Just plain ridiculous......

[Science Fiction Greg]

You are right, looking at wins and losses is not the thing to look at if you are wanting to not have your faith shaken.

No matter how hard you try, you cannot make this year's win/loss record anymore important to the long term success of this coaching staff than it is (which is pretty near zero).

[Wants2Win]

This is also very true.  We are climbing a mountain right now, and we just started out.  And the number of people griping that we aren't at the top right now is amazing.  Please consider for a second that to have success against our schedule, we absolutely must already be at the top.

Then consider that we're actually competing extremely well with those teams from where we actually are.

Should have beat A&M...they are terrible.

[rude1]

You see any rebuilds that have played the schedule we have played the last 12 games?  You realize Mississippi State hasn't lost a game since they beat us last year?  Think about that for a second, MISSISSIPPI STATE...

You mean that game we gave them last year? Or the one given to aTm this year?I guess you still see them as top 10 team though. There have been games during this losing streak where wins not only were possible but should have happened, but didn't............That should concern you.

[Science Fiction Greg]

Well, gentlemen, I enjoyed exchangine pleasantries this evening.  I must have dinner at some point or I will waste away.  Enjoy your evening.

[Wants2Win]

No matter how hard you try, you cannot make this year's win/loss record anymore important to the long term success of this coaching staff than it is (which is pretty near zero).

Recruiting?

[JaketheSnake]

Well, gentlemen, I enjoyed exchangine pleasantries this evening.  I must have dinner at some point or I will waste away.  Enjoy your evening.

what are you having???

[HF#1]

You mean that game we gave them last year? Or the one given to aTm this year?I guess you still see them as top 10 team though. There have been games during this losing streak where wins not only were possible but should have happened, but didn't............That should concern you.

1. Tell me going into the A&M game that you didn't think they were a top ten team.  I'm tired of folks coming in here acting like they knew it all along. 

2. Oh my god, we've lost games we should have won.  How many teams under construction has that happened to?   How many times have teams lost games they should have won period?  Why is that so shocking to you? Coaches can teach all the right things but at the end of the day, if the players don't execute it then what do you do?  The fumbles, the penalties, the mistakes and missed opportunities are all correctable but the players have to apply themselves.  The caveat is that it is your best, most veteran players making the mistakes.  When you have to bench your veterans or best players and the next guy isn't ready or not as talented, there isn't much you can do.

But keep bitching and moaning and begging for changes and what not.  All the while, the team will improve, the streak will end, and in a couple years you will enjoy the success with everybody else.

[Sivad]

Now I am a Red Wolf fan but...

Then I read no more forever.

[HogFanatic]

Then I read no more forever.

THIS is what I'm talking about.
Jesus I can't believe some of you guys.

[JaketheSnake]

THIS is what I'm talking about.
Jesus I can't believe some of you guys.

i noticed you haven't answered my question about the kicker... Funny how that works

[GolfNut57]

Just for the record. I didn't post this thread to troll or rub some noses in your teams problems. More so just to point out some unrealistic expectations on here. Yes your team has issues and I really don't understand redshirting a scholly kicker. But time WILL heal what ails you.

[lumphog]

Many agree, but each village has their idiots...

Sure is a bunch ofem !!!!!

[lumphog]

Should have beat A&M...they are terrible.

They aren't terrible they just have to play in the SEC west like us.....some of you folks don't kno . . . . . . . . . . .

[LZH]

Jeff Long had no choice in firing Petrino. The man flat out lied to Long and tried to cover it up. If YOU owned a company and your best employee did the same thing you would have to do the same as Long did. Sure your employee might make you a lot of money. But no one will want to do business with a company that has no integrity. And eventually your company would go broke.

What are you talking about?  Petrino is a national treasure!

[GolfNut57]

What are you talking about?  Petrino is a national treasure in his own mind.

FIFY. I know you meant to add that part and just forgot. 

[SkeeterHawg]

You seen any rebuilds that started 0-12 in conference play? Can you think of any coaching staff that recovered from such a start to turn a program around?

I have never seen a rebuild where the first 7 conference opponents were all top 10 teams at the time the games were played.  I don't think anyone has ever seen this type of run in there 2nd year at a school. We have dominated everyone else we have played, this is definite improvement over the last two years.  I for one have patience to give the team time to develop.  It may take a couple of more years to get close to the top, but I believe it will come sooner than later.

[SkeeterHawg]

I really don't understand redshirting a scholly kicker. But time WILL heal what ails you.

I can understand it.  Did you see his recruiting picture, he looked like he was 12 yo.  He needed to mature some, I would hate for him have to make a tackle on ko return man..he might break.

[hellwonthaveme]

Best available.  Simple as that.  The team is being rebuilt the right way.  This rebuild would've been no faster with any other coaching staff without the last name Petrino, incidentally.  Any staff needs time.

Best available? Hahaha....

Try a love letter. Plain and simple...a love letter.

PRJ

[hellwonthaveme]

1. Tell me going into the A&M game that you didn't think they were a top ten team.  I'm tired of folks coming in here acting like they knew it all along. 

2. Oh my god, we've lost games we should have won.  How many teams under construction has that happened to?   How many times have teams lost games they should have won period?  Why is that so shocking to you? Coaches can teach all the right things but at the end of the day, if the players don't execute it then what do you do?  The fumbles, the penalties, the mistakes and missed opportunities are all correctable but the players have to apply themselves.  The caveat is that it is your best, most veteran players making the mistakes.  When you have to bench your veterans or best players and the next guy isn't ready or not as talented, there isn't much you can do.

But keep bitching and moaning and begging for changes and what not.  All the while, the team will improve, the streak will end, and in a couple years you will enjoy the success with everybody else.

And when the streak ends....with one win in the SEC, You and others will elect him governor...all over one win.

That's all you want....one win and you will be vindicated.

Hilarious. ..

PRJ

[hellwonthaveme]

What were his stats in fall practice compared to our other kickers? 

His fall stats? Are you kidding me? Fall stats?

We can't kick a FG. We struggle mightily making a PAT. Our punter now shanks more than he booms. We average about -14 yards on almost every punt because either A) Dean is instructed to not catch the ball or B) is too spooked to catch it. I mean he is back there making a racket telling folks to run away from the ball and it looks like the viet cong running from hand grenades....we can't kickoff any further then the 15 yard line and when we return a kick, if Korliss isn't in there, we are lucky if we get it out to the 15.

Jeez...

Rebuild tho right?

PRJ

[Torqued pork]

What would an ASU fan know about rebuilding? They can't keep a coach long enough to find the Jonesboro Wal-Mart.

[SamBuckhart]

Tennessee, Texas and Michigan are all scrambling to try and rebuild. There are problems that just take time to fix. We miss Korliss. Sure hope he gets straight. Go Hogs . Beat UAB.

[ChitownHawg]

Here's my question. Next year when your team starts having more success, are the bashers going to just disappear into the woodwork? Or are you just going to hang around and pretend you never uttered one hateful word about your team and athletic staff?

Go back to the week before Georgia. There was not a peep out of them. Of course we were told MMQB would be different this year - more like the baseball forum. But the forum has run off into the ditch again.

Well that is my one post for the week. 

[ChitownHawg]

Any one of you pukes defending anything an Arkansas State fan has to say need to be shown the door too.

Seriously?

[ChitownHawg]

You can take that as an "it's irrelevant so I didn't waste any of my time trying to think of any."  If it matters to you, look it up.  It doesn't matter to me and I'm not here to do your homework.

+1 

[JaketheSnake]

Yes coaches often watch film and keep stats for each position that plays into playing time. I'm sure you knew that with your cast knowledge of the game. You seem to have pushed an agenda with the rest of your comment bc it had nothing to do with what that woman and I were talking about.

His fall stats? Are you kidding me? Fall stats?

We can't kick a FG. We struggle mightily making a PAT. Our punter now shanks more than he booms. We average about -14 yards on almost every punt because either A) Dean is instructed to not catch the ball or B) is too spooked to catch it. I mean he is back there making a racket telling folks to run away from the ball and it looks like the viet cong running from hand grenades....we can't kickoff any further then the 15 yard line and when we return a kick, if Korliss isn't in there, we are lucky if we get it out to the 15.

Jeez...

Rebuild tho right?

PRJ

[Redhogs]

I cannot stress to you enough that the record is absolutely irrelevant this year and last year.  Being hung up on the record is literally looking at the wrong thing.  I know it seems like that's what you should do because results are all that matters.  But it's just not.  It absolutely doesn't matter what the record is this year or last year.  You should absolutely start to see the team taking shape from the coaching in the third year.  If you don't see clear progress in the wins column, then, I'm on board.  Time to start worrying.

Personally I would say installation of the "system" progresses like this:

Year 1: 5% new staff, 95% previous staff (in our case, total trash--demolished by JLS...would say foundation was very good from Petrino before that)
Year 2: 20% new staff, 80% previous staff
Year 3: 60% new staff, 40% previous
Year 4: 90% new staff, 10% previous
Year 5: 98%

trending upwards to 100%

Yes, there is still a small percentage of stuff that carries over even after everyone has graduated.  The ones on campus in year 5 learned some stuff from the ones before them from the previous staff.  I know this from experience.

Year 2 to 3 is a big jump.  I have seen this pretty consistently.  Yes it is possible to get ahead of that schedule if you are in a good situation or if the previous staff was very good, had some good points you can build from, or you are just lucky, etc.

"I cannot stress to you enough that the record is absolutely irrelevant this year and last year"....your post lost all credibility and common sense with the first sentence.

[Redhogs]

His fall stats? Are you kidding me? Fall stats?

We can't kick a FG. We struggle mightily making a PAT. Our punter now shanks more than he booms. We average about -14 yards on almost every punt because either A) Dean is instructed to not catch the ball or B) is too spooked to catch it. I mean he is back there making a racket telling folks to run away from the ball and it looks like the viet cong running from hand grenades....we can't kickoff any further then the 15 yard line and when we return a kick, if Korliss isn't in there, we are lucky if we get it out to the 15.

Jeez...

Rebuild tho right?

PRJ

Exactly..this kicking thing is amazing. It's not like Hocker being a senior was a secret.

[immahog]

Shut the hell up.

You admitted explicitly this is a troll thread when you said you hang around for the meltdowns when the Hogs lose.

Be gone, please.

Moderators worth their salt should show this guy the door.

stop it ......he is right I agree with every word 100%

[Randy Johnson]

You are a Red Wolf fan that's your problem.

[Marshfieldhog]

Great coaches don't lose their first 12 conference games no matter the situation. CBB has had plenty of close games to coach us to a win. CBB will get at least 4-5 years but expect mediocrity and 8 win seasons as being the ceiling.

Great AD's don't screw up a bad situation like Long ended up with. Long's screwup began with approving Jessica's hiring when he should have stepped in and questioned. Hiring JLS, wow! Hiring a coach with a whole new philosophy as our roster had and the way college football is trending including the high school ranks. Jeff Long should be ran out of town.

[colbs]

So tell me again why JL hired a coach with a completely different coaching philosophy? This question is never brought up. Always "we need 5 years!! We need 5 years!!"...I simply ask why?

So BP shouldn't have been hired because he has a different coaching philosophy than Nutt?

[code red]

This is just my two cents on the plight of Razorback football. FWIW, some of you are just plain ridiculous with your bashing of your team, your coaches, and of Jeff Long. Now I am a Red Wolf fan but I hang out on Hogville mainly for the golf forum and for the laughs every time this board melts down after each loss. But with that being said.....

Jeff Long had no choice in firing Petrino. The man flat out lied to Long and tried to cover it up. If YOU owned a company and your best employee did the same thing you would have to do the same as Long did. Sure your employee might make you a lot of money. But no one will want to do business with a company that has no integrity. And eventually your company would go broke.

Moving on to Bielema. Do those of you bashing him seriously expect him to beat top ten teams in his SECOND YEAR after the mess the program was left in by his predecessors? If you did you have unrealistic expectations. You got to give the man at least four years. Time enough for his first recruiting class to become seniors. Then if he is still failing you can rightfully cut him loose.

Now as for Brandon Allen. He should get the same pass as the Coach. Allen is having to play against those same top ten teams and it is stupid to think he can succeed with the team as it is currently constructed when it was left in shambles by Smith and Petrino. Give him enough better players as teammates and he will be a better QB for your team.

Here's my question. Next year when your team starts having more success, are the bashers going to just disappear into the woodwork? Or are you just going to hang around and pretend you never uttered one hateful word about your team and athletic staff?

0-16 with a non conference loss as well...yr 2..what do I expect?  Not to have the longest conference losing streak in college football.  That would be a start.  Help me paint that in a positive light please.  Because..we can only say showing improvement for a couple more months..then it needs to be about winning. 

[JaketheSnake]

Slightly off topic

Great coaches don't lose their first 12 conference games no matter the situation. CBB has had plenty of close games to coach us to a win. CBB will get at least 4-5 years but expect mediocrity and 8 win seasons as being the ceiling.

Great AD's don't screw up a bad situation like Long ended up with. Long's screwup began with approving Jessica's hiring when he should have stepped in and questioned. Hiring JLS, wow! Hiring a coach with a whole new philosophy as our roster had and the way college football is trending including the high school ranks. Jeff Long should be ran out of town.

[hellwonthaveme]

Exactly..this kicking thing is amazing. It's not like Hocker being a senior was a secret.

I believe the guy who I wrote that to posted yesterday or the day before that because special teams...I.e. kicker, punt returner, special teams in general, well they were the least important thing on the totem pole of this rebuild of untold magnitude so Bret was waiting until every other position is 6 deep full of talent and then he will get the special teams sorted out.

PRJ

[PorkRinds]

I think some criticism is to be expected when the success hasn't shown up in wins yet.  Some folks just go over the top with it, and start blaming any and everyone they can think of.  They start second guessing coaches, players, administration, and everyone in between.  It's just part of it I guess, but sometimes it crosses the line into downright destructive.

[hellwonthaveme]

0-16 with a non conference loss as well...yr 2..what do I expect?  Not to have the longest conference losing streak in college football.  That would be a start.  Help me paint that in a positive light please.  Because..we can only say showing improvement for a couple more months..then it needs to be about winning. 

Now....now....just read possible oatmeal. He has experience with this rebuild of epic proportions.  You and me? We have never rebuilt anything and surely not to the level of this guy.

Bret needs to hire him as his press secretary and send him out for daily briefings.

PRJ

[GolfNut57]

You are a Red Wolf fan that's your problem.

Yeah but that is a cross I am willing to bear. 

I didn't post the OP to be a troll. I only pointed out that I am an ASU fan merely to show that my opinion is not from someone who is a Razorback homer. An outside perspective as it may be.

And though some may not like the fact that I am a ASU fan posting here, it doesn't change the validity of my post whatsoever.

[Southpointhog]

This is just my two cents on the plight of Razorback football. FWIW, some of you are just plain ridiculous with your bashing of your team, your coaches, and of Jeff Long. Now I am a Red Wolf fan but I hang out on Hogville mainly for the golf forum and for the laughs every time this board melts down after each loss. But with that being said.....

Jeff Long had no choice in firing Petrino. The man flat out lied to Long and tried to cover it up. If YOU owned a company and your best employee did the same thing you would have to do the same as Long did. Sure your employee might make you a lot of money. But no one will want to do business with a company that has no integrity. And eventually your company would go broke.

Moving on to Bielema. Do those of you bashing him seriously expect him to beat top ten teams in his SECOND YEAR after the mess the program was left in by his predecessors? If you did you have unrealistic expectations. You got to give the man at least four years. Time enough for his first recruiting class to become seniors. Then if he is still failing you can rightfully cut him loose.

Now as for Brandon Allen. He should get the same pass as the Coach. Allen is having to play against those same top ten teams and it is stupid to think he can succeed with the team as it is currently constructed when it was left in shambles by Smith and Petrino. Give him enough better players as teammates and he will be a better QB for your team.

Here's my question. Next year when your team starts having more success, are the bashers going to just disappear into the woodwork? Or are you just going to hang around and pretend you never uttered one hateful word about your team and athletic staff?

I agree with this.  Everytime I get on HV these same feelings rise up.  +1

[immahog]

you negative folks need to shut up either support our coaches an players or go find another team to pull for .....Im so damn sick of all the hall of fame coaches qbs D backs etc on hogville they need your support the negative BS does not help at all...an for you low life classless folks going at our coach an players on twitter ....GET A LIFE

[Randy Johnson]

Yeah but that is a cross I am willing to bear. 

I didn't post the OP to be a troll. I only pointed out that I am an ASU fan merely to show that my opinion is not from someone who is a Razorback homer. An outside perspective as it may be.

And though some may not like the fact that I am a ASU fan posting here, it doesn't change the validity of my post whatsoever.

Yes it does. You are not an outsider...you are a misguided Red Wolf fan who is not unbiased. Your opinions are that of a Red Wolf. Go howl. We call hogs here. Anyone reading your post should remember where your heart is.

[jkstock04]

we can only say showing improvement for a couple more months..then it needs to be about winning. 

That's just the thing though...to a lot of people, it REALLY isn't about winning. Some people not only are content with how things are...they are excited about it...because they can easily foresee greatness within 5 years when others can't.... Similar to seeing a blowout win against Georgia. A lot of people have this positive foresight...have zero doubt they are wrong, but there is no factual basis behind it.

In my opinion, what the deal here is....people like this coach, system, and ideology (moral/building it right stuff) so much...that at the end of the day winning football games is maybe 5th on the list. This is not facetious talk either, a majority of Arkansans feel this way.

Essentially, if we like the way you go about yourself and your business.... The finish product doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things.
   

[thefisher]

So I take that as a NO, you can't think of any successful program rebuilds that began with the staff losing 12 straight conference games. It's ok, I can't think of any either.

Similar.  Bill Snyder at Kansas State. His first year was 1-10 including 0-7 in conference. A much weaker conference I might add. He went 2-5 in conference his second year. He went 2-5 in conference his fourth year as well. 

In fact Bill Snyder never got a team to a bowl game until his FIFTH year!

Of course he is now  the elder statesmen of active coaches.  His Wildcats are in the hunt for another conference championship this year. They knocked off highly touted Oklahoma last Saturday and have the inside track.  They play in a stadium named "The Bill Snyder family Stadium".

Not identical ... but dang close.

Oh yeah ... CBB is from Snyder's immediate coaching tree.

Sit back and let them do the work.  It doesn't happen in a year or two for a complete rebuild. However, it does happen with CBB's philosophy and method. It then has a foundation laid for long term continued success. Again, just check his coaching tree.

[hellwonthaveme]

you negative folks need to shut up either support our coaches an players or go find another team to pull for .....Im so damn sick of all the hall of fame coaches qbs D backs etc on hogville they need your support the negative BS does not help at all...an for you low life classless folks going at our coach an players on twitter ....GET A LIFE

0-12.....

PRJ

[GolfNut57]

Great coaches don't lose their first 12 conference games no matter the situation. CBB has had plenty of close games to coach us to a win. CBB will get at least 4-5 years but expect mediocrity and 8 win seasons as being the ceiling.

Great AD's don't screw up a bad situation like Long ended up with. Long's screwup began with approving Jessica's hiring when he should have stepped in and questioned. Hiring JLS, wow! Hiring a coach with a whole new philosophy as our roster had and the way college football is trending including the high school ranks. Jeff Long should be ran out of town.

Please note that I never said or even inferred that Bielema is a great coach. But he was a very successful coach in the Big Ten and as many of you have pointed out, the SEC and specifically the SEC West is the toughest division in all of football. So now that he is struggling to refill the empty cupboard he was left by the former staffs, and is struggling to win games in the mighty SEC, it is a shock to some of you? I don't know why. To me, going from the Big Ten to the SEC is equivalent to a coach that is coaching Jr College ball going to a 4 year FBS school. Give the man time and he will fulfill your dreams.

As for Jessica, What was Long supposed to say when BP came to him wanting to hire her? Who else was available when Long hired JLS? Bet his choices were very limited.

[DeltaBoy]

It is easy for ASU fans to cast stones since they had 3 coaches in 3 years and won their conferance all 3 years if memory serves me right.

[jkstock04]

Great coaches don't lose their first 12 conference games no matter the situation. CBB has had plenty of close games to coach us to a win. CBB will get at least 4-5 years but expect mediocrity and 8 win seasons as being the ceiling.

I think this is a fair statement. Think about it...if this truly was the greatest football staff ever assembled at the university, as so many claim, we would've figured out by now how to win one of these games. Coaching does matter...a lot.

Seeing the same exact critical mistakes from one week to the next screams red flag in the coaching department guys.

[GolfNut57]

It is easy for ASU fans to cast stones since they had 3 coaches in 3 years and won their conferance all 3 years if memory serves me right.

Except that I am not here to cast stones. Merely to offer my two cents of the matter. FWIW I didn't expect it to be received 100% on here with favoritism. But it was something I felt that needed to be said.

[PorkRinds]

I think this is a fair statement. Think about it...if this truly was the greatest football staff ever assembled at the university, as so many claim, we would've figured out by now how to win one of these games. Coaching does matter...a lot.

Seeing the same exact critical mistakes from one week to the next screams red flag in the coaching department guys.

So what do you think it means?  That they aren't coaching the players not to make those mistakes? 

[jkstock04]

So what do you think it means?  That they aren't coaching the players not to make those mistakes? 

Either that or there is a deficiency. Just for example two weeks in a row a missed/blocked PAT at possible crucial times or moments of game? In my opinion, that's ridiculous and falls on the coach(es).

One could make the argument the kicking game has cost us two games this year.