BB+JC= Bad Fit

[khawg95]

Clint Stoerner said on the radio this morning the scheme is the problem with the UA offense and that BB and JC are a bad fit together. I have been saying it since last year(to friends and not on this board), but now that a football person says it, maybe people will pay attention. Chaney was only successful as a coordinator when he ran the spread. Even Urban Meyer modeled his offense after the offense Chaney ran at Purdue. It does not matter who runs his offense and how well it is executed because his PRO-STYLE offense is poorly designed all the way around no matter how you look at it. If Bielema keeps Chaney after this year he will not last past next year.

[HF#1]

I agree with what some of Clint said.  His best point was that Bielema and Chaney are trying to meet each other halfway but it's not working.  Bielema wants to road grade people and Chaney wants to throw it around.  He gave some examples of that.  He stated it in such a way that it made sense.  Folks around just bark about how much Chaney sucks and try to back it up with stats and nonsense.  Clint gave football related examples of what isn't working. 

I'm a Chaney supporter but Clint had some good points.  I trust Coach to do the right thing after evaluating the season.  But, if we make a bowl, Chaney isn't going anywhere.

[Hogarusa]

Well since Clint said it

[Augustus]

I respect Clint very much, and put stock in what he says most of the time. (For instance, the day Gurley went out, He was saying "Georgia is still very strong at RB and overall; they will still be very tough")

However right he may be, this offense would not look nowhere near as bad if not for lack of execution (blocking/busted plays/etc), turnovers, and penalties.

[pigture perfect]

I don't think we've been given the option of having a spread type QB.

[PorkRinds]

I can't take him seriously because of the Stoernover.  But I admit, another Chaney has got to go thread was a great idea.

[bphi11ips]

Meeting each other halfway for four quarters is okay.  Splitting the game in two with each style is a different story.

Chaney threw the ball at Tennessee over 50% of the time.  Tennessee didn't win many games while he was there.  Tennessee built its tradition on running the football, especially in the fourth quarter.  That was Fulmer's game.  Fulmer backlash caused fans to want something different.  They got what they wished for.  Butch Jones is now rebuilding Tennessee more in the image of its successful past.  Bielema is doing the same thing here. 

If we can't run the ball in the fourth quarter, we'll never be able to compete well in the SEC. If DC's don't have to respect the pass, we'll never be able to run the ball in the fourth quarter.

[HF#1]

I respect Clint very much, and put stock in what he says most of the time. (For instance, the day Gurley went out, He was saying "Georgia is still very strong at RB and overall; they will still be very tough")

However right he may be, this offense would not look nowhere near as bad if not for lack of execution (blocking/busted plays/etc), turnovers, and penalties.

He addressed your last point as well.  Guys like Brey Cook were recruiting to pass block, not to run block.  Skipper was recruited to mow over folks, not be on his heels pass blocking.  Honestly, when Kirkland came in for Skip, he outplayed Skipper at his own position.  BA had more time to throw it. 

So when we aren't executing, it means we are asking guys to do something that isn't their strong suit.

[Calling All Hogs]

I agree with what some of Clint said.  His best point was that Bielema and Chaney are trying to meet each other halfway but it's not working.  Bielema wants to road grade people and Chaney wants to throw it around.  He gave some examples of that.

I think it is more like we currently are not able to road grade top 10 teams so we have to throw it around and we are not very good at that either against top 10 teams.

[HF#1]

I think it is more like we currently are not able to road grade top 10 teams so we have to throw it around and we are not very good at that either against top 10 teams.

How do we really know though?  Have we really stuck to the run for 4 quarters?  It does seem like our only adjustment for teams that stop our run is to start throwing it around.  Why don't we make adjustments in the run game? 

[flynhog]

It's not the spread that is the issue or how or who calls it.  Running up the middle time and time and time and time again is wrong.   Nothing outside. No passing to speak of.  No adjustment at all until halftime.

However, the halftime adjustments worked. Passing was good the second half last Saturday.  WHERE WAS IT IN THE FIRST HALF???  I hope the talking heads learn and adjust early.  Richt adjusted after our first drive and our offense was stopped until the second half.

[minman]

Just watched "the turnover" on youtube again.  It had been a while.  This was just about the most painful loss I can ever remember.  I was a senior in high school.  I put a hole in the wall in my room when it happened.  I wonder how Clint coped with it?  Has he ever said? 

[Razorbax]

He addressed your last point as well.  Guys like Brey Cook were recruiting to pass block, not to run block.  Skipper was recruited to mow over folks, not be on his heels pass blocking.  Honestly, when Kirkland came in for Skip, he outplayed Skipper at his own position.  BA had more time to throw it. 

So when we aren't executing, it means we are asking guys to do something that isn't their strong suit.

I tend to believe Skipper is a natural right tackle. Next year, hopefully Wallace, with his great footwork, takes the LT spot and Skipper moves to Cooks position in the line.

[bphi11ips]

He addressed your last point as well.  Guys like Brey Cook were recruiting to pass block, not to run block.  Skipper was recruited to mow over folks, not be on his heels pass blocking.  Honestly, when Kirkland came in for Skip, he outplayed Skipper at his own position.  BA had more time to throw it. 

So when we aren't executing, it means we are asking guys to do something that isn't their strong suit.

How in the world do you think anyone ever finds linemen who can do both?

[Atlhogfan1]

He may be right. 

I think it is hard to evaluate at this point given our wr depth, only one option at qb and offensive linemen still early in their college careers.  Developing versatile linemen isn't easy.  Teaching them how to run block and then play backing up in pass protection takes time.  It is why so many college programs are one dimensional.  These finesse spread teams have olinemen with tackles lined up in the backfield to pass protect and run plays are deceptions or sweeps. 

I also find it a little ridiculous to criticize Chaney based on Tennessee where he was in another rebuilding situation where what he was working with was not competitive with the competition. 

We are a season and a half in.  Trying to mesh styles and develop the linemen needed to do it may take more than a season and a half. 

How do we really know though?  Have we really stuck to the run for 4 quarters?  It does seem like our only adjustment for teams that stop our run is to start throwing it around.  Why don't we make adjustments in the run game? 

Yes we have against physically inferior teams. 

[PorkRinds]

Clint Stoerner said on the radio this morning the scheme is the problem with the UA offense and that BB and JC are a bad fit together. I have been saying it since last year(to friends and not on this board), but now that a football person says it, maybe people will pay attention. Chaney was only successful as a coordinator when he ran the spread. Even Urban Meyer modeled his offense after the offense Chaney ran at Purdue. It does not matter who runs his offense and how well it is executed because his PRO-STYLE offense is poorly designed all the way around no matter how you look at it. If Bielema keeps Chaney after this year he will not last past next year.

Personally I don't think Clint is in any position to know the dynamics between JC and BB.  He, like most everyone else, is just guessing.  He, as an alumni and former player, should know better than to sew seeds of dissention though.  Leave that to everyone else.  Players should respect the school and program enough to not make wild guesses and state them as fact.

[bphi11ips]

Personally I don't think Clint is in any position to know the dynamics between JC and BB.  He, like most everyone else, is just guessing.  He, as an alumni and former player, should know better than to sew seeds of dissention though.  Leave that to everyone else.  Players should respect the school and program enough to not make wild guesses and state them as fact.

Stoerner is acting in a professional capacity as a journalist.  I respect him for giving an honest opinion. 

[PorkRinds]

Stoerner is acting in a professional capacity as a journalist.  I respect him for giving an honest opinion.

You ever hear Stoerner on The Morning Rush?  Dude wasn't a journalist.  Maybe he is now, but he wasn't then.  And he was obviously unprepared.  Maybe he's more professional in this capacity.  I didn't hear it, so I don't know.

[HF#1]

Say what you want about Clint but there was validity to what he said.  Best summation of Chaney's offense I've heard so far.  He made a much better argument as to why Chaney is ineffective than anyone here has. 

[NaturalStateReb]

I'd think Bielema would be in the best position to know this.  If something isn't a good fit, he's usually not bashful about pulling the plug.  Just ask Mike Markuson.

[texas tush hog]

I have all the respect in the world for Clint Stoerner, he arrived the same year as my daughter did as a student trainer.They are still very good friends as are we. I agree with him most of the time, but don't necessarily believe Chaney has to go. If he and Bielema cannot reconcile their differences, then Brett will act accordingly, but people on this board have had a vendetta for Chaney since he got here, and I don't jump on bandwagons like that. I will trust Pittman and Bielema to figure it out, but that's as far as I will go. I betcha Clint was not calling for Chaney's head, just probably making an observation which I do quite often. You guys need to differentiate from constructive criticism and condemnation. The Clint I know would never call for a coaches head. Call in and ask him.

[HF#1]

I have all the respect in the world for Clint Stoerner, he arrived the same year as my daughter did as a student trainer.They are still very good friends as are we. I agree with him most of the time, but don't necessarily believe Chaney has to go. If he and Bielema cannot reconcile their differences, then Brett will act accordingly, but people on this board have had a vendetta for Chaney since he got here, and I don't jump on bandwagons like that. I will trust Pittman and Bielema to figure it out, but that's as far as I will go. I betcha Clint was not calling for Chaney's head, just probably making an observation which I do quite often. You guys need to differentiate from constructive criticism and condemnation. The Clint I know would not call for a coaches head. Call in and ask him.

I heard his criticisms but I never heard him call for Chaney to go...  Perhaps I missed it.

[bphi11ips]

He may be right. 

I think it is hard to evaluate at this point given our wr depth

I also find it a little ridiculous to criticize Chaney based on Tennessee where he was in another rebuilding situation where what he was working with was not competitive with the competition. 

We are a season and a half in.  Trying to mesh styles and develop the linemen needed to do it may take more than a season and a half. 

Jim Chaney was in his 4th year as OC at Tennessee in 2012.  He had Tyler Bray (currently with Kansas City), Corderrale Patterson (29th pick) and Justin Hunter (34th pick).  They averaged 475 ypg and finished 1-7.  They averaged 36 points per game but gave up 35.  Therein lay the problem.

Chaney was not the problem at Tennessee, but it's not rediculous to point out Tennessee's record while he was there or the general lack of emphasis on the running game during his tenure.

[bphi11ips]

You ever hear Stoerner on The Morning Rush?  Dude wasn't a journalist.  Maybe he is now, but he wasn't then.  And he was obviously unprepared.  Maybe he's more professional in this capacity.  I didn't hear it, so I don't know.

Do you think Stoerner is being paid to do talk radio?

[LAGNAF]

Say what you want about Clint but there was validity to what he said.  Best summation of Chaney's offense I've heard so far.  He made a much better argument as to why Chaney is ineffective than anyone here has. 

I generally tend to find validity in peoples opinions when they agree with my own. I'm not so sure Clint's points are any more valid than others. There are a number of things that are affecting this offense's ability to move the chains against top flight competition.

[texas tush hog]

Jim Chaney was in his 4th year as OC at Tennessee in 2012.  He had Tyler Bray (currently with Kansas City), Corderrale Patterson (29th pick) and Justin Hunter (34th pick).  They averaged 475 ypg and finished 1-7.  They averaged 36 points per game but gave up 35.  Therein lay the problem.

Chaney was not the problem at Tennessee, but it's not rediculous to point out Tennessee's record while he was there or the general lack of emphasis on the running game during his tenure.

At this point I will defer to Mike Irwin, and agree that Chaney is an outstanding coach and I believe at this point both Bielema and Pittman support him wholeheartedly, as do I.

[NaturalStateReb]

At this point I will defer to Mike Irwin, and agree that Chaney is an outstanding coach and I believe at this point both Bielema and Pittman support him wholeheartedly, as do I.

I will say this--it is possible for a coach to be outstanding but just not a great fit.  I'm not sure that's true of Jim Chaney, but Bielema should know after this season and I'm sure he'd make a change if he thought one was necessary.

[Atlhogfan1]

Jim Chaney was in his 4th year as OC at Tennessee in 2012.  He had Tyler Bray (currently with Kansas City), Corderrale Patterson (29th pick) and Justin Hunter (34th pick).  They averaged 475 ypg and finished 1-7.  They averaged 36 points per game but gave up 35.  Therein lay the problem.

Chaney was not the problem at Tennessee, but it's not rediculous to point out Tennessee's record while he was there or the general lack of emphasis on the running game during his tenure.

It is ridiculous to point out the record when it adds no context to the discussion.

You wanted them to emphasize the running game with a defense giving up 35 pts and their best offensive players being the qb and wr's? 


This is just another subject where our fans are showing a lack of patience.  This is Bielema's first try at blending in an OC.  Chryst was already on the Wisconsin staff when Bielema became head coach.  With BA's shoulder injury, Wilson playing in so few games and playing underclassmen olinemen, this is still real early in the development of the offense.  We need more recruiting classes and underclassmen especially qb's to develop before we judge IMO. 

[lumphog]

He may be right. 

I think it is hard to evaluate at this point given our wr depth, only one option at qb and offensive linemen still early in their college careers.  Developing versatile linemen isn't easy.  Teaching them how to run block and then play backing up in pass protection takes time.  It is why so many college programs are one dimensional.  These finesse spread teams have olinemen with tackles lined up in the backfield to pass protect and run plays are deceptions or sweeps. 

I also find it a little ridiculous to criticize Chaney based on Tennessee where he was in another rebuilding situation where what he was working with was not competitive with the competition. 

We are a season and a half in.  Trying to mesh styles and develop the linemen needed to do it may take more than a season and a half. 

Yes we have against physically inferior teams. 

Good post

[Atlhogfan1]

Clint is just doing his job.  I didn't hear the comments so I can't speak to them or his motivation for making them except to do his job.  I would think his experience in our program going from Ford to when Ford was forced to hire KS that Clint would understand implementing a new offense and blending a passing game with a run first offense. 

[texas tush hog]

It is ridiculous to point out the record when it adds no context to the discussion.

You wanted them to emphasize the running game with a defense giving up 35 pts and their best offensive players being the qb and wr's? 


This is just another subject where our fans are showing a lack of patience.  This is Bielema's first try at blending in an OC.  Chryst was already on the Wisconsin staff when Bielema became head coach.  With BA's shoulder injury, Wilson playing in so few games and playing underclassmen olinemen, this is still real early in the development of the offense.  We need more recruiting classes and underclassmen especially qb's to develop before we judge IMO. 

Astute observation.

[GalaHawg]

Does he risk losing Pittman if CBB lets JC go?

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

The offense is 100% better this year score almost 8 Pts more per SEC contest and that's with a fumble at the one inch line, 2 missed FG and 2 missed Extra Pts.

If we had a kicker worth anything we would be 5-2 and this would be a non issue.

They being said I would like to see us open it up like we did in the 4th qtr against UGA

[HF#1]

The problem is that if a change is made, will it be another setback?  Can BA and company learn the new system quickly enough to win some games next season?

[PorkRinds]

The problem is that if a change is made, will it be another setback?  Can BA and company learn the new system quickly enough to win some games next season?

Exactly.  Bringing in another new system is not the way to go here. 

[BPsTheMan]

Clint Stoerner is wrong.

[HF#1]

Clint Stoerner is wrong.

Astute observation.

[texas tush hog]

Does he risk losing Pittman if CBB lets JC go?

Short answer, Yes.

[bphi11ips]

It is ridiculous to point out the record when it adds no context to the discussion.

You wanted them to emphasize the running game with a defense giving up 35 pts and their best offensive players being the qb and wr's? 


This is just another subject where our fans are showing a lack of patience.  This is Bielema's first try at blending in an OC.  Chryst was already on the Wisconsin staff when Bielema became head coach.  With BA's shoulder injury, Wilson playing in so few games and playing underclassmen olinemen, this is still real early in the development of the offense.  We need more recruiting classes and underclassmen especially qb's to develop before we judge IMO. 

I couldn't care less what Tennessee did then or now.  What I can tell you is that Chaney's numbers vs. Bielema's numbers prior to Arkansas tend to support Stoerner's odd couple theory.  My assumption when he hired Chaney was that it was an indication Bielema intended to pass more as a percentage of plays than he did at Wiscinsin.   You suggest it is unfair to judge Chaney until he has the personnel needed for balance.  I don't disagree with you except to the extent that he needed to reexamine his play selection late in short yardage situations after Alabama.  He said exactly that himself.

[ricepig]

Short answer, Yes.

Shorter answer, no.

[Cure]

Chaney isn't the problem.

[Theolesnort]

The dynamics of this offense in what it can and what it can not do will not be judged at this time because at the moment it is limited by inexperienced players, by the need for more (depth) and better players no matter what Clint says. A much better critique could be made by someone of Joe Ferguson's stature. Someone who has coached offense and knows a lot more about it. Even Joe could not give a definitive and complete critique until another recruiting class or two tells a more complete narrative of possibilities. Basically I see nothing wrong with the offense except for some missing pieces and as the offense matures some new things incorporated and some discarded. We could be seeing the beginning of something special and to be working as well as it has under the circumstances really is amazing.

[bphi11ips]

Chaney doesn't need to go.  He does need to figure out some way to make DC's respect his passing game when it matters.  If his starters can't run his playbook, he needs to adjust his playbook or start developing players who can execute it at some point in the future.

[Kevin]

I think it is always a bad fit when someone has to run someone else's playbook

[Razorfox]

He addressed your last point as well.  Guys like Brey Cook were recruiting to pass block, not to run block.  Skipper was recruited to mow over folks, not be on his heels pass blocking.  Honestly, when Kirkland came in for Skip, he outplayed Skipper at his own position.  BA had more time to throw it. 

So when we aren't executing, it means we are asking guys to do something that isn't their strong suit.

Sorry, but this comment makes no sense to me.  Do balanced teams that run and pass have two sets of offensive linemen?  I didn't think so. 

[Bebop]

Say what you want about Clint but there was validity to what he said.  Best summation of Chaney's offense I've heard so far.  He made a much better argument as to why Chaney is ineffective than anyone here has.

Clint has great insight as a former player, but I've heard people here mention similar things regarding the Chaney and BB offensive melding and how it may not work. There's a list of things (some argue better than others)that people have touched on here regarding Chaney's play-calling.

[PorkRinds]

Sorry, but this comment makes no sense to me.  Do balanced teams that run and pass have two sets of offensive linemen?  I didn't think so.

No, but it does take time to develop both sets of skills.  REmember these guys are true sophmores.  More experience and time developing their skills, and by their junior and senior years they should be more balanced.  They've had baptism by fire.

[DeltaBoy]

Something not working.

[Atlhogfan1]

The offense is 100% better this year score almost 8 Pts more per SEC contest and that's with a fumble at the one inch line, 2 missed FG and 2 missed Extra Pts.

If we had a kicker worth anything we would be 5-2 and this would be a non issue.

They being said I would like to see us open it up like we did in the 4th qtr against UGA

The tripping penalty changed the season at least to this point.

I couldn't care less what Tennessee did then or now.  What I can tell you is that Chaney's numbers vs. Bielema's numbers prior to Arkansas tend to support Stoerner's odd couple theory.  My assumption when he hired Chaney was that it was an indication Bielema intended to pass more as a percentage of plays than he did at Wiscinsin.   You suggest it is unfair to judge Chaney until he has the personnel needed for balance.  I don't disagree with you except to the extent that he needed to reexamine his play selection late in short yardage situations after Alabama.  He said exactly that himself.

I'm not seeing this drastic change with Bielema or this odd couple.  Chaney is trying to implement a pro style offense.  Chryst is a pro style offense OC.  He was an OC under Riley when he returned from the NFL.  Chryst had spent time in the NFL as an assistant.  I don't see how Chaney with Bielema is so odd.  Chryst may be a little more slanted to the run than Chaney.  But Chaney hasn't been an OC with Bielema long. 

[Bebop]

The tripping penalty changed the season at least to this point.

Really? Come on. I guess we didn't play any football after that penalty.