

And Petrino finished his coaching with the 2011 season.  Was he supposed to come back and recruit for the program the last few years after he was fired?

Some of you keep talking about Petrino's recruiting as if he would only be allowed to play the guys he signed 4-5 years ago if he was still here.  What about infusing new talent each year?  Would he have been allowed to do that, too?  Should Bielema not be allowed to play Alex Collins, Martrell Spaight, Denver Kirkland, Tretola, and Skipper because they just signed last year?

[Atlhogfan1]

And Petrino finished his coaching with the 2011 season.  Was he supposed to come back and recruit for the program the last few years after he was fired?

Some of you keep talking about Petrino's recruiting as if he would only be allowed to play the guys he signed 4-5 years ago if he was still here.  What about infusing new talent each year?  Would he have been allowed to do that, too?  Should Bielema not be allowed to play Alex Collins, Martrell Spaight, Denver Kirkland, Tretola, and Skipper because they just signed last year?

He was supposed to have recruited well through the Feb 2012 class to his program.  He did not.  And because he didn't along with other contributing factors, our program declined which makes Bobby partially responsible for the situation we are in along with his lack of leadership and his inability to build strong coaching staffs.  The further we get from his program, the less responsibility he will hold. 

Bielema is responsible for fixing the situation and must recruit and develop his own players. 

[Danny J]

I'm tired of it too.  Not sliding darn in. 

1.  Your first several players finished their eligibility in 2012. 

He may have left two starting qb's in Mitchell and BA had he not gotten himself fired.  Although, he never did seem to make Mitchell the likely successor to Wilson.

2.  Flowers and Smith are/were good college defensive players.  Philon is turning into one as well.  There was a dropoff in defensive depth and talent from 2011.  Perhaps this season, the depth and talent would have returned to where it needed to be to have a competent defense. 

The style wasn't a 180 degrees.  Some of you think if we would have brought in someone to install an offense like Baylor's, Ok St's, Clemson's, TT's, Wash St's, Cal's, Oregon's etc that it would have been an easy transition as if those offenses are like Bobby's.

No...I am not saying there wouldn't be any transition. What I am saying was it would have been less of a transition at that point in time. The ONLY coach who could have won with that team was CBP. Nobody else. He was a egotistical control freak that controlled every aspect of that team from offense to defense to special teams. The only chance that team had to win in 2012 was with CBP. Long made the decision to make a change to a guy whose philosophy is nothing like the old regime and thats ok. The problem was the timing of it all. No chance to go out and get a good coach at that time. So we threw away a year of recruiting and that along with the change in philosophy is why we are where we are. Now....we may have transitioned faster had we hired a guy who wants to spread the field and likely be a bit ahead of where we are now but I think in the long run it was the right move after the firing had already happened. What CBB is doing would be almost considered exotic now as much of the league has gone to spread and HUNH. I think that will work for us going forward.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Bielema is more responsible for this year's record than anyone.  Even he would tell you that. 

Petrino would have had 2 recruiting classes built off exceptional seasons ON THE FIELD between the time he was fired and now. 

That's good to know and since you obviously feel you can predict the future, what are the winning numbers for the MegaMillions lotto tonight?

You no more know that is how it would have turned out than I do or anyone else. Granted, it was BP's team but there isn't any way that we can look back and assume that BP would have been able to replicate the results of 2010 and 2011.

And as far as recruiting goes, this staff is recruiting far better than BP ever did and that isn't an assumption.

[Chief Mac]

Bielema is more responsible for this year's record than anyone.  Even he would tell you that. 

Petrino would have had 2 recruiting classes built off exceptional seasons ON THE FIELD between the time he was fired and now.

2011 class was on the heels of our exceptional 2010 season....didn't yield a good class

2012 class was on the heels of our exceptional 2011 season....didn't yield a good class

we had the best two year record in decades yet could not manage even a top 20 class, why is that?


when exactly were these mythical good recruiting classes going to happen?

[code red]

I am so sick of folks blaming other coaches for this teams demise.  Fact is.  1 SEC win since "said" coach left.  Maybe its coaching.

[PonderinHog]

I am so sick of folks blaming other coaches for this teams demise.  Fact is.  1 SEC win since "said" coach left.  Maybe its coaching.

2 SEC wins.

[hogsanity]

That's good to know and since you obviously feel you can predict the future, what are the winning numbers for the MegaMillions lotto tonight?

You no more know that is how it would have turned out than I do or anyone else. Granted, it was BP's team but there isn't any way that we can look back and assume that BP would have been able to replicate the results of 2010 and 2011.

And as far as recruiting goes, this staff is recruiting far better than BP ever did and that isn't an assumption.

I remember reading here how the Hogs were going to kill in recruiting coming off 10 wins and a bcs bowl game in 2010. How they would see even more benefits after 11 wins in 2011. The 2011 and 2012 classes were not anything different than what the Hogs usually get, actually they may have been rated worse than the average Hog class.

So much goes into recruiting that average fans have no idea about. How are the coaches able to relate to 17-18 yr old kids? How do they answer questions that the parents have? What is their record on getting kids to the nfl? Graduation rates? And a hundred other things that we, as fans, do not even think of.

The day the hogs have a coach that can go OUT OF STATE and get 8-10 highly rated players every year, PLUS land the 4 or 5 best in state players, and do this year after year, only then will the Hogs recruiting ever be top 5 in the SEC.

What people still seem to ignore is that a top 20 national class may still only be 7-9 in the SEC. And while ratings are not the be all end all, I don't care how good a coach is, they still need to have talent close to the level of the other sec teams to win in this league. IF it was all coaching, Vandy could have thrown 10 mil a yr at Saban and won 5 NC's in the last decade.

[code red]

2 SEC wins.

Yes...how could I forget Kentucky.  In 2012.

[Choctaw Hog]

Did he not realize that he didn't have a backup plan before he pulled the trigger?

I always like to have an idea of where I am going to land before I jump.

But things do not always work out liked planned. Most people involved in car or motorcycle crashes (pun intended) certainly don't have another one bought and setting in the garage ready to go.  For the good of the University, the University where I graduated, Long had to get rid of the sleaze bag when he did. PEROID! No amount of wins was worth keeping him. 

If you can't see that then no amount of explanation will suffice and I guess you will just have to find another team to live vicariously through so you can thump your chest over the success of others.   

[hobhog]

It was not a complaint.  It is simply pointing out the CBP won because he recruited to a system that won.  He won with Nutts players as well.  And....although I don't know much about coaching in college I have coach for 15 years at the HS level.  Fact is we need some results....0-16  But..if calling me out makes your day then....OK.

You would think someone with 15 years coaching experience would understand the process a little better.

[Deep Shoat]

If it wasn't a shot at Petrino, what was the purpose of comparing retention of recruiting classes from more than four years ago between the #1 ranked team in America and an Arkansas program that hasn't won a conference game in over two years?

What's next for him, a compare and contrast analysis of recruiting classes between Florida State and Wake Forest?

Pointing out truth isn't "a shot".  Bobby was recruiting mediocrely and retaining poorly BEFORE he left.  Sure, he was winning.  But Joe and Jay and DJ and Chris and Ryan were all gone. 

Just stop shilling for the guy. 

Once CBB has his roster, he will be judged on W/L.  Until then, enjoy the obvious improvement.

[Deep Shoat]

I am so sick of folks blaming other coaches for this teams demise.  Fact is.  1 SEC win since "said" coach left.  Maybe its coaching.

It is CLEARLY lack of depth killing us.  Coaching has had us competitive in every game this season.  Depth has had us unable to sustain competitiveness for 4 quarters.

Anyone who CAN'T see that doesn't want to.

[Razorbax]

It is CLEARLY lack of depth killing us.  Coaching has had us competitive in every game this season.  Depth has had us unable to sustain competitiveness for 4 quarters.

Anyone who CAN'T see that doesn't want to.

Agree that lack of depth has given us fumbles on the goal line by a tired team on its first drive.......Missed FGs by exhausted kickers......Tired coaches making curious playcalling decisions...Specially in the 2nd half.....Players so tired, they unwittingly commit inopportune penalties in the second quarter....So tired, they cannot remember when and how they should field a punt....Just so bone tired that a pitch to a back was was fumbled.....Yeah, having more depth sure would have prevented all of these.

[Deep Shoat]

Agree that lack of depth has given us fumbles on the goal line by a tired team on its first drive.......Missed FGs by exhausted kickers......Tired coaches making curious playcalling decisions...Specially in the 2nd half.....Players so tired, they unwittingly commit inopportune penalties in the second quarter....So tired, they cannot remember when and how they should field a punt....Just so bone tired that a pitch to a back was was fumbled.....Yeah, having more depth sure would have prevented all of these.

Oh, you are right.  I missed all those. 

Damn shame the coaches teach our players to fumble, miss FG's, and commit penalties.

[Razorbax]

I call it truth.

Same thing happens at every stop.  At some point, you have to admit what is.

Bobby Petrino has a great ability to call offensive plays.  He does it so well, his players look better than they actually are.  So do his assistants.

He does not have a great system.  If he did, his brother would have been able to reproduce it to some degree.  Instead, he even sucks at Idaho.

He is not a good recruiter.  Proven by the results of his recruits beyond the college level.

He is not a good person.  So much evidence it is stupid to even discuss.

He is not an ambassador for the program.  The only people who still respect him are those who had no contact with him and would root for Hitler if he was winning at their school.

#Bobby'sMess is just what he left.  At Louisville, at Atlanta, and at Arkansas.  Unless he has made some serious changes to his style, he'll do it to Louisville again.  WKU is lucky he was only there for a year...

Godwin's Law..........

[Razorbax]

Oh, you are right.  I missed all those. 

Damn shame the coaches teach our players to fumble, miss FG's, and commit penalties.

Shhhh....remember the memo.......It is all Bobby Petrino's fault...

[MuskogeeHogFan]

It was not a complaint.  It is simply pointing out the CBP won because he recruited to a system that won.  He won with Nutts players as well.  And....although I don't know much about coaching in college I have coach for 15 years at the HS level.  Fact is we need some results....0-16  But..if calling me out makes your day then....OK.

What do you coach at the HS level and if football, at what level/classification?

[Gonzo]

I am so sick of folks blaming other coaches for this teams demise.  Fact is.  1 SEC win since "said" coach left.  Maybe its coaching.

There is absolutely no way it's really that simple. It has to be something else, I've been told so.......here........constantly




Go Hogs! Beat MSU!

[WarPig88]

It is CLEARLY lack of depth killing us.  Coaching has had us competitive in every game this season.  Depth has had us unable to sustain competitiveness for 4 quarters.

Anyone who CAN'T see that doesn't want to.

Half of our SEC games weren't competitive by the halfway mark of the 3rd quarter.

Everyone has shut us down in the 3rd quarter if not sooner. How is that depth?

It only took GA 2 series to shut us down. Depth?

Look, I am all for hearing why depth could be the issue, but come correct if you are going to come this way.

We haven't been nearly as competitive as you stated.

[gchamblee]

Bobby's system at Arkansas ended when he was fired in April of 2012.  Guesses about what he would have accomplished or how he would have failed if he had remained are just that...guesses.  His teams were what they were.  The results are there for everyone to verify despite all the opinions, explanations, rationalizations, and theories to the contrary.

There are things that we can claim with absolute certainty if he had stayed... his coaching (screaming ridiculing, cussing and humiliating players) would have stayed the same. His recruiting would have gone from good to mediocre due to his ethical bankruptcy. His insatiable ego would have continued to place him above the program (which is what petrino dobber suckers claim to want long fired for). There would be bowl games we wouldnt be invited to regardless of our record. There would be pages and pages of posts on hogville complaining about the media disrespecting us every season. But, other than that, you are right... everything else is just a guess.

[Cinco de Hogo]

There are things that we can claim with absolute certainty if he had stayed... his coaching (screaming ridiculing, cussing and humiliating players) would have stayed the same. His recruiting would have gone from good to mediocre due to his ethical bankruptcy. His insatiable ego would have continued to place him above the program (which is what petrino dobber suckers claim to want long fired for). There would be bowl games we wouldnt be invited to regardless of our record. There would be pages and pages of posts on hogville complaining about the media disrespecting us every season. But, other than that, you are right... everything else is just a guess.

Whole bunch of guessing ther dude, if you didn't like Petrino then I'm sure you are one of the ones that went whole hog to destroy his image so he could be fired as soon as possible.  Fans like you were on ever MB at the time running down every thing about him and the program.  What do you know you finally manufactured a reason.

Some people know more about the dirty laundry than other spin believers do and losing respect for certain people is a direct result of that.  Nothing you can spin will ever change so facts.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Half of our SEC games weren't competitive by the halfway mark of the 3rd quarter.

Everyone has shut us down in the 3rd quarter if not sooner. How is that depth?

It only took GA 2 series to shut us down. Depth?

Look, I am all for hearing why depth could be the issue, but come correct if you are going to come this way.

We haven't been nearly as competitive as you stated.

If you are rational and honest you know very well that we just let the A&M and Alabama games slip through our fingers. We should have won both.

As for the Georgia game, we handed them 28 of their points on a platter. That wasn't a testimony about how good or dominating they were. It was however a testimony to how a team can shoot themselves in the foot. Here is what I'm talking about.

1. UGA, 4th and 7 at UGA 41, UGA held on 4th, unsportsmanlike on Ark extends UGA drive. Result UGA TD.             
2. Ark 1st and 10 at own 10, fumble, UGA takes over at Ark 7. Result UGA TD.                              
3. Ark 4th and 6 at UGA 34, Allen sacked, fumbles, UGA recovers and returns for a TD.                              
4. Ark 3rd and 10 at Ark 34, thrown INT. Result UGA TD.

That accounts for 28 of their 45 points.

We were down 38-6 at the half against Georgia and the team could have folded their tent and gone home, but we outscored Georgia 26-7 in the second half.

Alabama didn't shut us down in the 3rd quarter, that was when we went up 13-7.

The thing is, this team and a young team at that, has lost their composure at key times and they haven't learned how to finish and on top of that, have been their own worst enemies at times in 3 SEC games. Overcoming this will take time, experience and confidence and the tough part is, a few wins can really help that process be speeded up.

The Hogs are a much better team, even at this point, than what you and some others want to represent them as being.

[Wants2Win]

We are currently a team that is 0-4 in SEC play riding a 16 game losing streak...fact.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

We are currently a team that is 0-4 in SEC play riding a 16 game losing streak...fact.

And the "some others" immediately weigh in.

[Wants2Win]

And the "some others" immediately weigh in.

We are a better team than last year. Everyone else is, too.

[Inhogswetrust]

Shhhh....remember the memo.......It is all Bobby Petrino's fault...

I forgot BP's teams never fumbled, missed FG's, threw interceptions or had dumb penalties..............................no wait.

[Razorbax]

If you are rational and honest you know very well that we just let the A&M and Alabama games slip through our fingers. We should have won both.

As for the Georgia game, we handed them 28 of their points on a platter. That wasn't a testimony about how good or dominating they were. It was however a testimony to how a team can shoot themselves in the foot. Here is what I'm talking about.

1. UGA, 4th and 7 at UGA 41, UGA held on 4th, unsportsmanlike on Ark extends UGA drive. Result UGA TD.             
2. Ark 1st and 10 at own 10, fumble, UGA takes over at Ark 7. Result UGA TD.                              
3. Ark 4th and 6 at UGA 34, Allen sacked, fumbles, UGA recovers and returns for a TD.                              
4. Ark 3rd and 10 at Ark, thrown INT. Result UGA TD.

That accounts for 28 of their 45 points.

We were down 38-6 at the half against Georgia and the team could have folded their tent and gone home, but we outscored Georgia 26-7 in the second half.

Alabama didn't shut us down in the 3rd quarter, that was when we went up 13-7.

The thing is, this team and a young team at that, has lost their composure at key times and they haven't learned how to finish and on top of that, have been their own worst enemies at times in 3 SEC games. Overcoming this will take time, experience and confidence and the tough part is, a few wins can really help that process be speeded up.

The Hogs are a much better team, even at this point, than what you and some others want to represent them as being.

As for our youth, wouldn't you agree it is just as or more important to have experience? Coming into this season, 4 teams in the SEC tied for most starters returning with 17 (Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi State and Texas A&M) Arkansas is right below at 16. Think about it, the number one team in the country...Another one of those should haves came into this season returning only one more offensive starter.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

As for our youth, wouldn't you agree it is just as or more important to have experience? Coming into this season, 4 teams in the SEC tied for most starters returning with 17 (Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi State and Texas A&M) Arkansas is right below at 16. Think about it, the number one team in the country...Another one of those should haves came into this season returning only one more offensive starter.

Of course, but it isn't just about experience, it is about experienced depth. We have some experience but when those guys begin to wear down, the guys who come in don't have the same advantage.

[Razorbax]

Of course, but it isn't just about experience, it is about experienced depth. We have some experience but when those guys begin to wear down, the guys who come in don't have the same advantage.

Muskogee, I really think we agree more than disagree. Depth is an issue, but it was not depth that caused the meltdown versus Georgia or some of the boneheaded plays by players and calls by our staff during this streak. Our Youth has also been overstated....Did you know Arkansas had 6 true freshman starters in 2009 and had a total of 11 freshmen and sophomore starters in 2009? Still went 8-5. http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/5608/arkansas-vanderbilt-have-youngest-starters

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Muskogee, I really think we agree more than disagree. Depth is an issue, but it was not depth that caused the meltdown versus Georgia or some of the boneheaded plays by players and calls by our staff during this streak. Our Youth has also been overstated....Did you know Arkansas had 6 true freshman starters in 2009 and had a total of 11 freshmen and sophomore starters in 2009? Still went 8-5. http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/5608/arkansas-vanderbilt-have-youngest-starters

Different system, had Mallett at QB, and our SEC wins came against a 5-7 Miss State, a 7-6 S. Carolina, and a 8-5 Auburn. That schedule was nothing like this one. I don't mean to open up this debate in this thread, but if you have a QB with a great arm and great field vision, along with BP play calling that puts receivers (and the QB) in a better position to have success, you can get that done with younger players. Our current system, not so much. JMO

[Razorbax]

Different system, had Mallett at QB, and our SEC wins came against a 5-7 Miss State, a 7-6 S. Carolina, and a 8-5 Auburn. That schedule was nothing like this one. I don't mean to open up this debate in this thread, but if you have a QB with a great arm and great field vision, along with BP play calling that puts receivers (and the QB) in a better position to have success, you can get that done with younger players. Our current system, not so much. JMO

Debate? We have 6 pages worth filled with points, counterpoints, name calling and snarkiness (I contributed some here)... I guess we can always point to the schedule...It is the SEC. This is what we should expect most years and if we are unable to compete because the schedule is too hard or we cannot recruit as well, maybe the clamor by some, of moving to the Big 12 should be our next step.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Debate? We have 6 pages worth filled with points, counterpoints, name calling and snarkiness (I contributed some here)... I guess we can always point to the schedule...It is the SEC. This is what we should expect most years and if we are unable to compete because the schedule is too hard or we cannot recruit as well, maybe the clamor by some, of moving to the Big 12 should be our next step.

Schedule is always a factor for any team but especially over the course of the last 2-3 years, the West Division has become the toughest conference (not just Division) in the country. Recruiting wise, this staff is recruiting better and at a higher level than any staff since JFB was here, so the future looks bright in terms of talent. As for moving to the Big 12(10), I can't see that ever happening.

[870hogfan]

You can tell who is all apart of the Petrino cult...

[Oklahawg]

I would suggest that the entirety of page six has nothing to do with "A case for stability", as proclaimed by the thread title. Further, with a few noteworthy exceptions (not limited to MHF but his posts on pg 6 at least have some game facts in them), there is nothing new or fresh on the entire last page.

SSDD.

No, I am not talking about a 5.25 inch floppy disk either.