Redshirt discussion

[idochog]

What factual evidence do you have that makes you think CBB is purposely sitting players that could help us???

CBB has proven over and over both here and at Wisky that he will do what is necessary to help his team succeed from coaches to players.  Why would he purposely sit all these wonderful star players and not play them?

SEE HOUSTON DALE NUTT on how to waste a kids redshirt years

[DeltaBoy]

I just wonder what in the hades our 2 RB's did to get in the Dog house.

[hogsanity]

I just wonder what in the hades our 2 RB's did to get in the Dog house.

Which two? BB was pretty plain about KM, off field issues are going to cost him 2-3 more weeks. AC has two fumbles in the last two games inside our own 20 ( and now here will come a bunch of BA bashers saying the one against GA was BA's fault ), and JW is apparently nursing a sore/injured left shoulder.

[Mike_e]

What factual evidence do you have that makes you think CBB is purposely sitting players that could help us???

CBB has proven over and over both here and at Wisky that he will do what is necessary to help his team succeed from coaches to players.  Why would he purposely sit all these wonderful star players and not play them?

SEE HOUSTON DALE NUTT on how to waste a kids redshirt years

I dunno but if that jeff long kid is makin all of the money he's supposed to be makin then they dang well ouldta start him.

[Wildhog]

If I wanted to look at how to waste a redshirt, I'd look at Anthony Brown and Cornelius Floyd.

[tbhogfan]

The only position I wish we had not redshirted is our scholarship placekicker.   Missed PAT's are killing us.  There's no learning curve to kicking a ball 20 yards.

[wholehog92]

I don't think I've said much on the subject of redshirts on this board, but since you asked, there is significant room to question the personnel decisions made on this team.

How much different would we have looked with AJ Derby playing tight end last season and how good would he look this season with more experience? Just needed to pull Austin's RS last year and make him the backup.  Oh and by the way, he would be a backup with experience this year with a ton more snaps in practice.  We wouldn't have lost any more games.

I've got no idea what good redshirting a kicker does.  It apparently does not help us look good place kicking on the field.

Redshirting helps in positions where strength and power are the key components.  linemen,DL, linebackers, and injuries are where a redshirt is worthwhile.  You have an 85 scholarship limit.  Loading skill position players up on redshirt and taking a scholarship spot ultimately just creates a thin spot on the depth chart.

I haven't been griping about it, because I believe in giving a coach 3 years and deciding if I'm happy with the product on the field and the direction of the program at that time.  But since you asked, I don't mind giving you my opinion on the matter.  BB may prove me wrong and pioneer a new philosophy in college football and Nick Saban will start redshirting kickers next season it works so well.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

If I wanted to look at how to waste a redshirt, I'd look at Anthony Brown and Cornelius Floyd.

Didn't realize Brown had played.

[hogsanity]

I don't think I've said much on the subject of redshirts on this board, but since you asked, there is significant room to question the personnel decisions made on this team.

How much different would we have looked with AJ Derby playing tight end last season and how good would he look this season with more experience? Just needed to pull Austin's RS last year and make him the backup.  Oh and by the way, he would be a backup with experience this year with a ton more snaps in practice.  We wouldn't have lost any more games.

I've got no idea what good redshirting a kicker does.  It apparently does not help us look good place kicking on the field.

Redshirting helps in positions where strength and power are the key components.  linemen,DL, linebackers, and injuries are where a redshirt is worthwhile.  You have an 85 scholarship limit.  Loading skill position players up on redshirt and taking a scholarship spot ultimately just creates a thin spot on the depth chart.

I haven't been griping about it, because I believe in giving a coach 3 years and deciding if I'm happy with the product on the field and the direction of the program at that time.  But since you asked, I don't mind giving you my opinion on the matter.  BB may prove me wrong and pioneer a new philosophy in college football and Nick Saban will start redshirting kickers next season it works so well.

On Derby/AA, they would have had to make that decision in fall camp, when AA had been here all of about a week, in order to get Derby work at TE. It is ALWAYS hard to get the backup experience. It is not like putting in another RB and saying here hit this hole. the Qb has to know the game plan, the reads, the audibles, etc. 

Has it crossed anyone's mind that Hedlund ASKED to RS for some reason? Maybe trouble adjusting to not having a tee anymore? Maybe he developed a case of the yips?

[HSVhogfan2]

What factual evidence do you have that makes you think CBB is purposely sitting players that could help us???

CBB has proven over and over both here and at Wisky that he will do what is necessary to help his team succeed from coaches to players.  Why would he purposely sit all these wonderful star players and not play them?

SEE HOUSTON DALE NUTT on how to waste a kids redshirt years

Is an 0-12 record proving that he will do what's necessary to succeed?

[bphi11ips]

Has it crossed anyone's mind that Hedlund ASKED to RS for some reason? Maybe trouble adjusting to not having a tee anymore? Maybe he developed a case of the yips?

I suggested the first two as possibilities.  Not likely on the yips, and videos available on-line tend to indicate no problem without the tee.  Hedlund is not very big and may feel a year to develop could help him in the long run.  If that's the case, however, I don't see any reason for Bielema to not just come out and say Hedlund felt like he needs a year in the weightroom.  He initially said Henson "won" the competition in "Fall Camp" (I'm basing this on Hogville), but he later said Hedlund will work on strength  during his year off.  I've never heard that redshirting was Hedlund's request, though it may well have been.

Now, have you considered that the decision may have been based on Bielema's commitment to send a message to walk-ons that they can earn a scholarship with dedication to hard work?  Could he believe that placekickers are to some extent fungible and that Henson gave him a good opportunity to send that message while preserving a great placekicker to go with his great punter for the next four years?  And could his reasoning have had anything to do with a belief during preseason that 2014 is not a year to focus on the record?

[DukeOfPork]

The only position I wish we had not redshirted is our scholarship placekicker.   Missed PAT's are killing us.  There's no learning curve to kicking a ball 20 yards.

The PATs have been blocked rather than missed.  Kirkland was absolutely to blame for the block against UGA.

[hogsanity]

Now, have you considered that the decision may have been based on Bielema's commitment to send a message to walk-ons that they can earn a scholarship with dedication to hard work?  Could he believe that placekickers are to some extent fungible and that Henson gave him a good opportunity to send that message while preserving a great placekicker to go with his great punter for the next four years?  And could his reasoning have had anything to do with a belief during preseason that 2014 is not a year to focus on the record?

Sure that is possible.  It is also possible BB figured that using him this year was just a waste because he did not plan on kick many fg's, or a dozen other reasons for RS him.

Also, by RS him, if he is the kicker that was worth a scholarship, BB won't have to worry about the PK job for 4 years to come.

[bphi11ips]

Sure that is possible.  It is also possible BB figured that using him this year was just a waste because he did not plan on kick many fg's, or a dozen other reasons for RS him.

Also, by RS him, if he is the kicker that was worth a scholarship, BB won't have to worry about the PK job for 4 years to come.

Seems like you just agreed with me. 

[3kgthog]

I'm not sure I like BB giving out the little tidbits concerning what may or may not have been said by KM or others. Keep it internal, use the team rules excuse, and move on.

As for blocked PATs, a kicker with a really low trajectory can get a kick blocked just as easily as a lineman missing a block.

[Danny J]

Did I not hear Rainwater say on drive-by sports that the "spirited conversation" Bielema referred to was Marshall asking why the RB's get benched for fumbles and Allen doesn't?

HA!!!! I posted the same question in regards to benching players who fumble with the exception of Allen in a couple different threads the day of and the day after the game. He(Marshall) certainly asks a great question.

[Danny J]

I'm not sure I like BB giving out the little tidbits concerning what may or may not have been said by KM or others. Keep it internal, use the team rules excuse, and move on.

As for blocked PATs, a kicker with a really low trajectory can get a kick blocked just as easily as a lineman missing a block.

Correct and BB said as much when changing kickers. So I think it was a bit of both. We need to spend the next two weeks working extremely hard on all facets of the special teams game. They hurt us badly in both the aTm and Bama games.

[hogsanity]

HA!!!! I posted the same question in regards to benching players who fumble with the exception of Allen in a couple different threads the day of and the day after the game. He(Marshall) certainly asks a great question.

I have not heard KM, or any other player ask that. BB certainly did not indicate that was the problem with KM. He said KM made decisions AWAY from the team, and he needs to get that straightened out.

99.9% of qbs do not get benched for fumbling or throwing a pick or two.

[smb]

Razorbacks need a SEC win in a bad way.

[Prestworthy]

So does amost every other QB. When a QB gets hit from behind it should be a fumble for the defense almost everytime.

Seems to be more common with BA.  But when you don't scan the field, it happens more.

[hogsanity]

Seems to be more common with BA.  But when you don't scan the field, it happens more.

Just how many fumbles/fumbles lost does BA have this season when being hit?

[DukeOfPork]

He(Marshall) certainly asks a great question.

I don't know where that story came from.  At this point, I would assume that is yet another product of the Hogville Ministry of Disinformation.

[Oklahawg]

Hard to accurately measure the wisdom of redshirts. Too tempting to look back, retroactively. That's a fool's game. And, too tempting, to project something tomorrow that may or may not happen.

Pull the RS and the kid gets hurt. Oops. Nothing you can do about it.

Lightbulb fires in week three and you pull the RS. Then, oops, a new scheme driven by the next opponent causes the fire to fizzle.

Which RS do you burn or not burn: the one that helps you get the 6th win and a bowl, or the one that prevents a 6th win and a bowl, but makes 2015+ better?

These are the topics for May-July, when the board is slow because little new is going on. How the holy hell we are talking about this in mid-October is beyond me. No, it's not. It's HV, where posting is the alternate reality to playing non-stop video games in a parent's basement.

[DukeOfPork]

Seems to be more common with BA.  But when you don't scan the field, it happens more.

Seriously, why do you have a burr up your butt about Brandon?  Of all the things you could criticize him about, there is nothing more ridiculous than saying "he fumbles too often when he is blindsided in the pocket".

That's just a dumb thing to say. 

That is more of an indictment on the left tackle than it is the quarterback.

[Danny J]

I have not heard KM, or any other player ask that. BB certainly did not indicate that was the problem with KM. He said KM made decisions AWAY from the team, and he needs to get that straightened out.

99.9% of qbs do not get benched for fumbling or throwing a pick or two.

I don't know if he was asked in private or not just posting a follow-up to the situation if it were actually true.

I think it really depends going forward how he plays to whether or not he would ever be benched. I honestly have no idea what he is being taught in practice in regards to reading defenses and changing plays at the line. I do know on three straight pass play their CB was coming on a blitz and Hatcher was pointing out on two of them to BA that "hey....looks like my man is coming" and we didn't adjust once. I believe those three times were all under center. Almost as though they knew what play was coming. Hard for me to make any kind of educated guess as to what is or is not happening in the pass game as far as protections go because I have no idea what he is being taught. All guesses on my part.

[DukeOfPork]

These are the topics for May-July, when the board is slow because little new is going on. How the holy hell we are talking about this in mid-October is beyond me. No, it's not. It's HV, where posting is the alternate reality to playing non-stop video games in a parent's basement.

  So true.

I'm just astounded by the dearth of logical thought on this board.  I'm not sure that our fans actually watch much football.

[Danny J]

I don't know where that story came from.  At this point, I would assume that is yet another product of the Hogville Ministry of Disinformation.

That is certainly a possibility. I know I mentioned fumbles in regards to RB's versus BA the day of and the day after the UGA game and it is quite possible somebody picked up on that and made the entire story up attaching my questions to KM and his off the field troubles. I still think Hogsanity is correct....it relates to something off the field.

[Oklahawg]

Topic isn't BA, it is redshirting.

Keep it on topic. I must be grouchy, or something.

[GolfnHog]

It's HV, where posting is the alternate reality to playing non-stop video games in a parent's basement.

In the era of transparency, Oklahawg, I've made this statement my sig line.
thank you.

[HSVhogfan2]

I don't know if he was asked in private or not just posting a follow-up to the situation if it were actually true.

I think it really depends going forward how he plays to whether or not he would ever be benched. I honestly have no idea what he is being taught in practice in regards to reading defenses and changing plays at the line. I do know on three straight pass play their CB was coming on a blitz and Hatcher was pointing out on two of them to BA that "hey....looks like my man is coming" and we didn't adjust once. I believe those three times were all under center. Almost as though they knew what play was coming. Hard for me to make any kind of educated guess as to what is or is not happening in the pass game as far as protections go because I have no idea what he is being taught. All guesses on my part.

Pretty sure (certain) there was a "spirited" discussion between KM and one of the assistants that went too far. Don't know if that's the only reason or not. Seems a 4 game suspension a little harsh for a shouting match on a team that has been ofer for 2 years. Hell I would want all my players pissed and ready to fight.

[ricepig]

Pretty sure (certain) there was a "spirited" discussion between KM and one of the assistants that went too far. Don't know if that's the only reason or not. Seems a 4 game suspension a little harsh for a shouting match on a team that has been ofer for 2 years. Hell I would want all my players pissed and ready to fight.

Suspension was a university mandated one.

Bielema on Marshall: the suspension is based on university policy. Told him: Korliss this is a small chapter in the book of your life.

[hogsanity]

Pretty sure (certain) there was a "spirited" discussion between KM and one of the assistants that went too far. Don't know if that's the only reason or not. Seems a 4 game suspension a little harsh for a shouting match on a team that has been ofer for 2 years. Hell I would want all my players pissed and ready to fight.

YEs because every college team needs players shouting at coaches.

It is very doubtful that it even happened, much less resulted in a 4 game suspension.

[Oklahawg]

In the era of transparency, Oklahawg, I've made this statement my sig line.
thank you.

LOL

Thanks, I think.

[onebadrubi]

Didn't realize Brown had played.

Me neither, that is disappointing. 

[Ramtough]

On Derby/AA, they would have had to make that decision in fall camp, when AA had been here all of about a week, in order to get Derby work at TE. It is ALWAYS hard to get the backup experience. It is not like putting in another RB and saying here hit this hole. the Qb has to know the game plan, the reads, the audibles, etc. 

Has it crossed anyone's mind that Hedlund ASKED to RS for some reason? Maybe trouble adjusting to not having a tee anymore? Maybe he developed a case of the yips?

When they recruited Hedlund did they ever ask this kid to kick a few without a tee just to get a feel for his range and accuracy. Maybe see him at a camp somewhere kicking off the ground. I don't buy this idea that he now sucks without a tee.

[tophawg19]

he kicked without a tee in the camps and did really well.

[lefty08]

Very often a player signs with an agreement to redshirt. Doesn't always have anything to do with football, but rather just maturing and preparing for their college years. It isn't always a coaches decision

[jabohog]

The redshirted kicker is pretty frail. One hit from a SEC player would probably put him down for the count.

Anyone check the policy for failing a drug test? That would require about four games before testing again.

[HSVhogfan2]

YEs because every college team needs players shouting at coaches.

It is very doubtful that it even happened, much less resulted in a 4 game suspension.

It happened. I will defer to ricepigs explanation on the reason for 4 games.

[ricepig]

The redshirted kicker is pretty frail. One hit from a SEC player would probably put him down for the count.

Anyone check the policy for failing a drug test? That would require about four games before testing again.

Arkansas' policy is available on the internet, each SEC school's is a little different. We aren't the strictest, fall about mid-range.

[bphi11ips]

The redshirted kicker is pretty frail. One hit from a SEC player would probably put him down for the count.

Ever hear of Garo Yepremian?  How about Ish Ordonez? 

Anyone who really wants to know what we have the next four years in Cole Hedlund should watch his 6:51 HUDL video.  Just Google his name.  Watch it all.  See any tees?  Does he look frail as he bangs it out of the endzone from the 35 on one of his 64 touchbacks?  How about on his 57 yard field goal? 

We may still need to recruit more speed and LBers, but we're fine the next four years when it comes to kickers.

[HF#1]

Here are my thoughts on Redshirts...

QB: I think it's just solid logic to redshirt a QB at all cost unless they are an obvious all everything once in a program type talent, ala Tebow, Manziel, RG3, Jameis Winston...  Most Freshman QB's are not prepared to come in and contribute straight out of high school.  They have to learn the system, develop the nuances of being a QB at the next level of football.  This is especially true in the SEC.  A league where a QB's confidence can be demoralized in a matter of a few plays.  You redshirt any QB that doesn't have the talent to win you a championship right out of the gate.  We will be better off in 3-4 years because of Austin and Rafe redshirting.

O-line and D-line:  You don't have to redshirt these guys but you should.  Some are talented enough to come in and contribute right away.  But if you want to have depth and have quality depth, you should redshirt if possible. If someone gets hurt then you can yank the redshirt if necessary. Redshirt as many as possible here.

Everyone else: Linebacker, secondary, skill positions, all can be redshirted according to needs.  If you don't need a guy to fill a spot right away then it never hurts to redshirt them.  It only adds quality depth.  Guys like Alex Collins you just have to play.  He's too talented to leave on the bench.

Someone mentioned Cornelius...  I have no problem burning that kids redshirt.  We are already redshirting Jojo..  Cornelius and Edwards both need to play more.  They seem to catch damn near everything and Edwards actually has size AND speed.  WR is a big hole we need filled.  I hope these two can step up as the season moves forward.

As far as the kicker goes, Bielema has said, Cole needs to develop more, period.  He's not where he needs to be leg strength wise.  I trust Bielema's decision with this even though it's hurt us on the field this season.  Don't put a guy out there unless he can perform.

[thebignasty]

Here are my thoughts on Redshirts...

QB: I think it's just solid logic to redshirt a QB at all cost unless they are an obvious all everything once in a program type talent, ala Tebow, Manziel, RG3, Jameis Winston...  Most Freshman QB's are not prepared to come in and contribute straight out of high school.  They have to learn the system, develop the nuances of being a QB at the next level of football.  This is especially true in the SEC.  A league where a QB's confidence can be demoralized in a matter of a few plays.  You redshirt any QB that doesn't have the talent to win you a championship right out of the gate.  We will be better off in 3-4 years because of Austin and Rafe redshirting.

O-line and D-line:  You don't have to redshirt these guys but you should.  Some are talented enough to come in and contribute right away.  But if you want to have depth and have quality depth, you should redshirt if possible. If someone gets hurt then you can yank the redshirt if necessary. Redshirt as many as possible here.

Everyone else: Linebacker, secondary, skill positions, all can be redshirted according to needs.  If you don't need a guy to fill a spot right away then it never hurts to redshirt them.  It only adds quality depth.  Guys like Alex Collins you just have to play.  He's too talented to leave on the bench.

Someone mentioned Cornelius...  I have no problem burning that kids redshirt.  We are already redshirting Jojo..  Cornelius and Edwards both need to play more.  They seem to catch damn near everything and Edwards actually has size AND speed.  WR is a big hole we need filled.  I hope these two can step up as the season moves forward.

As far as the kicker goes, Bielema has said, Cole needs to develop more, period.  He's not where he needs to be leg strength wise.  I trust Bielema's decision with this even though it's hurt us on the field this season.  Don't put a guy out there unless he can perform.

Different Cornelius.

Jared Cornelius is a receiver.  Cornelius Floyd is a db.

[bphi11ips]

As far as the kicker goes, Bielema has said, Cole needs to develop more, period.  He's not where he needs to be leg strength wise.  I trust Bielema's decision with this even though it's hurt us on the field this season.  Don't put a guy out there unless he can perform.

Good post in general.  However, do you trust your own eyes?  Watch the HUDL video. 

Bielema made a mistake with Hedlund where 2014 is concerned.  It will pay off in 2018. 

[lefty08]

Here are my thoughts on Redshirts...

QB: I think it's just solid logic to redshirt a QB at all cost unless they are an obvious all everything once in a program type talent, ala Tebow, Manziel, RG3, Jameis Winston...  Most Freshman QB's are not prepared to come in and contribute straight out of high school.  They have to learn the system, develop the nuances of being a QB at the next level of football.  This is especially true in the SEC.  A league where a QB's confidence can be demoralized in a matter of a few plays.  You redshirt any QB that doesn't have the talent to win you a championship right out of the gate.  We will be better off in 3-4 years because of Austin and Rafe redshirting.

O-line and D-line:  You don't have to redshirt these guys but you should.  Some are talented enough to come in and contribute right away.  But if you want to have depth and have quality depth, you should redshirt if possible. If someone gets hurt then you can yank the redshirt if necessary. Redshirt as many as possible here.

Everyone else: Linebacker, secondary, skill positions, all can be redshirted according to needs.  If you don't need a guy to fill a spot right away then it never hurts to redshirt them.  It only adds quality depth.  Guys like Alex Collins you just have to play.  He's too talented to leave on the bench.

Someone mentioned Cornelius...  I have no problem burning that kids redshirt.  We are already redshirting Jojo..  Cornelius and Edwards both need to play more.  They seem to catch damn near everything and Edwards actually has size AND speed.  WR is a big hole we need filled.  I hope these two can step up as the season moves forward.

As far as the kicker goes, Bielema has said, Cole needs to develop more, period.  He's not where he needs to be leg strength wise.  I trust Bielema's decision with this even though it's hurt us on the field this season.  Don't put a guy out there unless he can perform.

Pretty sure all those guys mentioned with the exception of Tebow  Redshirted

[Adam Stokes]

Well, if I have learned anything from EA Sports NCAA Football, it is that when the bulk of your team redshirts, they do magical things.  Jokes aside, there is no proof that Hedlund would've made the difference as a freshman kicker, and we all knew this season was going to be 7 wins at best.  I don't see why we don't simply invest for the future.

[PorkRinds]

Here are my thoughts on Redshirts...

QB: I think it's just solid logic to redshirt a QB at all cost unless they are an obvious all everything once in a program type talent, ala Tebow, Manziel, RG3, Jameis Winston...  Most Freshman QB's are not prepared to come in and contribute straight out of high school.  They have to learn the system, develop the nuances of being a QB at the next level of football.  This is especially true in the SEC.  A league where a QB's confidence can be demoralized in a matter of a few plays.  You redshirt any QB that doesn't have the talent to win you a championship right out of the gate.  We will be better off in 3-4 years because of Austin and Rafe redshirting.

O-line and D-line:  You don't have to redshirt these guys but you should.  Some are talented enough to come in and contribute right away.  But if you want to have depth and have quality depth, you should redshirt if possible. If someone gets hurt then you can yank the redshirt if necessary. Redshirt as many as possible here.

Everyone else: Linebacker, secondary, skill positions, all can be redshirted according to needs.  If you don't need a guy to fill a spot right away then it never hurts to redshirt them.  It only adds quality depth.  Guys like Alex Collins you just have to play.  He's too talented to leave on the bench.

Someone mentioned Cornelius...  I have no problem burning that kids redshirt.  We are already redshirting Jojo..  Cornelius and Edwards both need to play more.  They seem to catch damn near everything and Edwards actually has size AND speed.  WR is a big hole we need filled.  I hope these two can step up as the season moves forward.

As far as the kicker goes, Bielema has said, Cole needs to develop more, period.  He's not where he needs to be leg strength wise.  I trust Bielema's decision with this even though it's hurt us on the field this season.  Don't put a guy out there unless he can perform.

Both redshirted.