Support Jim Chaney?

[popcornhog]

I am absolutely a Bielema supporter. I like the recruiting. I like the overall philosophy of what he is building.

I'm starting to question whether it makes sense to continue the relationship with our OC though. Some of you may know X's and O's better than me and be able to explain why I'm wrong. But yesterday was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Why do we run so many plays that involve a toss to a running back as opposed to handing the ball off? I ask because it seems like these plays result in too high a rate of fumbles.

This doesn't apply to the UGA game -- but why, in close games, do we resort to a vertical passing game so much in the second half? Against TTU we continued to do what we're good at and it wore them down. Do we just not have the horses to do it in the SEC yet?

Finally, why do we not see screens, bubble routes, or draws in situations where they seem to fit? Is it a personnel thing?

[Großer Kriegschwein]

All of that has been discussed at length over the last 7 weeks. Every single bit of it. Even the screen pass, bubble pass stuff. And that was answered by Chaney himself.

[Dominicanhog]

I like Chaney, he looks like he can run or throw... lets get more pieces before we make any changes.. I'm most worried about finishing this recruiting class.. we need to win a couple games.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

The thing that bothered me the most was NOT running the ball after we had just dominated the first drive!!

With that said, I support Cheney. Does us no good not to.

[Kevin]

i support him.

does make some questionable call, though

[Sooie71923]

Absolutely 100%

Not his fault the cows don't produce milk. Need better, milk producing cows.

[Dominicanhog]

Absolutely 100%

Not his fault the cows don't produce milk. Need better, milk producing cows.

so says the Pig...

[Sooie71923]

Get over running the ball. If the run is being shutdown every play only Houston Nutt would keep running it expecting a different result.

Hog fans are clueless!

[mizzouman]

I thought Chaney was an odd choice for CBB's offensive scheme.

[LJHOG]

let's see.  he has Casey Dick 2.0 at QB.  Sun Belt quality WR's. An O-line that can't pass block por chit and doesn't dominate good SEC D lines in the run game.
What would you have the man do?  From here to the end of the season a good day for our offense will be if we can score more for us than for them.

[popcornhog]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll probably be a little more upbeat in a couple of days.

[popcornhog]

All of that has been discussed at length over the last 7 weeks. Every single bit of it. Even the screen pass, bubble pass stuff. And that was answered by Chaney himself.

I guess I missed that stuff.

Is the heavy passing in the second half related to tired O linemen?

What about the tosses to the RB's? What's the  rationale there?

Thanks!

[hobhog]

422 yards, 29 first downs, 32 points.

And you want to fire the OC?

4 turnovers and stupid personal fouls cost us that game, along with a worn out defense.

[CallThemHawgs!]

His record is now something like 4-40 as a coordinator in the SEC. I cannot in good conscience support that.

Brandon Allen has made little, if any progress, and the offense still has no real identity in tough games.

Sorry Cheney, gotta go

[CallThemHawgs!]

422 yards, 29 first downs, 32 points.

And you want to fire the OC?

4 turnovers and stupid personal fouls cost us that game, along with a worn out defense.

Most of which came once Georgia was up 4 scores late in the second half. Nice try though.

[onebadrubi]

I'm not honestly smart enough nor know where to lay the blame.  I was at the game yesterday and specifically watched WR's and routes.  I personally hate our WR route tree.  I don't care if you think our WR are not SEC quality, depth, or speed issues, the routes they are being asked to run don't jive with down and distances in my opinion. 

my takes in bullet statement format, in which I'm not laying criticism at anyones feet, cause I dont honestly know but I assure you Bielema does.  If it's the OC he will resurrect that (like we saw at the DC spot last year), if it's personnel then we won't see a change and we will watch his recruits grow. 

-Route tree is awful
-BA did miss some open guys, but MANY plays were called that would take too long to work even with a hiesman candidate QB and WR.  They were just 5 step and 7 step routes when we needed 3 step. 
-We are still running routes 2 yards short of critical yards.

-We actually pass protect good at times yesterday, not yet consistent 

-Screens are said to not work with this Oline personnel. 

-Draws are lost on a dynamic way too big of play sheet. 

-BA made some awesome checks yesterday at the line, even though some here want to say he's not.  I saw hand motions and such to WR changing routes when he saw the D and they often were good calls. 

-Middle of the field proved late that it's where we need to be throwing.  HH and derby are begging to give them a shot at jump balls.  Don't forget Cornelious showed in A&M he will catch it when he knows a big hit is coming.

-WR routes are being called that BA simply can't make the throws, I'm talking throws that NFL QB's don't even hit at high %'s.  (sharpee these off the PLAYSHEET).
 
-WR personnel are bizarre.  We watch Cornelious make some nice grabs and moves, dissapears at times.  We watch Edwards make that leaping TD grab, yet where is he when the drive is between the 20's and for the other 30 minutes of the offense?  Derby needs to be targets 8 times or more every game the rest of the year.   

-when UGA had a 1 on 1 WR situation, he would run a double move or deep slant and they would hit it.  WHERE ARE THESE? (OC, QB, HC, or WR to blame, i have no idea?).

-Our 2 pt plays highlight why we are where we are.  If we had a couple plays that could get us 3-5 yards on a 80% plus success rate, we'd be top 10 in the nation.  That is all we are missing at this moment.  Contrary to all the bashing, coach hating, agenda's on this board, I believe we are missing those 3-5 yard plays that we can go to maybe 3 or 4 times a game and execute 80% or more.  Go to these when it's 3rd and 4 and if you fail it would be a 3 and out, score deep in the redzone, maybe when you need to get out of deep in the opponent red zone. 

-PAT blocked are not on this kicker, our line is getting killed on the right side on the PAT trys. 
All that being said, CHubb is a beast no doubt.  UGA will win the east and has a above par SEC team at this moment. 

[onebadrubi]

His record is now something like 4-40 as a coordinator in the SEC. I cannot in good conscience support that.

Brandon Allen has made little, if any progress, and the offense still has no real identity in tough games.

Sorry Cheney, gotta go

Really, BA hasn't made any progress over last year?  You sure your hatred isn't covering up the truth there? 

[z1on]

let's see.  he has Casey Dick 2.0 at QB.  Sun Belt quality WR's. An O-line that can't pass block por chit and doesn't dominate good SEC D lines in the run game.
What would you have the man do?  From here to the end of the season a good day for our offense will be if we can score more for us than for them.

Our WR's aren't nearly as bad as many of you make them seem.

[hobhog]

Most of which came once Georgia was up 4 scores late in the second half. Nice try though.

I was there and could have sworn we turned the ball over, had penalties that extended UGA drives, and had horrible special team play, all in first half. But I'll defer to experts.

[Horthawg]

His record is now something like 4-40 as a coordinator in the SEC. I cannot in good conscience support that.

Brandon Allen has made little, if any progress, and the offense still has no real identity in tough games.

Sorry Cheney, gotta go

It's 5-31. 0 for SEC since he's been here and some people want him retained. Ok, fair enough. I mean. gee whiz you gotta give a guy at least 100 SEC games before an accurate appraisal of his abilities can be determined.

[Locutus_of_Boar]

The thing that bothered me the most was NOT running the ball after we had just dominated the first drive!!

With that said, I support Chaney. Does us no good not to.

I also voted to support Chaney.

The OC will always be the lightning rod for fan dissatisfaction on CBBs staff.  Right now Chaney is calling a game his personnel are not quite good enough to execute.  If he did the opposite and stayed within their ability everyone would be complaining too.

Arkansas lost yesterday not because of play calling but rather because the team was emotionally and to some extent physically spent by the effort in Arlington and against Bama.  Throw in loss of our linebackers and the defense collapsed in the 2nd quarter.

The Hogs weren't the only ones to suffer this yesterday.  Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee, and A&M hit the wall too as did Mizzou the week before.  Of that bunch only Arkansas fought back to try and make a game of it in the 2nd half.  That is directly attributable to the physical conditioning, leadership of the head coach, and some fairly good play calling ny the coaches and considerable heart from the players.

[Melorock089]

Bielema praised the offense (save the turnovers) in the post game presser. Get comfortable with Chaney.

I am curious to see how he does with a different QB.

There is still some very frustrating moments though.

[Bebop]

I'm not honestly smart enough nor know where to lay the blame.  I was at the game yesterday and specifically watched WR's and routes.  I personally hate our WR route tree.  I don't care if you think our WR are not SEC quality, depth, or speed issues, the routes they are being asked to run don't jive with down and distances in my opinion. 

I've been wondering why our WRs don't get separation more than they should and you (as well as Clint Stoerner's observations) have kind of confirmed my suspicion that we are somewhat generic in our routes.

my takes in bullet statement format, in which I'm not laying criticism at anyones feet, cause I dont honestly know but I assure you Bielema does.  If it's the OC he will resurrect that (like we saw at the DC spot last year), if it's personnel then we won't see a change and we will watch his recruits grow. 

-Route tree is awful
-BA did miss some open guys, but MANY plays were called that would take too long to work even with a hiesman candidate QB and WR.  They were just 5 step and 7 step routes when we needed 3 step. 
-We are still running routes 2 yards short of critical yards.

-We actually pass protect good at times yesterday, not yet consistent 

-Screens are said to not work with this Oline personnel. 

-Draws are lost on a dynamic way too big of play sheet. 

-BA made some awesome checks yesterday at the line, even though some here want to say he's not.  I saw hand motions and such to WR changing routes when he saw the D and they often were good calls. 

-Middle of the field proved late that it's where we need to be throwing.  HH and derby are begging to give them a shot at jump balls.  Don't forget Cornelious showed in A&M he will catch it when he knows a big hit is coming.

-WR routes are being called that BA simply can't make the throws, I'm talking throws that NFL QB's don't even hit at high %'s.  (sharpee these off the PLAYSHEET).
 
-WR personnel are bizarre.  We watch Cornelious make some nice grabs and moves, dissapears at times.  We watch Edwards make that leaping TD grab, yet where is he when the drive is between the 20's and for the other 30 minutes of the offense?  Derby needs to be targets 8 times or more every game the rest of the year. 

-when UGA had a 1 on 1 WR situation, he would run a double move or deep slant and they would hit it.  WHERE ARE THESE? (OC, QB, HC, or WR to blame, i have no idea?).

-Our 2 pt plays highlight why we are where we are.  If we had a couple plays that could get us 3-5 yards on a 80% plus success rate, we'd be top 10 in the nation.  That is all we are missing at this moment.  Contrary to all the bashing, coach hating, agenda's on this board, I believe we are missing those 3-5 yard plays that we can go to maybe 3 or 4 times a game and execute 80% or more.  Go to these when it's 3rd and 4 and if you fail it would be a 3 and out, score deep in the redzone, maybe when you need to get out of deep in the opponent red zone. 

-PAT blocked are not on this kicker, our line is getting killed on the right side on the PAT trys. 
All that being said, CHubb is a beast no doubt.  UGA will win the east and has a above par SEC team at this moment.

Good analysis overall. The bold portion is want I am going to comment on:

1) We have thrown more to the outside than over the middle even though we have had good success through the middle. Even when WRs are overlooked by BA in the middle, there seems to be some getting open. I don't know why we haven't thrown more around the middle. Being saying this since A&M and it's probably been going on (without looking) since last year. Which leads me to my next point

2) Why are we asking Brandon Allen to throw low percentage throws? It has shown that it hasn't work with great success. People have harped about listening to dumb Tenner fans, but they commented on why Chaney was having his QB throw low percentage shots. This isn't the first complaint that Chaney has had about this issue.

3) I don't get it, either.

4) Lastly, BA has improved but not to the point to where he probably be at in his career. We need a QB coach.

[popcornhog]

422 yards, 29 first downs, 32 points.

And you want to fire the OC?

4 turnovers and stupid personal fouls cost us that game, along with a worn out defense.

A lot of that was in garbage time, you know that. The game was well in hand by the half.

Still, you may have a point. I might be overreacting.

What's your take on all of the pitches this year in running situations? It seems to result in more fumbles. Is there an inherent advantage in our system with our personnel to these pitches that I am missing?

[onebadrubi]

I've been wondering why our WRs don't get separation more than they should and you (as well as Clint Stoerner's observations) have kind of confirmed my suspicion that we are somewhat generic in our routes.


Good analysis overall. The bold portion is want I am going to comment on:

1) We have thrown more to the outside than over the middle even though we have had good success through the middle. Even when WRs are overlooked by BA in the middle, there seems to be some getting open. I don't know why we haven't thrown more around the middle. Being saying this since A&M and it's probably been going on (without looking) since last year. Which leads me to my next point

2) Why are we asking Brandon Allen to throw low percentage throws? It has shown that it hasn't work with great success. People have harped about listening to dumb Tenner fans, but they commented on why Chaney was having his QB throw low percentage shots. This isn't the first complaint that Chaney has had about this issue.

3) I don't get it, either.

4) Lastly, BA has improved but not to the point to where he probably be at in his career. We need a QB coach.

Generic I'm not sure on.  I would say they are just slow developing.  Two of the times BA yesterday was flushed out right was mainly due to his wr routes needing 5-7 step drops when pressure was brought and he was only going to be given 3 steps. 

Something I just thought of and have no idea if it has anything to do with it, I wonder how well BA see's the middle of the field with 20 yards of the ling of scrimmage with the size of our O line. 

[ricepig]

i support him.

does make some questionable call, though

Correct, the former coach had me questioning some, too, it's part of being a MMQB.

[Jon Ham]

The thread title and poll question are opposites. The thread title should be the same as the poll question. I suspect many like myself failed to read the poll question and selected "no" by accident.

[CallThemHawgs!]

Really, BA hasn't made any progress over last year?  You sure your hatred isn't covering up the truth there? 

I have no hatred... dont make assumptions because of an expressed opinion

Sure, maybe BA has made some progress under Cheney. He still misses tons of passes, stares down WRs, and cannot make the big throw when needed.

There has been progress, how much? Thats debatable.

[onebadrubi]

I have no hatred... dont make assumptions because of an expressed opinion

Sure, maybe BA has made some progress under Cheney. He still misses tons of passes, stares down WRs, and cannot make the big throw when needed.

There has been progress, how much? Thats debatable.

To say BA has made no progress over last year is absurd and will get no one here to respect anything you say.  While it may not be winning us a national championship the young man has made huge strides over last year.

[Choctaw Hog]

i support him.

does make some questionable call, though

And if those "questionable" calls worked you and those like you would be singing his praise.  There's a reason Chaney is making a lot of money calling plays for a high-level Division 1 College and you aren't and if you are objective and try really, really hard you might swerve into the right answer. 

[Pigstie]

I was there and could have sworn we turned the ball over, had penalties that extended UGA drives, and had horrible special team play, all in first half. But I'll defer to experts.

I was there as well... And I'm no expert. I was sitting at the 40 yard line mid way up. I know this. We were out blocked, out hit, and out coached. We didn't just drop fumbles, they forced them and took them. Once GA started with the corner blitzes after the first drive we didn't have an answer. I think Chaney deserves another year, but it should include a QB coach.

[Harleigh Hog]

A lot of that was in garbage time, you know that. The game was well in hand by the half.

Still, you may have a point. I might be overreacting.

What's your take on all of the pitches this year in running situations? It seems to result in more fumbles. Is there an inherent advantage in our system with our personnel to these pitches that I am missing?

These are designed to get our running backs to the edge quicker. In theory it's a good idea to get a talented RB the ball with room to operate. The reality is that we have fumbled quite a bit executing this play.

I'm not sure what to think. I've been a junior high coach for ten years and mistakes like this are easily correctable providing you are not asking an athlete to do more than they are capable of doing. I can't believe this is the case, ANY any SEC caliber athlete should be able to toss a pitch and catch it on the run.  There is no danger of a rush due to the immediate execution of this play which makes me scratch my head on the high rate of fumbling.

[CallThemHawgs!]

To say BA has made no progress over last year is absurd and will get no one here to respect anything you say.  While it may not be winning us a national championship the young man has made huge strides over last year.

He has?

He was injured last season, that was everyone excuse. What about now?

I dont give a damn if you respect what I say. What I am saying is the truth. He has progressed, but how much, I dont know. Its clear that he is still not good enough to put the team on his back. And anytime the spotlight is on him, he chokes. Sorry, truth hurts.

[Horthawg]

Bielema praised the offense (save the turnovers) in the post game presser. Get comfortable with Chaney.

I am curious to see how he does with a different QB.

There is still some very frustrating moments though.

He said the right things, however, if they lose out or maybe one win, he'll be saying what a great pleasure it was having him and wish him well in the future,

[redeye]

Get over running the ball. If the run is being shutdown every play only Houston Nutt would keep running it expecting a different result.

What does it say when we're consistently leading while running the ball, and consistently losing while throwing it? 

I don't think our running game is getting shut down, unless you think getting stopped 2-3 times is equivalent to getting shut down.  Yesterday, Chaney switched to the passing game after we'd scored a TD by shoving the ball down Georgia's throat.

Most of Chaney's experience is with throwing the ball, so it's not surprising that he favors it.  But this team isn't built to throw and likely never will be.

Absolutely 100%

Not his fault the cows don't produce milk. Need better, milk producing cows.

So what you're saying is that even though we're built to run the ball and struggle throwing it, we should blame the players Bielema recruited to run the ball?

[hellwonthaveme]

Every playcall goes through Brets headset and every playcall is signed off by Bret. His words, not mine....

It isn't Jim Chaneys fault.

PRJ

[seasonhog]

I am absolutely a Bielema supporter. I like the recruiting. I like the overall philosophy of what he is building.

What he is building is a house of cards.

[10thPlanet]

Every playcall goes through Brets headset and every playcall is signed off by Bret. His words, not mine....

It isn't Jim Chaneys fault.

PRJ

This. They do talk during the week deciding TOGETHER what they think will work against the opposing teams, and personnel.

[hellwonthaveme]

To say BA has made no progress over last year is absurd and will get no one here to respect anything you say.  While it may not be winning us a national championship the young man has made huge strides over last year.

He hasn't. I bought in to the improvement hype when we were playing teams of lesser talent, including A&M but the truth is he is still the exact QB he was last year.

Still locks in one receiver, Still throws almost every pass, save the play action, a second late. Hell, Hatcher would have about 600 yards receiving if Brandon would throw him the ball when he is running downfield uncovered, which happens quite often.....Horrible footwork...on and on.

And the panic...When he hits the button, he curls up in the fetal position and looks for a place to die.....

He isn't cut out for the SEC...And Bret hitching his wagon to him is a bit problematic.

I mean when he starts BA next year, are you boys gonna rush to Brets defense and say well, Its Petrino's fault cuz he should have recruited Bret a QB, 4 years later?

I guarantee Y'all will

PRJ

[Demaghog]

Despite the losses, this team has actually played better than I thought they would this season. I doubt anyone was expecting more wins than where we are right now. It's only natural to expect wins after so many close games, but this team has too many holes to win games it shouldn't.

This year's recruiting class will be huge.

[popcornhog]

What he is building is a house of cards.

How so?

[popcornhog]

Every playcall goes through Brets headset and every playcall is signed off by Bret. His words, not mine....

It isn't Jim Chaneys fault.

PRJ

Sure. But the individual calls are still made by Chaney. Even if Bielema can/does overrule one from time to time.

[hellwonthaveme]

This. They do talk during the week deciding TOGETHER what they think will work against the opposing teams, and personnel.

You aren't going to convince them. These dudes set Chaney up to be the fall guy this year.....Before we even played our first game.

They will do what they can to defend their boy Bret....Every problem on this team lays at the feet of the HEAD COACH. He told us we would play disciplined, smart football at the very least. He said this 22 months ago when he was hired, and 22 months later, we are undisciplined, we play stupid, we get personal foul penalities, 50 yards away from where the play is taking place, we call stupid time outs because we cant line up correctly....We take points off the board for us with stupid decisions, We give opponents points on the boards with stupid decisions. It is horrible

And you guys defend this....its Depth, the system isn't totally in place yet...It takes 4 or 5 years to implement the full playbook....Are you friggin kidding me?

Tell me what year I can expect the tripping penalities, the chop blocks and the personal foul penalities 50 yards away from the action will stop? Tell me that? Did you get your talking points to tell us when the stupid play will stop?

And don't get me started on Collins fumble off the facemask...It was like watching a scene in a bad Horror movie.

PRJ

[seasonhog]

How so?

If you like a 5 to 8 win season team.........then maybe he is your man......his philosophy will not do any better then that. All the sec team have already figured out how to stop him.

Your hope is maybe he will see the light.

[hellwonthaveme]

Sure. But the individual calls are still made by Chaney. Even if Bielema can/does overrule one from time to time.

Let me say this slowly Popcorn...and this isn't to flame you because I like you and think you bring a lot of good things to this board.....but

Bret says EVERY PLAYCALL goes through his HEADSET. And BRET APPROVES EVERY PLAYCALL. That isn't from Time to Time. That is every play.....He approves every playcall.

That isn't Jim's fault....Its Bret's.

PRJ

[popcornhog]

These are designed to get our running backs to the edge quicker. In theory it's a good idea to get a talented RB the ball with room to operate. The reality is that we have fumbled quite a bit executing this play.

I'm not sure what to think. I've been a junior high coach for ten years and mistakes like this are easily correctable providing you are not asking an athlete to do more than they are capable of doing. I can't believe this is the case, ANY any SEC caliber athlete should be able to toss a pitch and catch it on the run.  There is no danger of a rush due to the immediate execution of this play which makes me scratch my head on the high rate of fumbling.

Thanks. I guess the parts that confuses me is that we keep doing it when it's resulting in so many problems.

What are your thoughts on the other problem that has been bothering me over the past few games? The insistence on vertical pass plays in the 2nd half.

Thanks again!

[HF#1]

So if you fire Chaney and the players still make dumb mistakes and fail to execute? 

Chaney isn't the problem. 

[mckinneyhog5]

Let me say this slowly Popcorn...and this isn't to flame you because I like you and think you bring a lot of good things to this board.....but

Bret says EVERY PLAYCALL goes through his HEADSET. And BRET APPROVES EVERY PLAYCALL. That isn't from Time to Time. That is every play.....He approves every playcall.

That isn't Jim's fault....Its Bret's.

PRJ

And coach BB takes responsibility for it.  Now what?

[hellwonthaveme]

And coach BB takes responsibility for it.  Now what?

NOW..tell these boys to get off Jim Chaneys ass....and maybe tell Bret to find a QB.

PRJ

[Großer Kriegschwein]

NOW..tell these boys to get off Jim Chaneys ass....and maybe tell Bret to find a QB.

PRJ

After this weekend and actually seeing open routes that are passed on in order to keep within Allens range, I have to agree.

But I'm not nearly as angry about it. Not a dig, just an observation.