BB+JC= Bad Fit

[ldfergu]

Just one. Brandon Allen. I base that on what the coaches have told me.

You really need to put your hat in the ring when Bielema's job opens up. I know lawyers are well compensated but $ 2 million plus would be awfully attractive. Plus you could be the first Razorback coach to ever post on Hogville.

Oh you know one of these idiot posters is actually hootie..

[bphi11ips]

The pitch was good enough for it to been caught, thus the fault lies with the back. I said when it happened, and having watched it again, it was AC's fault, he took his eyes off of it looking to the right. It wasn't perfect, and BA's made a ton of mistakes of his own, but I'd put the blame 90/10 on AC.

We can quibble about allocating blame, but you get the point.  My point is that (1) the pitch was high for the type necessary for a counter toss (as opposed to a toss sweep) and (2) in the film room and on the practice field someone is going to work with both players to get it right, like they did on the first counter toss to Williams where the pitch hit the back where it should have. 

[ricepig]

We can quibble about allocating blame, but you get the point.  My point is that (1) the pitch was high for the type necessary for a counter toss (as opposed to a toss sweep) and (2) in the film room and on the practice field someone is going to work with both players to get it right, like they did on the first counter toss to Williams where the pitch hit the back where it should have. 

Still should have been caught, you agree?

[bphi11ips]

Just one. Brandon Allen. I base that on what the coaches have told me.

You really need to put your hat in the ring when Bielema's job opens up. I know lawyers are well compensated but $ 2 million plus would be awfully attractive. Plus you could be the first Razorback coach to ever post on Hogville.

Or maybe I could just do what I've done all my life and call BS here when I see it. 

[Kevin]

Was the pitch perfect,no
Should have been caught, yes

Bottom line, we need Alex Collins to come out of his funk. We have no chance of winning, if he is going to play like this.

[bphi11ips]

Still should have been caught, you agree?

Absolutely.  Said that since the first time I addressed the issue, in response to another poster saying the fumble was all Allen's fault. 

[HawgTide]

Nor do I have your experience defending QBs from Northwest Arkansas. 

You said it wasn't a big deal so why not let it go? I usually enjoy your posts but now you are just lashing out.You bring some good stuff to this board but stop the pissing contest

[HawgTide]

IMHO CBB needs to become a CEO/Overseer type coach, letting the coordinators run the Offense and defense.

What do you think he is doing now?

[bphi11ips]

Was the pitch perfect,no
Should have been caught, yes

Bottom line, we need Alex Collins to come out of his funk. We have no chance of winning, if he is going to play like this.

Thank you.  Agree on all points.

If Collins is pouting about his short suspension, he needs to get over it.  In the old days this kind of stuff from a sophomore wouldn't have surprised anyone.  Collins is a good kid and a good player and he'll realize what he needs to do.  This will make him a better player and person in the long-run. 

[GuvHog]

That's what he does.

I have a hard time believing that since the offense is much more run orientated than the offense Cheney ran at Tennessee. It's obvious that CBB has serious input on the offensive scheme.

[HF#1]

I have a hard time believing that since the offense is much more run orientated than the offense Cheney ran at Tennessee. It's obvious that CBB has serious input on the offensive scheme.

He has serious input as to the philosophy but it's Chaney's offense and he calls the plays.  It's never been a mystery that Bielema prefers a physical brand of football which means an emphasis on the running game.  Guess everybody but you knew that. 

[Soooie21]

The problem is not the playcalling, it's the execution.

[GuvHog]

He has serious input as to the philosophy but it's Chaney's offense and he calls the plays.  It's never been a mystery that Bielema prefers a physical brand of football which means an emphasis on the running game.  Guess everybody but you knew that. 

If CBB has serious input as to the philosophy then it isn't Cheney's offense, it's CBB's. If CBB was a true CEO type Head Coach, Cheney would be in total control of the offense using his own philosophy.

[Inhogswetrust]

Clint Stoerner said on the radio this morning the scheme is the problem with the UA offense and that BB and JC are a bad fit together. I have been saying it since last year(to friends and not on this board), but now that a football person says it, maybe people will pay attention. Chaney was only successful as a coordinator when he ran the spread. Even Urban Meyer modeled his offense after the offense Chaney ran at Purdue. It does not matter who runs his offense and how well it is executed because his PRO-STYLE offense is poorly designed all the way around no matter how you look at it. If Bielema keeps Chaney after this year he will not last past next year.

Just because a "football" person says it doesn't make it valid. You need to realize that not ALL football people agree on everything just like fans don't agree on everything. IF what you say is valid and always true then JLS being a football person should make you pay attention as well.............................

[LZH]

A bad fit?  Me and a pair of 36 Levi's....now that's a bad fit.

Chaney and Bielema?.....nah, they'll be OK.

[Hogpkins]

Your posts sound so familiar. Who were you when you were deleted from Hogville back in September?

Reminds me a lot of RandomFan.

[Mike Irwin]

Coaches never lie just like Obama never lies.........telling someone what they want to hear is a lie sometimes.

I see. So Bret Bielema stands up at a presser and thinks to himself, these media guys would rather believe that Alex Collins was totally to blame for that fumble so even though Brandon Allen made a bad pitch I'll tell 'em what they want to hear.

Do you realize how nutty that sounds?

[LZH]

Coaches don't usually blame a player for another player's mistake. I don't even remember Nutt doing that.

Like I said, do that and you will totally lose the respect of the other players. There's no way Bielema would do that but I can see where somebody who has an ax to grind with him might imply he'd do it.   

Looks like since I didn't read the whole thread, I missed some good stuff.....

[HawgTide]

Looks like since I didn't read the whole thread, I missed some good stuff.....

Not really, this train has been off the tracks for a while now

[Inhogswetrust]

Michael Smith is right, but Clint Stoerner is wrong?  Did you and Michael watch the play together in slow motion?  Did you compare it to the location of the pitch on the counter toss to Williams on the first drive?  Do they look the same to you?  Did I say above that Collins should have caught the pitch?  Were you party to every discussion the coaches have had with players concerning the fumble?

You have proven time and again that you will do backflips to defend the slightest criticism of anything Brandon Allen does.  You may have heard Bret Bielema say there was nothing wrong with the pitch, but if he said that he's mistaken or simply defending his QB, who, according to you, per Chaney, has a fragile psyche resulting from his terrifying experience against Alabama in 2012.  I give the kid more credit than that.

This isn't that big of a deal.  The QB made a slightly bad pitch.  One that was catchable.  The video shows it clearly.  But keep telling us, some of whom played and coached both positions for years, that we don't have a clue what we're looking at.

IF as you say it was a "slightly bad pitch that was catchable " then it is NOT the QB's fault. IF it is catchable and only slightly off then if you are such a great coach why would you say that and then scold Mike and Michael for backing up what well known and respected college coaches also said. 

[Inhogswetrust]

Just having some fun with you. Your comments reminded me of the old Dan Ivy rebel attorney commercials.

You started out did making a pretty good point but you kind of made a mountain out of a molehill. You were arguing and getting a little snippy over ultimately 10% blame for the fumble.AC should have caught it but he wasn't focused and didn't. S*^! happens.

  For the record I don't think it was a perfect pitch either but how many really are

Dan Ivy! Holly cow what ever happened to that guy?

[LZH]

Not really, this train has been off the tracks for a while now

Well I haven't brought myself to re-watch the Georgia game (I missed most of it Saturday anyway)....maybe I should just leave it at that.

[Inhogswetrust]

Because the fumble wasn't all Collins fault.  Have you watched the two plays I'm referring to?  Have you ever made that pitch or tried to catch it?  Do you always kiss Irwin's butt? 

Yes and it wasn't at his forehead either as you said on the Georgia fumble. It was in front of his face mask and slightly below. That isn't his forehead. It may have been high but as you AGREE it was easily catchable therefore the QB has no blame. No I don't agree with Mike on everything but on this occasion I do. I've also agreed and disagreed with you on occasion but that doesn't make me question your or Mikes opinions especially when we disagree. You may remember we've had some good cordial PM's in the past and know a few of the same people. Mike and I have bantered on here a time or two both in agreement and not. Mike and I know some of the same people. That doesn't mean I'll ever kiss his behind or yours. Not going to happen........Sorry not my style!     

[Inhogswetrust]

Wrong. 

In Allen's defense it seems the coaches don't have much faith in him to do something special, so he rarely gets the opportunity.  This leads to playing hesitant, which drains confidence, which leads to mistakes.

Allen makes plenty of mistakes.  Whether he would have made them under a different staff can be debated till another staff shows up.  But BA will be gone. 

I never said our QB never makes mistakes especially since ALL players do. But I disagree when you think he rarely gets the opportunity to do something special. As a matter of fact he has tried and been successful and not successful trying to do just that just by virtue of being the starting QB! He gets that opportunity EVERY play he plays. I'm not saying that trying to throw long is the only way to try being special but we have tried to do just that quite a few times so far this season. Some fans (myself included) think we have tried to throw too often.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Did you get rid of the part about the ax to grind?  Here's an example of the ax I've been grinding here since Bielema was hired:

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=552820.msg8553349#msg8553349

And what happened in the last 4 games last season, as I alluded to in my post, that you quoted? Arkansas didn't quit and in fact improved, despite not having the talent that they needed to win games.

Here we are this year with the exact same record at this point of the season as last year, but playing far more competitive in every game than we did last year. I know, same win-loss total, but any rational person can see that we not only had a chance to win our last three games, but probably should have won, short of immature mistakes (characteristic of this young team) with regard to T/O's and untimely penalties. We are still making "freshman/sophomore" mistakes, but we are improving. Anyone who is rational should be able to see that.

As for the exchange between BA and Collins, the pitch wasn't over his head and the very first responisbility of the RB is to secure the ball, whether he makes any yards or not, especially when at your own 10 yard line. It wasn't uncatchable by Collins, and while perhaps not a perfect pitch, if his eyes are in the right place, focusing on securing the ball, we don't have that T/O. That's the coach in me saying that. Was the pitch perfect? Maybe not, but it was catchable and should have been secured. My experience is that when a RB doesn't secure the ball in that situation, he is focusing too early on where he wants to run rather than securing the ball. Bottom line, the RB's first responsibility is to secure the ball when it isn't tossed over his head. Even Bielema has stated as much and he isn't prone to spouting b.s. Nuff said about that.

As I have said before, I thought that was a bad play call that involved unnecessary risk in that particular down/distance/field position that didn't give us the greatest opportunity for success given the level of risk involved in executing that particular play in terms of ball handling.

The RB should have focused on and secured the ball before looking to where he was going to run. But like a lot of kids, he was totally bought into trying to make a play for his team instead of executing as he knew how to do, and sometimes when that happens, kids make mistakes.

[bphi11ips]

Yes and it wasn't at his forehead either as you said on the Georgia fumble. It was in front of his face mask and slightly below. That isn't his forehead. It may have been high but as you AGREE it was easily catchable therefore the QB has no blame. No I don't agree with Mike on everything but on this occasion I do. I've also agreed and disagreed with you on occasion but that doesn't make me question your or Mikes opinions especially when we disagree. You may remember we've had some good cordial PM's in the past and know a few of the same people. Mike and I have bantered on here a time or two both in agreement and not. Mike and I know some of the same people. That doesn't mean I'll ever kiss his behind or yours. Not going to happen........Sorry not my style!     

Nor mine!  We're both too old to care.

And the pitch did hit Collins at the top of his facemask.  That's basically the forehead. 

Think about it in a different way.  When a QB hits the running back in the shoulder pads on a handoff, you still blame the running back for fumbling the ball.  But you fuss at the QB, too.   

[bphi11ips]

And what happened in the last 4 games last season, as I alluded to in my post, that you quoted? Arkansas didn't quit and in fact improved, despite not having the talent that they needed to win games.

Here we are this year with the exact same record at this point of the season as last year, but playing far more competitive in every game than we did last year. I know, same win-loss total, but any rational person can see that we not only had a chance to win our last three games, but probably should have won, short of immature mistakes (characteristic of this young team) with regard to T/O's and untimely penalties. We are still making "freshman/sophomore" mistakes, but we are improving. Anyone who is rational should be able to see that.

As for the exchange between BA and Collins, the pitch wasn't over his head and the very first responisbility of the RB is to secure the ball, whether he makes any yards or not, especially when at your own 10 yard line. It wasn't uncatchable by Collins, and while perhaps not a perfect pitch, if his eyes are in the right place, focusing on securing the ball, we don't have that T/O. That's the coach in me saying that. Was the pitch perfect? Maybe not, but it was catchable and should have been secured. My experience is that when a RB doesn't secure the ball in that situation, he is focusing too early on where he wants to run rather than securing the ball. Bottom line, the RB's first responsibility is to secure the ball when it isn't tossed over his head. Even Bielema has stated as much and he isn't prone to spouting b.s. Nuff said about that.

As I have said before, I thought that was a bad play call that involved unnecessary risk in that particular down/distance/field position that didn't give us the greatest opportunity for success given the level of risk involved in executing that particular play in terms of ball handling.

The RB should have focused on and secured the ball before looking to where he was going to run. But like a lot of kids, he was totally bought into trying to make a play for his team instead of executing as he knew how to do, and sometimes when that happens, kids make mistakes.

Just as you predicted.  The mental toughness seems to have taken hold, unless we now see the team crumble every time we have an undisciplined penalty.

I liked DeltaBoy's post at the bottom.  He knows the Hogs and football.   

[Inhogswetrust]

Nor mine!  We're both too old to care.

And the pitch did hit Collins at the top of his facemask.  That's basically the forehead. 

Think about it in a different way.  When a QB hits the running back in the shoulder pads on a handoff, you still blame the running back for fumbling the ball.  But you fuss at the QB, too.   

Well on that toss we will have to agree to respectfully disagree. I think we both will admit a handoff fumble of that type is not the same in the blame game arena.

[Hoggiedawg]

I see. So Bret Bielema stands up at a presser and thinks to himself, these media guys would rather believe that Alex Collins was totally to blame for that fumble so even though Brandon Allen made a bad pitch I'll tell 'em what they want to hear.

Do you realize how nutty that sounds?

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear.  I'm not saying he lied in this particular instance.  I'm saying blind acceptance of what a coach who is paid millions of dollars to win says, and who isn't winning, may need deeper looks at times.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Just as you predicted.  The mental toughness seems to have taken hold, unless we now see the team crumble every time we have an undisciplined penalty.

I liked DeltaBoy's post at the bottom.  He knows the Hogs and football.   

As a team it is sometimes difficult, when you possess profound confidence in your abilities to play with anyone, and you continue to shoot yourselves in the foot over and over again and find a way to lose, rather than to win, to maintain the confidence and will that is needed to be be successful. Kids can tend to begin to believe that they are cursed and that no matter what effort they make, they will come out on the short end.

That is dangerous ground for any team. But that is precisely where coaching comes into play and where a staff has to challenge the logic of a team. "Here is where we failed to execute, if we do this we are successful, if we lose focus or one player takes a play off, we fail". The players begin to realize that they have been more than adequately prepared for the game, and as a total unit, as a team, they just need to refocus and if they perform at the level that they are capable of producing, they will be awarded with a win.

The old adage that there are about 5 to 6 plays that determine the outcome of most games begins to hit home and players begin to buy into the philosophy that you can't let down on any play because you never know when those 5 or 6 plays are going to present themselves in the game and that applies to both defense and offense. 5 to 6 on offense and 5 to 6 on defense. It has to be "all in" every single play of every single game, executing at a high level, by every single player on the field. Not just the QB, RB or TE/WR, not just the Safety or the LB or the DE, everyone on board, working in concert.

When this team learns that and when they focus on limiting T/O's while creating T/O's against their opponents, we will begin to win consistently and at a high level. Unfortunately, this is a concept that has to be re-taught to a young team. We will reap the benefits of the effort of this staff in the future, though it may not come this year to the degree that all may desire.

[bphi11ips]

Well on that toss we will have to agree to respectfully disagree. I think we both will admit a handoff fumble of that type is not the same in the blame game arena.

Nah.  The running back always gets the blame.  But everyone knows the ball hit the back in the shoulder pads.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

In most states that deeper look is called journalism.  In Arkansas, sports journalism is prohibited by statute, which is why out-of-state Hogville posters must ask the hard questions. 

Come on BP, you are giving yourself and all other out of state posters too much credit.

[bphi11ips]

As a team it is sometimes difficult, when you possess profound confidence in your abilities to play with anyone, and you continue to shoot yourselves in the foot over and over again and find a way to lose, rather than to win, to maintain the confidence and will that is needed to be be successful. Kids can tend to begin to believe that they are cursed and that no matter what effort they make, they will come out on the short end.

That is dangerous ground for any team. But that is precisely where coaching comes into play and where a staff has to challenge the logic of a team. "Here is where we failed to execute, if we do this we are successful, if we lose focus or one player takes a play off, we fail". The players begin to realize that they have been more than adequately prepared for the game, and as a total unit, as a team, they just need to refocus and if they perform at the level that they are capable of producing, they will be awarded with a win.

The old adage that there are about 5 to 6 plays that determine the outcome of most games begins to hit home and players begin to buy into the philosophy that you can't let down on any play because you never know when those 5 or 6 plays are going to present themselves in the game and that applies to both defense and offense. 5 to 6 on offense and 5 to 6 on defense. It has to be "all in" every single play of every single game, executing at a high level, by every single player on the field. Not just the QB, RB or TE/WR, not just the Safety or the LB or the DE, everyone on board, working in concert.

When this team learns that and when they focus on limiting T/O's while creating T/O's against their opponents, we will begin to win consistently and at a high level. Unfortunately, this is a concept that has to be re-taught to a young team. We will reap the benefits of the effort of this staff in the future, though it may not come this year to the degree that all may desire.

You're now into the self-fulfilling prophecy once called tradition.  At one time, the Razorbacks expected to win every game they played (except Texas).  Like Vince Lombardi said "Winning is a habit.  Unfortunately, so is losing." 

Turnovers tend to follow the team with the most speed and athleticism.  See Georgia. They will come.

[bphi11ips]

Come on BP, you are giving yourself and all other out of state posters too much credit.

Just educating the public on the Arkansas statute.  It is unusual.  Orville Henry and Frank Broyles formed a strong lobby.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

You're now into the self-fulfilling prophecy once called tradition.  At one time, the Razorbacks expected to win every game they played (except Texas).  Like Vince Lombardi said "Winning is a habit.  Unfortunately, so is losing." 

Turnovers tend to follow the team with the most speed and athleticism.  See Georgia. They will come.

You are minimizing what I said.

[lumphog]

I've gone back and watched the pitch several times now. I can't see how anyone can say that was Brandon Allen's fault.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11722934

You are RIGHT.....I'm no coach, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night